Loni, just thinking of you. Let us know how your appt. went today. Take Care.

Who do you miss vs who you have to talk with? 2 different characters? Remember that. Alter your convo to match the character whom you are speaking with. Don't tell the WS things you want your H to hear. Remember the WS is not your allie (sp???).

L.

I talked with Jennifer last night and it went pretty well. She told me that she believes that my WH is still in the A with the OW. Timing is pretty coincidental. Her D was final on the 7th and my DD told me her dad filed for D on the 8th. He swears up and down that he isn't with her but his words don't carry any weight. Also, he is wanting me to have everything. His way of getting the D done quickly so he can be free?

Jennifer wants me to do a really strong Plan A for a month. During that time, I can start writing my letter. She doesn't want me to go to plan B until I have talked with her. It seems that right now I have to sit back and wait for the OW to start LBing.

My DD15 isn't holding up as well as she was putting on for her dad. She laid in my bed last night and just cried and cried. She asked me all the questions that only her dad has the answers for. I just held her and told her that I loved her and that her dad loves her. I told her that I am not giving up just yet but her dad has to make his own choices. I also told her that I want her to show her dad love and respect but it's not fair to him or her to hide her true feelings from him. He needs to see for himself that this is hurting all of us. I just told her that honesty goes two ways and be honest with her dad about her worries and feelings.

I packed all of my WHs clothing up for him yesterday. In true Plan a form, I folded his clothes neatly before putting them in the bags. I asked my WH about delaying the divorce and doing a seperation. He says that he is done. He tells me not to make this harder for him and just to follow through with the divorce. I told him that I don't agree with the divorce and I don't want it. I asked him if I had been a good wife and he told me that I was a wonderful wife but he just feels that there has been too much damage to overcome. That the loss of trust won't be overcome either.

Just now, I had a huge wave of grief wash over me. I have to remember that I can do this. I just have to get through today and worry about tomorrow when it gets here.

Loni

Loni, WS like to swear on everything, even there kids. You know that doesn't hold much wieght.


Loni, get him to write this down and take him up on this offer...NOW! Trust me, he will change his toon soon and start being a jerk and asking for more.


Listen to Jennifer as she knows her stuff.


Your daughter needs you now more than ever so focusing on her will help you take your mind off what is happening with you WS.


Loni, how long until trust becomes an issue with a R built on lies and deceipt? That is just fog babble. My WW "trusts" OM who had a workplace affair with another woman before my WW. He had an affair with a married woman and lied to his manager about it. When lies are eventually revealed the ugly truth is there cannot be trust built from an A.


These will slowly get better with time.
Please try and stay strong.

I met with my lawyer today. He didn't paint a very pretty picture. He read the divorce papers that my WH filed and the letter that my WH drafted for me via his lawyer about how he wants me to keep the home and kids and to help pay his share of the bills until the D is final. My lawyer came up with a figure that is sure to make my WH sick. He isn't going to have much at the end of every week after he pays me. My lawyer is drafting a letter to his that I agree to his terms in part and that I will accept said sum every month to contribute to household expenses. The letter will also state that I do not want this divorce and wish for a reconciliation. Then the lawyer was kind enough to tell me that if my WH comes home in a few weeks, he will refund a huge part of my retainer. He also told me that I still could lose my house and have to share physical custody of my kids. I am terrified of losing these guys. I can't imagine not being with my kids for half of the time. I need them in this house with me. I am already losing my husband. To lose my kids will be more than I can bear.

I am trying to figure out how to do Plan A when my H barely speaks to me. Jennifer said I have to show him an attractive alternative to the OW. Then wait for the OW to LB on him. I also think that my WH is too proud to ever admit that he was wrong. He may very well regret his decision but would rather fry in ****** than let me know.

