well last night she baited me into a fight...and i told her i thought this was sad...and that she was letting our family die and that she was sad...and repeating patterns from her past.

She started crying...telling me i had everything...a great job, a great house, a great kid, family, friends...and she had nothing...a didn't even know if she would have a job at the end of june.

she said she wasn't in love with anyone else...or else she would be gone...

she said she just wanted to co exist and see where things went from there. not talking about it...no pressure...and that if i pressured her she would be gone...and that she would start over with nothing she would...that she had done it before. she said she was scared.

then she moved into the guest room...said that she didn't know for how long. that she loved me but needed space. that this wasn't my fault...blah blah blah...that it may take a month, 1 year, 5 years or not at all - she didn't know...and she was well aware of what was at stake. that she saw something that could be salvaged and was trying to get it back - that why she was still in the house - otherwise she would have just left.

i just needed to shut up and leave her alone. or else she will leave.

she said she will absolutely NOT go to counseling with me.

Friends invited us to go to easter dinner. She does not want to go - so my D and I are going alone.

and i am miserable...help

I hear your misery and pain, CL...

I see all the advice and support here...that you're in counseling and are being told you're doing a great Plan A...do I have this right?

Did you listen and repeat last night? Do you believe she can bait you into a fight...that you had no choice?

Did you state how you felt about her moving into the guest room? Do you offer your thoughts, feelings and beliefs with "I" statements?

What did you say to her shut up or else she will leave? Followed along the lines of her saying you had everything and she had nothing...nothing to lose...she felt like a loser...and so leaving was just changing space.

Then she changed hers within the house.

LA

Good Morning LA....

Well actually I would say...she fought with me...I was calm and never yelled - all i had asked her to do was rewind something on tv and she flew off the handle - but this is something she would normally do - in fact do without my asking) -I think she hates that and would love for me to yell at her. I offered "I" statements...I told her I wanted to help her find her way and that I was commited to making us work. She said she felt like she had noone - noone had her back - I told her I had her back. I listened and repeated...i reverse babbled her (which worked great by the way <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

When I went upstairs to bed...she told me she loved me...which she hasn't initiated saying in well over a month. then yesterday when my D and I left for dinner she said I love you again. Twice in 24hours WOW! It was nice to hear but I think she is just scared...

When she said i needed to shut up or she would leave... she also asked me if she needed to go - if i couldn't handle this. I told her those were her choices to make...that I couldn't control or stop her...(part of her wants me to tell her to get out...so i will be the bad guy...the mean one who threw her out...and it will allow her to be the victim - which is a role she loves to play.)

Yes the counselor says I am doing a great plan a...doing everything right to mantain this....she also wants me to evaluate my reasons for staying - she believes my w is emotionally and verbally abusive...

I have also been hanging out a little with my friends...and she threw it in my face and then assured me she wasn't jealous...????

What do you know and believe about V&E abuse? I care more about what you think of your own Plan A, than others. You live it. They hear about it.

How has eliminating assumptions and DJs been going for you?

Here is where I'm hearing them...and I know if you're doing them here, you're doing them to yourself, also...which adds to the rollercoaster effect:

"well last night she baited me into a fight..."
"she fought with me" - your rewrite of it still doesn't sound like a fight, but her letting you in on her thoughts and perspective. Why twice with the "fight" label?

Again...I'm not telling you that you are wrong...doing it badly...these are difficult to cull from ourselves...ironically, the worst time is the best time...when an A is being done to you...and you have to clean out your own garbage...doing so now is what makes you keep your focus off your WS and really see your part, your real power in the marriage.

"I think she hates that and would love for me to yell at her."
"It was nice to hear but I think she is just scared..."
(I understand these...am not bashing...sharing what I learned...that disrespecting comes from protecting what you cannot...you are free to choose to not believe her truth about the ILY...I encourage you to not believe it for yourself right now, but do honor that this ILY was HER truth...anything less is disrespect)

"which is a role she loves to play" I can understand THE truth of WS...we did play the victim...only way to get to there in our reasoning...but "love to play"? I hated myself, my life and my choices...there was no love to play the victim...it was a perspective I didn't know I had any choice in.

