F&L-

We were posting at the same time when I put up my last, so I missed yours! Yes, I believe that technically rhubard is a vegetable. I try not to think about that, because it sounds disgusting to make jam and pie out of a vegetable. But then I think tomatoes are technically a fruit, aren't they???? So go figure. And I agree with HF--don't ever eat it raw!!!! It's much too sour. Needs sugar.

HF--the possibility that there is a deportation involved could have some bearing, like F&L suggests. I don't think it would stop the police (or DCFS) from conducting a proper investigation (at least it SHOULDN'T--an illegal alien crime victim is still a crime victim, after all), but it might impact the willingness of the adults to bring in the authorities. If they're afraid of getting shipped out, they may not want to call police. I hope that's not the case, because this little girl needs someone to be an advocate for her!

Anyhow, I'll check in tomorrow!

-C.

Hoping For,

I agree with CSJ. A lot of people that are foreign born and are here illegally are afraid to come forth if things like this happen - if this is the case, you have to try and convince them to still convict this person. Was the child born in the US - if so, the child is a citizen - she has rights! I am such an advocate for children's rights - something like this can't go unnoticed. I don't know if you want to get involved, but someone should contact (DFYS) Division of Youth and Family Services (that's what they call it in our area) - they can help.

CSJ.....yes, a tomato is a fruit. Once you explained how rhubard looks - I have seen it in the supermarkets - in the veggie section. I thought you steamed/boiled it like collards/escarole/chicory/spinach and ate it like a veggie.

Talk to you all later....have a nice weekend if I don't talk to you.

Afternoon everyone,

I just put DD2 down for her nap (over her objection) and have a minute to myself. We'll be going up to Salt Lake City when DD2 wakes up for a quick visit with my parents, who are in town for a few days. Tomorrow morning we'll go camping, just overnight. Mostly to get everything set up for next weekend--the big 4th of July bash.

H and I got talking again last night. It started out pretty favorably, but ended badly. On the positive side, he is finally being honest about some things. Things I'd pretty much figured out on my own, but it still hurts to hear it spoken out loud. He admitted that the A was pretty much motivated by SF. He wasn't really lonely--denied any other problems. Just claims he wanted more SF--and better SF--than what he had been getting.

The irony is that I actually brought up the SF issue many times during our marriage. We weren't terribly frequent with it, and while I didn't really care that much, I was worried that he did. He is, after all, a guy. And everyone always says how men are all about SF. So every so often, I would ask him about it. Did we need to work on something? Was he unhappy? He always denied that there was a problem--"don't worry about it" he'd say. I even remember him bringing the issue up once, after reading an article in "Runner" magazine that said a high level of exercise could decrease libido. He showed it to me and said maybe his daily 5 mile run was responsibile for our SF habits.

But last night he confessed that it had always bothered him that we didn't have more SF. I asked him why he didn't just initiate it more--it's not like I turned him down. "I don't know," he said. I asked why he didn't respond to my repeated questions about it. "I don't know," he said. Through this whole discussion, I was totally calm--so he could feel safe telling me the truth. But then he threw out this: "I never felt like we were very compatible sexually."

I'm all for radical honesty--but this made me feel like I'd been kicked in the stomach. To think that during our whole marriage--almost 9 years now--he's felt that I'm just . . . inadequate or something. I have felt sick all day--I didn't sleep well. My eyes are puffy from crying. And I really let him have it--screamed at him. Before DDay I never raised my voice at him. I yelled at him that "compatibility" is a two-way street and I don't remember him doing anything to make things better.

I hate that he has made me feel like sh*t these past 7 months--I just feel so torn down and totally worthless. And it occurs to me that your spouse shouldn't make you feel that way.

I wanted to leave him again last night--I just hate this cycle of starting to feel okay and then crashing again. He came home for a minute this morning to check on me and apologized again.

Anyway, I hope everyone else is having a better day.

-C.

CSJ...

I know everyone is gone for the weekend...but you can catch up on my post on Monday.

I hate to say this, but we are all in the same situation with the SF thing. Men just don't realize how tired we get from taking care of the young kids and some of us working a full time job at the same time. All the burden of the kids, housework, cooking, cleaning is on us. I remember when I worked full time - by the time 9:00 rolled around - all I wanted was to go to bed and sleep. Being a mom is physically exhausting. I always told my husband - in my next life - I want to come back as a man - they have it all.

