Well, it's been confirmed... DD has to have her tonsils removed in about 2 weeks. Talked to WW about it yesterday. She's supposed to find out more info and then call me with the happs (details). I'm going to check to see if I have any vacation time yet... I'm hoping that I can take some time off to spend time w/ DD on the days that WW can't get time off, or just to do it anyway. I don't know that I've been here long enough for that though...

Kind of frustrating because if I can't get the time off, and WW has to work... we know who will most likely be spending time w/ DD and I'll be furious. On the brighter side of things, I have already had family offer to go sit with her if/when they have time too. I'd take unpaid time off, but neither myself nor WW can afford me doing that right now. *bangs head on keyboard*

Not much else to report...?

Great news on the tonsils, on your thoughts, your changes...your choices.

Be positive and pray, Inf...God works. Ask for what you want and let the outcome go...like in time off...may be you work the operation day and take off a day, then back on, then off...get creative. Be honest and direct "I don't want to jeopardize my job, but this is really important to me. I appreciate you working with me a way I can be with my DD."

You got new tools...use them into skills...from repetition.

And your family has your back this time...they can trade off...and maybe OM will see closed ranks. He's not part of the family.

I like you explaining jargon to me...happs for happenings, right? I'm such a foggy...and I get a kick out your coolspeak.

Not mocking...admiring.

I noticed in your previous post that you're fully focused on WW's gestures, expressions, movements...you divining or respecting? I see you acting respectful...holding yourself well and true...just wondered if your mental habit of going over there...tiny, nanosecond assumptions or guesses were forming in the back of your mind? Craving evidence to support them?

LA

Things seem to be going ok... I think the tonsils coming out will be beneficial. Short term loss, long term gain.

I'm still unsure of what to do about the time off. I'll figure out what's going on with that when the time comes, and discuss with with my manager what options I might have. Don't know.

OM most likely won't see closed ranks. I'm almost sure of that, I have hopes, but it is doubtful. WW holds him in higher regard than my family, and continues to have him there doing things with DD that myself or someone else could be doing, despite my requests. Only going from experience there. She'd close ranks on me or my family before him for the time being. Going from experience there too.

I use alot of jargon when I'm on the net. I've been sparing you from the extreme of it all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I figure the DD, OM, OW, WW, DJ's and all that other stuff are enough, without adding my usual stuff to the mix. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> lol I'm glad you enjoy it. Also... I'm sure you already know this too... but you didn't need to explain that you weren't mocking me... ? You weren't worried about what I would think, were you? or maybe you felt out of the loop? or something? or maybe I'm way off base? Don't know... Just curious... and if it was a slip, I'll pretend I didn't see it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> rofl You're awesome!

Funny you should post this... about movements... gestures... and divining. I think you're on to something, and that maybe I've caught on too. Maybe I wanted her to be tossing things around in her head... means she's thinking about me right? or us... and I'm holding onto hope and masking the situation with my own feelings. Maybe I was... because today I realized that I might have been going the direction I did because I want her to be thinking about whether or not she wants to take me back...

Now, here's what I really think was going on. This is from thinking about her, and not about what I want.

I think she had to do something this past weekend that concerned the divorce paperwork, and that's maybe why she was acting that way. It was the same way around Christmas time, when she found out that the paperwork was done early. Most likely she was that way because it hurt her to face that, and to face the things I've done, and how she feels. Maybe taking her anger out on me makes her feel better, and is easier than facing me and letting me know that she was doing things that concerned our possible divorce...?

Mind you, this is just a guess. My attempt to look at this from an unbiased perspective, without my feelings being put into the mix.

I'm trying... but am I DJing but even making that attempt? Should I simply be listening and repeating and letting assumptions like this go? I didn't come to this conclusion because I'm thinking about the divorce... it just seemed like the right answer. Coming from my gut, my instincts, and my head, my reasoning. ? Got me?

Either way, I'm going to try something new and send her a text message today... I want to let her know that I was listening to her that day (Sunday), know that she's hurt by the things I've done and that I care about her (and DD). Seems like a good idea...

Also... don't know if I posted this or not... but back when she told me she loved me and wanted me in her life, and I turned her down. I took a hard look at that moment this morning... Realized that I did it because I wasn't owning what I had done. I was only abusing the illusion of control at that moment. Saying "No." because I had been hurt... holding things against her... including her keeping me from "my" (really our) marriage and family. I got selfish, let my pride and ego take over. Wanted to feel better on my own terms, not because "she allowed it". Real stuff. Real foolish too. To put it mildly.

I'm working to make it right though... and that's where my focus is... and praying that I can save our marriage, and myself... Seem to be doing an ok job with that last one. I'll let the other work itself to whatever end God sees fit for me and my family.

Well... gotta go.

I'll be back a little later today.

TTYL

Inf

Yeah, I had an insecure moment when I DJ'd ya...wondering if I sounded like I was mocking...you caught me.

Dead to rights.

It's been a tough few weeks for me on MB and I think it shows in my posts...you know how it is when people hit your buttons...we have to move our buttons. I think mine is too old and heavy...or maybe, I just am.

I liked how you stepped out of your feelings to hear her stuff...consider it in another way...would like to see if you truly can get to okay with not knowing...and you can ask all those same questions of yourself...do you take your anger out on her when you're angry with yourself? Did you? Do you speak in sarcasm, curtly, or act out your stuff, to others, or only certain others...

for only you have these answers.

You don't know about closing ranks...or not...you know she hasn't, they haven't...before...don't know if or when...just know it can happen...life can change drastically...watching our DJs makes all the difference in our experience of it.

