Afternoon everyone!

I can't believe I'm the first one posting today! That is a first, I think.

Welcome back from your trip, HF. Glad to hear that you had a good time. You'll have to give all of your Florida favorites for those of us who haven't been (we are going in November)! And yes, my groove is officially back. I sort-of feel like it's my Honeymoon again! And it is interesting to see the connection between SF and verbal communication. There really is such a cycle with those 2 things, just like Dr. Harley describes, and I am amazed that I didn't put that together before. We've been talking a lot lately--not about anything in particular, just talking. But communication is up there for me as far as EN's goes, so that is meaningful to me. And it does make me think, "oh yeah, that's why I fell in love with you!" During his A, I got so used to him being this sullen, moody hermit--I almost forgot that he can really be charming. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But I've been meaning to ask you something, HF, and maybe your H's affair is long enough ago that you don't know the answer to this. But from your bio, it looks like his A coincided with the birth of your twins. Do you think the baby thing was part of why it happened? My H started his A just months after DD2 was born, I keep wondering how much of that was a factor for him. I'm sure at least part of it was, because SF is really impacted by having a new baby. But I wonder if it was more than that. Was he stressed by having a bigger family and more responsibilities? Was he seeing his wife and kids as a big ball & chain? And the baby/affair connection seems to be rather common, judging by the posts I see on these boards. You, me, and MF all have that in common just on this little thread! So anyway, I was wondering if you had any thoughts about that . . .

I'll check back later to see if anyone has popped in here!

-C.

CSJ
Oh I have lots of thoughts about that. I have written about this many times so forgive me for repeating myself but 2 months prior to me getting pregnant with the twins I had a miscarriage and was a big emotional mess from it. Then I got pregnant and of course with twins everything is twice as hard morning sickness, tiredness in the beginning, spotting and pain in the middle and big big purple itchy stomach at the end.

So totaling that up I get almost a year and a half of almost no sex. We have always been a very sexual close touchy couple and I was completely wrapped up in my grief from the misscarriage and then the excitement and nervousness of a twin pregnancy. It was truly all about me. He started this flirtatious relationship with her that summer I was pregnant and that was when we had to stop having sex all together becvause of the spotting. I think the lack of sex made him feel neglected plus he was taught that men dont do anything and he was overwhelmed that he was resposible for laundy and dinner etc while I was on bed rest.

He has told me some of the reasons he thinks he didi it was that he missed what we had. He always felt special with me and he wasnt getting that anymore. He needed to feel like a man and she was putting it out there and he was flattered since he was just a work horse at home. He called it an escape from reality and said he never wanted to be with her except that it felt good and fun to be wanted.

I dont think it was the stress long term of the family it was just him not getting what he needed at that time and there was no light at the end of the tunnel as when his affair started we had 2 babies up all night and were working in shifts. You know the drill just get through the day.

There are so many things that I understand and make me want to forgive him. Like when he planned that surprise getaway for us in the middle of the A for our 10th anniversary. Makes me think he didnt care about her only me and that he was just crying out for me. I remember telling my friend he should carry around a sign that said "love me" because I knew he felt neglected but what could I do really? I dont really blame myself for the timing here I just could do everything. Maybe I could have talked with him more about his feelings but I was so wrapped up.

Another thing that gets me is that he said he cried (not a big crier) the way home from the airport after the first time he slept with her and all he wanted to do was see my face so he would know I didnt know.

But then I think why did he go back several months later. Why did he continue talking to her? He called her from his mothers funeral while I was there. How could he have been so deceptive? Do I really know him at all?

This all just sucks so bad every day. Big sigh....Well I guess you opened up a big bag of worms huh?

Where is MamaFish I am worried about her?!?!??

Hope everyone else is ok!
HF

Hoping For,

I know what you went thru with the miscarriages - I had 2 of them before my youngest daughter. I was traumatized - my husband didn't even seem impacted. I was lucky thought that he didn't wander at that point. I too, was so careful during the 3rd pregnancy with him, didn't want anything to go wrong. Believe it or not, my doctor told me to have SF towards the end of the pregnancy to induce labor - I carried very low and had a difficult time in my 9th month - I dilated in my 8th month and had labor pains every day for the last month. My youngest daughter is my miracle baby! Only women can understand the trauma of a miscarriage!

