Hello MF!

You should take a weekend in NYC! I went there once W---A---Y back in high school and had such a memorable time. You should go to Vegas--probably once would do you just fine. It's kind-of tacky when you get right down to it, but we have a grand time anyway.

My H shouldn't have too much spare time to kill while I'm gone. Between work, tending the girls, and his final school night, he shouldn't have time to get himself into much trouble. But I miss my girls terribly when I'm away--and maybe I'll even miss my H too. We'll have to see about that . . . .

And you'll have a nice break with your kids too, I'm sure. I love vacation days like that. They're the best.

Isn't it such an irony that being the "strong independent wife" seems to cut both ways? I always thought that was one of the qualities my H loved about me. He would come home and tell me about how his friends' wives were so needy and how that would drive him crazy--and how lucky he was.

But now I think that the male ego is much more fragile than I had imagined. I think that, while part of my H enjoyed the independence he had with a wife who was also independent, a larger part of him needs to be NEEDED. And he felt that I didn't NEED him--not financially, not emotionally. That explains some of the appeal of his OW--if there ever was a needy woman, it's her. Her life is a mess--she's almost 30, was only working as a waitress in her father's restaurant, and has 2 kids by 2 different men. And the OW in your situation sounds much the same way. A definate damsel in distress.

But I better get back to things. I must finish some work--and I feel a rotten cold coming on--yuck! I need to kick this thing before my trip next week.

Enjoy your evening and I'll talk to you later!

-C.

Hi csj and mama,
I hope you do not mind me popping in on your conversation. I just skimmed it a bit and wanted to give you two ladies a cyber hug (((((csj&mama))))))). I feel a kindred spirit with you two. Although I believe the EA started during my 3rd pregnancy, the PA part of it began when she was just 8wks old. I am now a mom of 4 young daughters and I had a remorseful husband and we worked our butts off to recover and I just feel so blessed now nearly 3 years later. You ought to be so proud of yourselves and the work you are doing to press on with hopefullness and not allow bitterness or self-righteousness get the better of you and stall or hinder your recovery process. You both sound a lot like me in my recovery. You are both on an excellent path and no doubt you will be successful and rewarded by your efforts.

Incidently, csj, I had always thought we'd have 4 kids, but after the affair I just thought there was no way that made sense. But about 16 months into recovery we talked about it and decided to go for it and we now have our fourth daughter which has blessed and completed us. I consider her our "love child" because our love is so much stronger and deeper than it was before the affair because of the hard work we put into recovery.

Csj I am glad you kept gently pressing the EN questionaire, that was an invaluable tool for us. Neither of us were meeting eachothers EN's in the right way for years. That was such an important insight into my husband and valuable for my part of the recovery process. To not get bogged down by the fact that HE was the problem, but to accept that the marriage itself should be better and I was part of that and had things I needed to work on myself as a wife.

Anyway, just wanted to chime in that I am proud of you ladies. Keep up the good work!
Glad

Gladtopresson,

Welcome ! Thanks for your words of encouragement. I read your post on Recovery and was really struck by it. It inspired me to see that there really is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, if we can just keep going. My H and I also talked about having 4 kids. In the ER for my last baby's delivery, I told him that I couldn't go through it again (more because of physical pain/no meds than emotional). However, after DDay, I don't think that I could put myself in the position of being pregnant again, although if it happened accidentally, I wouldn't do anything to change it. We have talked about a 4th baby after DDay and he said, if it's for us, maybe in a few years. I think that your baby really is a love child in all sense of the word. You must truly have had a beautiful recovery. I did read in your post what a long road it was for you. How long did your H's A last?