I put my rings back on, per Jennifer's instructions, and I am working on filling my day with making my home a wonderful place to be for me and my children. Maybe my WH will see that, maybe he won't, but it is still a good thing. I also followed my lawyer's instructions and took the money from the savings that my WH said I could have, bought new locks for the house and changed the garage opener code. I told the kids that I don't believe their dad would do anything bad if he could get in the house, just that I am doing what the lawyer said to do. They all seemed ok with that.

This is probably the hardest thing I have ever had to do. And this is coming from someone who gave birth to a 10# baby. Everyone tells me that I am a tough girl and can deal with this. I am telling you that I really don't know. I know that I got through today. Tomorrow, I will deal with as it comes. But, honestly, if God were to call for Judgement day to be tomorrow, I would be sooooo grateful. I know, truly selfish and shortsighted, but I would gladly skip all of this pain for me and my kids. Judgement Day would be a glorious event and I don't think anyone would be disappointed to be in heaven as opposed to here.

But, since God chose for me to open my eyes this morning and I don't believe he will do anything different tomorrow, I best get to living my life. I just hope that someday I will enjoy living it. I hope that someday, I will be able to feel happiness again and all of this will just be a sad memory. Please continue to say a little prayer for this sitch. I really don't believe my WH will return. I think he is gone forever and holding on to hope will just hurt me. I will do my best with the plan and follow Jennifer's advice, but I don't see it turning out in my favor.

Loni

I just sent this Email to my WH.... What do you think?

WH,

Thanks for picking DD up from driver's ed tonight. It will really make her feel better to see you before she goes to bed. I know that she is looking forward to spending some time with you tomorrow as well. I thought that tomorrow would be a good day since she doesn't have driver's ed and you guys can spend a little time with each other.

Take care and sweet dreams,
Loni

Well, Loni, it sounds like Jennifer gave you some good advise. And it sure can't hurt to try it. So I'd listen to her, and see what comes of it.

Your life WILL get better, no matter how this turns out. I know that fear is playing a HUGE factor in all of this, which is normal. I think it's the fear of the "unknown", that can be the most frightening. But this IS survivable!

This will not be easy by all means, but this only means that you will be STRONGER! Have faith, Loni! You can only do what you have control in doing. (And you are doing it VERY well!!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Leave the rest to God!

Take Care...

Jennifer68

Sounds good to me. I just looked for a post from LA on another thread and am copying it to you. I think it is a very good way to help children get through this -

You become stronger every time you slip and stand up. You're right. You are choosing your expectation to continue versus your belief that you failed. Great routine. Honest reality. You are enduring, living and an A hasn't changed that.

I'm gonna prod you a bit here:

"My oldest daughter called him tonight as he has not called them for several days. She asked where he was staying and he would not tell her. This really upset her. He doesn't think about how a child thinks etc."

You DJ'd him. You choose to believe he doesn't think about how a child thinks...he knows. He was a child. He is choosing to not tell the truth of his actions. That is different. That is respectful. Know he is choosing, not that he is not knowing.

"It would help them so much to hear from him, to know where he is staying etc. He just will not do it though. My daughter started to cry and called him back and he did not answer."

Parenting isn't about making the world safe for your child, but teaching your child how to be in the world as safely as possible. Please do not hand down your wishful nature for things to not be what they are. This damages children--I should know, I did this also. It has been handed down through the generations. No blame here. However, teaching your daughter to accept reality--she wanted to know where her father was and he wouldn't tell her. Ask her if her desire was for her father to tell her the truth or for him to be home where she could see the truth? Is she crying from fear, pain, anger? Teach her that she owns her feelings...they are hers. So are her desires. She is perfectly human and if she desires truth and doesn't get it, then show her how to accept that. We can't force truth from others. The way you write about you wanting him to tell the truth, well, gave me the impression you were attempting to do that to save your daughter's feelings.

The more tools you give her, affirm and acknowledge them, the better she can choose to accept or deny reality. I'm hoping on the acceptance part.

"I just don't understand why he chooses this. It is hard for them. I want them to be close to him but he must do his part."

