Hi everyone,

Hope you all had a good weekend. Mine was okay. My H is going through so much pain and anguish. He hates himself and everything he has become==he says he became everything that he never wanted to be...he is so sorry for all the pain he has caused me and said there is nothing he likes about himself.

Hopingfor, this may be how your H is feeling too. He can't bear to see the pain he has caused, and doesn't understand how I can love him still after all of this. He doesn't feel worthy of being loved right now. I told him that I still see the good in him, when he is with the kids, and that I still love him. He has told me over and over that if I left him, he would understand, that I have every right to leave him, but that is his biggest fear, that I will leave him.

Anyway I have ALOT of work to do and have to get to it. I hope you all had a nice weekend.

HF, get those books! Do a search on your library's website to order them if you can't buy them now. They really will help you in your day to day dealing with it all...I promise.

Will be back later !

Hi F&L,

You and I were posting at the same time...

I agree with what you said about teaching the kids English and everything else. Many people work hard and are legal immigrants. Everyone deserves a chance. Isn't it better to have children growing up and learning English in schools, instead of living here their whole lives and not learning English?

Anyway, I don't watch Desp. Housewives, although I would probably like it. I used to love Brad Pitt, until the whole thing w/ Angelina came out. He is still very handsome, but I don't like him anymore. That whole affair soured me on him for good. I can't stand to see the tabloids with them on the cover. I really feel for Jennifer Aniston in this situation.

But George Clooney has always been a favorite of mine...Who would be the actress??

MF,

Angelina falls for every married guy she does a movie with - she's typical - I hate to say. She's so spaced out - bi-sexual, kisses her brother on the lips, carried a vile of blood around her neck, used to cut herself up. I know she does things for the unfortunate, but she's too weird for me. They won't last anyway. Yes, I too felt sorry for Jennifer Aniston - her situation was out in the open - she was hounded relentlessly.

Hey, I could learn to act!!! Ha, Ha.

Have a great day all.

Hi F&L,

You are right about Angelina...I think they are on the rocks now...what a surprise, huh??!

I think you should propose this to one of the networks as a reality show. Then, you could play yourself, not too hard to do!

MF,

Hey that's a good idea. You know maybe you guys could all play the neighboring wives - kind of like a "Wysteria Lane" type situation - then we could get everyone in the picture. CSJ could be the top notch woman lawyer on the block, Hoping For could be the SAHM with the "young gardner" - you could be the working executive mom with the 2 jobs, at work and at home. I'm basing these characters on "Desperate Housewives".

You should watch "Desperate Housewives" - we love it.

COOL!

Hey, that sounds good to me...Maybe you could change the 'young gardener' to the young plumber---you know the one you always write about....:)

He'll bring the ratings up!!

Hi ladies,

I'm back again. Eating my lunch at my desk and checking in here.

I hope you are all having a good day. My H seems to be getting out of his depression a little bit. He sounded better on the phone just now than he did this morning. I told him that I couldn't imagine how much pain he must be in right now. I truly can't. Sadandconfused, I hope you can enlighten all of us on how you can do this to your spouse without considering the consequences of your actions. I know that my H regrets his A now, but at the time, he was living on the edge. I, like CSJ, wonder if he couldn't talk to me because he was guilty and afraid I would leave, or if he was just so in love/caught up with OW that he just left me on the sidelines. I know he says he didn't love her, but I know he had feelings for her, he has said so himself. I wonder if there is more than what he is letting on, because of how the A played out....Of course now he can't imagine being in love w/ her, but what about at the time it was going on...how do you keep an A going for 9 mos, a year, without there being something there besides just sex?

Well, just wanted to check in for a bit..will be back later.

Hey girls
I was just thinking about conequences today. You know that saying "its easier to ask for forgiveness than permission". I really feel this is my H. Remember a week or so ago when he wanted to go out and I didnt want him to go b/c I was upset. Well he went I cried...well sobbed. He said Ill make it up to you but thats the thing...some things you cant make up for you know.

That night he left is really telling of who he is for me. He had his A during the most difficult time in our lives. Kind of like when the going gets rough the rough leave. This has really been bothering me lately. He says I am so sorry for everything but is he if I ask him to stay home one night and he cant? Is this just a power struggle on my part? I really needed him and he left. Its a minor offense in the scheme of things its what it means. How am I ever going to forgive him for the BIG ONE if he keeps messing up with me? Ugh!

