Everyone,


I guess this will be it for the nice weather - tomorrow is supposed to rain all day. I'm going to grab a bite to eat and I'm off. Talk to you guys later.

Hi F&L,

I'm sorry to hear about your interview, or lack of interview...that really stinks...I have to laugh because I can see that happening where I work. Our HR manager does what she pleases. we are supposed to put any appts/vacation time/etc in our company electronic calendar (Outlook) so people know when you are out. This is the HR policy, but of all the people in the company, she is the only one who does not do this. She will take a week off and not send a notice, you have to ask someone else to find out...So I could see her doing the same thing that was done to you...

Yes, it's supposed to rain here tomorrow also. I'm hoping it will hold off until after 5. My DS has his first soccer and tee ball practices starting at 3. they are back to back. This is the first time we are doing this, and looking at the schedules, I see where the term Soccer Mom comes from!!

I hope you have a nice visit with your Dad....and a good weekend!

Hi Ladies,

I was thinking about you guys.

Last year around this time, the weather was nice, flowers were popping up and we, as a family, were going to church every Sunday – it felt good. We all decided we should go regularly. I felt proud seeing my husband and two beautiful girls next to me sitting in the pews. Little did I know that in 3 months my world would come crashing down right in front of me.

I saw my life flash in front of me – it was over – everything I hoped for – everything I dreamed of – finished – a happy home – my children without a father – me being alone - in a couple of minutes. The love of my life snatched away. The next day I had my first axiety attack - I thought I was having a heart attack - I thought oh no, now I'm going to die on top of all this...please I don't want to die! I collapsed - my fingers and legs went numb - I couldn't breath - what was happening to me. Please, Please, no more!!!!Went to hospital - luckily, only an anxiety attack - several more to come.

Believe it or not, this is what I think of when I go to church – you don’t know how many times this enters my head – I know it shouldn’t – but it does.

I just don’t know what our husbands were thinking of when they had their flings. We worked so hard to get were we are now. I supported my husband in the beginning, just so he can go back to school and get his degree. I always believed in him, knew he would achieve his goals. Once he started getting ahead in his career - I always stood in the background – let his job come first. I always had to have the job that was flexible - so I can come home in case of an emergency/snow days, etc., for the kids. For you see, his jobs were always too important for him to leave. Thank goodness my employer was understanding of family matters. My husband kept advancing and I was happy for him.


You know, my husband is a well educated man, but like I always said, he has no common sense!

Well, that's enought venting for today.

So, girls, I had a lot of obsticles and once my husband left that stupid job/bimbo OW - we are doing ok. So, you all can too. Just have faith and be determined. Sometimes, in the beginning, you have to have enough love for the both of you. My husband may be stubborn and have no common sense, but I accept him the way he is - will always love him.

Hoping:You've got to try and forgive.....put things behind you. Your never going to forget....but keep them in the back of your mind. Listen, my husband still worked with the OW for 10 months and I survived .....you can too. Be happy!

Have a nice weekend ...all of you.

Hello everyone!

F&L-so sorry to hear about your dad's illness, and then your daughter. That is such a nightmare! I cannot even imagine what you must have been through. I truly hope that she is doing okay, and not blaming herself--especially after your H said those thoughtless things to her.

I have actually dealt with many sexual abuse cases as they went through the legal system. At time time, I was a Public Defender and was actually representing the perpetrator. SO HARD TO DO! But the whole experience I think is actually doing me some good now. I read some pretty terrible police reports--accusations of unspeakable things. And then I would go to court and have to talk to the people that did them. At first, I didn't think I could do it. But I found that, if I looked in their eyes (and sometimes said a little prayer), I could really see the humanity in just about anyone. In the seven years I worked as a defense attorney, I think I really learned to understand that there are good people that do terrible things. I learned to treat them with kindness, and to look past their actions, so that I could defend them.

Of course, it is much easier to do in the abstract. From a victim point of view, which is where I stand now, it is a much heavier burden. But I think the experiences I had with my previous job really helped me to look at my H, and still see the the good man that I know him to be. I will never really understand why this has happened, and I am resigned to the fact that I will always hurt from it. But I believe that I can forgive him. And I am starting to feel real love be restored.

Ultimately, I did quite my defense job, and I actually prosecute now. But only misdemeanor cases. I just couldn't handle the felony stuff anymore. Too emotional. Especially after I had my kids--it was just too personal for me. And I love prosecuting misdemeanors--give me 1000 dope tickets over a single sex offense any day!

