I am already setting that up...a friend of mine offered to just go get some beers and talk this week. I didnt know it was going to backfire because she didn't go out. what a tightrope.

How much interest do I take in her work project. I am sure she will ask me to view it tonight...

Sorry to have so many questions her - but I am so used to treating her like gold that being cool and distant is hard for me.

is there anybody out there?

Play it by ear. Remember what your intent is, and use your demeanor to convey the message. It's a tightrope you are walking, and there is risk. You must maintain your composure in order to "sell" your intent.

Sure, help her with her project. Because you want to, not because she's emotionally blackmailed you to do so.

Just my thoughts...
SD

CL~
I have not read all your threads but you need to be the leader right now. Take charge by being the sane person. It sounds like you are trying and I commend you for that.

PLAN A my friend... Study the MB tools... They work...

I am going to re-post you my advice from last week.
_____________________________________
Hey CL~
Many of us have stood in your shoes.
This a very important time that YOU don't react and fly off the handle on her.
VERY TEMPTING it is to just unload all your feelings... DON'T DO IT.

This is very important that you not accuse her, make demands, pass judgements, no angry outburst at all!...

Why?
This is your time to learn.... You need to understand. Yes, you want answers... I know this. There is a loving way to get where you want to go.

The typcial reactions will lead to further problems.
No matter how mean and cold she is be loving, caring, understanding by LISTENING to her.
She has probably given you many keys and signs to read but you have not understood them. How do I know this?
Dude, I did the same thing.

I lost my mind when I did some research and found cell phone records that proved my wife was having and affair.
When I found out my wife was acting just like yours is.

I blew up on her. I cornered her at her sisters house and threw the phone records in her face. It was ugly... Looking back on it I know I just drove her to the OM.

Why would she want to stay with a man that called her names, made selfish demands, passed judgments, and yelled and screamed in anger? SHE WON'T...

This is what is known around here as D-DAY.... The day you prove she is having and affair.

This day is key... Remember you can't take time off the affair clock, but you can sure add to it my friend.

Read the MB books and articles just as others here have suggested. If you feel anger building towards your wife, remove yourself from the situation peacefully. IT IS HARD... I know this... You can do it?
Do you want your marriage to work???
You must become smart and understand how to approach the rescue of your wife.

Treat your wife with love and respect while you are learning about affairs and how to deal with them.

Have you told anyone of your concerns yet? Be careful with this. Don't expose yet. Learn while what you can before deflecter sheilds go up.

How you approach your wife with the informatin you learn will be paramount to saving your marriage.

When you approach her about your feelings and what you are thinking have it planned out first.

Think of a plan of action before you fire the first shot! Think of what she might do or how she will react. Have a thought out response.

Do this lovingly and let her know how much you believe in your marriage. You must be the rock and light house to save your lost wife. Do not waver or show any signs of giving up on your marriage. It is important that you don't assist her in leaving the marriage. If she is to go, do not help her do it.
Don't pack her bags and through her out. Do not ask her to leave. Until you know what your dealing with don't take actions like this.

I can imagine your thinking of all kinds of scenario's of what she is doing out of the house. Don't worry about it.
You can't control her and don't try to. That will drive her away.
Listen to her, be firm about your belief in your marriage, acknowledge her pain and struggles, be her best friend.

In doing so you may get her to choose to return to your marriage before she completely leaves it.

I know at this ten seconds you are not sure if there is an OM. That's okay. Most of my advice is general enough that even if she is not having and affair, it will help you to communicate with her and asses the situation.

Be strong... If you become weak and feel it's to hard to continue with out anger. Come here and let it out...

Learn the MB tools... GOD BLESS... Don't forget the lord. Turn to him for support as well. He loves marriage...

It's very important to display confidence while going through this, as tough as it is. WS's have a sixth sense to sniff out fear or weakness. Once they sense it, they become evil and manipulative.

You should take interest in her project, and in her. Plan A isn't about being rude or distant. Be attractive in your self confidence, yet stand up for yourself if she treats you incorrectly.

