Boy I have thought about that question a lot. There have been times when I have wished that I never found out. It makes everything differrent now. But we were not flourishing. His guilt was eatinga way at him. He really feared that I would make him go and he became hostile towards me because of it.

If he never told me he never would have known that I love him enough to try to forgive him. And if he never told me I would have continued to think he was just not as in love wiht me as he used to be and thats just the way things are.

When its hard I do think boy I wish I just didnt know anything I was content not knowing but it was a bandaid on a wound that needed stitches. I wasnt happy it was obvious to me something was wrong. In the long run it will be better and the only way for us to get over something like this is for both of us to know and deal with it.

And Drex thanks for asking me about my MC I really dont know if I like him. I really feel like he just tells us you should get over it and he should be more patient with your recovery. I feel like he is frustrated with me because I am still upset and we have never explored WHY my H did this. I think he feels like my H is repentant and there are no problems now except that I am not smiling. We have no plan and no homework. He did say this week that last time he was thinking after we left that maybe why I am still not getting better is the way my H deals with me when I am upset which was good I just feel like a punching bag there sometimes. I am not the reason we are there!!! Hes the one who messed up.

Well I hope all is well with everyone. Have a nice weekend!
HF

Ok everyone
I have a small situation. We were at a party last night and someone said they heard a rumor about a distiant friend of ours and my husband kissing at another party. I know its not true because I was there at this party and what happened is that he and and these 2 women were at the bar right next to me last year way before dday and they were just teasing him and they both grabbed his butt. This was a very well attended party with hundreds of people at this well lit bar area and everyone saw it was just innocent drunk goosing.

One of the women is a HUGE gossip and when I saw her the next time I teased her about grabbing his butt and she got really defensive and said it wasnt her it was her best friend. I was there and saw the whole thing and she did it too but its not the first time I have caught her in a lie.

Anyway the woman that told me is a good friend of the huge gossip woman and I know it came from her. Why she would throw her best friend under the bus I dont know but my problem is is that now that I know my H has been a cheater I dont know how to react. Under normal circumstances I think I would be mad and call her on it but now I dont want to seem defensive plus I am just so glad its not true I dont care but I certainly dont want this going around. We live in a small town full of women who dont work and have nothing better to do than worry about other people.

So I think I am going to talk to the woman who was also falsly accused of kissing my H. I will see her at another function next week. My H is pissed he want to call the gossip but we dont know for sure if it was her or the interpretation of the story she heard or what. Anyway silly stupid stuff.

What would you guys do? I hate to even bring it up b/c I feel so tranparent like if I mention my H and a supposed infidlity they will see the truth of what he did or suspect its true when 6 months ago I wouldnt have cared b/c I would have sworn he wasnt capable of an infidelity.

Hope you all had a good weekend.
HF

HF -- If it were me, I wouldn't entertain the gossip or her best friend. At the most, state clearly that you were there and saw what happened. Ultimately, it's none of their business, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Just don't get into a peeing match over it.

As far as your MC... No plan? No homework? Sounds like you're just buying this guy dinner every time you see him, but I'm not there so I can't say for sure. I think we should define why you're going to MC though. Is it because you want to change your H or is it because you want to make your M stronger?

There are 3 sets of demons. His, hers and theirs. MC is designed to deal with theirs, maybe MAYBE one or two of his and hers. The objective of going to MC, to me, should be to strengthen the marriage, to relearn ways of communicating that don't involve ripping your spoouses arms off and beating him or her with the bloody stumps. To rediscover where the love you two have came from. In my opinion, you're looking for a change in him when you should be looking for a change in the two fo you as a couple.

Both of you are the reason you're in MC. Like it or not. Are you to blame for his A? Heck no. Are you as responsible as he is for the pre-A marriage? Yup. Somewhere along the line, you two stopped doing whatevet it was that made the two of you click.

It is my advice, for what it's worth, to pin your MC to the question and make him answer it. "What is your plan for us?" If his answer is anything close to "I don't have one, I'm just winging it." find another MC. I would also suggest IC if you're not getting that. I'm sure you've said before, I just don't recall.

We were lucky in that we found a MC that we both liked almost right away.

Best wishes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

HF,

I would tell the falsely accused woman (best friend of gossip), that you heard this rumour, and you know it isn't true, because you saw what happened. If she asks where you heard the rumor, tell her. She deserves to know that her "best" friend is gossiping about her.

