Glad that at least there are two of us. My ability to decipher, expunge and try to make everything fall into the rules of logic are both my greatest God given gift and my worst curse. When you have to have 2 different shrinks just to keep up with you....you know there are only 2 alternatives or a combination of both....1) you are really messed up or 2) you ability to use your intellect is more than the average person thereby allowing you to come to conclusions that make no sense to anyone.

NT

LMAO NT,
I'm glad to see that you're back on a more even keel.
Take care,
--SC

A short update...not much good news right now. I left the office yesterday thinking I had it all figured out. Only needed to give things some time. Was willing to overlook several things because I thought that SMK's email gave me a logical explanation of why FWW feels the way she does. Was ready to try and get to 4th gear of recovery but willing to wait a while if time was not right.

Then our talk last night. Wow, don't know how that could have gone much worse. In a nutshell, FWW informed me of the following:

1) I am not really meeting her needs, just helping her out more but pulling her in more directions where she feels someone is getting shortchanged all the time, kids, her family, or me. Pretty much in that order.

2) She doesn't want me to leave but refuses to have me not get over what has happened. She believes that I continue to dwell in the past and have become centered only on having my needs met.

3) She says that I just cannot have any fun. (I will provide some background on this later) but the important thing is that before the A happened the normal argument was I was boring, didn't want to do anything, blah blah. So she went by herself to an event that we attended regularly before we had kids with some friends. Had a few drinks over a few days, met OM and you know the rest of the story. Then continued this R for 9 months via long distance. After the A ran its course, I guess boring wasn't so bad (especially since I could support the family and he couldn't) so she came back to "work" on the marriage. But as you know, that work happened without honesty of exactly what the main problem in our relationship was.

4) Our kids, 15 and 14 don't know what happened. She says that if I leave, she has to tell them because she refuses to have them think that I left just because I wasn't happy.
It has been 11 years since the AE now and I just don't see what the purpose of letting others know at this point especially the kids. I know this is probably not the right attitude but I see this as a threat to make me stay, more than her wanting to do the right thing.

5) She says she is who she is and I either have to accept that or move on. I don't want her to change who she is, just to be more in touch with herself and those surrounding her at different times and different environments.

6) She doesn't feel that she has the time to commit some undivided attention to our marriage each day. She feels like the kids have to come first and sometimes after that is done she just needs time to herself i.e. total withdrawal. I don't have a problem with that, but when that withdrawal is absolute and complete and lasts typically for 3+ days, it is easy for me to read things into that that may not even be right.

Here is the background on what started the last freefall. The event that was attended when the A happened was an annual event (very large 16k+ people) that her family and ours are intricately involved with. Because that event happens at different locations every year, when our kids were young, we were not able to attend many. Prior to kids we both attended every one. It was also one of my most favorite things to do in the world (hers as well). Now our kids are heavily involved in that activity and will likely both be competing in that event in a few years. They love going. We have been a few times over the last ten years. The kids always go, sometimes I have gone and sometimes just my wife with the kids. The last contact by OM was at this event. My FWW blew him off and asked him not to come around. She has not been to one since that time. This year, it was at a location very near our home towns. Everyone was looking forward to it, especially the kids. We both had reservations because there was the chance that either of us could bump into the OM there. We POJA'd how that we would handle this event. If it was uncomfortable for me to attend, she agreed that we would send our kids with other family members and we would just skip that session. Although there were triggers abound, I actually had a great time the first few sessions...but I was really trying to find out of OM was somewhere in the 16k people. Probably even was obvious that I was looking for someone. I told others that I was trying to find some of my friends that I hadn't seen in a while (which was true also). She was really offended that my focus seemed to be on finding him instead of enjoying the event. On Friday night, the 4th of 6 sessions, I could not do it. I told her that I was going to leave and go to a bar and watch on TV. Would meet her back at the house. She went nuts. This is why she thinks I can't have fun, I could not sit and watch an event that I love because my mind was going 90 to nothing wondering if he was there, was he going to make contact, yada yada. She failed to protect me and live up to her original agreement which hurt me.

Things have unwound from there. Last night hurtful, but honest things were said on both sides. I stopped it before it became too ugly with the conclusion that this is as far as either of us are ever going to go. We are too inbedded in the way we both are to change in ways that would allow the relationship to be what it has potential to be. No fault on either party, just can't teach an old dog too many different tricks.