Hey, that was for me...if I make assumptions, then I deepen how difficult my experience is right now on MB. Okay. Thank you!

LOL

And you can really see how much going from your head, into hers, to determine what direction you're heading in...by seeing which one you want her in is just plain crazymaking. And habitual...and falsely safe, in control...and you are not at all.

How about your code...to not sign the divorce stuff...because you don't act against your marriage...same for knowing if NY has a right of first refusal in child custody issues regarding legal separation...and you can ask for help...because each action matters...not about how great or small...aligning each one to your own code CHANGES how you experience life...reflects who you really are...not just a reflected self of another reflected self...on and on.

I wonder if we do that subconsciously to get to infiniti or sumpin.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

And you got to your entitled mindset...wanna work on that formula again, since it cost you greatly, as well as your marriage?

Gimble says..."An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect."

I'm rehashing...not because you don't know, reminders for me. To not resent by believing someone is harming me...focus on seeing where I may be harming...respect others may feel harmed, even if I am not harming them...and know I am graced in this life...not deserving, not entitled...blessed.

Okay...that got me back to where I want to me...how 'bout you?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

TTYL - Talk To You Later...I got it!!!

I'm glad I caught you... helps me to know that I'm making progress! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I like that saying... Dead to rights. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

... I'm sorry to hear that you've been having a rough time of things...? For what it's worth, I'm also kind of glad to hear that you are... Sometimes I come here, and read your posts... and think to myself "She's superhuman... I can't produce this kind of success." Glad to have you prove me wrong, though I'm not really that ignorant anyway... just foggy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Feel free to vent here... I'd love to do some listening instead of strictly learning for a change... would really make my day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Neither you or your button are too old or heavy... you just need to rise to the occasion. So get your butt up already! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Take that break if you have to even... You've been talking about it... This place'll be here when you get back. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You know... I got thinking today. Something I've thought before, but never really pinpointed I suppose. You're right, and I thought of this before reading this post.

I take my anger out on her before anyone else... or was before anyway. Doing great not taking it out on anyone now.

Also, if anyone hurts me, I don't react in near the same way as I would if it were her... getting angrier with her just seemed to come easier???

I don't how to respond to those statements, or what to think about that. Haven't made it that far, and it'll take some deep, long serious thinking... I guess I'm just not sure why I chose her (or DD). The people I've loved most. Should have had more respect than that... I don't know. maybe I have a few ideas... have to think more.

I can't tell you how much relief I feel now, knowing that I don't feel that way anymore and don't "have to". Knowing that controlling myself is enough, and not having control over everyone and everything else is ok. So. Much. Relief.

True about the closed ranks thing. I let my feelings and predictions help me to make that statement. Note to self: stop.

Lots of irony between your posts and my thoughts as of late... or maybe irony is the wrong way to view it. Maybe I'm just learning and putting things into place as I go... hey, you never know. lol anyway... I picked up on my lack of respect for others, and a lack of respect for myself and my beliefs. Carries over to my anti-social behaviors, and my view of society as a whole. As has my view of this 2 year situation. Still catch myself beating me up, beating WW up, beating the rest of the world up... with my thoughts.

Been having an off day today... doing alot of what you just mentioned... Divining my direction from hers by judging her actions and words. Going back to this past Sunday and stewing there until I'm comfortable in my misery again. Not now in this moment... but that pretty much summed up my car ride in today. All is well now though. Cleared my head before I got here. Can feel a slight itch as I post... but I refuse to scratch and holding steady.

Not much else here. That I can think of... ? Better get to work. Feels like Friday... and I didn't know until a few minutes ago that I have a 3 day weekend coming up... gotta love that!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yeah... I seem to be on track. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> haven't read all of this post... don't know if I DJ'd or not... but if I did, it'll be the beginning of a lesson learned. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

TTYL - yup!

rofl!!11!1 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Inf,

I've been thinking about your post...you know, ruminating...where my brains makes weird noises...

wanted to run something past you about how we took our anger out on those we loved most...what you saw WW doing to you...

We talked before (I think) about our inner circle...and whoever we let into it is treated differently than those immediately outside the cirlce...and those people differently than those on our outer circle. Seems like we came up with why those on the furthest circle were treated better...we didn't act out our emotions on them...they were treated like guests...

why?

Because they could kill us. They were acquaintances and strangers...and the majority of the planet resides in their circle. So we treat them carefully, without intimacy...using bare connection...like nodding your head to someone as you pass...not even verbally linking. Our self-image is vaguest here...and most protected. These are the truly unknown...humans representing total unknown to us.

As we looked at the next circle closer in, where we have friends, coworkers, people we encounter daily...we do act out our emotions on occasion, maybe in tiny ways...maybe with sarcasm as wit...or nodding understanding, forming a comraderie...our self-image isn't as vague...a little clearer, not detailed...definite lines around our edges. And we care what this group thinks of us...where they use their brush of defining us...pretty broadly stroked...still, moderately important to us.

Then our inner circle, where again, they can kill our intimacy...hurt us the most...yet, we trust them not to kill us. They are here because we do trust them to not obliterate them...we are intimate with them...and we act out the most to them...because we trust they won't kill us either through abandonment or attack.

Infidelity breaks that belief to bits, doesn't it? So does the acting out in AO's, DJs, SDs...all contribute.

My newer thought is that there's two parts to acting out our emotions on our partners...and the compulsion to continue to do so, even when we KNOW that's not who we are...that we're bound to our code to state our stuff, not act it out, not use others as release for what is ours.