Even after I left my job, I would work in the yard, around the house, take care of my dad - I was still tired. I think all of us have the brunt of all the chores - it's just too much. I think my husband's A also had to do with him thinking he wasn't getting enough of some kind of sex. But, none of these guys realized that if they would have stayed with these OW - they eventually would have gotten tired of doing everything for them and being dead tired and then have to "service" them at their beckon call. I think these OW would be doing the same thing as us.

The other thing too is they never think of wooing you, being sweet, maybe bringing flowers for no reason, being romantic, making you want to have SF with them. It's always the same routine during the day and then when you go to sleep, they spring it on you - they want SF - right then and there. And, if you say I'm tired - they say ok, but you know they're totally ticked off.

And they always think it's you that has changed and never wants SF - haven't they changed also. Remember when you where going out with them - things were a lot different back then - they were different too. It's not only you that changed - so did they.

You can never ask them if everything is ok in that dept. - it always is - its fine if you ask them. God forbid if they should tell you something, so you can work things out. These guys are all the same. So many things could have been prevented, if only they said something.

Don't worry CSJ.....it's the same I think for all of us. Another thing we have to get past and try to prevent in the future.

Have a great weekend - talk to you on Monday.

Sorry I haven't posted, ladies, I've been incredibly busy the last couple weeks. Everything is going fine here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll stop in again when I get more time. Real quick, though, if your man is saying everything is fine in the bedroom for him, they you start experimenting on things you want to try. Don't get caught in a rut. If you start doing new things, you'll both find a newly developed interest in SF. Just because we're cleaning the house and taking care of kids doesn't mean we can't have energy for SF.

I'll add something else. Guys take being turned down for SF personally. It's a personal rejection. You might say, "I'm just too tired tonight." But that won't matter because what they'll hear is, "I don't want to have sex with YOU."

I know chores and kids are energy consuming. You have to get away from this "SF is a sacrifice" thing. If you're sacrificing to have SF, you're just building resentment and that's counter productive to what your goal is, right?

Best wishes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Morning everyone! Or I guess it's probably afternoon where you all are--it's barely morning here.

Good to hear from you, Drexxel--we were wondering when you would pop in again! Actually, I was hoping you would, since you are the resident expert in the male point of view. There are some things that, as ladies, we will probably never understand about how men think. But I do get why it would be a personal thing to feel rejected in that department--I'm feeling that way now! No one likes to be criticized about SF, I imagine.

And I have thought about some of the points you made also, F&L--SF with the OW probably seems like the best SF ever for a while--it's got the whole "forbidden" thing going for it, which makes it that much more exciting. Plus, you're not competing with any of the real world distractions in an affair. SF under those circumstances has got to really make you feel like the world moved for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I can't compete with that. I am the boring wife. I clean his toilets--I trim his hair. This isn't sexy. But he's not thinking of how boring SF would be with OW if she was the boring wife. The luster would be gone from that relationship in short order. I happen to know, from people who have associations with the OW--what a truly high-maintaince person she is. It would only take about 30 seconds of living with her for her to drive him nuts.

It just seems really amazing to me that this issue has turned into such a tornado. In so many other ways, my H and I are very compatable. We have always gotten along well--we don't argue, we laugh, we enjoy each other's company. He told me many times during our marriage that he thought we were such a good fit together. So was this all BS???? I am thinking that at least part of it is that revision of history that occurs during an A, and now it's hard to know what's real anymore.

Anyway--we ended up having a good time on the quick camping trip. We got everything all set up for the coming holiday weekend, anyway. The girls had a grand time--we brought their new bikes and they really enjoyed riding around the little town where our cabin site is. It's in a historic mining town that is right next to a pretty lake. The town is very small--I think the mine shut down in the early 1900s, so parts of it look like it's kind-of stuck in that century. H even found the old jail there--which is a cement building with a single cell. The girls thought it was a hoot to stand in there and pretend they'd been arrested. And they have a really interesting old cemetary there that is just up the hill from our lot--it's full of old, old gravestones, and it has a monument to a mining accident in 1900 when 200 miners were killed. It was interesting to poke around there. Anyway, I don't want to claw H's eyes out anymore, so that much is good.

