thanks man...i appreciate your advice. Last night before we fell asleep I told her I was sick of this. that it was time for it to stop. that I was tired and it just needed to stop. i know it was kind of a demand....but i am through with this crap. Then today no change...just cold friendliness always with and very sharp edge.

Your patience is being tested and she wants to see if you are bluffing. R U ?

L.

no - i'm not. i am about done...i have hit the limit of bullsh** that i can take. my love bank is empty.

orchid she wants to see if i am bluffing how? what the ****** does she want from me. please respond quick i am about to blow.

bro...take a step back....down load the e-book....its great reading....

theres alot of anger in your messages than the orig post...just dont show her the anger...GO on a long walk...Go to the gym....disapear when she comes around until your anger goes away....

once you get your sh*t together...then its "game on"...go into survival mode...but do it from a position of power...women are much more attuned to "non verbal" body language than men are...they know what your thinking before you think it...go to a bar and people watch...chicks can cary on an entire conversation without hardly talking!!!

women dont make "sense"....but they can "sense" your emotions...(i just made that up...thats a good one)

laugh alittle...it eases your tension....women are a VERY formidible adversary....NEVER underestimate them and NEVER lose your cool around them...especially during this tough time...dont get baitted into a Domestic Violence issue....DO NOT EVER LAY A FINGER ON HER!!! kill her with kindness...but from a position of advantage...(i dont think your there yet tho)

just cuz your mad right now...she knows you are only "overeacting"...she may know it, but she probably REALLY could care less....

get yourself to that same point...you were VICTIMIZED...now your tired of being a "victim"....just be smart about it...

lose the anger...become emotionally cold and keep it "game on"....you need a friend you can call 24/7 if you have to, someone who went through this so they know where you are coming from...i was lucky in that regard...if all you have is this site...keep on it....it'll help you to vent!!

once you get your self-esteem back up, your whole attitude will change...change your hairstyle, get new clothes...(he*l...i got a tattoo and a chopper)...do something totally out of charactor!!! it'll feel good....plus...it'll make you feel alittle rebellious and thats REALLY GOOD!!!

shes bored with you bro....she lost any respect for you....stop letting her have so much power over you...

when she throws a tantrum or starts to boss you or order you around....this is what i did....just look at her....keep quiet for a minute or so...then say something along the lines of... "you're killin me baby" and laugh....then SHUT UP...dont say anything else...just look at her and laugh....

it'll freak her out because it SOOOOO out of charactor...

im at work right now...gotta go, ill talk with ya later

Sorry for the late response. U posted u told her you were sick of this crap. Rightly so. Now what r u going t/d about it?

When I said she is 'calling your bluff', I mean that she will expect you to prove u r sick of this crap. Now don't go gung ho and do something stupid to prove this. Instead, get a plan and do it wisely. The one thing on your side is time and patience. I know you don't feel like you have it but you do. The WS can't be nice for long....it isn't in their chemistry. So that is your tool..... finish your plan A, understand and prepare for your plan B, identify your boundaries and when she least expects it and when U R ready, execute your boundaries.

Do all the above 4 u, not for the WS.

L.

Thanks orchid...this morning i was in a not so good mood. I don't know if I blew it or not. I spoke to a therapist the other day and she said to hang onto my dignity....and this is all i can hear - the word dignity.

This morning she said (nasitly) you seem angry. I told her that yes I was not in a wonderful mood...and that I thought that given the circumstances it was ridiculous for her to expect that I be in a fabulous mood all the time.

She got mad...and said that she knew she shouldn't have told me anything and now we have this "thing" with us all the time. She said I couldn't just shut up - could i. and that all she wanted to do was - think about work.

She said if this can't be civil. I broke in and said civil about what? Did she see anyway back from this...she said not any time soon.

I told her she should move into the guest room. she said why should she move - i said because she is the one doing this...this is her choice. That I thought she would choice her family....and what was she doing.

she said that was ironic wasn't it? (given the situation with my family...and how I choose her...she's a mean one.) I said I thought i was choosing my family (meaning her and our daughter).

she told me not to speak to her anymore about this on our drive in...if I wanted to spaek about anything else that was fine.

alot of silence went by...and I said I am trying you know...she said she was trying too.

what now?

a couple more things...she also talked about splitting up the bills etc. I feel strong today...good self esteem etc... but i just want this to go away. I want my life back and I am hurting real bad.

I told her I have been good to her...and she knows it. She said yes...good in the way that i know how....and that now i was just being a martyr.

one last thing...i am sure i shouldn't tell her this...maybe you'll think its ok...but i am sorry - and at least being here I can get that off my chest.

CL,

She is still babbling big time. U R doing good not to let her suck you in and apolgoize more than necessary. That's where many a BS make the mistake of apologizing too much.