I think when men can't handle the realities of life's ups and downs, can't handle it - they want to escape - to their fantasy life - that's when they cheat. They go into this no responsibility mode. I've heard about this over and over again. When there's stress at home - they want to escape - thus, they have an affair - an escape from reality.

We get left with all the stress, work and whatever comes along. I had the same thing. I was caring for my sick dad, my daughter had her trauma, work at home, paying bills, life's realities - my husband couldn't handle it - so he had the affair - to escape. So while you're handling all this stuff - they think you are ignoring them - not giving them the emotional support. Little do they know they are doing that to you?

It gets me so mad when these guys complain they didn't get the "lovin" they needed. What are you ladies doing - having their children? Please, stop blaming yourself and saying I should have paid more attention to them - gave them more SF. There is no excuse for what they did!!! I waited on my husband hand-and-foot, gave him the SF he needed, but he still cheated. If they are going to cheat - they will, no matter what. I think these guys get to a certain point and say - hey, I have to prove that I'm still a man - then they try to justify their actions - by saying YOU didn't support their physical or emotional needs. THAT'S BALONEY!!!

Also, a lot of these guys get bonded, or get emotionally attached to these OW - just like they don't want to hurt you - they don't want to hurt these OW. They just don't know how to break it off - so they get deeper into the relationship without even realizing it. By the time they or you break it off - you are hurt beyond words and most of the time the OW is also hurt or totally vengeful.

Glad to see that you had a good time in FLA though....that means you're getting further into recovery. It will get better, as time goes on. I had a good weekend.

Tomorrow is D-Day for me.....6/6/06.....I already had a bad dream about his........

I've talked to MamaFish is going thru a lot of stuff and very busy....but she is hangin in there.

Hi Everyone,

I'm here...but just for a minute. I caught up on everyone's post and even typed up a nice long one for you guys, but I lost it when I hit Continue...

Dont' have time now to redo it but will tomorrow.

Thanks for keeping us in your prayers, it's good to know that you are thinking of me...

Have a good night all,
Mamafish

F&L
It goes back to how we raise our boys and I think of that often. You are a product of who made you and my H is a good man who was pampered and waited on and taught that it was all about him. As much as he wants to change and do the right thing all the time it will always be instilled him.

I have told him as weak as I may appear to be I am stronger than he has ever been. I would never let anything destroy this family. In the end I will carry us. Remember the end of Fatal Attraction? Who kills the crazy OW in the end? The WH fails and the W kills her. I know I am stronger than I appear. I have carried us for a long time all through his mid life crisis and the guilt that almost destroyed us I will do it again.

It a mother thing I am sure but I am so disappointed in him. I know its not my place but I jsut am. I thought he was someone else. As strong as me and willing to do anything for the family and me but the truth is he looks to please himself much more than me or us. He cant even be patient with me every time I break down as I work thru this grief I feel. He says "I vcant take it its all the time" and I think what do you think its like for me? At least you get to live in your own head not mine! He goes to work and doesnt think about it...smiles when he drives byt hte church where we were married while I cry thinking of all the broken vows and lost chances the innocence gone. Poor him his wife is such a bummer.

I dont blame myself. I really dont he had every opportunity to say honey I am freaking out or no get away from me you skanky s*&^. In the end he chose himself not her over me and that breaks my heart.

6/6/06 is a freaky freaky dday anniversary for sure! I am sure all will be well.

If you talk to Mama tell her I said hi and am thinkingof her.
talk with you all soon
HF

Mama
we were posting at the same time. So glad to hear from you will check back tomorrow to see how you are. Dont you hate when you lose the post!!! ARG!!!
Have a good night!
HF

F&L-

Oh yes--I was thinking about your one-year anniversary over the weekend. I can imagine that it will be a very stressful day, on your mind constantly, thinking "this time last year he was . . . while I was . . ." But what a relief to get it over, you know! To have that awful milestone done--and be able to say that you have survived a year and look back at the progress that's been made. 6/6/06 will stink--but maybe 6/7/06 will be a really wonderful day! I hope that for you. And your H can think all day tomorrow "6-6-6- is the number of the beast--I am the beast!!!!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Let him think about that for a while!

And I think about the SF thing after DD2 was born often, wondering if there was something I could have done that would have altered the course of history. What if . . . But really, what was I supposed to do? I had a brand new baby who slept for only 1 1/2 hours at a time--and would eat for almost an hour when she woke up! So, do the math--I was sleeping for about 30 min at a time and was a walking zombie. Maybe I wasn't exactly Martha Stewart, filling his need for Domestic Support right then, and maybe I wasn't a real sex kitten, but what could I have done more for him when I could barely maintain for myself?????? And then I went back to work after 8 weeks, and was pretty much burning the candle at both ends at that point. It still really p1sses me off, frankly, to think about the whole thing. He feels a bit neglected and decides to flush all of our years together down the toilet!