But I hope you all have a good weekend, and I aim to as well. I am going to carve out some time--hopefully tonight--to have a good EN discussion with my H. But first, to the hospital because I just got the word my sister is having her first baby today!

My thoughts are with you all--thanks for the friendship!

-C.

CSJ,

Just a quick note for tonight. Advance congrats on the baby!
I told MamaFish and Hoping For that I could write a book on my life or make a tear jerker movie about my life. I’m a very determined person - I'm a tough little cookie - been broken several times though. I gave MamaFish and Hoping For a lot of hope.

Yes, all our guys are good, just were led astray - but then everyone is entitled to mistakes - that's what makes us human. My husband is working late again, but this time, I know he is really working! Thank Goodness.

Hi Everyone,

Boy, I'm almost couldn't find our thread! We all must be healing - not on the site day and night. That's a good sign.

The weekend was so rainy here. Just stayed indoors and rented videos. North Country excellent - it's about how badly women are treated in a man's company/world - a must see.My husband had some Corona beer and I had some wine - we both cuddled on the couch - good stuff!

MamaFish, guess your son didn't play soccer. He would have needed boots instead of cleets. My daughter has a softball game tomorrow - supposed to rain again???

I already got done cleaning the house and putting away the Easter stuff.

Got to go - got to turn off the computer - thunder and lightening here - this one was so big it shook the house.

Hope all is well with you ladies. Talk to you later.

Hello everyone--

I hope all had a nice weekend. It was such lovely weather, and the girls enjoyed a lot of outside time. My sister's little boy (7 lbs 6 oz) is simply adorable, so that was fun to see him. We also had all the relatives over to celebrate my youngest's 2nd b-day yesterday afternoon. She had such a wonderful time with her first present we had a hard time convincing her to open anything else. She is just the sweetest, most beautiful toddler, but it makes me sad that I don't have a baby anymore--she is growing up so quickly!

F&L--I am glad your daughter is going to focus her education on the criminal mind--if she figures it out, let me know! I saw such an awful cycle with abuse cases like that, most specifically with males. Almost all of the male offenders had been victims when they were kids. It just seems so illogical that a victim would turn into a perpetrator that way. But it seems like most of the defendants I represented had not reported their own abuse cases, and I wonder if that's what ultimately caused the problem. They grew up not really understanding that what happened to them was wrong, and that it wasn't their fault, and maybe they could never come to terms with it. Anyway, that could be a very rewarding profession for her--I hope that she is doing alright.

MF-you will be proud of me! I cornered my H last night about his EN's, and was finally able to get some answers out of him. He still hadn't written a thing on the questionairre, so I brought it to bed with me and just started asking him about the different needs, and what was important to him. He didn't rank them, but said that SF, an attractive spouse, honesty & openness, and domestic support were all things he felt to be important. I was a bit surprised that he didn't have admiration in there somewhere--because he really does soooo enjoy it when other women flirt with him, and he will often come home and tell me about it, just as pleased as he can possibly be. He never did mention to me when the OW started making her passes at him. He obviously sensed that I wouldn't find it amusing at all, and he didn't want me to tell him to stop. What was it about her flirtations that were so irresistable to him? I still can't figure out how it is that he got so far down the slippery slope.

I had a million comments running around in my head after he finally listed his EN's--but all of them were rather mean, so I figured I better keep quiet. I don't want to discourage him from talking to me about the affair by lashing out at him. But I was rather crushed, because in knowing what needs are important to him, I cannot help feeling a little like chopped liver. OW was filling his EN's for someone who was attractive and good in bed. While I was filling his needs for an honest spouse who cleaned his toilets. Was I ever attractive to him? Has he ever been fulfilled by me? I don't know and didn't know how to ask. OW looks nothing like me. As I've mentioned before (I think on this thread), she has ENORMOUS implants, to the point of actually looking a little ridiculous (in my opinion, anyway). I am a pretty petite person all-around, and just not a full-figured gal. I just feel so terribly inadequate--like he will never be pleased with me. And this is such a vicious cycle. My H tried a couple times to initiate SF and in my head, all I could think was "DON'T YOU TOUCH ME!" I didn't say anything--but he did get the idea and just went to sleep. Obviously I am not fulfilling him to not respond to him at all, but I am still hurting so much to think that he has rejected me physically.

I hate feeling this way.