You can see she has the WS mentality and attitude. She is still demanding you do what she wants, even to the point of dictating the conversation. Let her have some freedom but not much. You stand your ground at choice times. This may mean you bite your tongue the other times when she just talks plain stupid. You can walk away. It will anger her but better she be angry than you lose your temper. ok?

Hang in there. Her A virus is still raging and we need to get you strong enough to fight and kill it w/kindness and maybe a touch of reverse babble. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

hey orchid...thank you so much for your help. I did sink...i paniked and called her and told her i didin't mean to do that this morning. i caved...but she was decent....she said again - i am wonderful - she loves me - she doesn't want to hurt me blah blah blah...if she needs to move to another space she will - she wants us to be civil - still be able to go out and do things...(she wants everything) - I told her i needed to think...that i am not making any decisions today.

your'e on the "rollercoaster" man!!! when you realize that you need to STOP doing what is NOT working...SHE needs you to fight with...STOP telling her you love her...STOP syaing to "chose her family" (thats trying to use guilt) WONT WORK!! she dosent care right now....

STOP ALL ARGUEING!!! it removes tension and stress...and there are no winners in that fight!!! YOU WILL NOT GET HER TO CHANGE HER MIND...all you will do is drive her away!!!

BUT....you need to keep doing what you are doing, because you are desperate and NEEDY....when you done with these emotions and stop acting like a CHICK....

drop me a line...ive been in your shoes...

keep remember the key words...DIGNITY and SELF ESTEEM!!!

hey sturgis...yep you are right...I am much more even today...and i can feel her spinning. she started being all fake and sugary sweet with me...but i wasn't up for it...just solid - even - strong - and a little icy....when i am fine she doesn't know what to do with me. But I don't know how much she even cares. Sometimes i see that she understands how much she has to loose...but then she falls back into her selfish bs. I just need her to not bait me. I don't feel like i should have to tolerate her nonsense...but i see i don't have to be sucked into her crap either. Hey I checked out that book you told me about...thanks i think it will help.
self esteem and dignity

here is a little update of this morning...any thoughts are always apreciated. I have pretty much come to terms with she is going to do whatever she wants. It is almost impossible for me to police her...because she uses her work e-mail for much of the time - she calls noone on the weekends at least in a couple of weeks...so she is totally underground with all of this.

anyway - update.

yesterday our daughters preschool teacher told her that my d was asking for me all day (not her) and asked if there was anything going on at home because she was a little whinny... this sent her into a tailspin I could tell...
she went overboard with our d. But after dinner she curled up with me on the sofa...and w went upstairs to be alone.

I got a call from close friends of ours...who I have exposed w to. I went outside to chat with them...this also sent her spinning. I came back in and said they said hello to her and would love to see us soon. She said yeah right.

I put d to bed...read her stories all that normal stuff etc...then I went to watch tv for awhile. w wanted to watch the basketball game with me. so around 9 she came downstairs...I stayed with her for about a 1/2 hour then said i was tired and wanted to go to sleep. She said "but i thought you wanted to watch the game witth me." i said nah...i'm exhausted i'll put it on upstairs...enjoy.
then went to sleep.

This morning when we got in the car...i forgot my badge...she said go back and get it. I said thats ok I know we are a little behind and i don't wantt you to be late. well she got enraged that i would blame her for me not having my badge. I laughed and said no need to yell...its not a big deal...more rage. so i very calmly said that this wasno big deal and she should calm down. she then went into don't tell me what to do...i almost laughed...no i can see her spinning all over the place and it is almost laughable.

I really found my calm yesterday...and i think the rollercoaster for me is over. she can ride it all she wants. i believe that at this point i can only be happy go lucky...and perhaps she will come back (only with some very intensive therapy) or she will just have to go. she wants everything and i am just not willing.

someone please tell me how long do i let this nonsense go on?

bump.

dude in all honesty....your rollercoaster aint even began...so just prepare yourself...from your update, you "changed" some approaches to her...see the different reaction already!

keep doing what is working...as soon as you return to the needy side...she gonna EAT YOU ALIVE...shes angry at losing control of you so to speak...(which she really is)

the reason this stuff works, is that human behavior is generally always predictable...all you have to do is read some of these sites, change 1 or 2 circs and its all the same story...pretty amazing....so that also tells you that you not alone....