See how your wants and wishes are affecting your children? This is a very hard situation...you may not want it to be, but wishing it different will push you and the kids into the denial side of life...which leads to addictions and depression. Your response is critical to reinforce, this is what it is, we are okay, healthy, together, living, and we don't know the future. You are choosing to be in their future. That is the best you've got right now. You share how you are dealing with it...your father is choosing not to tell you right now. You are more important than your father's choice, which is not in your control. I hear you feel sad, angry, fearful...whatever she says you feel. Hugs and acknowledgement tell your child that you trust and believe in her, solid in reality. That you're both in it together.

"I just keep telling them to love him no matter what." You are telling your children what to feel, what to believe and they will feel guilt, confusion and pain when they don't feel like they love him. And you're making it not safe to share their thoughts and feelings, because they know it isn't what you want. "I'm angry at Daddy right now. I feel like I hate him." Okay. That's what they are feeling. Ask them if they believe this to be true...or what they feel right now. Teach them distinction between the two. "Good to know" is a safe answer after you listen and repeat and they want another answer.

"I don't know why I expect anything more than he is giving I just hate it for them. I think though that after the divorce is final and we know what is going on it will be better. I just want them to get through this without being totally wounded." They are wounded. Their desires came second to their father's choices. That is reality. The good news is, they were wounded long before...even in infancy, when you didn't know they were. This is why I urge you to let go of the belief you aren't a great mom if you don't protect your children from harm. Parents do harm. The intention not to does not preclude this fact. We do more to them than the world does, usually. Your best possible belief can be to teach them how to think for themselves, decide consciously what they believe, how to change old beliefs, and acknowledge their feelings as information and not to live by them.

There are coping skills and living skills.

We have a lot of coping skills...staying busy (distracted), passing time, running from pain, wishing on stars and wrestling life.

Then there are living skills. Acceptance, understanding, removing judgments, knowledge and practice. You can make it fun, but I agree, sounds like work. Coping skills usually are more fun.



LA

Thank you. I read every word. I am trying to make sure that this is easier for the kids then it is for me. I don't want them to be scarred for life from something that they had no say in. I wish their dad could see clearly what he is doing, but I can so I will try to do everything on my side to ease this for the kids while not lying to them. After all of the lies, they could use some careful honesty.

I am very scared but I am better today then yesterday and maybe tomorrow will be better than today.

I will continue on as Jennifer suggested. I will be a lighthouse and pray that his fog is pierced by the light of truth and love. If not, the OW is welcome to this fog-bound WS that is just a shadow of the man that I had the priviledge of being married to. She won't, can't be with my H. He will always be a WS, liar, cheater etc... while he is with her. Someday, that will come back on them both.

Having a strong moment right now so I am enjoying it. I will probably have a pathetic moment before I fall asleep. God is good and his grace is seeing me through. All I need to do is reach out and H is there. Thanks for your prayers.

Loni

A good point you made, Loni. You had him as your H, someone the OW will NEVER know. She only knows him as the WS! She is clueless! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Like you said, let her have the WS. The only one you would ever have back, would be your H.

You're doing good Loni! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Hang in there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Here is ark's lighthouse post -

Your spouse is in huge conflict....

the good news is and the truth is that they are totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now...

the competition we believe that exist with the OP is a shallow empty reflection of Gods light in this world...

It is empty and lonely no matter how good the rush

their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now....though the need to go back again again and attempt to prove themselves wrong or right is strong...they do not like what they are doing...

their actions towards you, the children, the OP, and themselves...keep them from engaging in any type of real interactions...with real depth and truth

all they offer are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in their life...
yet the filling is way too fleeting to sustain them and the truth is with them each night he or she lays down regardless of whom is next to them....

they are the living cliche..of no matter where you go to hide...there YOU are...

he or she is lost to themselves...

and you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home....even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing that...

You become the lighthouse..you fill your home with light, calmness and sanctuary...

see just visualize yourself as a lighthouse...