I think it returns often because we see them accepting our acting out as an act of love...he must really be comfortable with me to expose his worst sides to me...something in us which twists around what love is and delivers it in these unhealthy ways.

So seeing acts of love as partners choosing to meet ENs...and not LB...this would be one that would linger...since we have that far outer circle, when we are treated as a guest, non-intimately and respectfully, it almost turns our habits inside out...doesn't it? When we inject respect, can almost feel like we're distancing ourselves, not acting from love, when in fact, we are.

We may also not enforce our new boundaries, either, because we're feeling loved even as our partners are acting out their emotions...don't want to lose that priveledged feeling of special...inner circle...for better or for worse...because we fear the distance the most.

Wondered what you think...

And now it IS Friday...how 'bout that.

Also, are you asking kinda sideways if I think you're making progress, or how I see you? Every day we can choose differently...seems like you're back on track, making healthy choices again...and if you want to measure your progress, you'll need to decide what instrument you're gonna measure with...because all change is change.

Quantifying may not apply.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

You know, I remember that conversation now. I'm surprised I had forgotten it... then again, I'm not. Thank you for that huge reminder! That helped alot!

Confession time... Had DD over night Sunday. Always good. Dropped her off yesterday... and as old habits die hard, I threw a little emotion (no anger, only sadness and a longing for things to be fixed) into the mix on the way out the door yesterday morning. I guess this whole divorce thing has been bothering more than I have been realizing? No excuses. Anyway. I left, kicked myself a little and then got to thinking about it all for the rest of the morning... more than I should have. Coincidentally, I ran into WW at Wal-Mart that afternoon. We talked about things... left me all confused... I'm not going to get into the conversation, because even after listening and repeating I don't know what I was supposed to come away thinking...?

The only thing I can say is for certain... She's had the divorce paperwork in her hands for about a month, give or take. She hasn't filed it yet. She also found out from the people that helped her with it that I don't need to sign anything for it to be effective...? Which is totally blowing my mind!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!#$%E$^$%&$%&$%^ Need to look into that... Well... after finding that out I let the rest of my day go to poop. Talked to my best friend for over 2 hours last night. That didn't go anywhere. I'm realizing that now that I'm not hanging on every word that everyone has to say, the advice I get from most everyone is shoddy at best. His last night was shoddy at best, or to be fair it just didn't apply to my situation. Need to rely on myself more for answers.

So, I talked to WW at Wal-Mart for about an hour. Found out that piece of info and left crying. Called WW about an hour later... to own my stuff, apologize for DJ's... let her know I love her. She was crying? I asked her if sh'ed like to talk about it... She said I'd find out when she was good and ready. Asked me what I wanted. Told her, and told her was available to talk if she needed it.

Called her after I got off the phone with my best friend. I was a little wound up... she gave me the usual attitude... I forgot to just let it go (as it's who she has always been). I got a little defensive, wound up talking to her for a bit. Explained how I feel some more, and why it is so important for me that we save our marriage. Came out ok. Not exactly how I wanted it... I don't know. She told me that the reason she had been crying was that she wants very much fro me to not be sad. She said that she doesn't see how things could work, and "don't I think that she would do something about all of this if she thought she could." I told her that I hear what she's saying... that I understand how she feels. Know that it wouldn't be easy. Said I'm not asking for easy, I would just like it if we could try. We tossed some things back and forth... made no discernable headway and then we both got off the phone to go to bed. She also said that she would have me there to spend more time if I wasn't always so focused on things and could just be there to enjoy the time without discussing things.

She called me this morning. Said she wanted to see if I was normal again. Joked, asked if I'm still alive... needs someone to pay her bills. Then she invited me to go out with her and DD on Saturday, "because surgery is coming up and I won't be able to do much with DD after that, and she had thought of this this morning". She said that I had to promise to be "normal"... not getting all emotional, or "trying to cop a feel" or any other stuff. I agreed, thanked her for calling wished her a good day...


... That about sums things up.

Don't know if she'll file the paperwork. I got what I saw as mixed answers... not thinking about it until it happens.... I'll only create more problems.

I'll tell you... I thought this was getting easier... and, don't get me wrong, it has... but at the same time it hasn't. The paperwork hasn't been filed, and yet you'd think it may as well have been filed, my fate seeled with her remarried and me left to die in a corner somewhere with how yesterday went. Need to learn to better focus on things... I create scenarios in my head, and am jumping so far ahead in the future that I "feel" like it's already come to pass and that "hope" is something that has already been flushed and sent out to sea. Not all of the time... but yesterday was a prime example.

Still find myself focused on things that aren't helping my cause. I've apparently really drilled this stuff into my head... Drives me nuts thinking about it. I do the "crazy dance" then throw my hands into the air when I'm done and think to myself "What in blue blazes just happened???"? I'm so tired of doing the crazy dance... and I know it's "The Fear" that's playing on the jukebox. Pretty catchy tune, despite how sour the notes are.

I don't know.

I love her, so very very much. DD too.

Think I'll focus on that today.

Otherwise, I'll be sitting here wondering what else I'm not doing that I could be to get us back together... or wondering what is going to happen with that infernal paperwork... or us.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Posting is helping. Sum.

So... here's the deal.

You may think I'm crazy... and maybe I am... but who cares. anyway.

I owe you, and myself an apology...

The reason being...

I've been deathly afraid of this divorce.

*pause for dramatic effect*

and having a monumentously (doesn't begin to describe)difficult time (over the last day or so especially) believing that there is any hope for my marriage, regardless of knowing that there very much is hope for me and that I am making a fair amount of progress.