My H and I did the EN qt in Jan, and have not yet reviewed them w/ each other. Finally after bringing it up from time to time, I told him last night that we have gotten lazy in our recovery, and we need to do it. We need to get back to MB since we are not in MC. He agreed. So tonight I am getting them out and we are doing them. I have been afraid to push him on it, but he is realizing that it is a two way street. So now that he has agreed to move forward, I will do my part to keep up the pace. I am the one doing all the reading so will be the 'counselor'. We were living separate lives, taking each other for granted and not meeting ENs. I understand why it happened, but it is so hard to get past the hurt and pain, and not feeling special anymore. I do realize that i should have been a better wife,and am trying to right those wrongs every day.

Please pop in again...it really helps me to post and chat w/ people in my situation, and those that have made it through the storm...If you can do it, I feel like I have a chance too. Thanks for sharing...

CSJ,

I have never spent more than 2 nights away from my kids, and that was when I was in the hospital post-partum. I would miss them very much. We have never even taken an overnight trip away from them...I'm sure you will miss your H too. Would love to go to Vegas at least once.

Yes, the whole damsel in distress was my OW too. That's why you can try that soft approach to asking your H to go to ID with you may work, if you tell him how much you need him. I did the same thing. My H would always tell everyone what a great mother I was, and would always make such a big deal over me caring for the kids...And I also never put a leash on him or would complain if he wanted to go out w/out me... I always trusted him, never gave it a second thought.

Try to do the EN qts before your trip--get it out of the way and you will have something to think about while you're gone.

Oh well, it's 5:00 and time for me to go.
Will be here in the afternoon tomorrow.

Have a good night.

Hello everyone-

Yes, Glad, your insights are so inspiring for those of is that want to be where you are! How long was your H's A? Were you able to get to a point where he could talk about it with you?

Good idea on the doing the EN's thing before I go--that will give him some time to think on it, too.

I'm going to head home a little early today--feeling sick. Yuck. I hear the couch and a bottle of Nyquil calling my name.

Talk to you later!

-C.
Talk

C,

Hope you are feeling better. Get well before your trip,okay??

Glad,
I would also like to know if your H was able to truly discuss the A openly and honestly with you?

Have a good day ladies...not much else to say right now...

Whew--a nice long weekend does wonders. Feeling much better today.

We enjoyed a nice weekend with some long-needed sunshine. The kids spent all Saturday outside, and H joined in too, so that was a nice family time for us.

But Sunday I got about as ticked at him as I have been in a while. I rolled up my sleeves to make a nice Sunday dinner--even found a new recipe that I thought he might like (that would even leave enough left-overs for him to eat while I am gone on my Vegas trip). He was headed out to meet his guy-pals and asked when he should plan on dinner--I told him 4 pm.

4 pm rolls around and dinner is ready. The kids and I sit down to eat, figuring that he would be home any minute. The girls eat gobble up their fill, and they are ready to get back to play time. I finish my dinner all by myself, clean up the kitchen, and H comes waltzing in at 5 pm. I bit my tongue right in half not lashing into him, and choked back tears all evening. I felt so unappreciated and cast aside--all the old feelings from his A. Honestly--how could he?

He was all smiles but seemed a bit on edge under the surface--like he knew he might be in trouble. Finally as the night wore on, he talked about how his buddy had been having a really hard time with his teenage son, and he had stayed later than he planned to try and smooth things over. We talked a bit about this on-going problem with his friend and the son, and then as we were going to bed I gave him a kiss and said, "you know, it made me sad that you didn't come home for dinner, but that's nice you could help out your friend." I left it at that--just planting a seed, you know? Be considerate. Be thoughtful.

All on his own, he asked, "why were you sad?" So we talked about that for just a minute. He didn't apologize, but I think my little seed took root.

One small step for womankind.

Talk to you later,
-C.

Hey C,

I'm back at work after being on break/vacation all last week...Bumping this up as your last post was a week ago...sorry I wasn't here to reply, but I think you handled that little situation the right way. And I think your little seed took root too. No LBing, which is good. You told him how his actions made you feel, but that you appreciate him for helping out his friend...I know it took alot of effort, believe me, I have been there. Even last week I was in that same situation. I, however, was not as calm as you, but I did tell him, he could have called. Why didn't he call? He admitted that he should have...sometimes that's all it takes. We are learning how to respond to these things so that they don't become big things...