Your offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get...
you invite them towards it...let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way....

they are untrustable right now...
but you know that...so they can't hurt you right now...they will spend great energy to convince others differently...but you know better...

you show the path by also protecting the children from their painful actions.....
set clear boundaries that the OP is not part of your childrens lives....
without lovebusting...
offer alternatives that let them see the children...but be clear that the OP is to have no access to them...
you fill the childrens lives with stability....they deserve it and need it more than anything else....

Do not discuss and or powerstruggle with them on irrational movements...seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when he or she chooses correctly....

your spouse is very lonely and sad right now..but that is OK...no one can stay very long in that chaos...it is wearisome to the soul...
and remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to the chaos...and eventually they will see that you are the only one...who stood with clarity and reason when they needed it most...


be the lighthouse....
OK that's really out there I know....

strength to you all..
ARK

That is extremely insightful. I am soaking in every word and praying with all my heart for healing and forgiveness to fill me. You are so right in that I love my H, not the WH. The WH is someone who can't be trusted and is a shell of a man. My H was good and kind and honest. I pray that my H surfaces before this divorce is finalized. I am not getting much encouragement in that direction from most of my family and friends. I am sure they just don't want to get my hopes up so I can be crushed again when he doesn't return.

I was considering asking my Lawyer to draft another letter to my H asking for a 1 year seperation with counseling for him and I will give up on keeping the house. Or at least offer to pay him for half of the equity. What do you think? Am I just beating a dead horse again?

Loni

Oh God. I don't think I can do this. I feel like I am dying inside and I will never feel better again. I don't have any hope that he will return. I have lost him and I miss him. My kids are my lifeline but what kind of mom am I when I can't stop crying. This hurts so much.

Loni

Are you trying to do some things for yourself? It is extremely painful at first, but I promise you that it does get much better.

Loni~
I wanted to drop in and give you my support.
You can do this! Believe in yourself. Take a step back from the affair stuff and give yourself some time to build up strength to continue.

I know just how hard this is. It is very very tough, but you can make it. Rest and relax will help you.
One thing I learned is that nothing big is going to happen in one day by resting and building your strength.
You can't take time off the clock of the affair but you sure can add to it.
Don't react... Think things through. If your head hurts to much, rest.

Some one told me one time to not sweet the little $hit. I offer you the same advice. Your husband is lost in the fog. Don't let yourself get caught up in everything he says and does. He is lost. You are the light house. You know you are rightous and strong. You have all the tools, he has none.

Yes, it hurts. It is okay to hurt. Take your time to let it out. Coming here to vent is great. Do you have someone to talk to you?

Do you know another woman that you can call on the phone? A friend that can be supportive would really help take the edge off things.

I am Ok. Sometimes I just get hit by a wave of pain and almost lose myself in it. The Lighthouse is up to her knees in water. My H just came to pick up the kids. Apparently, my DD is ticked at him and called him jerk. I told her that she could stay with me or go with her dad, it was up to her. She chose to go with her dad but was sure to tell him that it is only because it's her only day with him this week.

WH was angry about me closing the savings. Wow. I guess his overt attempts to look good to my dad by telling him that he left me with $3000 in the savings was just for show. That was after he suggested that I clean the litterbox that my cat had just left. I told him, in reply, about the savings, that I was just doing what my lawyer advised. I also said that if he was in need, it was still all there. He just angrily said that as long as he gets his half of all this (the house?). I just smiled and told him and the kids to have a good night.

WS WS WS WS WS not my H. I have to keep telling myself that. He hasn't even got the letter from my lawyer yet. It is gonna hit the fan then.

Gotta go.,
Loni

I can relate to your sitch.
One thing for sure is children call it as they see it.
It is amazing how a child can see through the fog and just know right from wrong when adults can't.

My daughter treated my wife very tough. That was so painful for my WW to deal with.

My WW accussed me of brain washing our daughter. Be ready for that one if you have not already heard it.