Quite honestly, after the conversations I've had Sunday with WW, I'm finding very little to hang onto there.

My intuition tells me that I'm creating hope in my head where there is none, and that the inevitable end of my 10 year relationship is the reality.

Now...

I know that nothing is written in stone. I KNOW that.

I know that predicting is a form of control and giving in to fear. I KNOW that.

What I don't know, is why this feels fated, and not even that... really it's just that it makes sense. The odds are stacked against me (from where I'm sitting).

I mean, there are things, little signs if I choose to look at them, that are telling me that I should hang on. and I AM hanging on. I am quite literally refusing to give up. I will guarantee you that I'll not be throwing in the towel. Whether I see signs to hang on or not, I am riding this storm out.

At any rate...

I'm making a concious decision to be angry today.

*crickets*

"What?!?!?!", you may ask...?

For which I owe myself an apology?, and believe that I owe you one as well.

However...

I'm choosing to be angry at nothing and everything.

Just to be angry.

Why?

Because it's a choice. That I know I can make. in regards to my feelings. And it's a gigantic step away from being scared to death and focusing on something that hasn't, and may not come to pass.

Let me tell you... I feel a whole lot better.

Just knowing that I had the choice not to be afraid today.

Other things have happened today that have made my day difficult that are totally unrelated... but I'll tell you... nothing could ruin this day because I'm just so glad that that I know that I have a choice. and that I'm making progress. and that I love my WW. and my DD. and that I'm trying to save my marriage. and that nothing is written in stone.

I'm glad to be angry today.

Doesn't sound crazy to me.

and that's not sarcasm.

Seriously.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <--- that was just for fun.

Life is good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

ROFL!

o/~ First comes fear, then comes anger,
then comes Mommie Dearest with a wire hanger.. o/~

Wait that's not right...

Good morning, Inf!

Thank you for sharing you feel anger right now...I don't see where the apology comes in...because we apologize when we have crossed our boundaries...and I don't see one. So I'm not accepting it.

Maybe it was for you catching yourself watching for little and large things...doing the DJ dance in your mind...and seems to me, at the end of your post today, you got where you're choosing your life, NOT based on her state of mind...solely on yours.

Which rocks.

Seemed like you got there, too, at the end of your post yesterday, too. Like you are re-orienting yourself, when you lose direction momentarily. No wonder posting helps.

You choose to love...to act from it...and not react to your spiraling fear. Anger is a secondary emotion...and you nailed that it can give us the feeling of power in place of the fear we feel first...we don't have more power when angry...sure signals we are fearing, though...and we don't want to feel it.

Thank you for the no sarcasm. I believe you. I believe you're okay feeling anger right now and I'm okay with it, too. You know it passes and returns. You know you were choosing thoughts where you had no knowledge, no control...anticipating can feel like preparation when we go into a future we have no control over.

It really isn't.

Self-delight...that's what I see in your posts now...you're really getting that how you choose to act is the exercise of your own power...your part...your limit. And you're doing it to your standards...you feel pleased.

Can you identify the wishful part of you some of the fear and anger are coming from...that WISHES you had control, could undo, overdo, redo and change your WW's perspective, her stuff? Know the source of the urge...that's how you track down where the signal is coming from...get what it's telling you, and the emotion abates.

Message delivered.

I think you caught yourself red-handed sneaking into WW's stuff...and you didn't slap, kick or degrade yourself...you saw it, stopped and came here to write it down. You may even feel fear at such a healthy choice.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Breaks your automatic (comfort) routine...and fear will pop up at any unknown...fear isn't your enemy...it's a signal to growth, change, newness.

You're lookin' shiny, Inf.

LA

Wire hanger??? My mom always used a wooden spoon, if I'm interpreting that correctly.

HA! I think?

I apologized because beating the anger (and the fear, and all the other "uncontrollable" over emotion) has been my ultimate goal. Guess I really was just unsure of whether I had crossed a barrier... maybe was looking for you tell me what I am doing is "ok". Really, I just didn't know what to think. Though, I think by the end of my post I did. That seems to be a trend... lol! I don't need your approval. Keep it. I don't want it! and you know I say that with the utmost respect! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> lol 2x's!

I'm an extremely visual learner. Telling myself that everything is alright is not going to teach me anything... Reading words that I wrote to tell myself, especially here, will teach me the lesson i need to learn. I just have to remember to take that lesson learned home with me. That parts a little tougher. Hope I'm not using this place as a crutch... yikes. or double yikes coming here to get what I want. I don't know. I guess it really just boils down to knowing my stuff is easier here than it is trying to apply it to real life situations.

I'm tired of doing the DJ dance. It's wearing holes in my "soul(s)"...

Love is control. having a hard time escaping that... especially since I didn't kow I was doing it. and really really really didn't know that pushing all of my emotion on her was wrong. Even if it wasn't directed at her. Ouch. Seemed like love to me. Love with intensity. Who knew?

"Can you identify the wishful part of you some of the fear and anger are coming from...that WISHES you had control, could undo, overdo, redo and change your WW's perspective, her stuff? Know the source of the urge...that's how you track down where the signal is coming from...get what it's telling you, and the emotion abates."