Drop the issue about the wedding rings. My wife wore hers all during her affair, didn't make a bit of difference. It's just a piece of metal. You don't want her to wear the ring, you want her to want to wear the ring... big difference.

It sounds like she's pretty attached to you, she's just under the influence of the affair. Your chances are good of you stick to the plan.

By the way, my mother could be the twin sister of Raymond's mother from the show 'Everybody Loves Raymond'. But my wife has always welcomed her and kept her close to our son. Have them watch the kid, take your wife out on a date.

yeah - i can't tell if she is just trying to use me for companionship someone to stroke her ego...and then she is going to dump me when she feels compelled to do so.

She got in the car tonight and chatted all the way home...she told me a story at her job and refered to me as "her nickie" in this conversation with one of her coworkers..I tell you I had to f***ing bite my tongue on that one...she still won't touch me... and i am afraid to even go near her...so I am just keeping my distance.
very very confused.

CL~
Be positive about you and your marriage. How can you convince her to stay with you when you are so negitive.
Believe in yourself and your marriage. This is an important part of plan A.
Be consistant is the key. Positive and up beat is attractive. You must be attractive to her.

Man I know this hurts and is so very hard, but you can do this... You have to do this if you are to save your marriage, which is what you want isn't it?

Have you read anything on MB about emotional needs?
It is text book for a WS to fill there emotional needs with both there spouse and OP.

So she is being friendly and chatting with you and sharing her experiences... This shows she wants to be with you man...
Don't over react and look for the bad rather look for the good in her actions. Second rule of a good plan A is to NOT react to a WS. You did very good by biting your tongue and love busting. PERFECT! You did great by listening to her and being her friend....

You see this is how OP's find there "IN". They listen and be a friend. They provide conversation first.
Most women have conversation as one of there key emotional needs. This is how my wifes OM attached himself. Listening to her when I was not.
You handled the situation perfect. Keep it up... Be her friend and listen to her, acknowledge her, share your feelings and being caring doing it. DO NOT EDUCATE! Do not love bust....

Can you name the ten most common emotional needs from MB?
I suggest you print off the emotionals needs questionare. Your wife is probably not ready for this yet but you can read it and complete it as you think it would fit her. Then look at what you do to fill those needs.

As it was with my wife, I met half of her needs and OM met the other. This part is a very harsh reality to deal with my friend and you must have strength.

You are doing great. You are at the right place at the right time... I think you have a great chance to save your marriage.

I do believe i got here just in time and I think i did it before any major damage was done???...thank you for all the amazing advice...i have gone over the emotional needs and am trying to do everything i can not to love bust...listen without advice...take an interest be strong - supportive. I try to laugh as much as I can. There is so much I want to say and can't. I refuse to be desperate and clingy- which is what she expected me to do. I just want to tell her i love her...but i think it is too soon.

^^^

Hey CL,

Howzit? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

hey orchid - thanks for checking in.

my confusion keeps on going! I feeel like there is alot of distance betweeen us right now...which i don't know how to bridge the gap. Every day that goes by that she has her rings off...i feel less respect and more anger - which i keep to myself. I just want to keep my dignity intact.

She still wants us to go to bed at the same time together...which I can only guess is a good sign. so just before we feel alseep...i told her I hoped she slept well and that i loved her. She said she loved me too. this morning she was all - goodmorning - how did you sleep. before we got in the car she said "your girls are ready to go" and when she got out of the car she initiated kissing me goodbye. ???????

I spoke with a friend of hers yesterday...he has known her for many many years and seen her in relationships prior to ours. He says she has a tendancy to self defeat...that once happiness is possible she often finds a way to self destruct...but he thought with me she had really gotten her act together and that I was strong and solid and he thought that was what she needed. He also said that she has never had to face any consequences for her actions - particularly in realtionships...and that she always makes sure she is in the driver seat.

I just don't feel safe with her or that I can trust her....and i don't know what to do with all of this.

i don't think I can do this...she is acting like everything is just fine...no rings...no touch...

i don't think i can do it. we are just platonic pals...and I am resenting it.