I hope you enjoyed Vegas...We had a good week. No A or MB talk. I needed to relax. I think we need to step it up though. Will try to do that this week.

Well, I'll be checking for you here...

Hope to talk to you later...

Hey M-

Welcome back from your vacation! I also really enjoyed the break. My gal-pal and I took in "Hairspray" complete with some of the original Broadway cast, and it was so enjoyable. Just one of those really peppy, feel-good shows. I am still humming a little bit to myself. We also saw a terrific collection of Reubens paintings and did some power-shopping. Things I love--and my H does not. But then again, any man who enjoys Broadway, art, and shopping is most likely gay.

I didn't say anything to my friend about the A--which seemed so strange in a way. She has been my closest confidant for 15 years--and now there is this huge part of my life that I just didn't mention. But I knew that she would never understand, having not gone through it herself. And I knew she would loose all respect for my H, and I somehow feel the need to protect him from that. And a part of me is still so ashamed--I don't want to admit what has happened. But why is that? Why do I still feel like this is, in some way, my fault? But, on the other hand, it was so nice not to have to even think about the whole mess for a few days. I almost felt normal again.

We've taken a little break from the MB discussions also--for the Easter weekend. It was a nice few days with the kids and my H's family. Now I need to focus on getting us back on track. I need to follow-up on my first little seed, and then plant another. He's been doing quite well with being the good father--which is one of my EN's. But another big one of mine is affection. When we dated he was so sweet--held my hand all the time, that sort of thing. Marriage brought all of that to a screeching halt. So I think a subtle reminder about showing affection is long overdue.

Plus--he has stalled again in filling out his EN's. I am still guessing at what his needs are, which is really irritating. I just don't get why he is being so stubborn about this.

But another plus from my girl trip is that we got hit on by a few guys (and one of them even seemed sober). It's been so long since anyone tried to pick me up, I was speechless! So there you go--I may be thirty-something. But I've still got it!

Got to go, talk to you later!
-C.

Hey C,

You go girl!! You've still got it. Make sure you tell your H that so he knows what a good woman he has...and yes, I agree with you on the shopping, art and Bway shows...if we want to go shopping, go w/ a friend, not your H. My H absolutely hates to shop. If he needs pants, we go to the store, he buys pants and leaves. There is no "oh let's see what they have in here"...:)

I understand why you didn't tell your friend about the A for all of the reasons you mentioned. I only told my out of state friend after 2 mos of dealing w/ it on my own. She got it out of me after numerous phone calls / emails she made to me and could tell something was wrong. I couldn't bring myself to - where and how to start, you know? She comforted me and stayed with me for a bit, but honestly I got more support on MB because she could not understand truly what I was going through. And after a couple weeks, she went back to her life. She was very supportive, though, and told me that whatever decision I made, to stay w/ him or not, she would stand by both of us (she has known my H for our whole relationship). She told our other close friend who lives in Chicago, because the Chicago friend was coming home to CT for Xmas. We got together one afternoon. It was VERY awkward. We weren't able to really talk because of the kids and relatives, but it was weird. She welcomed my H with open arms and she told me afterwards that he looked so stressed and truly so sorry. She had not seen him since the previous Xmas. She also has been supportive of staying in the M. I think that when you stay w/ your H, you need to protect him/ rebuild that wall that keeps other people out of your M. There was a wall between you during the A. now you need to tear that down and insulate your M from others. I have not told anyone else, and don't plan to.

We have had ups and downs and have to get back on track too. I still need to do the ENs with him. Let's try to get them to do that by the weekend, okay? Are you with me? Let's give them a deadline and see what they do. Affection is one of my ENs, and one that he also said I was not affectionate enough. I am really doing my best to be affectionate to him since DDay, but sometimes it seems like it is always me doing it. He felt rejected by me and then was afraid to approach me, so I guess I have to just keep it up so he won't be afraid to approach me...