The bottom line is I still just don't get it. I know that Dr. Harley says that under the wrong conditions, an A can happen to anyone. But I have to say that I really don't see me doing what he did.

Good to see you back with us, MF! Will look forward to hearing more from you later!

Anyhow, back to work I go! I'll check back later!

-C.

Hi,

None of us did anything wrong. They would have done it anyway. it was just the wrong time at the wrong place. There was nothing we could have done to change it. We could beat ourselves up thinking we could have done something - it was all written down - meant to be. Now we just have to move on.

One thing I realized - it was not my fault - it was not yours. Keep that in the back of your mind.

We all went thru the sleeping for a couple of hours when our children where young - that's being a mom. My husband used to say hey, hey baby is crying in the middle of the night. I used to get up half asleep - walk over to the cradle with my eyes half closed and pick the baby up and feed her. I looked at my husband - he was snoring and fast asleep. I had to get up in 3 hours later to go to work. But, yet I did it, because I was a mom. Being a mom is the greatest thing in the world......we are the best. Don't ever forget that - the mom is what holds the family together......No mom....the family is no longer.....

We'll see what happens tomorrow.....6/6/06.....the number of the beast.....weird isn't it?????

Darn.....it's raining again and I have to go outside and get the food of the grill....RATS!!!!

I know, in the back of my head, that it wasn't my fault. I don't think the A was all about one thing--it was a conglomeration of things, some I have figured out and some I never will. But still it nags me, you know? Was there a turning point for him, where things could have gone differently?

And I mentioned in an earlier post that I had a "spiritual" experience when we got engaged--that I knew that I was supposed to marry my H. So, accepting that God knows all, and that He wanted me to marry H, I must also accept that He knew that my H would do this to me. He knew how much I would be hurt in my marriage, and how crushingly disappointed I would be. This makes me sad to think that this is really what was intended for me. Didn't I deserve something better? But then I have to think that I don't know the whole picture--I don't have the perspective of what will happen in the years to come. Maybe as we go through recovery together, our M will be so much better that all the heartache will be worth it.

But I have thought, like HF, that I have learned that I am a much stronger person than my H. He may be the alpha-male caveman and everything. But I am stronger--he could never have taken this stuff. If the shoe was on the other foot and I had cheated--he would have crumbled and just divorced me, plain and simple.

Anyhow--I hope that your BBQ didn't get too soggy F&L! I'll check in with everyone tomorrow!

-C.

CSJ....

My husband is doing the dishes.....very good.

I told you oncoe before...what was meant to be....is written in the beginning....is we are to suffer...I don't know how long.....it will be. We will be rewarded in the end....that's they way I look at it. It has to be...for I have been taken advantage of far too long. I've been so good, for so long, something has got to give.

And, yes, If I did this my husband would have definitely crumbled and left me - I have no doubt about that.

Yep me too H would have left I know that. He would have been too selfish to stay and change the way he viewed the world like we have to.

CSJ are you going to Disney by any cahnce in Nov cuz we are too wouldnt that be a trip? We could meet by the castle with MB signs, have BS tshirts printed for me and you and FWH tshirts for the hubbies! Well maybe not huh? I have been to many places in Fla. Nov is nice and warm but cool enough to enjoy. It was really hot this weekend we were in the southern part too hot for me. Humid too I couldnt get my hair to stay straight!!!

Drex
Thanks for answering my post while I was away. I have been thinking about telling my good friends but I just cant bring myself to do it. At first I was so embarrassed but now I just feel ashamed of him. I know thats not my place but I cant have my friends looking at him and knowing what a disgusting thing he did. I know its a pride thing for me.

Funny thing is is that most people envy our relationship b/c we are so close and I can just hear people saying oh ya they hold hands all the time but you know what he did dont you? I know it would get out to people and even if it didnt there would be at least one more person who would know this horrible thing and hate him for it.

That said I know it would be easier for me if I told someone. I cant tell you how many times I have wanted to blurt it out. I thought maybe to his cousin who I am friends with b/c she couldnt hate him for this she loves him and knows what a great person he is. I feel like I am doing the right thing protecting us. I think in the long run it will be better for me. I just have to survive the next X amount of time w/o going crazy.