Your WW may tell you she loves to play the victim...then this isn't a DJ...did she do that, in those words?

Last one:
"and she threw it in my face" I'm not being picky to pick apart...pointing out picky...what gets by your radar...I know your intent is solid...to be a respectful human being, to really get this difficult concept...so no bashing, CL...awareness for consideration only.

Love your changes in yourself, CL...the more you see your choice, the more you'll see hers and that you are not the cause, control or cure for her.

In your corner,

LA

Hey LA - thanks for that GREAT post - no offense taken...i really want to hear the truth in what you folks out there think - because i am COMPLETELY LOST! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I called what happened the other night a fight - because she was screaming at me...slamming doors...cursing etc. I remained calm and i know it bothers her...in fact she said i am perfect...(sarcastically) she does let me in on her thoughts and perspectives after a great deal of anger and belittling of me. If i can remain patient with her - after she has gotten it out of her system - then i can get to the truth.

one interesting thing that she told me recently...was that she feels like everyone things i am smarter, kinder, more attractive and talented then she is. while i know this is her perspective - i think she is wildly off the mark. I tell her she is beautiful, smart, talented etc...i think she is an amazing person.

Honestly I do believe my w loves me ...and i told her this. She is very upfront about things and would not have said it if she didn't mean it at some level.

This is not judgemental now...i have seen her be very sweet and kind to other folks...and then turn on them on a dime - a 1000 foot wall goes up...and no amount of pushing can bring it down...only when she is ready to let it down does she. friends have also confirmed this...her friends....she even says it about herself. this is why she wants me to just "shut up and leave her alone"

Honestly - when I am at home with her i do treat her respectfully...i love her and i told her i would do whatever i could to help work through this. But i do get frustrated and when i am here - i let a little bit of that come out. I am afraid i have been in this mode for a month and i do have some resentment...which i know i have to combat if we are ever going to be ok. So I am aware of DJ's and although this is tough for me right now i am really working on not judging - but **** it is hard - isn't it?

YOU SAID:

Love your changes in yourself, CL...the more you see your choice, the more you'll see hers and that you are not the cause, control or cure for her.

It is amazing advice - i have tried to cure her and have blamed myself ...but everyday i get stronger and i see i can't control, fix or do anything...but make myself a better spouse...and then perhaps she will choose to be with me again 100%.
thanks again LA

i was outa townlast week....just catching up with ur sitch....irealize this sounds like a stupid question...but...

how are YOU doin physically??? you sleeping?? if not, go to dr. and get some meds....they WILL help you keep a straight mind...when you go without sleep for long periods, you survive on adenaline...when you crash...you crash hard and the adrenaline without an outlet will cause MORE depression....

plus, you will not think striaght...right now you NEED a clear mind....

stay strong!

You're welcome, CL...this was the advice that changed my life. Thank you for being receptive...

On the language...I'm kinda of niggling you on the "fight" reference because that has to involve two or more...You didn't participate...can you think of another word to use? This isn't semantics...words are how we speak to ourselves, and they are important. Fight may be what you think...and would have participated in the old way...back in the day...so now, you need a new word to go with your new actions.

Would you be surprised that controlling/fixing/pleasing is abusive? I know that's the last kind of person you want to be...so I'm not advocating you becoming a better spouse...a person with clarity of your actions and beliefs...knowing your choices, which inherently makes you a rockin' spouse...but you do it for you.

Intent matters.

Yes, it is really hard...did I say difficult before? How about tortuous...yet, could be the only time ever in your life to actually see it...hidden before this huge conflict. It takes what it takes.

Stopping the DJs to your self is equally important...your resentment and frustration levels are key to coping with your new changes...proving to yourself who you are moment by moment is how we change. Choosing to create resentment, well, gets you to entitlement, and if you couple that with lack of respect...what do you have? The road your WW took.

