Sure the definition of success could be divorce.

But I firmly believe that to call divorce a success, it has to be earned - and in my opinion - requires a significant amount of self reflection leading to personal growth.

I read here most days - although I've pretty much stopped posting. Why? Because the focus has shifted - we have threads and threads about what the WS is doing or the OP is doing and very little about what the BS is doing, and how the BS can improve themselves.

I have very little to offer those that simply post updates on their WS every day.

Now, if we want to start talking about how the BS can recover from the devastation of betrayal, how the BS can reflect on his or her own behavior in the marriage - or how about how to parent during this crap, well then I might have something to share.

But there isn't alot of self reflection going on.

When the focus is the WS, the tone becomes angry, shrill, and very much pro-divorce, as people are encouraged to take actions that make the outcome of divorce more likely.

I remember when the refrain of this board was: Stop talking about the WS and focus on yourself.

Where is that message today? It can still be found, but its nearly drowned out by dozens of hundred page threads all about what the WS is doing.

Aaah and I want to add, when the focus is on the WS, the BS makes decisions motivated by a desired outcome - changing the WS.

This is a struggle for control that doesn't require the BS to change.

The longer this goes on, the higher the chance of divorce.

To turn the BS focus around where it belongs, on themselves, means that the struggle for control is dropped, the need to be right is dropped.

THIS is the point where the chance is greatest for a WS to decide that changes in the BS are real, and permanent and gives the WS the greatest hope for a change in the marriage and a reason to come home.

As long as the struggle for control continues, the WS will stay away.

Mel..you said..



Keep in mind though that Dr. Harley reiterates in each of his books that he developed his BASIC CONCEPTS and PLANS to SAVE marriages...

I agree with Bramblerose regarding the ANGRY TONE and the FOCUS on the WS rather than the BS....YES INDEED....

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I have been so busy at work these past couple of days, and today won't be much better, but I watned to make a quick comment here!

I am still pro-marriage, and still support the MB principles, even though my M ended in D. Occasionally I have posted to people in a way that may sound like I am advocating throwing in the towel and filing. I always try to state clearly "I am not telling you to give up!". What I am trying to help peole see is that follwing MN principals does not mean you have to tolerate verbal abuse.

I know that in the early days of my own trauma I allowed my WxH to do or say anything he wanted, in the hopes that he would see how nice I was and want me back. I wanted to win him back at any cost. I would have given up everything dear to me. But I finally reached a turning point where I knew that I wanted my M to recover, I wanted my boys to be raised in a home with mom and dad, but I still needed to maintain my self respect. i could not allow him to do ro say anything he wnated any longer. And sometimes on a thread I will see a posted who is still in that earlys tage, still allowing their WS to call them names, flaunt the other person in front of them,etc, while the BS sits home crying.
I remember the day I fianllys aid to my WxH "the things yous aid to me yesterday were so hurtufll, and I do not deserve to be treated like that any longer. You want to move on, fine. You say you are happier than you have ever been, fine. But you still need to be nice to me.
He apologized and treated me with more respect after that.

gotta run - phones are ringing!!!

Mimi, I thoroughly agree that Dr. Harley developed his principles to save marriages, no one could argue that. But not even he would say that every marriage should or can be saved. Every marriage can't be saved.

Agree very much with what BR said about divorce being EARNED. I think it's heartbreaking when a BS jumps to divorce, but that is a legitimate choice that every BS is entitled to make. There is nothing wrong with that. What is tragic is when they want to save it but give up too soon without trying the principles.

I think if the message of the board is not what one wants to see, then they need to get to work and get the message out themselves.

Mel..you said:



To this statement, I would say DUH..Of course, every marriage can't be saved..nor should every marriage be saved...That's obvious...

I'm wondering if this thought is being emphasized and/or reiterated... here... moreso than in the past...

How many threads are helping folks with PLAN A?

Is there more of a feeling that PLAN A is NOT an IMPORTANT and SIGNIFICANT part of the PROCESS?

Dr. Harley clearly says that he was concerned about the HIGH divorce rate in this country and, therefore, developed HIS MB APPROACH..

Although he recognizes that DIVORCE does happen and needs to happen, I still get the sense that the FOCUS is on SAVING MARRIAGES...

Steve Harley seemed so INTENT with me on helping me to do WHATEVER I COULD DO TO SAVE MY MARRIAGE...

THE FOCUS IS ON WHAT "I" COULD DO...

Agree, Mimi. I hope that folks are getting help with Plan A, because that is what we are here for. The only thing we can do, though, is pitch in and help where we see a need. I think most marriages can be saved if given a chance.

Melody:

I've just got to say this...

Thanks so much for the help you gave me in 2003...

Girlfriend, some weekends you almost literally picked me up off of the floor...and got me out of my house...

You will ALWAYS hold a special place in my heart...

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IWRA,

Thanks! I guess nobody reads Uncle Remus's Br'er Rabbit tales anymore. I never saw the movie myself, but I remember my parents reading these stories to me, out of a set of orange-leather bound volumes called "Childcraft".
I think I'll go hunt me down a set to read to my daughter.

[edited to add]
Childcraft, 1954: (In 15 Volumes) (Hardcover) - available on ebay. I bid on a set - for old times sake.


-AD

AD,

That is the thing I love about EBAY, you can find the books that mean so much to you!

BR said:



Truer words were never spoken.

Thanks so much, Mimi. You were a true, bravehearted trooper who deserved every bit of success she reaped. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Folks I want to add a POV and ask if you have considered this. This is the same scenario that is played out in towns, businesses, families, groups, etc. throughout the world.

People start saying "It's not the same." "When I was a child" "Things will never be the same" "It's not as good as when Susie and Tommy were running things" etc. etc. - you get the point.

Well, how would you like to be on the receiving end of that? Who'd want to come on board with that morale? How would you like to be a newbie or someone that is posting trying to help people and are hearing those comments? I don't know if I would then accept advise being given and I don't know if I would continue to give advice.

It's a copout. I saw a great bumpersticker the other day that made me burst out laughing. It said - Save the drama for 'yo mama!

You can only work with what you have so do your best. Put your best foot forward. If you don't like things, work to change them. It's MB Plan A at it's finest.
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Shattered..I LIKE THIS:



THANK YOU!!