Orchid: Don't make any bridges with a Ws. Keep the gap. It's for your protection. Her actions are a sign more than her words. You will find that she can't do or look at you without betraying her WS self.


Orchid: This is not a postive step. Smacks more like a control thingy. If you were to believe that she wants you, you c/b setting yourself up to fail. Instead, step back and see if she can keep up the good appearances. Make it part of her routine vs spurts of being nice.


Orchid: Your friend has important stuff to say. Pay attention to his POV.


Orchid: Your friend has made a very profound statement. You would do well to heed his warning. If she hasn't had to face her consquences, the lesson is long overdue and you shouldn't make her fail this lesson.


Orchid: Trust you instinct on this feeling. You must feel safe before you can move forward with her. Otherwise you w/b hung out to dry....again.


Orchid: But you can and you will. You can do it because it is for you and your family NOT for the WS. Don't treat her as a plantonic pal. When she is acting as your W, treat her as such (plan A) when she is acting as a WS or making you feel unsafe (even if she appears t/b doing good), go into plan B. Let her wonder why you are not happy with her waywardness. Don't explain, tell her....I thought that's what you wanted. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Yea....let 'em wonder. WS' hate using their brains. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

thanks orchid...yesterday she suggested we pick up the baby and go to dinner early. We went had drinks and nachos...we talked about her day /my day....we watched a movie...things were good. but i am so uneasy i can't enjoy her at all. then we go to bed and there is just a wall inbetween us. She said she had a nice time. Now we are having coffee -well I am...she is on the phone with a friend from work...no suspicion- i can hear her. I am not seeing anymore strange calls or hiding. ????? now she is overly upfront. what does this mean.

This means for now she maybe kind of acting .....ok... she still has not proved to you she has earned back your trust.

See the stakes for return go up not down. Don't settle for less. When she acts nice, be nice (plan A your spouse) be be wary because when she turns into the WS (via actions or even displays WS attitudes) then plan B the WS. Don't make her force you to settle for the Ws personality.

You have a child. Don't give into a spoiled child. Do the same with the WS. They are WORSE than spoiled children. Ever see the movie 'the bad seed'? Scary!!!

L.

thanks do much for your input. I am really lost right now. it was such a shift from everything to nothing that it has been difficult for me to comprhend. She is definitely acting right now...and now I know she can be a liar - so it makes me not like her. I keep saying in my head - this is for your daughter ...this is for your daughter...because if it was just me I would have left. You have hit it on the head she is a spoiled child and I coddle her - try to make her feel good...and she just uses it against me.

I am not good at being cold or cruel - but she seems to have it down to a tee. Any tips for the good at heart?

Yes. Read up on His needs/Her Needs, Surviving an affair (both by Harley) and Love must be tough (Dobson). Setup and complete your plan A (self improvements for you), then when your mind and heart are in sync (strong enough to move forward) and she is still showing WS tendancies, identify your boundaries (things you must have or must NOT have in your life) and go to plan B. You w/b doing this for you and your daughter.

Learn Reverse Babble. U R good at heart so it will take practice. I practiced in front of the bathroom mirror.....took time and I am a smartazzz. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Others will bring in other coping skills and ideas. Do what is best for you and your sitch. I know that coddling a WS brings nothing but mistery. Keep your value up. Don't lower your standards. Know you and your family deserve better. Learn that when she demands, she'd better show she's earned that right. You have demand rights which far exceed hers.

When my then Xws demanded (like a WS would try), I kicked it back on his side and said what right does he have after what he did. When he wined about how I was using the A against him I retorted, how else should I use the A?. LOL!!! Reverse babble. Giving him back his guilt. Then I stood my ground and let him know that his family was already ahead of him and he had a lot of catching up t/d. If his family wasn't worth the effort, then D was his way out. He got the pix.

Just remember to present you and your daughter as 1 pkg. The WS may try to separate the 2. Remember neither of you could have had your daughter by yourselves. Each of you are her parent.

JMHO,
L.