Choose your perspective...your WW is dealing with not even knowing she is separate and equal...and it isn't within your hands to tell her or make her know. Exampling it IS her lifeline. Was for my H. Do you see where this is her struggle with her own beliefs (inferiority) and you jump to say, "Hey, I'm not telling her that! I'm telling her good things!" Breaking apart the enmeshment, that oneness we're sold down the river that drowns us, takes a strong clarity, consistent perspective, and a diligent focus on respect.

All humans are separate and equal, created by God, wonderfully made, without defect...with limits and choice, but no control over others.

Being safe as a person is really tough to do when you already seem the safer of the two in a V&E marriage...you believe you are already safer...but then, that would be like your WW comparing herself to you in the smart dept., eh? Safe enough for the other is the key...I had to get very safe for my WH to become H again...when you attempt to fix someone, you are telling them they are broken...to lead tells them they are lost...to have their back tells them they are vulnerable...with respect, we know we are capable of our own choices, our own power...and are not told, however lovingly intended, we are not enough, less than, or more than anyone else.

And we do not tell ourselves we are owed, deserve or choose to believe we can manipulate our relationships or other people, nor ourselves. Resentment is a sure sign you are feeling a lot of pain and wanting to hurt back...only it is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.

You are doing this very difficult challenge by your choice, for your beliefs...and I want you to succeed for the long term...you won't do it perfectly for we are perfectly created imperfect. Just wanted to support, acknowledge and highlight what might have looked different before.

LA

LA - can you give me clear cut examples on how to do this...see below??????

"Choose your perspective...your WW is dealing with not even knowing she is separate and equal...and it isn't within your hands to tell her or make her know. Exampling it IS her lifeline. Was for my H. Do you see where this is her struggle with her own beliefs (inferiority) and you jump to say, "Hey, I'm not telling her that! I'm telling her good things!" Breaking apart the enmeshment, that oneness we're sold down the river that drowns us, takes a strong clarity, consistent perspective, and a diligent focus on respect."

also - how can i feel safe and strong without her feeling like i am outdoing her. practical guide (apparently i need very concrete examples - sorry)

I honestly think this is the crossroad situation. she has always taken care of herself - always been the best - always the brightest star. I love her for that and admire her for that. Now she thinks i am stepping on her - am outdoing her - when i have no desire to out do her...we are both VERY successful people...the couple others always admired - we were the success story - i just wanted her to be proud of me - so i told her my good stuff ...I wanted us to both succeed together.

can you please give me practical day to day advice on this? i think this is what will save our marriage.

I wanted to write her a letter...telling her my i statements...because i can not talk to her...she doesn't want to her me. but i wanted her to know the things i know i failed at...and what i am doing to repair my short comings - without it being a pressure situation - and without judgements. But i don't know what to say that she won't feel like i am trying to manipulate or handle. your thoughts here would be a huge help. perhaps actions speak volumes her...i just don't know what to do in our day to day to prove it to her, I feel like such a loser in this respect...i should be able to do this on my own...but i have no clue.

now i honestly don't believe she is sleeping with anyone else...although i think she is thinking the grass may be greener, i want her to know our grass is green...that she is safe...that i am home....that who she is is perfect in my eyes. i want her to know i am working to be the man...the person...she needs...and that our dreams and our future can be everything she thought it would be.

LA your advice was so on the mark - and had such an impact on me - because it was real and right...i have been trying to fix, manage, and handle...i want her to just know that she is ok in my eyes - its all ok.

Sturg...thanks for asking - amazingly i am feeling pretty good...as LA said safe and perhaps a little too much so. I am sleeping...i am exhausted and sleep is a good refuge.

p.s. a friend of ours...he was in our wedding...wanted to call her and check in...see if he could be of any help to her - let her know if she needed to talk he was avialable...(he was her friend when we met) but we have become close over the years...is this too much pressure...i think she needs to hear from friends and she won't talk to anyone...but is it too soon for her to hear from anyone?