Have a good night everyone.
HF

Eesh, I stay away for a weekend and come back and it's a very anti male climate here. I'll have to be careful and tip toe through the land mines. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ladies, lets just try to remember. Men aren't the only ones who cheat. As a matter of fact, I would venture a guess that over half the time there's a cheating husband, there's also a cheating wife involved. Those are the worst kind of As too because the two KNOW that the other one is married and do it anyway. As opposed to the kind where the married person pretends to be single.

My beautiful wife started her As within a couple months of DD10 being born also. It happens to everyone. Both sexes.

Personally, I don't think it's selfish to leave a relationship if you can't get past what happened. There are lots of things to sort out. We didn't decide to stay in our marriages, knowing what we know, because we had to, did we? It's certainly not selfish. You have to be happy with you before you can be happy with your spouse and your marriage. Staying in a marriage after infidelity, if done for the right reasons, is very selfless. You go in knowing the hurt you'll experience, the time required to rebuild. I hope you're still in your marriages because you chose to be, not because you have to be.

Having said that, I've got a busy day today. There's going to be a rather intense IC in the middle of it so I don't know if I'll get done this afternoon what I planned to do. I hope the rest of you have a great day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Best wishes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi Everyone,

OK.....today is my D-Day...6/6/06......nothing unusual so far.

Drex....don't mean to offend, but the cheating spouses in our case are husbands - and they all went to the same "school" for their lessons - if you know what I mean. But, you are right, our references can refer to wives also. Cheaters are cheaters -whether they are a man or woman - anyone can be one. Don't forget - the other side of our coins are the OW - we give them an equal amount of bashing. We are not including you in our gripes. It would be nice if our husbands did some of the stuff you do.

HF.......isn't it funny that your husband cheated on you and you ar embarassed.....I felt the same way....we didn't do anything, yet, we are embarassed. Everyone also thinks we're the perfect family.....perfect marriage. You don't know how many times I also wanted to shout out....my husband treated me like a piece of crap.....I am so hurt, upset, depressed, etc......but I just smiled and became quite an actress - putting up a great "front". I had to bite my tongue many times. But, what would it have proved if I did that? People would say, "Your husband is such a good guy, works hard for his family - you guys have a great marriage". If they only knew! But, I guess it's better not to have said anything. Hoping For.....you'll survive - we are all surviving.

My husband has been quite nice the last couple of days - it feels good.

Going to see my dad......

Good morning everyone!

Drex-It's good to hear from you again--glad that we didn't scare you off, being "angry women" an all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But, in the interests of equal-opportunity bashing, I have unloaded plenty on the evil OW. I am still thinking of taking up voo-doo. Would that be wrong?

And HF--I also have felt embarassed over this whole thing, isn't that odd? Why should I feel ashamed when I didn't do anything wrong? Part of it is being ashamed for him--I hate for people to look at him and think, "what an [censored] . . ." because he's not, really. And part of it is being ashamed because I am afraid it reflects poorly on me--that people will think "he cheated on her? she must be a real shrew at home, or maybe she is bad in bed . . ." Am I being paranoid to think that people will talk like that?

And we are going to Disney World in November--over Thanksgiving. Is that when you are going? That would be too funny if we were there at the same time! Everyone should come and we would have some party, huh? My kids are already so excited, every time a commercial for Disneyland comes on they freak out. "We are going there! I CAN'T WAIT!!!!" I shouldn't have told them about it yet, I guess. November is a long time away for a four year old. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, we are all really looking forward to it (not my H as much--the whole amusement park thing isn't his idea of an ideal vacation, but he is ready to be a good sport and at least enjoy watching the girls have fun).

Oh--I am on chapter 9 of my book. But I am not even half-way done--it is really quite long! I haven't even got to the "juicy" stuff yet (although, I did peek ahead a bit <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ). It goes into a lot of relationship stuff which is very interesting, and seems to go along with the MB stuff quite well. So far, I am giving it 2 thumbs up!

But I'm glad that your 6-6-6 day isn't going to badly, F&L. And I'm VERY glad that your H is stepping up to the plate a bit--doing dishes even! Who knows, maybe he will discover that warm, fuzzy feeling in your heart that comes from doing kind things for someone you love!

Anyway, I hope your dad is doing well. So nice that his sweet daughter takes good care of him.