But I know he is still trying. He devoted his whole Saturday to fixing up the playhouse for the girls, and told me about some other plans he has to spruce up the yard. And he was very sweet with the b-day party, complimenting me about all the work in making dinner for everyone, and making a cute "Elmo" cake for the party. It felt nice to be appreciated, anyway.

I hope you all have a good afternoon, and I'll check back later!

-C.

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Post deleted by MAMAFISH

Friends,

CSJ, you've dealt with the criminal mind, I know you've dealt with this before. Do women self-consciously seek out the same type of man that hurt them before - without realizing it? I never liked getting abused, whether it was physically or mentally, but yet, I set myself up for it. I keep thinking I can change them.

CSJ; Don't worry about the OW having big boobs. I'm petite like you, been the same since high school about 110 lbs. I'm a 34 C, attractive, very perky boobs, no wrinkles, look ten yrs. younger than I am. My husband's OW is younger than me, but looks 10 yrs older than me, wrinkles, andis down right ugly. So don't worry about boobs, or looks, doesn't make a difference.Believe me, looks, age, don’t matter, that's not what these guys are after. I have always had the dinner waiting for my husband when he gets home, I am the Lucy Ricardo, try to look good for him – but when they want to stray it just doesn’t matter what you look like, or what the OW looks like – they’ll do it.

I always considered myself to have a lot of common sense - but does that all disappear when you love someone?

MAMAFISH...The OW did the same thing to my hubby. When he ended the affair - she tried doing the same thing to get even. At first she tried to be nice to him – do the same things she used to – bring coffee in the morning, talk nice to him, etc.. But, my husband said, no contact other than business. She got angrier and angrier.

One thing you should understand even if the OW brings a civil suit against you, it is very hard to prove rape. The OW will be dragged thru the mud – she will not want that. She will look like the biggest tramp in your town.

Another word: A lot of woman claim pregnancy – this is the first act to draw the man back. Then the claim is that they either lost the baby due to miscarriage or they had an abortion. The next step if my husband wouldn’t have ended it would have been a pregnancy. That’s the ultimate guilt trap. Did your husband ever receive positive proof that she was pregnant?

When my husband got himself into all this mess, the fist thing he said was. “are you going to stand behind me – we have to stand together”. Then he needed me – can you believe that!

We’ll all get thru this!

MF-
I am so sorry you and your H have been through all of this! It must be very much like a nightmare. I represented many guys on rape cases that sounded quite similar. I was convinced that they were innocent (we used to call them cases of "buyers remorse" at my old office), and often wondered how the accused men coped with the stress of being charged with something like that.

My primary concern in these types of cases was how well it would play to a jury. The accusation itself can be so inflamatory, I was always worried a jury would just listen to the crying rape victim on the stand and want to convict.

But I think your H has many things going for him. First, the OW is not cooperating. There's nothing like an uncooperative victim to make a prosecutor want to dump a case. Second, your H's assault history sounds quite minor, and will probably not be admissible. (This will depend on the Rules of Evidence in CT--but I think those are relatively standard in many states. Typically, prior offenses aren't admissible, unless your H did something stupid like take the stand and claim that he had never been charged with a crime before. Then it could be used as evidence of his crediblity.) Third, much of the evidence you describe doesn't sound terribly consistent with a claim of rape. I would be interested to know what the results of her Code-R exam were. I am betting there is nothing there that is going to be very helpful to the prosecution. And the whole idea that a person could be forcibly raped and then just lie there and make no effort to escape while the rapist is asleep, just waiting to be raped again. That just doesn't ring true. And I think a jury packed with women would be very skeptical of a claim like that. I think most women imagine that they would try and get away if something like that happened to them.

Also, she has the potential to be a very poor witness. She has plenty of motivations to fabricate her story (jilted and vengeful female). That will play out poorly for her. I wonder what her history is--whether she has accused prior boyfriends of similar things. Particularly if her prior relationships were workplace affairs also. That is potentially admissible. There are lots of other behavioral things you can bring in also--her actions immediately following the alleged incident--did she act like someone who had been raped? Did she go in for counseling? That type of thing. It sounds like she started seeing another guy at the office right afterwards, so that doesn't necessarily sound like a rape victim to me.