So I hope everyone else had a nice weekend. I'll check back later!

-C.

Morning everyone--I'll bump this up and check back later to see if everyone is having a good day!

-C.

Hi Everybody,

My internet has been messed up. My car is screwed up again, same thing - have a loan car. My cat, George, has to have the operation to save his life - waiting for the vet to call me. Other than that, all is ok.

We had a nice weekend, even though it rained. It's going to rain on and off her all week.

Drex.....I just don't know why you guys take it so personally when we say no to you guys. What's up with that? Then instead of saying it's not ok, you get that look on your faces. Drex, you're a different kind of animal than most of these guys. SF isn't a sacrifice, it's just that sometimes we are so darned tired and you guys just can't understand why.

Your camping trip sounds like you had a lot of fun. You were in jail again and you brought the kids to jail this time - I don't know?????

I was always told my husband and I got along so well together - I was told this for so long. Did he just tell me this to keep me quiet? Well, things are moving along good - we had a long talk on the weekend about last year - we could finally do this. He very much realizes how stupid he was for what he did and he could have ruined everything. He says God gave him a second chance and he doesn't want to blow it this time. So many other things could have gone wrong - but he was looking out for him.

Well, I don't know if I can come back on here later, this internet has been so goofy. I have to stay at home today and wait for the car dealer and the vet to call me. I hope my little fat Georgie is ok. The girls are so worried about him.

Everyone has a good day.....

So F&L, how's your cat? Is he going to pull through?

-C.

Hey everyone
I havent been able to post because I keep losing them!!!!!! Of course only the looonng ones! One last night and one this morning! I will try later but wanted to let you know I am alive!
HF

HF-
So any news on that little gal you were trying to help out? I've been wondering about her . . .

-C.

Hi All,

Just to let you know that my cat, George, pulled thru the operation. He had stones in his bladder, which wouldn't be able to pass, because of their size. They're going to analyze the stones to see what caused them - food - body system?? But, we're happy - he's like one of the family.

It's been raining here every day - the sun came out a little - but super humid. My car is supposedly fixed - this is the 3rd time I brought it in for repair - this time they said the gas cap had a broken spring. I asked them to check that when I first brought it in to them - they said they would check everything. This time because I made such a big scene that they gave me a rental car this time - I was ready to spit bullets. I told them that if they didn't fix the car this time "I would go postal on them" - the manager laughed, he said I was kind of tiny to threaten all the guys in the shop.

Hoping For.....I'm wondering about the little girl also.

Well all is ok - I'm going to sit down and watch tv with my hubby.

Take care.

Hi everyone
I dont have much time but wanted you al to know that the little girl is back with her dad and grandmother thank goodness. There is a language barrier but from what I understand the mother was not cooperating with custody arrangements so the dad has sole for a year? Anyway she was estatic as you can imagine. What a relief! The mom is having another baby with this alleged sex offender so he will b ein her life now forever...not good.

Everything is going well here and I promise to catch up tomorrow. Have a great night!~
HF

Hi everyone
Has anyone heard from Mama? I havent seen her here in a while.

Anyway everything is going well here. I threw H a big birthday party this weekend and he was totally surprised and thrilled. I have been so busy getting ready I havent had time to think about the A and that has been a really turning point for me. H told me he loves me more than he ever ( I think because I am finally showing some normal behavior ).

We go to MC today. I need to talk about the forgiveness thing. Finally I feel ready to forgive him but I am holding back. I wonder if this M is worthy of forgiveness sometimes. We have so many good things but still I always thought Ms with this in them were a joke. Now I have to live with this the rest of my life and change the things I have always thought. I wonder if I am just punishing myself for being married to someone who cheated on me. It just seems to horrible to forget long enough to forgive.

The other thing holding me back is of course the trust thing. How will I ever trust him again. I think now he will never do it again. He has said he has learned his lesson. But when we got married he never thought he would cheat. Why wouldnt he now? Now I know he is capable of lying and cheating what about 10 years from now. I dont wnat to open up my heart to him again only to be dumped in my 50s for some bimbo who looked his way. Will I always be afraid of this? What if I am not nice to him some day and he runs off to cheat again?