I agree with you Mama we have a lot to learna nd take from S&C I hope she writes back. I want to believe he was just caught up and honestly the sex part of the A doesnt bother me like ti did in the beginning its the lies and how little I meant to him that he could do such a thing. I want to believe it had nothing ot do with me but it doesnt make sense. I am so afraid I will never get over this!

Mama glad your H is feeling a little better.

Hey so the new celebrity scandal is Denise Richards stole her best friend Heather Locklears H Richie Sambora away. Thats bad!!! Theres another thread on here about a woman whose H cheated with ther best friend. Its a horrible story the 2 couple were best friends she loves her kids very very sad for everyone involved. I was thinking today how nice it would be to be 20 again and innocent of all this pain we would cause each other in our marriages.

Well hope you all have a great day!
HF

Hello everyone--

I had a long morning and am just checking in here, and you all are probably just checking out for the day. So I've already missed the Brad and Angelina discussion!

I used to love Brad also--I had a huge poster of him in his "Legends of the Fall" role in my single days-wow was he something in that? But I have also lost all respect for him. And for Angelina, too. I was thinking all of her humanitarian work was very selfless--and to be fair, I'm sure she does have some good qualities. She has done some very good things. But she is one messed-up lady. It won't take long for that relationship to loose its luster.

F&L--I had noted the immigrants issue in the news today, also, and thought how ironic it was that we had all been discussing it. It does irritate me that so much is done to cater to foreign language speakers. For example, I have to call the jail sometimes, and when the machine answers, it begins with this long, drawn out message in SPANISH. You have to listen to the whole thing, and then at the end, it says "to hear this message in English, press 1." What the . . . ? I think everyone should be treated with dignity, but we live in America, and when I call a government office and have to get stuck with a recording, at the very least it should be a recording in English. I do hope that there can be some sort of middle-ground with the whole immigration issue. I mean, I see the problem with the illegals. I have to admit, many of the drug charges (I imagine nation-wide, not just here) are against illegals who are importing heroin and methamphetamine. There is obviously a real problem. But not all illegals are like that--many are honestly seeking that "American Dream" that my grandparents were looking for. (Though as you point out, F&L, in this example, the immigrants came in legally.) I think it would be nice to grant amensty for some of these folks, who are hard-working and who have been here for a while, trying to contribute. Anyway, there's my soapbox for the day.

Does anyone watch "Grey's Anatomy?" I got hooked on it, and it even incorporates some MB principles in it, so I count it as therapy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I like that Meredith got dumped for the wife, even though she's the main character. I am glad that they depict a marriage, hurt by an A, trying to make it. And I like that they depict the WW as someone who is human, but likable--like my poor FWH. Last night I was just cheering when the FWW and the BH jumped into the shower for some hot SF. Go for it you guys!

My H and I are currently planning a road trip to New Mexico for about a week, so I am tryin to get geared up for some hot SF of my own. In one of the MB books, I think it was HN/HN, it was recommended to have some "everyday" sleepwear that was really attractive, since the whole "attractive spouse" and "SF" is such a big deal to the guys. So I think I may do a little internet shopping on Victoria's Secret or something, to find something new. I try so hard to get in the mood, but am just not. I start to cry, actually, when I even think about having SF. You guys are going to really dress me down for this, but we still haven't. My H has made overatures several times, and I just can't bring myself.

I have this really painful memory, towards the end of his A. I had tried so many things to light a spark with my H, but he seemed so distant. So I tried a trick from early in our M. We have a few decorative candles in our bedroom, and if one of us was in the mood, we would light them. At some point we stopped this little formality, I don't really remember when. But I lit the candles and changed into "something more comfortable" (that wasn't really that comfy at all, actually), and waited for him to come to bed. It was really late when he finally came down. He blew out the candles and went into the bathroom, closing the door without a word. I just started sobbing, I can't believe how much this hurt. And it all comes back to me, everytime he starts to try and initiate anything now. He held me in bed that night, just repeating "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." But I can't erase the pain of that night. But maybe if I buy myself a new nighty, and look at this trip as a second honeymoon or something, I can make myself "get back in the saddle." I hope so.