If there is a minor assault charge that's also been filed, the believability of that allegation is going to be affected by whether or not the OW is thought to be credible on the rape allegation. Was there any physical evidence on that--bruising or anything? On a minor thing like that, there wouldn't necessarily be. If there is, that would hurt your H's case a bit because then at least a part of her story will sound like it's true. The conventional wisdom in a scenerio like that is that if there is a fight between a couple, it is the man's fault. And the jury might question why, if they had just had a big, physical altercation, why would they both want to jump in bed and have sex? The ATM card could hurt your H a bit also--although he has given a innocent-enough explanation for that.

I think, from what you've told me, your H's case sounds very defensible. My old office had a bit of a budget for an investigator, which was very helpful in cases like these. I found that women like this OW frequently talk a lot and can really dig a hole for themselves. If a statement she made which contradicted her rape story surfaced, that could be a real silver bullet. I'd bet that someone at your H's old office had heard her talk plenty. And ANYTHING contradictory--even if it's her describing the rape in a way that sounds different from the version that she gave the police--could be very helpful in making her sound like she couldn't get her story straight. "Victims" who make up stories typically have a difficult time with that.

How do you feel about your attorney? Do you have any hearings coming up right away? There is a lot of potential there, but it has got to be very stressful for both of you while everything shakes out. If it's helpful just know that most of the rape cases I had like this were dismissed without even going to trial, because the prosecution saw that things weren't coming together. It just was a waiting game to get to that point.

Let me know how things go . . .

-C.

MamaFish,

How'e everyone doing?

Okay--it took me a while to write that last post, and so now I've missed a few of yours!

I agree with you on the OW's abuse of the system. That bothered me also, whenever I saw a "revenge rape" case filed. It diminishes the true victims. Sadly, crying rape (or other types of sex abuse) seems to me to be a rather common way for women to manipulate. "Do what I want or I'll call the police and tell them that you groped me." There is a special kind of karma reserved for people who falsely accuse, in my opinion.

And it does make my heart break for your daughter, F&L. What she has lived through! And to be too afraid to come forward . . . . I can honestly say that I never went after a victim that I THOUGHT was telling the truth, but how can I know for sure? It nagged at me always when I cross-examined victims--hoping that I wasn't contributing to their hurt. I really believe in the criminal justice system, and I am firmly convinced that we need vigorous defense attorneys to keep the system in balance, and to protect the rights of all accused, whether they are guilty or innocent. But it was a tough job, to be sure. Victims in sex cases can get drug through the mud. That helps your husband, MF, because as the trial date approaches, the reality of the situation will hit home to the OW. The prosecutor can protect the victim to a certain extent--but never totally.

So if nothing else, the system does work to weed out the cases without merit. But it is at a high cost to true victims.

And I do see history repeat itself so frequently, F&L. Particularly now doing prosecution. I handle MANY domestic violence cases, as they are typically misdemeanor offenses. And it puzzles me somewhat, because you see the same women (as victims) over and over, either with the same husband or a different one. I cannot explain it--maybe if your daughter becomes a psychologist, she can enlighten us all! But my current theory is that it has much to do with self esteem. Frequently (not always) abused women saw this pattern in their own families (this does not sound like its true in your case, however--it sounds like your dad is a winner). These girls grow up thinking that it is normal to be abused and demeaned. And then they are told my their abusive partners that they are worthless, and they come to believe it, I suppose.

Watching the dynamics in relationships like those does make me feel grateful, despite my present situation. I have always thought that I deserved the very best--and until all of this thought that I had it. My H is basically a "tough guy" and isn't one to toss out compliments, but I felt loved. I felt attractive. I felt appreciated. So comparing myself to the OW feels like the twilight zone. My H has never made me feel this way before.

During the A, when he seemed so indifferent to me, I was wracking my brain trying to think what I could do to make him snap out of his depressed, morose mood. I brought up to him that I wanted a boob job. I have always been a bit self-conscious about being small--I am, sadly, an A, and always wanted to be at least average! And I thought he might enjoy the idea, too. He did perk up a bit, and said, "why don't you find out who OW's doctor was so you could get some like hers?" I thought the remark a bit thoughtless at the time--why would he bring up her specificially? But now it just haunts me. He was telling me that he wanted me to look like her--this woman that nearly destroyed my family. And now I feel like I can never have the cute, average boobs I hoped for, because how can I ever have surgery to make myself over to look like her?

I was trying to put all of this out of my mind, but when we talked about our EN's last night, it all rushed back. I must have had a strange look on my face, because he said, "What are you looking at?" "Oh nothing--just thinking." And then I shut up.

But going over the EN's needed to happen. So I guess it is a good thing, even though it hurts at the time.