As for the bigger question of anyone thinking that your H was unfaithful because you stand up to disprove this rumor, that is ridiculous. You were there, you saw what happened, and the rumor is a lie. No one will assume that because you are defending your H and setting the record straight, that he was unfaithful to you...The only way they would sense that would be if you got all upset over hearing the rumour...

Drexxel,

Good advice to HF about asking for a plan from MC. And I agree with you on the purpose of MC. Our MC said in the first session that he was an advocate for the Marriage, and for us to communicate better as husband and wife. He was not there to delve into individual issues, that we may be in IC for, Except as to how they affected the marriage.

Hope you all had a nice weekend!

Hi
I know its just weird like I dont know how to act. I think if it was before dday I would be really pi$$ed but I just dont care. This woman is nuts and everyone knows it but still any story people like to chew on especailly here. Sometimes I hate living here so much time on peoples hands. I have been busy planning something for my Hs birthday and have been busy and it is so good for me keeps my mind off things.

I am going to tell this other woman for sure. I was going to call the woman who told me but I dont want to make a big deal out of it. I will just wait till we go to this function her H and mine will both be there so it will be good.

I dont know what I am trying to get out of MC. It really feels like he is the man I married again and I am glad for that. We do communicate. He has pretty much kissed my a$$ since (as long as I am not beating him withe bloody stump). The MC does calm me down sometimes and my H does listen and take to heart the "be patient" stuff he tells him which is our hugest problem right now.

The truth is the problem when he cheated was just lack of attention he was getting b/c of the birht of 2 more kids. We are not in that situation now and he is truly repentant. We may never god willing be in a stressful situtation like that again. So it seems like the only problems are my forgiviness of his A and my pain.

But is that it? Can it be that easy? Ok H is good now just get over it and move on and be happy? Maybe i am just a sadist that I am making myself struggle here. It truly feels hard all the lies I have to live wiht him telling me all these years. It is a lot to forgive. Maybe I just dont feel worthy of a happy life after an A too.

Ok I am rambling. How is everyone else? I am sooooo busy with school ending this week. I cant wait to sleep in next week! Talk wiht you all soon.
HF

Hi HF,

It's not easy...and that is not just it...I think that you are putting too much blame on yourself...You need time to deal with this and get through the pain to trust again. That is not an easy task...It's difficult to move on, I know...On a good day, you think, well, this isn't so bad...And on a bad day, you think, this is awful! It's like you can't win.

You will get through it. Your H and mine are similar--they were selfish and thinking only of themselves. Now they are sorry and see the pain they caused. They understand that they should have talked to us instead of going outside the M to solve their problems. Meanwhile, we are left with the pain to deal with and get through. It's a tough thing to try to get through. You wonder, how could they do this? Will they do it again if they are unhappy, or will they do the right thing? Do they know enough now to protect themselves and our M from someone else?

I think that if you work through the issues that were there pre-A, you will come out with a much stronger marriage at the end...Don't pressure yourself to forgive. It will come when the time is right.

School's out here next week too...

Hi All,

It was very windy and chilly this weekend here. The Disco Concert in Atlantic City went well - we hit all kinds of traffic going down there - it took 2-1/2 hours to get there. The Concert was great - we danced out butts off and sang along till my daughter and I were hoarse. One group didn't show up - my daughter's favorite - so she was disappointed. A glass of wine was $7 - in a small plastic cup! I didn't have anything except water - which I bought - figured I had the long drive back.

After the concert - a little after 11:00 pm - we wanted to go to a restaurant - they were all done for the night - can you imagine in the Taj Mahal - you'd figure they'd be open all night! The 3 places that were open - had a 30-45 minute wait - so we figured heck with it and took off. It was great. Boy, did some of the performers change over the years. Lots of them gained a lot of weight, had grey hair or no hair - a lot different than they were in the 80's. The "Sugar Hill Gang" brought the house down - they were fantastic.

Sunday I stayed home and watched tv - snuggled on the couch with my hubby. They had a lot of good movies on. Lots of the movies had to do with cheating.....made my husband think back to what he did and how he could have blown it all - we talked about this and he told me he was so sorry for being stupid and thoughtless. That made me feel good - we talked the whole day! Talked, not shouted or angry words.

Hoping For.....I can't believe some people, that they have nothing better to do than to gossip about other people - not knowing whether it's the truth or elaborating on the truth. Some people just want to always have juicy news to spread - no matter who they hurt or step on. I'd confirm the truth to who ever needs to know.