Anyhow, I'll check back later and see how everyone is doing!

-C.

CSj
so funny we are leaving here the Sat after Thanksgiving for a week!

Gotta run but wanted to let you know we should all get together for a csj thread reunion that weekend!
HF

Holy cow! We will just miss eachother! We are supposed to get there the Saturday before Thanksgiving and will leave the Saturday after! Too bad, because I seriously would have been game for a get-together!

-C.

Thats so weird. We will be traveling with my parents so it would be difficult to explain where I met someone from Utah but that would be wild. We are getting in around noon on Sat and staying at the Boardwalk. We go every 2 years at Christmas time its awesome! You will have a blast.

Let me know if you need any advise on what to do or where ot eat. We have pretty much done it all so much that its getting a little old but my girls are still little so we continue to go.

Have a good night!
HF

Hi Ladies,

I told CSJ, that she'll be like a kid again! It's the best place - such an fantasy land. We went 2 times with the family - I was like a kid in a candy shop!!!

I told CSJ, that she should go on "The Tower of Terror" - that's the scariest ride I ever went on!!!! It was in MGM Studios world. Other good rides are "Space Mountain and The Rockin Roller Coaster" - excellent. We loved Animal Kingdom the best - lots of trees, beautiful. It has a dinosaur ride which is good.

What we did because it gets hot was bring a water bottle and then keep filling it up at the water fountains - the water is cold in the fountains. My husband wore these shorts with a big pocket on each side - one for the water bottle and the other for his poncho. It rains all the time in Disney - you need a poncho! The first year we went we couldn't figure out where everyone whipped out these ponchos from - we thought they gave them away for free - little did we know you have to buy them. It rains constantly - a downpour and then the sun comes out.

Last time we went on the 4th of July - it had all kinds of fire works - great show. It was good, because we knew where everything was. It was so hot and humid. Your everday hairdo is a ponytail with a sun visor. We would go and walk all day - that's all you do and go in the pool at night. My kids were getting so tired from walking - they just wanted to go in the pool. My husband said, "I didn't spend all this money for you guys to go in the pool - you could do that at home. You are going to walk and have fun even if it kills you!" So we kept walking - we all had blisters on our feet. I wore flip flops every day - couldn't wear my sneakers - they gave me blisters. Make sure you have comfortable shoes - no heels!

CSJ....You'll have a ball - the kids will love it. Your husband will also love it. He'll be like a big kid!

Talk to you later........

Ugh I just lost this huge post I did! Is anyone else having problems with this "form is no longer valid" coming up?

Oh well will write more later no time now!
HF

HF- Yes, I have received that same weird error message about the invalid form. I almost swore like a sailor the first time it did that, but I think I figured out a way around it. I just clicked on the reverse arrow on my browser to get back to the page with my post on it. Then I highlighted it with the cursor and right-clicked to "copy." Then I got to a fresh page to reply, and just pasted my post there and clicked on "continue." Worked like a charm! It copied my whole post very nicely, and then posted it on the board without any problem. Give that a try.

But I will have to get your list of Disney Fav's along with F&L's before I go--then I should have a good idea of the very best things to see. I have heard that the Animal Kingdom is really amazing, and we are planning on hitting the Princess Breakfast as well. You see, DD1 is a princess, at least in her own mind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> She has a nice selection of costume dresses which she likes to wear, even when it's not Halloween. And she has princess names for how she wants her hair done, e.g.: "Can I have Aurora hair today?" She is 100% girl, that one is.

But I almost forgot about my best story from last night! H and I were having a really nice chat when he tells me that the other day, his good friend pulled him aside and was kind-of emotional. He said that his wife had an affair several years ago (which may still be going on, based on what he described) and that he has been really struggling emotionally all this time. And then a few days later, a coworker confided that his wife also cheated on him, and that he is having an affair of his own to "get back" at her. (Now there's logic for you!) We talked for a bit about their situations, and what advice he gave them, but H didn't give me many details. And that is fine, because those were private conversations with his friends. The important thing is that he is hearing about what it feels like to be betrayed from someone besides me, and understanding more about the effects of what he has done. As we turned of the light, we both said "I love you" and he asked, "do you really?????" twice before we went to sleep. I assured him, both times, that yes, I really, really do love him. Bless his doggone heart anyway.

But gotta run--it's past quittin' time, and I need to get home to my kids!

Talk to you tomorrow!

-C.