Phew! Thanks for the vent!

Hope everyone is doing well!
HF

Afternoon everyone!

HF-Glad to hear that the little girl is safe for now--that is good news. I can't imagine why her mother would want that man in her life! But women do such crazy things for men--I have seen it so many times. Their boyfriend abuses their kids, but they would rather stick it out with him than worry about what's happening to their children. What is it with these women????

But then, sometimes I wonder if I am so different. Of course, my kids are safe--but don't I seem kind-of like the desperate female who stays with the rotten husband? I think that's my hang-up with forgiveness. My pride. I keep wondering if I have compromised my dignity somehow, you know? He's treated me so badly, and I've shrugged it off. Sometimes I can't believe it. I guess it all goes back to the way we all thought about affairs before we got stuck in one ourselves. "I would never let someone do that to me . . ."

Anyway, glad to hear your cat is doing well, F&L! He's one lucky feline--so which one of his 9 lives is he on now?

We'll be heading out tomorrow to go back to our cabin lot for the 4th of July weekend (actually the 2nd of July, since the 4th isn't until Tuesday). There's supposed to be fireworks over the lake Saturday night, a parade, a craft fair, and a "Little Miss Pleasant Valley Days" competition for the kids. DD1 wants to enter and sing a song for her talent. My money says she'll get nervous and clam up--but that's okay. I'm certainly not one to push my kids into pagaents--that gets a little creepy if you ask me.

But the best news is that I got my braces off yesterday!!! I've been running my tongue over my smooth, straight teeth ever since. It feels so weird, but wonderful all at the same time.

I'll check back later to see how everyone's doing!

-C.

Hi Ladies,

I brought home George - he's doing ok - he has the cone on his head. He smelled something awful, because he peed in his cage. I tried cleaning him with some "baby bath". He has to stay confined in the bathroom downstairs - to see if he urinates and goes in the kitty box. All these pets!!!!! Wind of costing us $1489 for the operation. Yes, we love our pets. George is only 6 - this is his first life.

I was outside all morning mowing the lawn - we've had so much rain - my husband hasn't been able to do it. I could only do 3/4 of the lawn. Then I jumped in the pool and vacuumed it. Hot, Humid, Hot!!!

It's so nice to see that we are all progressing towards recovery. Hoping For...you were busy with preparations for hubby's birthday and CSJ.... a new venture with the family camping at the new site. I know we all have our ups and downs and how we help each other - but we have all come a long way.

Hoping For.....I was just telling my husband the same thing about the trust issue....it's very hard to get that back. My husband has been working long hours on his new job - and I know this - but the first thing that comes to mind is: is he really working late? I don't like thinking like this, but I do. Years ago, I would have never even questioned him working late. I too, think - will he do this again - when? You are not abnormal thinking this way. Believe me, it's very hard to forget and forgive - you don't know how many times I bite my tongue - sometimes I think I walk on eggshells - just to keep the peace. But, it has gotten better. It's been over a year since D-Day - and believe me, it is a lot better. It will be for you too.

CSJ....Did you ever get the pics I sent? We are not as different as these other women that go back to their husbands. I think though, in each of our cases - we would not tolerate them abusing our daughters. I for one would boot my husband/boyfriend out the door if he did that and take him to court so fast - he wouldn't know what hit him. No one hurts my kids - no one!!!!!!

It's so nice that you have your family retreat. If your daughter wants to be in the competition, let her - she is certainly beautiful. Even if she doesn't win - so what. Those other moms that pressure their daughters to compete are totally different. Congrats on the braces removal. My kids did the same thing - kept running their tongue over their teeth - natural. It's nice that we, as adults, can now do this.

I think we are all working, slowly but surely to recovery. Keep up the good work!!!!

Hey everyone
Back from MC and all my kids functions. H went out with the boys which I was a little dissapointed b/c I wanted to talk about MC but he really wanted to so I said fine. I cant help but feel a little hurt when he choses not to hang with me. He needs people more than I do. I would be fine on a desert isalnd with just him and the kids.