I told you guys I went to 2 MC's. The first counselor, a woman, we didn't connect with at all. She asked the stupidest questions,i.e., what was my mother's maiden name, what city was she born in - same for my husband. She asked what my husband's brothers' names were? I realize that she has to know what our background was - but she just asked questions that didn't/wouldn't have anything to do with our problem. When we left her I was crying and we were both fighting. We only went to one session with her. Then when we started having a lot more problems 2 months down the road - I called back and said I need to see her asap - she never even returned my call. I guess she got mad because I cancelled the other appointments. So, that shows me what she was really like.

The 2nd marriage counselor was a man, kind of looked like a little grey-haired troll - shorter than me - and that's short. My husband and I kind of looked at each other when we saw him. He had a thick Russian/Jewish accent. This guy was great. We both like him right away. The first session we had with him - we walked away feeling good. The first thing he asked is why we were there? Do you want to save your marriage? Do we love each other? What do we want from this counseling? What do we expect?

We gave him some background - one at a time. He pretty much let us talk and only asked a couple of questions or so. He never gave us any homework to do. But, when he saw something didn't sound right - most of what my husband was saying - he told us how to rectify that action. We only went to about 5 sessions or so, and believe me he helped a lot.

The MC made my husband realize so many things - my husband never did. He also made me realize a lot also - he told me not to do everything for him, which is very hard for me to do. He also told me I can't change anyone who doesn't want to change. Even if my husband changes - he will not change completely - I have to accept this fact. I have to live with this. A lot of my husband's actions and attitude are so deeply imbedded in his head, because of his upbringing, that they will not change. But, what he did tell my husband is that if he keeps treating me like he did in the past - he will lose me. Also, I shouldn't put up with that kind of behavior. Most important, there is no excuse for cheating, no matter what you are going thru - tat doesn't solve any problems - only adds to problems.

If my MC told me to just get over it – I definitely would have been angry at him – he may be a MC, but he certainly doesn’t know what you yourself are going thru. Every person is different and should be treated as such. You may need more time than others – you may have more emotions than others – he should see this. Remember you are not obligated to have only one MC – no progress, or not to your liking – means you should seek a new MC.

This little "troll MC" was the nicest, smartest guy we met. He was witty, very frank at times and gave us some darn good advice. This is the kind of MC you should have Hoping For.....not one that either makes you cry constantly or leave feeling like nothing got accomplished. What good is that? What are you paying for?

I'm going to tell you ladies again - stop saying you weren't paying attention to them when you were pregnant - they should have been more compassionate with you and your condition. I'd like to see how'd they be if they were pregnant. You were carrying their child - they should think you are the best woman in the world at that time. For them to whine and say they’re not paying attention to me - that makes me so angry!!!!Guys have no idea what we go thru!

Give them something to throw up for a couple of months, strap a watermelon on them and let them carry it around for 3 months - tell them they look like heck, then give them something that feels like you're ripping their arms and legs off without anesthesia - let's see how they feel! Then have them get up in the middle of the night every hour or two and tell them - why are you tired - in addition to watching other children. Not to mention all the crappy diapers they would have to change. If guys had some of this experience - they would appreciate you more and stop whining about how they are neglected when YOU are pregnant.

I once told you ladies, if men had babies, they would find a cure for all pain, things would be a lot different. I sound like a woman libber - don't I?

Yeah, me that I do everything for my hubby except cut his meat on his plate!

Afternoon everybody!

F&L--I enjoyed your concert report!!! It sounds like such a good time! Disco is such happy music, isn't it? A few years ago I went to "Mama Mia" in Vegas and just had a blast. A played my "ABBA Greatest Hits" over and over--and my girls became real fans. They love "Dancing Queen." And who wouldn't??????

HF--I agree with Mama on the rumor advice. I think it might help to nip things in the bud to let the friend know what's being said. If she's a real go-to gal, she may put that fire out for you without having to lift a finger. Then you can just calmly stand by and say, "see, I told you it never happened."

And I think your counselor sounds like a quack. Perhaps that's a snap judgment--we never tried MC so I don't know what they're like out there. And over the years with my job, I've dealt with many different types of therapist/psychologists and I've developed a little bit of a bias here--I think the whole therapy area is a bit more of an "art" than a "science." There's not an easy formula to fix what's hurting people emotionally. Early on, we had talked of going to counseling, but then heard some generally bad feedback about the success in MC, and so we didn't ever start. Plus, my H is not the type to talk much about his feelings to anyone--much less to a total stranger. I just wasn't really seeing it a a terribly productive option.