Holy crap!!! Do I wish I knew??? The only thing I know is that I am and have always been excessivley emotional in regards to anything to do with my relationships, but never so much as i have been with her. Otherwise I'm ridiculously mellow, and have total control over my emotions, feelings and have huge amounts of will power. I just can't seem to do it with the one thing that matters to me the most. and maybe that's the problem... that it matters so much? but why? Maybe because love, and being that close to someone is the most addictive feeling ever? and she is amazing (2 me)! Maybe being so easy going stunted my ability to handle emotion on any huge level....? Maybe I'm getting somewhere? Maybe I am??? WOW?

I don't know?

and you know... the first real over emotional relationship I ever had was with her! I mean it was intense!!!!... so maybe I learned how to handle emotions from my experiences with her??? prior to that I had kind of just chalked everything up to people will be people, and they make mistakes but you forgive them... because when people in my life made mistakes I forgave them, no matter how big... like my Dad's abusive drinking and stuff (not to us, but my Mom). I don't know. I always thought I had a big heart... then my WW crushed it repeatedly... I didn't know how to handle that... so i taught myself a few very poor lessons on how to express fear and anger since I'd always just bottled them up before...

Wow! I don't know.

Mommie Dearest was the what Christine called her mother, Joan Crawford...a little old reference there.

Just popped out.

I had the wooden spoon and the flyswatter. I can relate. Oh, and a brush or other stuff handy.

Thanks to your posts, I can say with clarity...CHOOSE a different goal...

Making not feeling (not getting our signals) a goal is really unhealthy and VERY usual. We grow up wishing we felt different stuff...easy to see that as a goal...to live without regret (which is a signal, too)...as they say.

My chosen goal is to not act from my anger, to not react to my fear...to feel them, instead. To trace and know...and I believe, when you wrote down your anger, (verbally expressed) the anger dropped.

Then you can focus back on your belief she's doing/thinking/believing/it's-all-ending and the anger rises again.

Stinkin' thinkin'...I say Mimi_Here say that.

I like it. (Maybe it's an Oprah or Dr Phil saying?)

Anyway...have concrete goals...to act from your code, let go the outcome, stay present and aware...those are goals. Your feelings are...your feelings. They just are.

Don't beat, fluff, fold or otherwise distort or attack them. To do so is to beat, fluff, fold, distort or attack your self. Makes you a human doing, not a human being, doesn't it?

And you KNOW you love to do, do, fix, get over, go around, get there already...doncha?

You wanna know my opinion? Ask me. "Do you think I'm doing okay?" I'll answer. With my opinion. Not fact. You tell me...your job to discover, know and share. Mine to listen...and to within myself, to discover, know and share.

"I'm tired of doing the DJ dance. It's wearing holes in my "soul(s)"..." <---I love this...I'm gonna be quoting you.

What if coming here isn't a crutch or a cure...what if it is you holding yourself accountable to someone/something...in this case, to staying honest?

Are you having an A right now?

Are you crossing your marital boundaries?

Are you using WW's actions to justify yours, something you are doing you think poorly of yourself for?

Are you willing to write lies here by omission? Do you want an accomplice in your self-deceit? Because you know I can't be one...even unwillingly...I won't comply.

Here, you face yourself...can be boring, exciting, freeing, intimidating, painful...sounds like what you're saying...and each time tells your brain this is what you want...to face and know yourself...and doing so repeatedly, becomes habit.

As you experienced earlier this year, habits do NOT protect us...they can go from being a daily habit to none through the exact same process...choosing to cross your boundary of honesty to yourself and others repeatedly teaches your brain that this is what you want...and that honesty is NOT a boundary...how self-deception takes hold and spins the fog.

Accountability partners are a great way to go...because that teaches your brain that this is what you want...to know you're accountable, honest, questing...and the partner can't fail you...because they really have no power...just presence...a witness...so you still are the one doing it...your responsibility doesn't change...just becomes more of your life experience.

Now...there's a real life place for accountability partners (called sponsors)...and I advised it before...and you declined. I sooo wanna call you 'fraidy cat right now.

Al-Anon...there's also ACOA...adult children of alcoholics...

Where you learn much of what I've shared with you...about your why's (and you don't think your first intense relationship wasn't in infancy?)...and now's...and why your why's from then are in your now's at times...and how to recognize when you're making old into new...and new into old stuff.

How good do you want your life experience to be, Inf? You want, okay (safe), good (consistent) or WOW! (amazing)?

Switch your goal from controlling your emotions to controlling your actions...and pick what kind of life experience you really want on this earth...then make a plan, full of actions and inaction...and go for it. Let the feelings come...to be felt, known, understand...

and thrive your tushie off.

You revoke your permission to ACT OUT your emotions...like fear/anger...and permit yourself to speak of them...to know and share verbally. Expressed verbally...not acted out.

No bottling...every signal you do NOT get, trace and understand comes back stronger and stronger...you are DEDICATED in delivering signals to yourself until they can get all the way through to you...work on receiving them, not bottling...that's how you free yourself of your own stuff controlling you.

So you can BE in control.

And love, freely. From choice.

It's not about the alcohol...it's the behaviors. Even if they were your great-grandparents, grandparents...they are handed down...the behaviors continue...without the same source...don't look at the big, hairy, loud OZ...look at the man behind the curtain.

He has a wire hanger.

LOL

LA

One last post before I leave for the day to say...


I still don't know?

If I did, maybe I'd stop predicting that my marriage is over... but my instincts still tell me I'm right in believing that it is. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <:(

Like I said (and say alot)...

I don't know.

Guess that'll have to do for now.

Whatever. Works.

Have a good night.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Whatever is real.

You don't know. Okay not to know right now.

Right back atcha...and may you have a wonderful TODAY, sir.

(Saying that 'cuz I'm thinking you won't read this until tomorrow morning.)