In summary, I am a changed person and so is she. All she wants is things back the way they were before the A. I want to reach for the sky. I have so much more to give to a relationship and I want to see where that can take a relationship. She is happy with the status quo. She feels like she already has more than she deserves. I think everyone deserves whatever is possible and shouldn't settle for less. I am personally recovered and a better person as a result of how that I responded to this ordeal. She is a better person too and has so many things to offer our relationship. Our M is not recovered and although we have made huge strides in that recovery, it can't go to the next level without both of us wanting it and willing to do whatever to make it happen. At this point, we are unable to POJA on what direction we want to take in our marriage. For me, I can be happy alone again or in a relationship that works hard to achieve the potential. I cannot be happy in a relationship that the best thing that can be said about it is that it is great sometimes, but probably won't ever be better. One that lacks as the most important virtues an absolute committment to follow the four rules of marital recovery as the most important thing that either can do not only for the marriage but for the sake of the kids, other family, friends, etc. At this point, my perception is that she agrees with this as long as it doesn't interfere with kidsm other family, friends, etc.

Once again...we are back to the proverbial Mexican standoff.

Any advice appreciated.

NT

Johnny Sunshine here and at your service.

This all sounds positive to me. You were originally complaining that your wife was seemingly withdrawing, and now you've pulled it back into conflict. Your wife is participating in this conflict...WHICH IS GOOD. Many a WS are to guilt ridden to make any demands or to allow their TAKER to step forward to do so. This is probably indicative of the fact her affair was a long time ago. Like others said, she is unfairly, way ahead of you processing the infidelity because it DID occur so long ago. It is very unfair that she wants it swept under the rug so soon but life isn't always fair and marriage isn't always about fairness.

This is still a recovery phase for you. 6-8 months after D-day is a tumultuous time for the BS as the roller coaster of emotions and adreneline have likely ceased and your TAKER comes to the forefront. It is the most likely time that a BS developes the entitlement necessary to begin their own "revenge affair" as is often seen on these boards. I also noted you both are still on AD's and that usually DOES have an impact on sexual performance and desire...maybe it's time to wean off them.

My advice, continue your Plan A type changes. If your wife refuses to grow and mature emotionally because of this you must steadfastly continue on. She will either get on board or not, HER CHOICE. You can only worry about you and the ACTIONS you take to be a better husband, father and individual. Give this a year before you seriously address the progress you both have made. IMHO, it's too soon to make a sane rational non-emotional decision about your marriage.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

p.s.-If you don't have His Needs, Her Needs yet, get it on CD format and listen to it together on a road trip. Also, I've been hearing tremendous things lately about Harley's book, Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders (which might be called "The One" now). I still need to get that book.

This thread made me think of the following exerpts from Lao Tzu's text (500 B.C.)



Look, and it can't be seen.
Listen, and it can't be heard.
Reach, and it can't be grasped.

-----

Approach it and there is no beginning;
follow it and there is no end.
You can't know it, but you can be it,
at ease in your own life.

----

Do you have the patience to wait
till your mud settles and the water is clear?
Can you remain unmoving
till the right action arises by itself?

----

He who stands on tiptoe
doesn't stand form.
He who rushes ahead
doesn't go far.
He who tries to shine
dims his own light.
He who defines himself
can't know who he really is.
He who has power over others
can't empower himself.
He who clings to his work
will create nothing that endures.

If you want to accord with the Tao,
just do your job, then let go.

Hi NT,

Funny how things happen. You've been on my mind, but I've been hesitant to post to you what I was really thinking. Then I saw this post from you last night on LM's thread:


Okay, ready?...


You might want to do some thinking about resentment. Seems to me like you're suffering from at least a mild case of it. It has seeped out a couple of times on this thread. It seems to have arrived right on schedule, too. I'm not beating you up. This might actually suggest you border on being normal, oh my! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Of course, I have no idea how a BS should best deal with resentment. But if I'm reading you right, I'm just wondering if you've even acknowledged it yet. (?)

--SC

Right on point, SC. I have been dealing with a first class case resentment. Hopefully, I have worked through some of this for now, but I am sure that it is to raise it's ugly head sometime in the future. As far as dealing with it, the best guess I have is to have a forum to vent...i.e. Marriage Builders instead of taking this resentment out on my FWW. Hopefully, I have moved forward at least two steps before something happens and I take another 1 1/2 steps backward. It is still overall a bull market, higher highs and higher lows. It is an evolution to recovery, not a revolution and I have to use some patience in the process.

Thanks for speaking your mind.

NT