All that being said, I believe that counseling a couple can be a good thing, but it should involve more than just telling the BS to "get over it"--which is what your counselor is telling you. To me, that helps your H justify his actions. He's not being called on the carpet for what he did, you're being admonished to just forget what happened. How is this helpful to either of you, or to your marriage??????

I think your H and mine had much in common (the caveman club again)--they both got wrapped up in an A because their babies were getting more attention than they were. And when they didn't get caught, they wanted to take it to their graves. If I wouldn't have got that phone call from the OW's B-in-L, I would never have known a thing about it. But perhaps you are right about your observation--the guilt of carrying that around would have taken a toll on my H, and he may have turned that around on me somehow and blamed me for how rotten he felt. Ignorance isn't much of a cure for anything. At least now I can take steps to make things stronger. Before I would have written any problems off as "normal" for "old married people," and not taken steps to make things better. I just wish there was a better way to learn what I have learned so far!

Drex--and you do hair, on top of everything? You are a talented guy, for sure. I am not the most talented stylist, which is unfortunate, because DD1 has long really beautiful hair, which has a lot of potential to be done lots of different ways, I'm sure. Just not by me. Today she wanted Pocohantas hair--that is definately in my hair repertoire! But my lucky break is that both my girls have naturally curly hair, so I don't really have to do much to get them looking perfectly "coiffed." I know I'm a biased mom, but sometimes I look at them and think "wow--they are so beautiful!"

But my trip report for the weekend!

We had a really great time on our wagon ride. There were about 7-8 covered wagons in the wagon train, and then about 10 or so of us rode horses. Now this whole activity may sound a little goofy to you easterners--because I am guessing that this is a "western heritage" thing that doesn't really manifest itself over on the east coast. But the pioneer history thing is quite big out here. We learn about it in gradeschool during our state history courses, and it is really drummed into you. On top of that, Utah has a State holiday every July 24 to commemorate the July 24, 1847 day when the first wagon trains rolled into the Salt Lake Valley (called, appropriated enough, "Pioneer Day"). I have many ancestors who travelled here in this way back then, so it has some personal importance to me, also.

Anyway, it is really something to see those wagons all making their way across the countryside--and the route we went on was very scenic. We went alongside a lake, and then through a valley with rolling hills. So pretty. The girls rode in a wagon most of the time (although DD2 is a bit of a cowgirl, I think. She rode with my H on his horse for a while and just loved it--cried when we took her off. She wore her cowgirl boots all weekend and wouldn't take them off for anything.) H and I rode horses for almost the whole trip (14 miles), which took quite a toll on my behind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm not as young as I used to be, I suppose! It started to rain when we were about 1/2 way back to camp, so we led the horses behind us and H and I hopped in the wagon for the last bit behind to stay dry. We sang songs and told jokes, and the girls had a really fun experience. They both said they would like to go again sometime. So it ended up being a really nice family time. Like Drex says--memories like that are worth a lot. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Amyhow, I've been working on this post for a bit, so I'll sign off and check back a bit later. Have a good day, everybody!

-C.

Hi CSJ,

I had such a good time at the concert. I think I must have lost a couple of pounds from dancing - all right next to my seat. We screamed, yelled and sang so much. I hated the ride back - my daughter fell asleep the moment we got in the car - I had to drive back over 2 hrs. - trying to blast the radio so I wouldn't fall asleep in the dark on the parkway. Well, not to worry on Sunday I cooked chicken/Pasta with Pesto sauce - so I probably gained back whatever I lost.

CSJ.....I agree with you on the MC thing....if I went to the MC more than 3 times and I still don't see anything happening - that would be the end of the MC. My husband is also like yours - he doesn't like to talk about his personal problems with strangers. It's just that I was freaking out by all his actions - I was having anxiety attacks, crying and angry all the time - that I begged him to go to a MC - because I couldn't convince him of how cruel he was acting. I knew someone else besides me had to tell him that and it had to be a professional. Our MC did a lot of good. I am sure the first one we went to wouldn't have done a thing for us. I think she was more concerned about us coming back many times, so she can redecorate her fancy office. The 2nd MC was thru Catholic Charities - we had to pay full price though - but no fancy office.