LA

Hmmm... reading your post, and not reading mine again... makes me realize, or reaffirm that my post was more of a raw thought process, than a refined conclusion.

Posted a huge post... with some rants... and other stuff... explanations and whatever. Didn't feel very productive... more like a vent... which is not what I'm here to do. Obv. more like, DUH!

So, getting back to my center, my focus... and crud if I can't just stay there all the time.

Had a customer stop in to drop off paperwork, asked for me by name. Scared me to death! I started to panic inside... thought I was getting served... kept it cool until he left, then left the room and started breathing again... came back when the shakes were gone. Haven't been that afraid in quite a while.... Don't miss that. I'm ok now after a short short while... experience wasn't real. No paperwork here. Just me. and I made it through. still alive, still me. Atleast now I know kind of what it will feel like if it happens.

You pinned me for scaredy cat...? Yeah... that would be one reason, and afraid for many. Also, skeptic... did couseling once when youngerish one time... for nervous ticks. talked, got hooked up to "stressometer"... they said nothing wrong, or couldn't pinpoint the issue, or was typical stuff. Stopped going because after a time I was able to sort things out for myself. Plus, talking only confused me... and I didn't come away learning much. I'm a visual learner... which is why I've been hesitant. Coming here helps me. Guarantees results. Talking to people, friends, family, counselors... hasn't helped in the past or worse. I don't need worse right now... I have been considering it on and off. Because you take the time to suggest it and I want to respect the time and effort you devote to helping me. Not refusing... just putting off. I don't want to go, then give up on the idea over one bad experience. I want to be ready when I take steps, and ready to do them right... not get frustrated and quit. Knowing me, I'd refuse to get back on the horse right away, if at all. So... I'm sure it won't be a big deal and I'll owe myself an apology later. Don't know what else to say... other than I know I'm being stubborn and refusing to do anything about it for now. It bothers me to not do these things that you suggest... alot. I do some of them... journaling, excercises of mind, listening repeating... other stuff too. Others like this Al-anon I put off, some I forget, or don't have time for immediately. Seems I have time to make excuses though, and certainly don't forget that. I don't know. *throws hands in air*

Love Wizard of OZ! Flying Monkeys are cool! just everything about it was cool!

The man behind the curtain...? too late... I've already turned around, high "tailed" is and jumped out the window like a "coward".

LOL.

and so, what is your opinion then... ?

and I have to say... I'll have to read that post twice or so because you lost me for a minute there... ROFL!

So... gotta make this quick... for now. Busy day. Which is a shame because today is one of those days where I have alot to get out...

To make it quick.

WW, DD and I all went roller skating on Satuday together. I know DD and I had a good time. Don't exactly know if WW did for sure. To be honest, I was too afraid to ask. The best I could muster was a Thank you for going later on.

It was fun to be sure. WW and I talked on and off... to be honest... it was weird. It was like throwing two shy people together on a blind date... if I had to compare it to something. We talked, and everything was normal, but you got this funny feeling that we were trying too hard for one reason or another. Both of us acting a little goofy, making faces, joking around. Fine the next. Then looking off in other directions because of the akwardness.

She shot "witty/humorous"sarcasm at me every now and again. Laughing out comments about personal space then shoving me on the skate floor, or telling me she heard that someone in my hometown was arrested for stealing on the job, and she hoped it was my second OW and laughed. Or commenting about how I might think that the pop artist that was there pushing her album was attractive, but her music wasn't good.

Then she gave me tickets to an AHL Hockey event tht DD got from B&G club so we could go while she was at work last night.

Talked to her fine all weekend.

She joked that it's the first time I had not been weird in 2 years, and that she'd probably pay for it later.

We both have to appear for a Court/Insurance appt. tomorrow morning. Waiting to see how that goes. Then on the first DD has her surgery coming up, I'll be spending my following 1 or 2 visitations at "their place" until she recovers.

So... do you know where I am going with this?

Take a guess.

If you said "I'll bet you are scared out of your gourd!!!" you would not be mistaken.

We're getting along, and I'm freaking out just like last time it happened. *AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!*


Reading into things... thinking that she's trying to dupe me into a lets be friends, and now that you are comfortable I'm going to divorce you position... 'cuz we know I'm just testing you to make sure you'll get through it ok. Why, you ask? Because I care about you, but... meh... not enough, and you'll be fine because you were freaking out before, and have been on and off for two years, but manage to be fine again every time... and since you're comfortable, I'm comfortable and don't look now, but you've been served.

... and right now I'm tempted to feel like what's left of a stick figure after a safe has been dropped on it. You know, the ones that run around in circles trying to dodge the shadow around their feet, eventually escaping it's boundaries, only to find out that it hits them anyway. I can pick myself up off the ground and walk away, but I'm all bent up like an accordian and stumbling away dizzy (with x's for eye's and missing teeth and that big ol' loopy grin) like I just got creamed by a truck... or a safe. Heh. because you'd swear that I swear that I think that is going to be what happens... It's that Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you... kind of feeling. leading up to the whole stick figure thing.

Wacky.

Otherwise, I'm hanging in there. Typical day. All that good stuff.

Oh... wondering if you are still here? It's about that time isn't it now? Hope you see this post before you take that break... I'd like it for my own piece of mind if you knew that things were taking a turn in this direction... Maybe have you throw a bit of sagely advice before you go do your thing.

I'll have to wait and see I guess.

?

check back later.