Anyway I thought I was very good at making some points in MC today. I said I feel unworthy of being happy b/c I feel we are so scared and dirty because of the A. Now I know this is the wrong way of thinking I am just looking for MC to help me change that thinking and all he did was tell me it was wrong and that I am torturing myself. I think MC knows how I feel b/c he even said you dont want to forgive b/c you are afraid he will forget the pain it caused which is soooooooooo true. I dont want him to forget what he did to us.

I feel ready to let it all go but I just cant bring myself to. I dont know if MC is helping. I know after we go my H tries really hard to do the right thing so maybe it is just getting us through the tough times.

I also said today that I thought we never talked about core issues that would make him do something like this and MC said he didnt think there were any core issues. That once he admitted to the A all the issues went out the window. Two or three times he said "he hasnt left" which I guess is supposed to give him a lot of credit for putting up with his horrible unfaithful wife oh wait a minute that was H not me right.

I dont think he is all on my Hs side but I do think he feels like I am too upset about this and that we should be having no problems now. That and my H sits right next to me and says EVERY time. "Its so done for me you ar the only one who brings it to the fore front". I am just so happy for him.

Ok enough sarcasm! Thanks once again for the vent! Have a nice night.
HF

Hello All,

Well I'm bumping this up in time for the holiday weekend. Sorry I have been so busy at work that I just haven't had the time to post. I guess everyone else is busy too...

Have a great weekend everyone! See you on Wednesday!

Hi all,

This is weird, but when I posted the previous post, the last unread post was 6/28. After I posted this, I found all these posts from HF, CSJ and F&L . I thought no one had been on in a few days...

So, now I will respond.

First to HF, because I read your last post first about MC. I can't believe that your MC told you there are no core issues, and that your H hasn't left! Like you should put up w/ anything because your H is still around. That really ticks me off to hear that a counselor would say that to you. I understand because that is kind of how my MC was...Get over it. But I don't think that is acceptable...

I think you will get to a place where you can forgive one day, but you won't forget. None of us will. Even your H won't forget. But I am not trying to focus on forgiveness now...just trying to communicate is my big issue. I read a post here months ago that said Forgiveness will come one day when you can think about the A and not have all the pain and hurt, and you will know that you have forgiven. It comes at the end of the recovery, not the beginning.

Another issue for us is that my husband feels that God has forgiven him because he has asked for his forgiveness, so it's like why can't I forgive him too? Almost like I should be letting him off the hook since God has forgiven his sins.

I'm glad that the little girl is with her father now. Shame on the mother for siding with the BF - I also don't understand this warped way of thinking.

CSJ, Congrats on the braces...how long did you wear them? I have looked into braces a bit as my bottom teeth seem to be getting more crooked as I get older...I know alot of women that have had braces as adults, even into their late 40s and it works well.

I know what you mean about comprising your dignity and your pride. I feel the same way. Even though I know that he is sorry and all. I still feel violated. I just don't feel the same way about him and our M as I used to. Even when we had rough times, I always thought I had him. To find out that I didn't was devastating. I know you all can relate to this. The Hs can't relate since they have not had this happen to them.

Have fun at your camp. It sounds great.

F*L, Glad to hear that George is okay. And thanks for the encouragement to keep moving forward.

Next week will be another busy one at work since we are cramming 5 days of work into 3 days, and we have one person out on vacation...but I'll try to post quick if I can.

Enjoy the fireworks, you gals!

Hi Everyone,

I want to wish everyone a happy 4th of July.

Glad to see that MF is back again. I know all that you have been going thru. Wish you the best. I know what you mean about God forgiving the Ws for what he did - I get that too. I wish it was that easy for me. To forget, well I don't think that will ever happen. I told you guys in an earlier post - this doctor on tv said you should never forget, because you don't want to be in that position again - you or your spouse.

Hoping For....Even though you don't think so - you are progressing forward. I told you once before, if you don't feel you are getting anywhere with the MC, find another one. I am sure your husband wouldn't care one way or another which MC you chose. He probably doesn't even know why you are going there. This MC is for both of you - if he/she doesn't feel right, after all this time, get another one. I told you - our first one did nothing but get me upset. I could do that by myself - I don't need a MC to do that.

Drexxell.....who knows where you are.....have a happy 4th.

I won't be back till next week. Enjoy the Holiday. Be good to you spouses.