CSJ.....I certainly don't have any wagon train rides in my area - but, that sure sounds like a fun time with the family. I'd like to do that - and I'm sure my girls would also. We sometimes go further south in Jersey and pick our own strawberries and corn - it's fun. We also go to the apple farms and see how they make pies and get fresh pies. I make pies also, but to go to the farm is more fun. The more stuff you do as a family will make all of you bond together. Keep doing this.

I know what you mean about curly hair - I and my two daughters have curly thick hair. The slightest bit of humidity and poooof, our hair gets twice it's size. When I was a little girl, I alway had this messy, curly, frizzy blonde hair - so my mom always had to put it in 2 braids. I used to still get these little curls at the 2 sides of my forehead. I gave up trying to straighten our hair - we just wear it curly.

Our kids are in school for another 2 weeks.

I might check in later - tonight is my husband's bi-weekly meeting at work - so I'll be home by myself tonight.

F&L- Sometimes I wonder if I should have pushed the MC thing. But honestly, for myself I think I am getting my "counseling" here--I value the opinion and insight of people who have lived it more than someone saying, "so how do you feel about that . . . ?" And my H read SAA and I believe he took it to heart. He has been making changes. Not 100% what I want of him--but as your counselor told you--to a certain extent, people are who they are. They can bend, they can adapt, but their personality is what it is. We just have to decide if we can live with it.

For my H, his major button is his autonomy. I had recognized this before, but hadn't really thought much about where it came from. But now I recognize that there is MUCH family history for him on this issue, and I don't see him just letting it go. His paternal grandmother is an EXTREMELY controlling woman, and just to keep the pattern going, H's dad married a very controlling person also (they are now divorced--in addition to the control issue she had an A of her own). I say this without malice because I care deeply for both of these ladies, and they have been kind and accepting to me since I married into their family. Nevertheless, a "controlling" wife is a HUGE trigger for my H. No amount of counseling will change this--it is who my H is. So if he wants to go hang out with his friends for an hour or two in the evening, he is going to do it no matter what I say, because he is in control of himself.

But I am seeing a "new leaf" in other ways. For example, my H really loves the ego boost he gets from female attention. He gets flirtatious comments from time to time, and he eats it up. He generally comes home and shares it with me, so that I can truly appreciate what I catch I have. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (He didn't do this when OW started flirting with him, however--knew that I would put a stop to that I guess.) But I have laughed with him and not really felt threatened by this before all this happened. Now, of course, I don't like it one bit. The neighbor girl (about 17) walked over the other day--she sees my H at the high school as his current work assignment keeps him there about 1/2 of the time. So she walks over with her friend and the two of them are chatty with H and his friend, who is hanging out in the driveway. They stay for a while, tossing their hair, all the body language that I recognize as being flirty. When H came inside I asked, "so who were those slutty girls out there?" He laughed and said, "just the neighbor--they were talking, that's all." But his friend had recognized that there was something fishy about it, and told my H after the girls left that if I had seen, I would be ticked about it. I explained to H that his friend was right--I was ticked. Because those girls are not H's peers. It is not appropriate for them to come and socialize with two married men. There is no reason for them to come and chit-chat like that. So the next time H saw the slutty neighbor girl outside, he told me that he went into the shed to finish his work so she wouldn't see him and come over. I thanked him for respecting my feelings about this. He can be taught! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I think we are learning together, without counseling. Maybe not the ideal way, but I think it is working for us.

And the family time does make such a difference. I have watched my H really open up around the kids as he spends more time with them. He is really growing and embracing the time he has with them, and their little quirks. DD2 has a special spot in his heart, I think (which is ironic because his A started after she was born--it was like he resented her at first . . .). And I think that as he discovers the joys of being the "family guy" he will be able to see family time as something he really wants--not something that is demanded of him or that I am controlling him to get.

Anyway, I need to get back to work, but I hope everyone has a nice evening!

-C.

CSJ.....

It's so funny how these men are alike in so many ways. My husband too, just eats it up when women flirt with him. He always used to tell me how women would flirt with him on his previous jobs, many even indicating they were interested in him - but, he always would tell them he was married. I always told him he was handsome, no wonder other women wanted him. I never, ever failed to compliment him. I guess afte a while - his head got too big.



Things can happen if you ignore them and let it happen. I wish I would have not ignored all the signs when my husband was having his affair with his secretary - I saw it, but said no, it couldn't be happening. Never again.