Have a good night. Glad to catch up with you!

Okay M, I am with you. EN's by the weekend, no excuses. I brought it up with him, again, last night. I made a point to be light-hearted & joking about it, and he laughed, "I don't know HOW to do those--I don't know what makes me tick." I was happy to hear this answer, because it was what I thought all along, and proves to me that I really do know him pretty well.

Yet it was frustrating too, because I do not understand why he is willing to leave it at that. "I don't understand why this happened. Oh well." I don't know if my H specifically is just not very insightful about his personality, or if it is some WS syndrome--that they just want to move past it and not scratch below the surface if they aren't made to.

I am starting to think it's a WS thing. I think the self-examination is a bit painful, as it forces them to dissect something that they did that is very ugly. I don't think my H ever pictured himself as being capable of an A--and I know I didn't. So I do think I am grasping where he is coming from. But I don't think he has thought much at all about where I am coming from. And this bothers me.

And I am also getting a bit frustrated about the recovery process in general, after reading in that forum some more. So many threads there talk about how nearly impossible it is to get over the hurt. There is happiness, there is rebuilding, but there is always the damage. I wanted so much to get to a place where the A didn't matter any more, and now I wonder if that can ever truly happen. It makes me so . . . tired.

But I guess that disappointment is a part of even the best of marriages. The lesson I am supposed to be learning is to do what I can to make things better.

Back to work--I'll check back with you tomorrow!

-C.

Hi C,

Glad to hear that you are with me on the ENs. I didn't talk to H about it last night, as we had kind of a late night getting home. But will put on agenda for tonight.

My H gives me a lot of reasons why he did it. I don't think he thought he was capable of an A either. I keep reading how the WS changes their value system to justify the A, and I think that is right on the money. I also think that it is a WS thing to want to move on, to not really delve that deeply into what happened. I think they look at it at a very simple level==I made a mistake, I'm sorry, I wish I never did it, If I could change it I would, but I can't...They think, what more can I do? and they don't want to keep going over it again and again. I understand==if it were me, I would be ashamed to think of how I could have done this to my H...I would be so guiltridden and ashamed of myself that I wouldn't want to think about it. I think that's where they are at now...living with themselves is painful, especially when they now see that they had real love with their wives.

I also understand what you are saying about recovery being frustrating. You want to move past it but it is hard. I'm in the same place. Our DDays are only one month apart, and so similar in time...We will get there. This is what gets me through sometimes--When we have some good moments with the kids or each other--you know, it seems almost like old times--laughing or just enjoying each other. No thought of the A in the back of your mind. Even if it's just a few minutes...When this happens, then I know that I can get through it. That one day, maybe in a year, maybe in 6 mos, I will not think about the A every day. We are just too soon into this whole process to forget about it. And, yes, it will always be there...but I have read enough success stories of the people who have better Ms than they dreamed (like the woman that posted to us a few wks ago). This is what keeps me going. I want to be one of the success stories one day. And I don't want to harbor this resentment for years and years....

Keep working on yourself...I'm trying every day...I try to keep my perspective and treat him like I want to be treated, so that he will meet my ENs too....It will take time but we'll get there....

Hope you had a good night....talk to you later!

Hey MF-

I think the changed value system hits the nail on the head. I have thought that very thing several times--how else could he possibly have done it at all, much less done it for a year? And I'm sure it would be torture to live with that.

I really do try to look at the whole situation through his eyes--I don't want to fight about it and manipulate him with guilt. I know he is very sorry. I understand that discussing it twists the knife for him. But I think it is a little selfish of him to not try and look at things through my eyes, too. I have told him that my questions about his EN's are not attempts to hurt him--they are my attempt to understand and practice a bit of prevention for the future. It only seems logical that he would at least be a willing participant in this process. I shouldn't have to drag him. But I am anyway.