So onward and upward! But now I've got to get back to work!

-C.

CSJ, MF,

I’m going to tell you again, don’t worry about the size of your boobs. That’s not why your husband went with the OW. My husband is the biggest boob man and he picked a woman with no boobs – she’s flat and saggy. I don’t know how you can be both –but she is. So if a woman has big boobs and is just plain stupid and is not a nice person – how long do you think a guy will be with her? You can’t live on boobs alone!

What a nerve your husband telling you to got to the OW’s doctor to have this done. If you want to have your breasts enlarged –do it for yourself – not for your husband. I’ve known people that had this done and some have complications – it’s painful and not a permanent thing – they will eventually have to be replaced.

MamaFish: Rape is a hard thing to prove. Even when there actually is a rape – it’s hard to prove. I don’t know if I told you this story:

A lot of OW threaten retaliation, sexual harassment, rape; threaten pregnancy, everything they can throw at you. But, everything has to be proven. If the OW has a reputation – they’ll make her seem like she’s the biggest tramp in New England. If she admits to the affair – she’ll look like she’s in the wrong. Like, CSJ said, if you get raped, don’t you try to get away, don’t you tell someone? Where’s the evidence of the rape. Did she go to the hospital to get a rape case? Where there pictures of it taken?

What information do you have on her – her past – the present? Is your lawyer finding out for you – if not you should do this. Go on the internet and find out everything you can about her. Do it yourself – don’t rely on other people. You can find out address, criminal records, marriage records, home ownership, anything you want and it’s legal.

The OW may think it’s easy to press charges – but to make them stick is another thing. You’ve got to be one step ahead of her.

Well, I’ve got to go. Good night all.

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MF,

I'm not a lawyer - so I can only speak from experience. Like I said before, rape is very hard to prove. The court system always makes the victim look like a piece of trash. they dig into her past relationships -her reputation. Unless, she has good proof that she was raped, i.e., bruises, witnesses, hospital abuse/rape reports, etc. - it's very hard for her to prove her case.

If you go to court and you admit that you knew of the affair and were making your marriage work -that's good for him - because it makes the OW seem like she is seeking revenge. Pregnancy issues really don't matter in my opinion - this happens - she chose to abort the pregnancy - no child involved - it was her chose.

So far as the newspapers - you can't do anything about that - they get their information somehow. As I told you my daughter's information was front page in our local paper - thank goodness her name wasn't mentioned - but everyone kind of figured out who it was. This can't be avoided.

Again, I am going to stress, do your detective work - don't rely on your attorney, or others. Get letters from co-workers, employer and people in the community indicating your husband's morals, standing in the community, values, etc. - this is important. Also, if you need to, go around and get people/co-workers to write a written witness report on what they saw and feel - her reputation - they do not have to appear in court. I know you can do this because I had to do it when I divorced my 1st husband - the witnesses testified that I had bumps and bruises -they didn't have to appear in court. Please help yourself out - don't be afraid to do detective work. Even if you have to do some things that are unconventional – do what you have to – it’s your life and your family. Find out things about her that can help your case – it can be done!

So far as making up after an argument or a misunderstanding - this is normal. When my husband and I have a fight -the makeup is usually very intense - not normal SF. I'm a petite person and sometimes when we have a very tense SF - I tend to bleed. Not because I was abused, but because of the pressure, the force. I have had this happen to me many times in my life - keep this in the back of your head - this is normal. When you have an argument, the normal thing is to makeup and in adults it's to have sex - plain and simple. Whether you’re married, single, or having an affair - it's the same.

You don't know how many times, after I found out about my husband's affair - after arguing and being hurt - the only way my husband knew for me to forget about everything was to take me and force me to make love to him - I didn't want to do it because I was so hurt - but I needed him - so I did anyway. Was this rape - of course not - I let him and deep inside I really wanted to. When you are upset there is nothing closer and more intimate than making love. THINK.........

Female judge mean nothing! The facts mean everything. People have affairs every day - this means nothing. Black and white - means nothing – what’s that got to do with anything. Judges see retaliation every day. It’s very hard to prove rape after you had an affair with someone – especially if you have a bad reputation – repeated offender of going out with men that you work with. Only thing is make sure your husband is telling you the truth - this is so important - you can't be surprised. When going to court - stand by his side - this is important - will make her look less credible. Your husband will need your support - he knows this - he will open up to you - my husband did this also. When the chips are down they come back to the person they know they can trust - YOU!