I'm glad we went to MC - it did a great deal for him. He, also never liked to talk to anyone. He told me he hated shrinks - would never go to one. He said he didn't need a MC - there was nothing wrong with him. But, we were arguing and fighting so much - we had to do something - he was most of the cause. If we hadn't have gone - he would have never realized he did anything wrong. He had so many scewed up ideas in his head, someone other than me had to tell him. It worked out for the best.

I don't think everyone needs a MC, but some people have such deep rooted problems and their spouse just can't help them solve them. The spouses never want to listen to their spouses suggestions or advice. If they would - they wouldn't have did what they did and we wouldn't be here posting on MB.

My husband's meeting closed early....he's on his way home. He'll eat and we'll watch a little tv. He again said he was sorry on the phone tonight when he called me. We had a good discussion yesterday afternoon, while watching tv.

CSJ and F&L
My H too loves the attention. I think the firts date night we went out on after dday he said to me oh did you see her checking me out? I said no but Id like to PUNCH you out. How ignorant.

I also remeber him packing to go on business one day and saying dont i look good in this or something and I said oh what are you looking for a date and he said something like oh I can get girls and I laughed and he got pi$$ed and said oh ya you think I cant. Well I guess he showed me. Now I am supposed to believe he felt guilt and remorse for years that certainly doesnt sound it to me.

I just saw a commercial today where this couple is talking and he says something about liking to dance with girls and she jokes around with him. I thought how sad that best case scenario I will still not be able to joke about trusting him when I am old and grey. That really stinks. It would be nice to fly around the earth like superman and turn back time.

have a nice night everyone
HF

Morning everyone-

I hope everyone's having a good day so far! H and I got into it a bit last night, and I can't help but wonder when this will all be over. When will it all just be a dim memory, where a scattered thought doesn't bug me anymore?

A bunch of H's friends came to the house last night--no reason, just wanted to hang out, like they often do. Generally these little guy sessions get over around 8, so we still have some time together in the evening, so I live with it. It's not what I want--I would like to have what I grew up with, which is a dad home every evening to sit down to a family meal. It is very disappointing to me that this issue is not something which my H finds important. But--this is a gradual battle, I have decided. One thing at a time. Anyway, the gathering continued until 10pm last night. I sat inside and watched tv by myself while they hung out and did whatever it is they do, feeling sorry for myself.

In the past, this wouldn't have bothered me at all. I was so confident about US, you know???? Even if my H didn't smother me with compliments and "I Love You's", I totally trusted and believed in his love, and in our marriage. It never occurred to me to be jealous of the time he spent with his friends! But now the confident CSJ is gone. Does he find me boring? Does he want to be with me at all? We just had this lovely family weekend, and you'd think I'd be satisfied with that, but one night of putting me on the back burner makes me feel like I'm worthless. I hate this.

So he comes to bed and can instantly see that I'm down. He lays down and starts to talk to me about it, and then I'm crying and telling him how I hate not believing in us anymore. "I'm sorry--I wish it never happened." He just doesn't know what else to say. And really, what else is there to say? I don't know myself.

So I don't think it's terribly unfair to blame my terrible headache on my H, is it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Anyhow, I'll check back later . . .

-C.

bumping up

CSJ...

Your so right, little stuff before never bothered me either. My husband could have come home late or even stayed out for hours on end with his brothers or friends and yes, I'd be mad, but I'd get over quickly and never give it a second thought. But, after D-Day, it's a different story; every little thing gives me a question in my mind. I don't like feeling like this.

Even now that he's working at his new job - I know that he has meetings at night - I have his schedule - he gave it to me so I would know he was working. But, still - I get this feeling that I'm not sure he is working - I just don't know why. He assures me that he will never, ever do what he did again, but it's so hard to have that trust that I had before.

Before women could flirt with him and he would tell me and I would just laugh it off. He could never tell me that now - I know I would get upset and be angry. I don't like feeling this way - and I want to feel like I did before - but I just can't. I too wonder - how long will it take?

You're not alone - I think we all feel the same. I guess it's just a matter of time. I've gotten to be a good actor - putting up a good front. But, again like you, I wonder how long it's going to take to get back to normal? Will it ever be normal?

Everything anyone of you said is the same with all of us. None of us feel different. We all have the same feelings at one time or another. We will still have our ups and downs - I think this is going to last for a long time. I know our husbands can't understand why we feel like we do. But, I certainly can understand how you feel - because I feel the same - you are not alone.