KEEP YOUR CALM....

heres what i would do...(AGAIN) this is only my opinion and im coming at you as a DIVORCE survivor...i got tired of the bullsh*t and chose not to return....anyway....

work this into a converstaion..."honey, i think you are right, we are just too different and cant live together anymore, this weekend ill help you look for an apt and help you move out"......

be sincere and then SHUT UP and leave the house!!

itll FREAK her out....but understand, she may agree and then you MUST be ready to follow through....

trust me on this bro...YOU MUST BE PREPARED FOR HER TO LEAVE....because all she is doing by staying in your house with you is the ULTIMATE disrespect and making your life miserable....

she chose to have the affair...she chose to cheat....she is making BAD choices....now you must choose to get your life back and start doing things that will remove the tension and strain from your kid....she's paying a bigger price than both of you...

again...take some time off and go visit your family of good friends....take your daughter with you and re-charge your batteries....

NO MATTER whether you are home or gone is not going to make a bit of difference if she sees her OM or not....the sooner you really realize that...the quicker you can start to heal...

it took me over a year to finally get off the rollercoaster...so just mentally prepare yourself....

i look at it as "it sucks being rejected and dumped" but in the end...whether you cheat at cards or in the game of life...a cheater is still a cheater...i didnt want that person in my life....

you need to figure out what you want....beleive it or not...you really do hold all the POWER....you just need to retake it and stop being NEEDY...jsut look around you...again...take my advice...read the personals on the internet....you will see all the same qualities that women want and find attractive....

heres my quote for the day for you...i finally understood it after i decided to leave and not return to a treacherous marriage....

"we humans have a habit of standing next to a barrel full of beautiful ripe apples, and never noticing them because we are too busy crying over the rotten one we are holding"

when it makes sense.....you will beready to realize that you do not have to take the crap she is putting you through...MEN can live very well by themselves...women have a much harder time... thats just my opinion!

take care of yourself and your daughter...thats your priority now....DO NOT betray yourself in order to save a person who has NO respect for you right now....

unless she comes to you 100% repentant and seeking forgiveness and willing to do whatever SHE needs to do to save your marriage....beware of he intentions!!

hang tough bro! ill talk to ya later.

I've read this thread, but not your others. Sorry if I've missed something and this is redundant....

Is she acting this way because she feels something is lacking in your relationship? Or for other reasons...If it's because she thinks she is missing something in your marriage, do you have a pretty clear idea of what it is? Have you really listened to her and worked on the issues? Worked to meet her Emotional Needs?

Hey, cl, I've been following your situation and wishing you well, although I don't post much anymore.

I found my Nirvana when I learned to emotionally detach from my then WW. I looked upon her as a complete stranger over which I had no control. I did not interfere with her "choices" nor did I try to shape her behavior.

This allowed me to make decisions for myself without fearing fallout later. I laughed off her "babble talk" and learned Orchid's reverse babble. She profess to plan on doing something ridiculous and I'd just throw it back to her in the form of a rhetorical remark or question. (So, I guess you are doing that in order to honor our vows of putting each other first, to love and cherish and all that, right?) No voice inflection to give away my contempt for her thoughts or actions, mind you, but planting seeds to make her think about what she just said, or did, or was planning to do.

I learned to take no offense at her angry words, and just blow them off as "alien speak", coming from a woman who's lost her way.

Stay calm, cool, collected, fight for what's right for your marriage, and Plan A your butt off. It will all come together, but not as quickly as you'd like. This is a marathon, not a sprint, so learn to be patient throughout the process. It will take whatever time it takes...

SD

Oooh SD, I am sooo proud of U. Sounds like you got the hang of reverse babble. Care to give us a few lessons? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

good morning everyone...thanks for the posts...al of this is helpful & i think to some degree it is working. I am working hard to detach myself emotionally - but it is hard.

She confuses me so much and while i don't let her know it i hang on her every word to try and figure out what my next move should be.

I am staying cool, collected and fighting for my marriage...now mostly for my daughters sake and hopefully eventually for my w and my sake as well.

Yesterday...i picked her up and was determined to be in good spirits. She however got in the car and seemed very low. After awhile she eased into me and talked about her day...and a little about how she is feeling...which i s trapped. I know a mortgage, baby, new job and everything will do this to you and i know she feels lost. I really just tried to listen. She said she saw a shift in me. and I told her that our home needs to be a happy place and i would do what needed to be done to make it that way...and that hopefully in time everything else would fall into place.

She actually talked about some major stuff...like maybe buying a house closer to our jobs (with me) i thought this was a very good sign (maybe) that she was still thinking of a future with me. she also talked a little about finding a new babysitter...so that we could go out...she shared a song with me that she wrote...assured me it wasn't about us (which I am sure it was...something about lost pieces of herself that i didn't mind were gone.

i told her it was ok either way - what the song was about that she should write.

her spirits were up for the rest of the night. i saw a few glimpses of my wife.

p.s. SD - you are right...she is an alien right now...and i have to treat her as such. the reverse babble was a gift orchid thank you - i am trying hard to learn it and when i use it it seems to work well. I try to plant small seeds in her about how important our life together is - without pressure or judgements. hopefully it will pay off.