You’ll be ok.

MF--

It sounds like you are in good hands with your H's current attorney, and that can give you and your H at least some comfort. The director of my PD office was the same way. He was the best and is the first person I would want to help me if I was ever in trouble. Some PD offices get a bad reputation because they are terribly underfunded and the attorneys have more work then they could possibly manage. Plus, they don't pay enough to draw good attorneys. They are set up to perform malpractice on a daily basis. But some jurisdictions take a different approach and give PD offices the money they need, and it sounds like yours is one. They see a good PD office as an investment to avoid costly appeals. If your H's PD has been there 20 years and has a good reputation, then that speaks volumes. That situation can actually give your H an advantage over those who are spending top dollar on private attorneys, because the PD has spent 20 years developing a relationship with the prosecutors, where as private attorneys handle a variety of cases in many different courts, so they just don't develop the same history with the prosecutors. For an example, my old boss could get better treatment from prosecutors than any private attorney, because they knew him and trusted him. So that can really work for you.

I am curious about the blood evidence you mentioned. Where was it found? If it is just blood from the argument in the car, then that would not be nearly as serious, because you can explain that. If it is blood in her underwear, that could be trickier, because that is physical evidence that can be used to support her story.

But the bottom line is, this is a date rape story, and those are notoriously hard to prove. There is absolutely going to be physical evidence of sex--since both parties admit to the sex. It all boils down to the consent issue, and how do you really prove that? It's really tough. Some cases like these will have physical evidence of forced sex, but not very many. Since the OW was obviously sexually active before, the Code R exam can only look for tearing, but this is not always there, even with a genuine rape. Plus, consensual sex can have some tearing, depending on the circumstances.

And I wouldn't worry about the size and race issues much, either. The OW admits to an ongoing, consensual relationship with your H that was sexual. The fact that he can overwhelm her physically could have impact if this was a claim of a forcible rape, where the victim tried to fight off her attacker but couldn't. But the prosecutor doesn't have that here. And the race thing, again, didn't mean anything to OW before, so why should it now? I don't know the racial climate in your area, but with the facts of this case, I think that the black/white issue would only be a big deal in the South where there are still a lot of racial attitudes. In the NE, I am thinking he really should be alright.

And with the sex after the fight, I understand what what you mean. I think a lot of men really could see that as "make-up sex" even though the idea of sex after getting hit makes no sense. But men on the jury (if it ever goes that far) would get that.

As for your H's history, obviously your attorney will know the specific rules in your jurisdiction. But in Utah, that does not necessarily come in. If the prior was a felony, there is a greater chance that it will, but prior misdemeanors are very difficult to admit as evidence. There are lots of ins-and-outs, depending on specifically what type of charge it was, and how long ago, etc. Your H's attorney will know for sure. And the fact the he was cheating on you won't be received well at a trial, but the same goes for the OW. She will be viewed as a homewrecker, pure and simple. So that cuts both ways.

I would say, first of all, any digging on the OW you can do to help out the PD would be helpful. I had clients give me a lot of good stuff, and it helped because the investigator budget was not without limits. Don't have your H do this, though. He needs to just keep a very low profile so that nothing he says or does can ever come back to haunt him.

Also, keep your spirits up! Easier said than done, I know. But truthfully, I doubt very much that this case would ever really go to trial. 99% of cases don't. And this case has lots of strikes against it. Honestly--the fact she just laid there while your H slept makes no sense. Especially since they had a prior relationship--how scared can she really be of him? A normal woman who gets beat up and raped by her boyfriend would have scooted out and called the cops--no question.

And, of course, just keep waiting. Which makes things so much harder for the both of you. But it will also wear on the OW. If she's uncooperative now, just think how sick she will be of the whole thing next month, and the month after that . . .

Anyway, there are lots of reasons to have some confidence about this whole thing. The truth has a way of making itself known. I hope that I can help somehow--let me know. Your advice has helped me so much.

And thanks to both of you--MF and F&L--for your encouragement on my flat-chestedness (I don't think that's really a word, but oh well). As if our own little insecurities aren't already hard enough to live with . . . My feelings now are that I never want a boob job, if it means looking more like her. I want my H to love me for who I am. Maybe someday I will feel differently. But my H hasn't brought it up either, which tells me that he also recognizes that the whole idea was all wrapped up with his A. After I had initially brought it up, he would make little encouraging remarks about it, "when are you going to do it? . . . have you had your consultation yet? . . ." But ever since Dday, he's not said a word about it. I think he knows that it's not something that is on the table right now. Too bad for him.