Anyway, I hope you all had a good weeked. Ours was nice--spent a lot of time at the park with the girls. We went down the "scary" slide about 100 times. No matter how tricky life becomes, my kids save me.

I will check back with you all later!

-C.

CSJ-
When you say havent yet do you mean since dday?

Hey HF--

I think we were posting at the same time. I did see the Heather/Denise thing, and it made me feel so sad. Denise just had their 2d child, too! And Heather is every man's "dream woman" isn't she? I guess that just shows all of us that an A doesn't necessarily have anything to do with looks, or common sense.

The thing about your H taking off that evening when you needed him sounded soooo similar to something that my H did for me, not long after D-Day. He got some wild idea that he wanted to go see "Brokeback Mountain"--I think mostly because it was rather contraversial out here (a "gay" love affair--and this is a very conservative community) and a few theaters wouldn't show it. He started out trying to get a group of his guy friends to go see it together, and they wouldn't hear of it (a group of men together, seeing a movie about gay men . . .honestly), so then he decided to go by himself. He half-way invited me at one point, but I told him I had absolutely no interest in seeing it because it was about an ADULTEROUS AFFAIR and I couldn't handle seeing that. So he went by himself, and even left early enough to go out to eat dinner by himself. I was furious--he had zero trust with me anyway, and it was just so insensitive to leave me at home with the kids while he went out to do what he wanted--just like he did the whole time he was cheating on me. But I didn't LB or anything--I just told him (with a few tears in my eyes) "Okay, you go--but you owe me a lot of date nights--you know?" He acknowledged that he did, and left.

After that night, he made a complete 180 turn in his efforts to rebuild the M. I think, up until then, he was just refusing to admit to himself that he had caused so much damage. He'd had a whole year to be totally selfish, and why should he stop now? But something about totally abandoning me that night, I think made him realize how far he had gone from being the "good guy."

Maybe your H is still in that very selfish place. He needs something to make him recognize that this behavior continues to hurt you. Is there some, gentle way you could bring this up with him? I like the way that ARK spoke of this in her post about "Betrayed Spouses . . . Be Still." She talked about "planting a seed" with our WH's--some well-placed words that cause our H's to think, and then nurturing those seeds so that they grow. Maybe you could tell him that you understand that he feels "condemned" when you bring up issues about the A--but that when he disregards your feelings, it is a terrible trigger for you, because that is how you felt during the A.

I really think that allowing yourself to participate in an A puts you in a terrible, altered state of mind. They have been so selfish, that it is hard to get out of those habits. I think that reading SAA would be very good for him, because it would help him to see things from your point of view, and to recognize some steps he can take to start working on recovery. He really needs to grasp that concept--for your sake.

God bless,
-C.

HF--

You beat me posting again!

Yes--since before DDay was the last time.

csj
I guess great minds post at the same time!

First I dont have any advise for you about the SF except to just do it. I can tell you my story that when I first found out I thought I would never let him touch me again ever! That lasted 2 days...I was really playing hard to get huh? I think that for me it was almost a relief see I thought that he and I were just growing apart when the truth was it was his guilt and fear of losing methat prevented us from remaining close. Now 4 months later we have the sex life of newlyweds. It makes me feel closer to him and wanted and needed.

Thats not to say that there have not been times during that my mind has wandered to what he did with her but I push that out of my head as quickly as I can. There was a time period maybe 2 months from dday where every time it was over I would cry and I dont really know why. 6 months is a long time. Why have you not done it? Do you feel disgust? Sadness? Fear? Need to punish him (big for me)? Maybe if you figure out what it is thats holding you back it will be easier for everyone to giveyou advise.

I wish you the best with this I think it will help in your recovery in feeling close to your H. Maybe you should do something for yourself go get your hair and makeup done naild too and stop at Victorias Secret and just feel good about yourself that always helps me.

Secondly on my situation. My H has always been selfish a good good man but very self centered. His mommy always told him he was special you know. Always gets the best of everything. I will be home with an on sale lean cuisine while he is out at the best steak house in town. Not to say that he doesnt include me in his fun but he takes care of himself and usually first.