Sturg is right on the mark. I'd forgotten how difficult it was to think clearly...my goal was clarity, and fatigue was the enemy, not my WH. Working out after work was what got me peace to sleep...and even crying through yoga, as embarrassing as that was (and I was mortified) was better than crying through my dreams. Do what it takes to sleep...working out distracted me, too, though treadmill time seemed to add to my circular thinking.

Begin here...

"I feel like such a loser in this respect..." This is the DJ to self. Very important. Know from this you have high expectations of yourself...expectations are premeditated resentments (LostHusband)...you are human, CL...part of what brought you to this moment was not embracing your own limits. Revoke your permission to believe you are a loser...it is a belief, not a feeling. Failure and success sound like they play an important role in your lives...find out what it represents to you...trace it back to ENs, get to the base of those two...because that is why you have had a manipulative marriage.

Respect that your WW knows you are her love, that her marriage is what she wanted and will want...that it is buried under a lot of stuff you didn't create; your LBs are similar to hers, without the volume. You have a dance, the way you both have interacted, that you are changing. You did by not fighting...eliminating your LBs will change the dance...no greener grass (it all has to be mowed and watered, either side); and to truly elminate LBs, you must change your beliefs...

That first one is a whopper...Love is earned. It isn't...can't be. You don't earn it from God or humans. We aren't designed that way. Love is a choice you make...you choose to believe you love your wife, period. No because or attributes or earning required. You choose to love her, and from that choice, sunk into your head, like training, repeating and focusing...then you will kill the resentment you have a habit of creating because there is no earning. All within your power, your choice. From your choice, you act on your beliefs...loving acts include listening and repeating, accepting that her thoughts, feelings and beliefs are her own...separate and equal. They are hers. She chooses just as you do, so as you listen and repeat when she speaks (no arguing, supporting, trying to uplifting or negate what is hers), you validate, show choice...hearing through a filter I want you to use.

Because you've both been reactive to each other, and you are the one here, the one who is willing to stop first, you have to think up an image for a filter...here was mine...and yes, it's funny...not attractive, and I think that helped:

Picture a shiny metal strainer on top of your head (I'm alliterative, so I called mine a hopper)...when she speaks, you concentrate on repeating, so all her words go into that hopper..."I hear you choose to believe that I have everything and you have nothing, is that correct?" By having those words in the hopper, not straight to your brain, you stop the immediate reactive process...do not add to your listen and repeat as you did initially..."I hear you feel vulnerable, unsupported, is that correct?"

Your new calm is key, with lovingly neutral tones...your face earnest, contemplative and reflecting your concentration...no reactive expression. Earnest. And you'll find this comes naturally because there is a hopper on your head that will fall off and spill her words, clank on the ground with any large gestures you have been prone to making...your body gets still when you have this image really set in your mind's eye. We're wonderfully designed this way.

Next step is not to have prevented the encounter...but something I did to break our pattern...do what you didn't do before...rewind yourself...do other stuff she normally would. This isn't coddling or rejecting...it is changing your tit for tat dance. You will feel great about it if you remind yourself with each effort...I am choosing to do this for myself. I feel stronger, knowing my power and enjoying my self I care and am capable and willing. We're probably the reverse due to gender (though in other ways the same)...but I had my oil changed, tires changed...did stuff WH once did...and I did them cheerfully because I could, knew I could, and was choosing to label it self-care. Amazing how the depth of feeling unloved lessened as I did this...these were expressions of love to me (acts of service) that counted before because HE did them...his share, my form of ENs...and I was meeting them in me.

"I hear you fear the possibility of losing your job at the end of June. That your job is really important to you."

Right now, you leave the door open in her response to clarify or confirm. No arguing, just repeating. Later, the safer you become, you can add small questions. "What does not having a job represent to you?" This comes later because you have to establish your safe place again and again. Manipulative relationships breed distrust in traps...kill off hope rapidly and due to creating expectations of repeated negativity, great resentments.