Anway--I've been working on this post bit by bit for a while now, so I am going to post now and see what I've missed. I'll check back later!

-C

Post deleted by MAMAFISH

((((MAMAFISH))))
I feel so sorry for your situation. You have so much else on top of the A to deal with. I feel like I really know you well enough to say that I think you are a strong person and you will get through all this BS and be even stronger because of it.

The OW in your case really takes the cake. Unbelievable! I agree with csj (not that I know anything but Law and Order too) but it does not seem that with all the REAL crimes that are commited this would go to trial. I will pray for you that this is over soon.

CSJ I am so glad you are here for Mamafish. How fortunate that you know so much to help her in this situation. I wanted to tell you that during my Hs A he said so many hurtful things to me about my appearance. He even asked me if I would start wearing business suits (I am a SAHM)...would I be wearing them to the grocery store or the playground? I talked at length about this on "trust issues" but I have never been confident about my weight and he has NEVER cared. On our 1st year anniversary I told him I had put on a bunch of weight and he said "You did?". During the A he cared. He was always on me about my weight. I will never forget that because I have issues with it because of my dad. But to stop rambling about it...it was his issue not mine. As soon as the truth came out he never mentioned it again. He always tells me he loves the way I look. I think it was his insecurties about the way HE felt about himself. He needed me to be "perfect" to make him feel better. I hope that makes sense its so much clearer in my head. When and if you are ready for something like that it should be for you but I have a feeling you are ok with you and he is too just not himself.

Hopefully we will all grow from this BS and WS. What did I read here..its not the infidelity that defines you its how you deal with it and grow from it (very loosely translated).

Hope you all have a good night. Mama I will be thinking of you!
HF

MamaFish,

HAPPY BIRTHDAY AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like I said I'm not in law or in law enforcement., but like I said and CSJ did, you can get information on the OW, without tampering. This should be done by you, not your husband. I was talking about getting letters from people stating what a good guy your husband is, etc. Plus, you can find things out on the internet – you’d be surprised I know it costs a some money – but it is worth it. I wouldn't recommend you going to the OW's job - she might also press charges against you for harassment - that you're trying to get even with her.

What is the OW's alterative motive - does she want your husband to go to jail - does she want money - does she want him to be named as a sexual predator for the rest of his life? Do you know what she really wants? I really don't think she'd drop the charges - she wants to get even - she doesn't have anything to lose. If the evidence against her is so overwhelming - it may not go to trial - her lawyer may tell her this - they may want to make some kind of deal.

I'm sure your lawyer is doing all he can - but you can also help him if you can. Sometimes, they need help to - they just have so many things to handle. It's not like "Law and Order" on TV - that they go out and do all the work themselves - that's TV only. Incidentally, "Law and Order SVU" is my favorite. I watch all of them. Love Mariska Hargitay - she's a tough, and attractive.

CSJ: Keep giving us good advice - I'm taking notes!
Are you from Utah?

HopingFor: Hey, what's wrong with stay-at-home-moms!!! I worked so many years full time and now I stay home. If you're lucky enough to stay at home -that's great. I think everyone would love to be at home - but some can't. I know thru experience that it's much harder to work full time, then come home and try and do everything in 2-3 hours. It doesn't matter what you do, just be proud of yourself. There’s nothing wrong with a SAHM. Being a good mom and taking care of your family is the most important job in the world. You shape your children and support your husband, so he can work and that's the reason you can stay home - because of your support.

For years went I went to work - I always dressed up - had to because of my job. I never got out of that - most of the times when I go out - I do dress up - nice jeans, nice shirt or blouse and nice shoes - makes me feel good. When I don't dress up - I feel different. I've always been this way. You don't have to have a ton of money to dress nice - it's the way you put your things together. Just be the best you can – for you – do what makes you feel good and happy.

I too, got a lot of negative comments during my husband's affair – my husband kept telling me to work out - but when I found out who it was with - I was like, what????is he kidding - making comments about me???? If the OW and I stood next to each other - she could never compare to me. I think a lot of guys do comparing and making comments, when they cheat. Once they realize what the OW is really like, they stop.

Well, take care all. I've said enough. Another nice day today. I'm off to see my dad. Gave him a haircut the other day - he thinks he's so handsome now!!!