Inf

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA... read the last sentence in red, then come back and read the rest of this post... Thanks

I've made too many mistakes, pushed too hard and have been too emotional and too afraid for too long. I've come to the decision that my marriage is ruined and that I don't have any hope for saving it now. The only thing I have left to do now is to better myself for my sake, for DD's sake, and for the sake of letting my WW wander the rest of the way off of the path we were walking together so that she can get on with her life.

She doesn't love me the same, she has the divorce paperwork and is going to file it. She isn't going to love me the same so long as I keep having these emotional issues and am holding so tightly to our relationship. I've not been able to bring myself to stop enough to make a difference, and even if I could it's too late now.

She wants to get on with her life, and I'm holding her back and/or just making it difficult if not next to impossible for her to do that.

The sad part is that I'm so fixated on making it work between her and I that I'm still looking for reasons why this can be corrected. Clawing for hope. I think it's beyond hope now though... I think I'm just obessesed and in denial.

I want to say that I'm only having a bad day, that I'm giving up because I just finished a conversation with her that went horribly wrong. That I've only led her to believe that I'm psychotic, or obsessed, and not the same person she married and won't be anytime soon, oh, and a cheater that can't be trusted, even if she doesn't truly believe that... but can't trust me because truthfully she never trusts anyone.

I cried histerically. Told her that I can't forgive myself for the things I've done without fixing what I've done and saving our relationship, that I can't live my life normally without them, that I'm destroying their lives and my own with the things I'm thinking and doing and no matter how hard I've tried I haven't been able to stop these patterns over the last two years.

LA... I need to know what I'm doing wrong. I understand that what I'm doing is wrong, and I know what to do to fix it... and everything sounds great, and I try extremely hard to put myself in a position to understand all of this. But something is holding me back... something inside me, some insanely strong belief, or idea, or something has me obsessed with fixing my marriage and every single time it looks like that isn't going to happen I fall apart.

I remember one time you told me that you had given me everything that you had, and that I may be beyond your expertise. I refused to believe that, because I know I'm a good, smart guy at heart and really believe in the things you share with me... but I'm starting to think that maybe I do need more help than you can offer me. I need to find understanding, acceptance, strength, courage... and I need to figure out why not having a thriving marriage and living with my wife and daughter has been eating away at my soul to the point where I've been dragging everyone down into this pit with me... and stacking the bodies up beneath my feet so that I have something on which to climb out.

I really did lose it back when all of this started... had a nervous breakdown, flipped a switch and hated everyone and everything that stood in the way of my happiness. Then woke up and saw the results in my life and the lives around me... and have been obsessed with trying to take it all back since. In reality, I think something has been missing from my life for quite some time now. Well before all of this. I think my real problem is that I've been searching for my entire life for a sense of purpose, for a sense of belonging, something that tells me that "this is why I'm here, this is what God intended for me... this is who I really am and this is what is going to carry me through my life and give me fulfillment at the end of my time here."

The only thing I've found so far... is spending the rest of my life loving, and being loved by her. I've never felt so alive than I have when I'm with her. I don't care about how good or bad it's ever gotten. In the end it's been about her since the day I've met her. It's what's right for me. Everything else other than her and DD is second rate.

Cheating is not who I am... and I don't make it a habit of hurting people. Quite the opposite. So why am I consistantly hurting her...? Obviously because I'm just *bleep* to the walls obssesed with her, and tearing myself apart over the idea of not having her by my side. Letting myself be crushed by the idea that she doesn't feel the same way... ?

I don't know.

I am so lost today.

I'm also sick with a nasty cold or something, didn't sleep at all last night and had that court appointment and none of any of this has helped today. Having to sit there and hear the judge ask her if a divorce is pending, and have her say yes it is and that she has but to file the paperwork yet... that's what did me in today. That was a blow I hadn't prepared myself for, and I'm only so strong as of yet.

I need more time and time isn't something that I have. I need to get off my a$$ and just do what's right, regardless of what happens between her and I... because it's probably already too late anyway.

Even if we divorce, I'm almost positive I'll always love her the same. If I do... what do I do? Start a new life and with someone else some day and feel guilty for it... and not ever be fully commited to that person. Or do I live alone, trying to find a way to accept what I have done and the way things will be... and live and die in regret?

because I really don't know what my choice C is at this point? Acceptance and having patience to see what life brings me? Sounds great... now someone please explain to me just how I'm supposed to bring myself to that conclusion... because I'm lost.

What a day...

This has been some rant hasn't it?

and I've really messed up yet again.

Forgiving and believing in myself seems to be becoming increasingly difficult.

LA... everything I write here is a part of me. My joy, my pain, my feelings, my beliefs... my life... spilled onto pages and pages...

but take away all of this... and I only want one thing. To live my life happy, and die without regret regardless of what happened in my life when I was here.

I don't know...

You know what... forget that I said all of this... because in the end I don't have the answers... because in the end I found my answers, right after I threw them away. Time to start looking again...

I've been making all the wrong choices for so long, I've forgotten how to make the right ones.

Given up hope for making myself happy, and putting my happiness in the hands of others.

Don't mind that either.

This next statement is the only one that matters...

[color:"red"] I'm spending my days... thinking I've lost myself in this fantasy I've made my life... by having desperately tried to make my life. I'm living in past mistakes... and future fears and regrets... when I only need to open my eyes to see that I am me, and that I am right here and in the now, and that this is the only reality. [/color]

If there is ever a time to start truly living, there is no better time than the present.

It's my time.

Inf

Don't really know what to say today...?

Figured it out.