I get headaches too, sometimes so awful I think my head is going to blow up - I get migraines - but I think I work myself up so much - it's no wonder I get them. But sometimes we just have so much on our minds - so much to think about - so much stress - how could we not get a headache. Would you get that headache if things were going along fine - probably not - so it comes indirectly from your husband.

It's just another day, one of many to come. We'll get thru all of them.

csj
Like everyone else here I know exactly how you feel. I used to be so carefree with him. Out with the guys ok. Out to lunch with a client ok. Now I think why isnt he spending that time with me? Did he always want to be with me? Why did he need her? If he needs only me why does he want to do anything else?

Its so hard. I wish it was half as easy as he thinks it is. I want to believe his stories about the remorse and the lack of deep feelings for the OW but I am so scared and unsure of myself and the decisions that I made ot believe in him. Its like he is asking me to jump off a cliff with a blind fold on.

Sometimes I honestly think would I have married him if I knew he would do this? I dont think I would have. I love him so much but I never wanted this in my life and it will be there now forever. I truly feel it will never be gone. It will always hurt not as much as today but it will always be there. I will never look at him the same way again.

Other times I think well it was a mistake a HUGE mistake but a mistake all the same and I cant break up my family over a small period of time where he was abducted by aliens and not acting like the man I knew.

My H like yours csj says I am so sorry I hate what I did I will never ever...what more can he say. Sometimes I think I want blood out of him. I wnat him to right his wrong and he cant and he never will be able to. Somehow I have to learn to live with that and I hate it and resent him for it.

Whew...venting complete. F&L and my H said it best today another day...we are closer to this being in the rearview mirror.

Have a better night.
HF

I know what you mean--I really do resent knowing that my future is FOREVER changed by his recklessness. Even after "healing" our marriage, even after 20 years of water under the bridge, I can never have restored to me what I had. I will always have the knowledge that he cheated on me. We were watching a documentary the other night about Ernest Hemingway (why?????? 100+ channels and this is what H picks to watch???????) and his womanizing was chronicled with great detail, and all I could think was "cheating bast*rd . . ." I can't even watch a booooring documentary without getting ticked off!

I saw another thread on here once that compared the forgiveness process with "becoming comfortable on the pee-stained couch." Which made me laugh, but it's not quite right, I don't think. If you really, deep-down believe in forgiveness, and the principal of repentance, then there isn't a stain on the couch anymore. Repentance is supposed to make the couch as clean and pure as snow. So it's not so much the stain that remains to bother us--it's the memory of what happened on the couch. And that's what makes me so sad--so incredibly disappointed. No matter what, I will always know that my couch was peed on.

Anyway--thanks for the vent today, ladies! I hope a better night for all of you, also!

-C.

Good afternoon everyone,

I guess everyone is doing ok today, after we all vented yesterday. I guess today is a better day.

Yesterday, I must have done too much, I had a back ache all night and I could just about move this morning. I'm goind to stay home today - took my celebrex - it just made me nauseous. I can't stand just staying in the house. It feels like someone has me tied down and I can't move.

Even when I had my broken foot a couple of years ago, I couldn't just sit down - I would hop around to do the laundry and vacuum. I would vacuum on crutches - it could be done! Even sitting down hurts. RATS!!!!

I have to drop off my car today at the dealer - the "check engine light" won't go off - it has to do with the emission system. I probably won't have a car for a couple of days - more me being tied down!

CSJ.....I still get like you when I watch shows on cheating - I could watch them - but they immediately make me think - compare the situation in the movie to mine - find similar circumstances. I never even gave things like that a second thought before. But now, when I watch movies like that - every action is the same - I know what's going to be said and what's going to happen. If it's a woman cheating my husband right away says, "You can't trust women"! It's funny if it's a guy cheating in the movie - my husband doesn't say he can't trust men! I feel the same about both sexes - you can't trust any cheater.

Hoping For......I don't think any one of us would have married our spouses if we knew we were in for a lot of hurt and pain. No one wants to put ourselves in a position purposely in which we will suffer. We all thought it was going to go on forever as a beautiful marriage.

Nothing is for sure in our lives - except that one day we won't be here. You could spend the rest of your life being bitter, sorry for yourself, not trusting and be unhappy. Or, you can move on and try to heal yourself and try to gain back your happiness. The only problem I think we are all having is that our spouses think this happens overnight - which we know doesn't. I don't know when, but it will happen.

Afternoon everybody! Pretty quiet today, huh? H and I had a talk last night about the A--probably the first time we have really discussed it for more than 5 minutes. In the past if we have picked too much at it either I would get emotional, or he would just get quiet and shut down. But he brought up meeting up with an old friend "Ed" and it got us to talking.