My WW was also really upset with me for opening a new checking account for my payroll check and monthly bills to get paid from.

I left money in the other account and just stopped putting money in. My WW actually seen this as me wanting to end the marriage. Of course her OM helped plant that seed too.

Me hiring a lawyer was the other biggie that OM used to tell my WW I wanted out of the marriage.

Me, I explained that her actions left me with no other choice but to protect our family. As a mother you are responsible to maintain the family with or without him.

You are doing the right thing. Stay on course with pressuring the affair.

Don't let his comments eat at you. Yes, they hurt but be calm.
You handled the situation with your kids perfectly...
By not reacting in front of them and protecting your family, you will be your kid's hero. You are already I bet.
Keep it up...
I understand the pain this brings. Surround yourself with possitives in your life. Your kids and there well being is first. You already know that.

You are right. WS is lost and don't know what there doing.
Mine don't remember half of what she did or said to me during the height of her affair. That is how crazy they are.

I have to admit I have not read up on your entire sitch so I am not going to pretent to know all.
You have given me support and had many kinds words for me. Thank you!
Hang in there. You are doing fine.

Thanks Dazed,

Your sitch has had me almost yelling at my computer screen in frustration. I am so hopeful for you and your family that your WW will become your FWW and your sweetheart again. I wish I could feel any hope for mine but God is good and I know that I will be ok as long as I keep Him close.

I went to a counselor tonight. She told me that This is my mission field. My Children are learning about love from me and how I am dealing with their dad. They are seeing me now being strong despite how hard it is and loving their dad despite how he is acting while not tolerating his treatment of me at the same time. They are seeing that sometimes love is letting the ones you care about make the mistakes that they insist on making and praying for them and offering them a different path. My children have one sane parent right now and I had better work on staying that way no matter what. Maybe that will help me when I am at my low points to hold on and wait for the strong moment to return. I love them and I am walking through fire for them. Just as I walked through fire for my WH.

Everyone tells me that I am stronger than I think. I dunno but I am trying. I have some homework to do tonight. I need to read some psalms. David went through quite a bit and his words will comfort me.

I also called my pastor tonight on the advise of my counselor. She told me that my H needs to be confronted with God's truth relentlessly. I put the challenge to my pastor and the men's ministry. He won't listen to me. He probably won't listen to them. But my H (not my WH) is worth the effort and prayer.

Please pray for the truth to penetrate his fog.
Loni

Loni,
My prayers are definitely still with you and your family. You are doing very well! I know it hurts incredibly, but you are having some good moments in there as well. That's great! Sounds like you have a good counselor, too. I know that makes a lot of difference too. Keep up the good work -- we're here for ya!

Take care,

Dulce

Hi Dulce,

I love hearing from you. I am doing ok. Even if sometimes, when I say that, I am lying through my teeth. I guess it is progress that I am not lying all of the time.

Last night, my H brought the kids home. My youngest had insisted on spending most of the time at the OW's house to play with his best friend. The OW insisted on calling my H to OK the plans. My DD15 told me that after she told me how much she hates the OW. I told her to not waste her energy on that woman. I told her to just let it be because the OW is going to screw up and we need to let her. God is on our side and not on hers.

I waited for a bit after he dropped the kids off and then I called over to his place. He wasn't home yet, but he did call me back within 10 minutes. Then I put on my best Plan A. I told him that I just called to see how he was doing. He said "fine". Funny, it sounded just like the response I got every day when he was at home and really wasn't fine. I told him that I remember when we used to really like each other and that I hope that after all of this is done, we can still say that. He said he wants that too. I told him that I still care for him and I want him to be OK. He said thanks and that he wants the same for me. I asked how he was sleeping and he told me that he hasn't been sleeping very well. (good) I wished him goodnight and sweet dreams. We talked about how wonderful our kids are and then I wished him goodnight again and he said the same to me and I ended the call. What do you think?

Loni