I'm trying to figure out what I'm supposed to be doing right now. That's me, obsessing over how to fix things again. I guess I feel like crap for everything I've done, and I know that "sorry" isn't enough.

Really, I know that the best thing I could do for myself and everyone else is just keep working on me.

I think the last several days or so has been kind of another wakeup call for me. Having the severity and consequences of my actions laid out in front of me to see has been a trigger of sorts. I really have been so obsessed with fixing my marriage that I was driving myself, and everyone else nuts. I think maybe until now I wasn't able to find a way to seperate the idea of fixing myself, and fixing my marriage, and letting one possibly help to do the other. I've been freaking out off and on regularly about it all. Mad, sad, afraid, hurt... all over the place emotionally and to extremes because I was too focused on the problem to see the solution and getting nowhere, and if I did make progress I'd mess it up again because I wasn't working on and/or fixing the right issue.

Well... I suppose that I've learned another lesson, or maybe I've had a reaffirmation of that lesson... anyway... I believe I'm ready to do something with it. I don't know... I guess something just feels different today. Maybe I somehow found what I needed to come to terms? and as is par for the course, and how I wound up in all of this mess in the first place... it was after I'd already made a gigantic mess of things because I couldn't let go of the problem and the things I had done to cause it. I guess if I had been working on fixing me, then I could have better come to terms with what I had done and how I felt and what was happening because I would have seen some real progress that wasn't going to disappear on someone elses whim. Probably wouldn't have gotten stupid and hooked up with the other OW either... I'm fairly confident of that. Which was obviously the straw that broke the camels back.

So... one of my goals is to make sure that this doesn't happen again by finding the solution to my problems, accepting it, and not obsessing over it. I'm going to try to not force things to become "fixed" anymore. I'm going to focus more on me and the things I CAN change, and not on everyone and everything else that I CANNOT.

Sounds like a plan.

Guess that's all I've got for now.

I'd really like to go home and crash... I've been sicker than poop the last several days and need some R&R.

DD's surgery is tomorrow too. Don't think I can go because I'm sick, so I'll probably stay home during that time in case something happens and I absolutely have to be there... unless WW calls and says that the doctors give her an alternative.

Later.

Don't have much to say. I guess I'm only good at talking to myself when I'm not paying attention to the fact that I'm doing it... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

DD seems to be doing good. I haven't been able to see her yet. Still sick. I've been calling every day to check in.

Went out and got them part of their V-Day presents the other day.

WW hasn't had two words to say to me in regards to anything other than DD...

Not much else going on.

Last night my bestest buddy and I spent a bunch of hours yacking about none relationship stuff and burning all of my favorite songs onto CD-R's. Songs I've wanted for years, but haven't taken the opportunity to get. 26 or so songs altogether. Talk about sunshine and rainbows baby! Score!

guess that's it...

later

Nothing to report really.

Saw DD on Sunday... Finally! She's doing very well! I was very glad to see her, and we had a great day together all in all. Always glad to see her...

WW has been avoiding talking to me lately, or something along those lines I think. I don't know... It's almost like she's pretending I'm someone she barely knows or just met or something... I don't know. There's something going on there, and it's been happening more and more. I guess she's probably prepping herself for who knows what, or maybe this is some technique they preach about in that fricken (sorry) book she got. I really couldn't tell you. I don't like it... feels like she's slipping away... pretending there was never anything there... trying to let go. I may say something about it. I don't know. Not sure what kind of response I'd get. Maybe "None of my business", or "get over it", or " I don't know what you're talking about", or "you don't know what I've been through". All good stuff. <--- note the use of sarcasm there. I really don't see the point in saying something. That would just be pushing. I'd just as soon talk to her like normal and let things work themselves out to whatever end... which is what I should have done right along. Duh. I can't begin to list all of the mistakes I've made, nor would I want to. No point in that. Don't know where I was going with that...

Still don't believe that there is hope for us anymore. But... if that's the way it has to be then so be it. Not that I've given up trying. My feelings for her haven't changed. Still praying. I just don't see it happening though... so I don't look. Instead I've been finding things I enjoy doing to pass the time. It's been working great for me really lately. Though, I don't think that it's the things that I'm doing that are working so much as it is my state of mind. Acceptance is a great tool and does it's job well. Not that I've accepted the idea of there not being any chance for WW and I. Rather, I've accepted that I can't force it if it's ever going to happen. The odds are heavily stacked against me though. Yet I'm trudging along... waiting to see what happens, and not thinking about it in the meantime. and really I'm not. Lesson learned.

I'm doing fine. There's alot of back and forth in my life right now. Good, bad and in between. I'm just coasting along, living, enjoying myself and taking things as they come. Feeling pretty relaxed.

I don't know. Not much more to tell.

Still not used to this talking to myself bit, but that's ok. It works.

later.

Hey, Inf...look at you...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Have you done a full amends on your last A? If you have the habit of obsessing...why not obsess on your own stuff? Why you shot her down, cheated on the marriage again...what made you really end your A this time...would go a long ways in settling your obsession on what you don't control, I think.

Just my guess.

Sure would go a long way on the road to self-forgiveness...only get there through ownership, not blame, not beatings. Did you really ever get there for the EA?

There you are looking at odds--reaching for straws, maybe even, straw arguments inside yourself. Well-treaded road...I think you're getting tired of pacing that section of yourself...what do you think?

Change your mental scenery...shift your focus. No more trudging...you're getting ready to fly.

Want to commit to one hour a day on the amends list? Did you bring DD a tub of ice cream, btw?

Did you give them their Valentine's Day presents yet?

I love to hear about presents.

LA