But I was trying to be a little more circumspect last night. I think there is a tough dose of reality to swallow in recovery--I need to accept that it likely will never be the same. I keep thinking that at some future point my H and I can walk away from this as if it never happened. But I can't erase it--I will always remember it--and that will always be painful. But there is forgiveness. And a year from now (or two . . . ) forgiveness will soften things. I read somewhere here that it's like the scar on a huge California Redwood tree. The evidence of the hurt will always be there, but the tree kept growing, and it is healthy. It is different than it was, but still beautiful.

I hope that it can be that way for both of us.

Have a good night--I will look forward to chatting tomorrow.

-C.

Hi C,

I agree with you--I will never forget it, but I hope that I can one day forgive. I'm not pushing myself to forgive right now. I think that I will be able to do it in the future, and that is a start. A few months ago, I wouldn't have been able to say that.

I also try to see it through his eyes. I think that when it started, it was exciting and new, but then he got trapped. I think he could not figure out how to get out of it easily. He told me that while he was in the A, he was more depressed, angry (at himself), guilty, and scared and ashamed. Always afraid I would find out. Afraid that the OW would tell me if he tried to break it off (he did try to back away several times. He admits he didn't do a good job of it because he was still having sex with her...Duh! Anyway, I think that he got trapped in a situation that he didn't know how to get out of. He never meant for me to find out any of it, so to carry that burden for so long was a heavy weight. I think that they have to justify it in their minds and change their value system in order to be able to live with themselves.

Last night, we were talking about one of my coworkers who is nice to me to my face, but talks about me behind my back (other coworkers have told me of the comments she made when I was late to work)...anyway, I am basically a nice person and do not like confrontation, so I chose to ignore it and make sure I'm on time so she has nothing to say. Anyway, my H said something mean about her, and our Son said, why did you say that? So H said, Your mommy is the nicest person that you will ever meet in the whole world. She is not just nice to us, she is nice to everybody. And this woman says mean things about Mommy sometimes, and that makes me mad"...
It really touched me because I was thinking about what we had talked about (changed value system, guilt, etc)...I thought, boy if this is what he thinks of me, he must feel so bad about how it could have done this to me...

The funny thing is that a couple months after DDay, I told him about the comments she made, and he got so mad that she would talk about me like that...That I was so nice and how could she treat me like this. At that time, all I could think of was, how could YOU treat me the way YOU did...I really think they can't handle going back and thinking about how they could have done it. I know that in my situation, my H hates OW now, and can't believe he was so stupid to get involved with her, for many reasons. She was not even a nice or responsible person, but I guess that was the attraction--escape from reality. In my case, he felt rejected by me, that I wasn't interested in him sexually anymore...so this was his justification for what he did. This was how he made himself believe that I just didn't care, didn't love him anymore. And I'm sure that the OW just played right into that. He said that she wrote him love letters and wanted him all to herself, so would give him tons of attention, etc.

As for the ENs, I haven't brought it up yet. I will tonight, as we have no plans after work so should have time. I have told him that my ENs were not being met while he was having his A, so I want us to do the Qtns for BOTH of us. I'm sure your H wants your M to be better, for something good to come out of this mess. If he does, then he should do this for YOU, as much as for him...to see what he can do to help you, and it is not talking about the A. Tell him that you need to do this to move forward (you may have told him this already)...

good luck and I'll talk to you tomorrow!!

Hi CSJ,

I hope you don't mind me joining in on yours and MamaFish's posts. I've been posting to MamaFish and Hoping For on another thread "Trust Issues" for quite a while. I feel I made good friends talking to them and I always feel good after venting.

We can all help each other out:

We're all the same - have been hurt beyond explanation. Thank goodness for this site….I needed to talk so many times and I had no one to talk to…..except for here.

Take care ...talk to you soon.