""...nothing seems to help. I suck right now and everyone else is just so interesting and fun. she just breaks my heart daily and i am feeling like i can't take anymore. I have been plan a'ing myself into hating myself. I don't think i could be any kinder or more supportive. I stay away - i don't talk about us - i don't touch - i ask for nothing and i am up to my f***ing eyeballs with resentment right now.""

""I am not good at being cold or cruel - but she seems to have it down to a tee. Any tips for the good at heart?""

""yeah - i can't tell if she is just trying to use me for companionship someone to stroke her ego...and then she is going to dump me when she feels compelled to do so.""






look in the mirror, stand there naked and check your crotch...do you have balls???? punch em...wake em up!!!look what you wrote...ask your self...if your wife has a chioce between being happy with someone else or returning to a broken down shell of a "man", who would you chose....(remove any moral or ethical issues here) its not about right or wrong at this point, or being able to reason with an "unreasonable" person...its about simple minded selfishnes!!! with that in mind....did you answer the question???

she is going to chose to be happy!!!

now slap yourself.....and think about what you need to do...they say "animals can smell fear"...i believe humans can smell broken down men....

self esteem, confidence, stregnth, sense of security and sense of humor are the most attractive traits any woman in her right mind wants....if you dont believe surf the personal ads on match.com or yahoo personals....READ what most of the woman write and want and then re-read your last post!!!

being able to be "nice, happy, negotiable" with your wife during thistime has nothing to do with being weak or needy!!!

go to the gym, read divorce recovery books (i know its probably premature for that) but my point is there are awesome tools out there for recovering your "spirit" and self esteem...on the internet are great ebooks out there...if you want i can pass on a few names and authors...

im sure i pissed you off alittle by calling you a "wimp"...thats good, because that means your spirit is not dead yet!!

** i was in your shoes about 2 1/2 years ago...i was a pathetic broken down man....the journey has been awesome to get where im at now...please...if you have kids..dont let them see you like this...i did...its hard to respect someone who cries that lifeis not fair...i got news for you bud....IT AINT!!

hang in there...go do something fun today with your kids...take em on a quick trip over springbreak....its gonna pay off in the long run!

there is no cure for an amputated spirit....yours just sounds wounded!!!

hope this helps alittle...im sure i pissed off a few people, but im not a "hugger", someone else can help you there, i can tell you that life goes on and no matter what happens...it will be your wifes LOSS!!! that i know of from experience!!!!

dude...you are right. I am f***in sick and tired of her bs. We just ran to the store at 10pm because she needed stuff. The store she wanted to go to was closed and she got back into the car having a hissy fit yelling at me?!?! It kind of got heated and I told her not to yell at me and not to talk to me I didn't want to hear her if she was going to speak to me like that. Now she is all pissed off and not talking to me...fine. I am sick of her sh** and if she wants to go...she should. I am sick of being a wimp to make her happy because it is not possible to do so. So if she wants to get out so bad then get.
I will be fine and my daughter will be with me and she will be fine...from there whatever.

being upset and tired of being pushed around is normal...if i had to recomend the one book that turned my whole world upside down and brought me back to reality...it is "stop your divorce" by homer macdonald...its an e-book...worth every penny....

man for a while..i did it all...i was sick, had to take time off work, lost lots of weight, got stress related high blood pressure, couldnt sleep...begged, clung, held on tight, bad part also, i was turning the big 4 0!! talk about "mid-life crisis" and i was an overall wreck....

the book deals with the major issue of self esteem, understanding "low self esteem" and how it is a self defeating mindset...

***just to let you know upfront...i did not SAVE may marriage...in looking backward, it is the "best worst thing" that has ever happened to me!!

but i highly recomend the book...it'll help ya... it worked for me!

heres my email if you want to know some other things i learned along the way...feel free to drop me a line anytime...(i read your posts and its like de ja vu!!)

now my struggle is dealing with forgiveness....but that gets easier as time goes on....i realize as you may to someday that my X sooooo traded down!!

hang in there!

noregrets905@yahoo.com