I am so afraid that with what he did leaving me that night it proves that he has not learned anything and will go back to his old ways. I wonder if presented with the same situation again with someone falling all over him would he make the right decision for us or himself. He is sorry and disgusted by what he did to us and me. But he is also sorry for leaving the other night when he knew I was upset. I just feel like there are no consequnces for him so he keeps doing his thing. He says I am giving him no wiggle room to make any kind of mistake.

We were watching the Sopranos last night (again) and I said I am alll set with this episode (Tony cheating on Carmela again) and he said well Carmela takes it and I thought well what did I do? I didnt kick him out he has been having more and better sex than we have had for years so he need s to listen to me cry and he has to talk about IT which he hates to do but he leaves and works all day goes out travels its out of his head now.

I guess what bothers me the most is that he knows when he is doing something hurtful or wrong and he does it anyway.

Hope this post makes sense I feel lkie I have been all over the place! Hope veryone had a good night!
HF

Hi Everybody,

Just a couple of things:

MF....My husband says the same thing that he wasn't in love or involved with the OW - but on the other hand he says he would never just be with a woman for sex. He was going over her house and talking to her kids - looking and giving advice to the youngest on he report card - while his daughter's stood on the counter for several days before I told him - shouldn't you look at your daughter's report card? They all had to be involved emotionally to some degree with the OW or they wouldn't go to such lengths to be with them. I think they're just saying this to spare our feelings - yeah! - like it makes us feel any better!

Hoping For: My husband was the same way in the beginning, even for several months after D-Day. He still acted like he didn't care about my feelings - the A was over - why was I acting so emotional? He thought once it was over - I should just go back to normal and stop carrying on about it. He would try to be nice on one hand - then act like he had no regard for hurting me so, on the other hand. For the life of him - he just couldn't understand why I couldn't get over it. He thought I was being dramatic, standing on the "soap box" and whining. So, you see I think they are all the same. But, it will get better - they will come to their senses at some point. Keep you chin up.

CSJ: I watched "Gey's Anatomy" when the nurse had her hands on the bomb inside the guys body - haven't watched is since. My husband watches it sometime - he says everyone is going out with everyone on the show - sounds like where he used to work. What's in New Mexico? It's great you guys are getting away - that will be good for the two of you. I understand what you're saying about them not doing things while they were having their affairs.

When my husband was doing his "thing" I would sit and watch TV and he would sit on the other couch. He would bring a pile of papers and shuffle them around - or read his career books, making like he was doing work. I would get tired and say I'm going to bed - he would say I'm just wrapping things up - I'll be to bed in a little while. I knew all he was doing was avoiding me. He would come to bed and just go to sleep.

Sometimes he would stay in his office for most of the night - also shuffling papers around and say the same thing. When he wasn't shuffling papers, he would start an argument with me, on something stupid, so he would be mad and still not come to bed at the same time as me. He would deliberately avoid me. This went on for months - I didn't know what the heck was happening.

I hope Sad and Confused comes on here also. I'd love to know what makes these people tick. Do you think we scared her off? I may have sounded a little angry???? Didn't really mean to.

I know you ladies find it hard to watch movies that have adultery in it - I was the same way in the beginning. I just couldn't watch them - made me remember and get hurt and angry. This will pass in time.

I don't know if you guys ever watched the movie "Unfaithful" with Diane Lane, Richard Gere and this cute Spanish actor. An excellent movie - very intense! Diane Lane has the affair. We watch this way before D-Day. I wonder if he got some tips from the movie - now that I think of it - hmmmmm. Believe it or not, my husband watched a lot of "Lifetime" movies on tv - they're always cheating on those movies. He was always watching them right around the time he was doing his "thing". I would ask, "why are you always watching those silly movies on Lifetime - all they do is cheat on each other?" After D-Day, I realized why he was watching them. I hated watching that channel because I knew he got some tips from watching them.

Hi ladies,

Wow, I am just catching up on all the posts...No time to repond right now...will have to do it offline and copy it on here later...

Hope you are all having a good day!

Mama

Hi girls
Yes I heard today that Denise Richards says Heather was dating David Spade before the break up. I dont understand that hes..well...not my type but the girls LOVE him!