Hey girls
I just posted on "trust issues" too but I wanted to ask you all a question because it seems most of us have Hs who HATE the OW. Mine in particular was tormented by the fact that she lied to him telling him he was her 1st affair and he was the only one to make her feel that way blahblah blah. Bleck! Anyway he felt like she led him to put his marriage in jeapordy because of he lies says he never would have gotten involved with her had he known what type of person she was. Of course most respectable people sleep with married men with 4 kids 2 of which were 2 months old but whatever...not the brightest bulb. Because of this he grew guilty and remorseful and basically his entire personality changed.

Finally my question is how do you think they would feel if the OW ended up being a nice person. My OW is so not but Angelina Jolie is saving babies everytime you turn around she cant be all bad ya know? I wonder had he never felt she duped him would he have been ok with what he did? Would he EVER have confessed or would he been able to live with it. Maybe it would have been just a non event not worthy of even talking about since it had been gone so long? I wonder how many WS live with this secret forever. Just some thoughts.

Talk to you soon.
HF

Hi Hoping,

I just posted to you on "Trust Issues". Feel better!!!

Well, this was my husband's 1st affair - I'm almost certain of that. He fell for the OW because they worked together and they would talk.

My husband completely trusted the OW - he believed everything she said - thought I was against him - she totally convinced him of that. She would always be there for him - would never do anything to hurt him – would do anything in her power - would never argue with him, blah, blah, blah. Your wife doesn’t treat you like a man – you deserve to be treated better. When he came home – it was as if I was living with a stranger – he was mean, angry, uncaring, and disrespectful – for many months. He didn't know how to end it - he felt guilty and couldn't tell the OW he didn't love her and wanted to end it - so he just didn't do it.

Then when the affair ended - her true colors came out.

I often wonder if I wouldn't have broken up the affair - when would he have stopped it? How far would it have gone. If he got up enough nerve and did end it, would he tell me - probably not. What if the old bag got pregnant? He felt so guilty he would have kept up the affair till she would be harassing me - you know, calling at home, following him, making demands.

And yes, Hoping, what if she was attractive and a nice person - would that be the end of us? Well, lucky for me I guess that wasn't the case and my husband learned his lesson. You'll drive yourself crazy thinking all these thoughts. I always have a million things running thru my mind - I just keep them to myself or tell you guys.

Wow! CSJ, you have alot to read!! I hope you don't mind that I invited these ladies over here...I figure, the more the merrier. We can all learn from each other and support each other.

In answer to Hopingfor's question about what if the OW turned out to be a nice person, I have a couple comments:

In my sitch, the FOW flirted with my H for months prior to the actual PA. The first time he met her in the employee parking lot, she looked him up and down and said something like, boy would I like to have sex with you... Somehow, this is not the girl you bring home to meet your mother, if you know what I mean...Of course, he ate all of this up. It was after he got to know her, that he saw that the only redeeming quality she had was sex. He didn't talk to / with her as F&L's H did. He really had nothing else in common with her.

But anyway, I think that we are "lucky" that our Hs came out of the fog in time to see the FOWs for what they acually were. If the FOW turns out to be a nice person, this is when the FWS doesn't want to break up the A and won't commit to NC. Of course, this is not always the case. But I think that my H had no intention of me ever finding out about it. I can't torture myself and think "what if"...what if she got pregnant? What if he left us for her? You will drive yourself crazy if you do this. You have to just accept that he is committed to your M now and start to rebuild your trust and marriage....

Hope that helps, for what it's worth!
See you back here tomorrow ladies..

MF,

I don't dwell on this too much anymore either. It will drive you crazy. The only reason I mentioned the pregnant thing was because - after my husband's affair ended she was huffing and puffing around the office. I got scared thinking she was going to try and say she was pregnant and then say she had a miscarriage - just to get him back. I've heard of this done many times. She complains she doesn't have any money, but wants more kids?????

Yeah, she saw dollar signs when she met my husband. A house, good job and young handsome guy to come home to her every night. Wanted what I had and have now.

My husband really didn't have anything in common with the OW either, except they worked together. But she is all the things he hates in woman - drinks, smokes, curses, and no class. But, when the OW listen - they respond and enjoy every minute of it. Fall for it "hook, line and sinker"!