You see, "Ed" was a bit of a player in the whole thing. For a long time--years, I guess, H and "Ed" and a few others would meet up regularly for a coffee break at a local coffee shop. OW's step-dad owned the place, and OW was a waitress there. (The plot thickens . . .) Anyhow, "Ed" is a notorious womanizer (married 5-6 times, serial cheater) and cannot help himself from sexual banter. If there is a dirty joke to be made, he will do it. If there is a woman to be oogled, he's your guy. So OW's ennormous boob-job (which I have mentioned previously) was just irresistable to him. There was lots of jokes and conversation about her breasts--much of it in her presence. H would come home and tell me stories about "Ed" and his on-going jokes with OW. Anyhow, around the time DD2 was born, and H happened to be feeling a bit lonely, "Ed" just happened to start talking about phone sex with OW. Got lots of laughs, I guess. So the talk about phone sex gets going back and forth, and H throws out his cell phone #--he says he just meant it to be funny, and I believe him (foolishly, perhaps). Except that it took a serious turn when OW decided to actually call H and continues the dirty talk with him. This is how the A started.

Since the sh*t hit the fan, H hadn't returned to the coffee shop, or to his regular coffee sessions with "Ed." But the shop was sold--OW got a new job--"Ed" started calling H constantly, asking him to come back: "we miss you . . ."

Needless to say, I am not a big fan of "Ed" these days. So when H said that he had gone back to the coffee shop and was visiting with "Ed" again, I wasn't real thrilled. I started venting a bit, telling H that "Ed" was a bad friend and that I thought we were both better off without him in our lives. H really came to "Ed's" defense, saying that nothing was his fault, and how could I blame him??? I explained, repeatedly, that I do not blame "Ed." H is responsible for H's own choices. However, "Ed" was solely responsibly for the sexual atmosphere where the relationship with OW developed--and he is responsible for that. If "Ed" were removed from the equation, I do not believe that the A would have ever happened, period. H thinks that I am being unfair, but I told him that I am willing to take responsibility for my contribution--H felt that I didn't need/want him because I was too preoccupied with DD2. H felt inadequate because he was passed over for his promotion at work. OW made him feel special, and I didn't. That part is my responsibility.

H got a bit emotional and told me that I can't blame myself for something that isnt my fault. Again, he doesn't see a real distinction between placing blame, and accepting responsibility. I don't blame myself. I don't blame "Ed." But no one's actions occur in a vacuum--we all react to the things/people around us. H made an incredibly stupid, destructive, reckless, selfish choice to have an A, but there were lots of factors created by other people, including me, and including "Ed." "Good friends don't bring out the worst in you," I told him. We ended the conversation with H not really agreeing with me, but maybe with a bit more insight about how other people influence us. Which I think is a real positive.

But he still comes to OW's defense, which irritates me to no end. I caught him saying "I am completely responsible for what happened." Okay, so what about OW? She doesn't get to shoulder any blame????? H got a little choked up and said "I will not blame anyone else for what I did." I think he sees recognition of other people's involvement as weak on his part--like he's not a man if he doesn't take on all the blame by himself. And he still doesn't believe OW had anything to do with the creepy phone calls I got from her friends. Whatever. I think he is stuck thinking that since he is a good person who made a bad choice, that she must be, too.

Anyway, I am at least glad that we are to a point where we can discuss things a bit. And we even laughed a bit--making fun of "Ed" was entertaining for both of us.

But I hope you are all having a good day! I'll check back later to see how you all are doing!

Take it easy, F&L, with your back, okay? Backs are touchy things, so you don't want to mess yours up!

-C.

Hello ladies (no Drexxel in a couple days),

Just took some time to catch up on the posts. I agreed with all the back and forth chat going on about trusting H to go out with no qts asked, everything you all said goes for me too. And I agree w/ F&L about us putting too much blame on ourselves for focusing on our babies instead of our husbands...If we didn't, who would??

CSJ,
The wagon train sounds really fun, but there is NOTHING like that here. I've never even heard of Pioneer Day. But I think I would love it==I still like Little House on the Prairie!

Communication is the key...the more you and your H can talk about the A without tears or getting defensive, the better. That is a good sign for all that we can do it...

Well, I'm still buried at work so will just close this for now. I didn't even think I would get on here today but decided to take a break...

Have a good night!