Just had a talk with H about my inability/refusal to move on. He thinks I am making us both suffer for no reason. Cracks me up b/c we suffered for years because ofhis guilt. I dont know I am so sick of talking about the A. I askedhim if he would have done 2 weeks ago differently now that he knows how much it hurt me. He said yes then probably said he was burnt out and needed to get away. I may cry alot but I stick things out. I would never walk away if he needed me but I guess we are more diffent thatn I thought we were. Doesnt make him bad just differnt I guess.

Hope all is well!
HF

Hi ladies,

David Spade,huh? Okay, he's funny but not my type either. I'd take Bon Jovi over Richie Sambora any day also. He is a cutie...now that I read that he is a faithful Husband, I like him even more!

Brad Pitt in the Legend of the Falls (Tristan)--yes, he was at his prime then...good movie!

HF, I think this is a guy thing. I'm going through the same thing with my H, and have for years. His A was all about escaping from reality--the kids, the bills, the stress, the chores. He says it was stress at work, stress at home...then it became stress w/ OW so he had no peace. He can't take it...that is obvious. But he feels like he can up and go out whenever he wants, without consideration for me. So I know what you are going through. I guess I take it all upon myself and am so ingrained into doing it all (housework, childcare, etc) that he has gotten used to not being held responsible for it. Thus, he is free to go.
He feels like I have it all under control so I don't need him. But I need him/want him to "help" with running the house and the kids.

more later.

Mama
I am ordering my books and was wondering do you think I should order HN/HN for parents or the regular one? I am ordering SAA too. Thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
HF

Hi,


Like I told you guys before, things get shifted around to be our fault. We are not recovering because we can't forget about their affairs - we are the ones making the marriage suffer - we are the ones that can't get over it - they have. All they're doing is making believe it didn't happen. When we tell them we are still hurt, can't still understand why they act like they do/did - how sometimes they just think of themselves - we get accused of not moving on.

MF.....I did the same for years - did everything by myself - worked, household chores, taking care of the kids, yardwork, everything I could think of.....so my husband would think I was the best wife. Maybe if I would have treated him like crap - he would have appreciated me more. I'm always telling him I need help - he just ignores what I say and says, Yes, Yes, Yes wife - figures I'll eventually do it by myself anyway. He also thinks I have everything under control - so why bother?

Oh well, talk to you girls later,

Hello ladies!

Jon Bon Jovi!!!!!! How lucky are you, F&L? I love him more now than I did in High School. I think he is the most adorable thing ever. Why can't I have any brushes with fame like that? I met James Earl Jones once and got his autograph, does that count? And Steve Young (former QB for the San Fran 49ers) was in law school with me--sat just a few chairs over, and we talked a few times. Nice guy, although I'm sure he would never remember me. He played FB during the season, and would just go to classes winter semester when the season was finished, so it took him 6 years to finish!

HF--I think what's been holding me back from the SF thing is purely emotional. It's actually been much longer than 6 months--during my H's year-long A we had SF 2 times!!!!!! I was just crazy/worried about it and could never get a straight answer about the problem. I had gently suggested a few times he see a doctor, thinking it was an ED problem. But then to discover it was an A . . . On of Dr. Harley's articles on thes site mentioned that many man "find themselves unable to have sex with their spouse during and Affair." But didn't really elaborate on why. That's why I asked S&C about whether she avoided her spouse during her A. I don't know if he shut me out due to guilt, or if he was so infatuated with her that he viewed sex with me as "cheating" on her. I torture myself with that thought sometimes.

And my mind goes right back to that experience I described to you whenever my H makes overatures now. I just feel frozen inside. I think, somehow, I am trying to protect myself--that if I never am intimate with him again, he can't hurt me again.

But I know I need to move on somehow, so I am really hoping this trip can be like a second honeymoon, and we can get a fresh start of sorts. We had always talked of spending a little time in Durango, CO (it is supposed to be very scenic there), so we are driving there first, and then on to Santa Fe for a few days of sightseeing, and then on to Los Cruces NM, where my H's brother, wife, and kids live. We'll visit with them for a few days and then drive home. My H is so proud of himself that he planned the whole thing with no prompting. He showed me the internet sights for the hotels to show me how elegant they were--he's really trying to impress me. You'd almost think we were dating again!

Anyhow--I've got a meeting and must go. I'll check back later!

-C.