Hello ladies--and welcome! I am so grateful for this place--I feel like it has really given me a place to come and heal a bit. A place to discuss the things that I can't really bring up with my H.

The OW in my situation also proved to be a real doozy. I know that I have villified her to a certain degree--she is the figure I use to direct most of my anger. I told my H a few months ago that I wanted her to die--not through anything illegal of course--I actually am picturing her stepping in front of a bus or something like that. I also recall mentioning something about her burning in he//. . . . My H was in shocked silence, listening to me talk about how much I hate her. I think the whole conversation gave him a pretty good idea how angry I really was.

I know that in time, he will come to truly dislike her. But I don't think he's there yet. She was contacting friends of mine and having them give me messages--"warning" me that my H was still involved with her, etc. I told my H and he was furious. He actually contacted her (breaking the NC rule) to tell her never to contact me in any way. She gave him this song and dance about how the messages hadn't really come from her, and that someone else must be making up these stories. MY H BELIEVED HER!!!!! He told me "I really don't think she's the kind of person who would do that . . ." This despite that fact that the messages stopped right after he called her and told her to stop. I think my H's doesn't want to see her as the little tart that she is, because he doesn't want to think he is that stupid.

Speaking of stupid--I was thinking of how foolish the whole A was last night. My H and I went to his graduation banquet as he is finishing up his MPA degree. He has been attending a private church-owned school--and would have been kicked out had the administration been told about the A (which the OW actually tried to accomplish). I have been looking at the A as this completely selfish thing. But last night, I was thinking that selfish doesn't quite capture it. This degree has been a goal for my H for years--since before I even met him. His A took priority even over this personal goal that he has placed so much focus on--not to mention $20,000, time, energy, etc. So it's not as if me and the kids were the only ones he was setting aside. He was setting aside himself, too. And all for what? Because she stroked his ego, made him feel important, and that was more important than anything else--at least for a moment.

But I was also thinking how lucky we are--my H and I. Despite everything that has happened, there he was, with his classmates, celebrating that he had finished something so special. And, as it so happened, the banquet was held in the same building--even the same room--where we had held our wedding brunch. Almost 9 years later, there we were in the same place. A little bumped, a little bruised, but still together. Not a traditional, romantic story perhaps. But I love him still.

Talk to you all tomorrow!

-C.

Hello to All,

The important thing is that we are all here for each other, to do exactly what you have all written--vent a bit to each other when we can't vent to our Hs.

CSJ,

My H has lost alot because of his A, and not just how it affected me and the kids. Like your H, he risked EVERYTHING for the A...He had to resign his job, lost respect of coworkers and everyone where he worked (due to her gossiping about him). He has had to start over in that respect. We started to attend church in Dec. and he has started to attend a Men's Group there. He admitted to the Men's Group about his A (a few wks ago) and that we were in recovery. I was shocked when he did this, that he would make it public, but it also showed me that he is serious in his commitment to our M. I had asked him if he would go to MC with the pastor before he did this, and he had said no he didn't want to do that.

Anyway, like CSJ said, the A took precedence over everything in his life, including his job/career. I found out after that he and she would call out of work at the last minute, which cost them points on their attendance. This happened a few times. He was late to work on many occasions. They would talk on their cell phones all night long, risking a warning from their employer for not working. I think that the WS truly gets in the fog and cannot see what they have become. There is no other way to explain why a supposedly rational person would act this way.
This is why they have such a hard time dealing with it when the wives find out and they actually SEE the devastation they had caused, when they had convinced themselves that no one would be hurt, that it didn't mean anything.

CSJ, I'm glad for you and your H--I like that the celebration for the graduation was in the same place, like you have come full circle almost. You are still together after all this time, your love for each other has risen above it all.

Well, I have to get to work now. I didn't talk to H about ENs but will really try to get this done this weekend. I am trying to deal w/ some other issues right now but have to get this done.

Have a good weekend!