This hopper will allow you to choose your actions instead of reacting. You have to take all those words and slowly, after she finishes talking, selectively let them sift down into your brain...because each one you are going to look at and say, "This is her truth, not mine" and until she ends all contact, you are not allowed to believe them as anything but...they are not your truth. If she says, "You make me so angry...always looking at me with those sad eyes! I hate it! You're doing it on purpose just to shame me." These are not your truths...don't allow them to be...do not choose to believe her truths. They are hers. Through her own filter. Listen and repeat and do not let those sayings into your brain to be stored, probed, nourished by your attention into fixation. Proof to kill hope, become expected and breed resentment. That poison will kill ya and you're worth more. She owns those thoughts right now...they've changed from passionate, loving ones, mildly caring ones, sweetly sure ones, and now rejecting ones...because she's rejecting her life...herself. You're the witness...and now you know why they killed the messenger.

Choosing to believe this is part of her journey IS choosing your perspective. Create your own mind mantra's to combat the ones you've allowed to nestle into your brain before you had the hopper.

Can you see how the more you really get this and practice it, the less you will feel attacked, put down or degraded? She can say you have a huge purple head all day...but you KNOW (believe) you do not, so there is no offense to take. Later, not too far off, you'll be able to lovingly say, "You said I look sad and you hate it...that's defining me and abusive." Until then, when you've shown how to use "I" statements to own and not attack, know them as intimately as you come to know yourself more, you will example this and without teaching or instructing on how to do what you do, she will stop. Her choice. Not your manipulation.

Remind yourself you are enduring more pain than you thought you ever could...all that running from pain, protecting yourself from tiny stabs and the hum of degradation didn't do one bit of good, did it? You have had a tidal wave of pain and learned from it...continue to learn from it, including your part that adds to its height and breadth. The safer you become for you and others, the less pain comes in, and the more you can feel from inside you, about you, within your control.

Now, when you are not listening and repeating, going about your normal self-care within her vicinity, say important stuff, like you want in your letter...only one statement at a time, of what you own in your life. "I am discovering I have given myself permission to manipulate others from fearing pain. Anything for the trash? I'm taking it out now."

Driving in the car, if you hum or sing to the music, at a light, you can say, "Before MB, I had no idea of my part in having a great relationship. I was playing by ear, badly." And drive on. No expectation or desire for response...continue humming, singing...because you are voluntarily being open and honest...not manipulative. You don't just do this with WW...you can practice at work. I surprised myself when I told the VP one day that his comment was defining me, which was abusive. I was light and pleasant, having practiced a lot with WH...and said, "I didn't know that until recently. Isn't that interesting?"

He hasn't defined me in the year since. People are capable...they get it. When they choose to get it. And I had no expectation of him stopping at all...just my part, holding true to my code of honesty, openness, consideration, respect and acceptance. I accept the person, not the behavior when it is abusive. I accepted my WH made his own choices, had to decide his own right and wrong, and no longer define him, for good or bad.

This is the road to redemption and relief...for both you and your WW. All this creates a place for you to be you, with or without your marriage...your intent remains to save your marriage so you can be a respectful spouse and father. And you do this by being respectful for you.

See where it allays competition? Your respect negates earning love...you're not be good, better, best...you are being you, fully human, for the first time. Separate and equal...not the cause, cure or control of anything but yourself. Each time you have a thought, "Oh, no...she is crying, I've hurt her" stop yourself. Check your words or actions. Immediately own if you are judging, defining or DJing. Maybe you haven't. After you check and come up with nothing disrespectful, tell yourself, her tears are hers. No hand holding--to make it better, give comfort...she is capable of having tears for a reason. Later, when you're really safe, you can volunteer "When I cry now, I find it is sometimes from pain, sometimes from fear, and even anger or frustration. I used to lump it all into pain and try to stop that pain."

See how you're volunteering and open and safe for her to tell you what her feelings are? And if she doesn't, you respect her choice. She's in control of her, not you. And you continue on.

This is how we break our enmeshment...owning what isn't ours; respecting each other's humanness and separate responsibility. See her choice to speak or not speak; as is yours.

In the silence in between, do not allow negative tirades against yourself..."Oh, that would have been a good time to say something, you idiot"...what you do not allow yourself to do to others (defining, abusing) you cannot allow you to do to yourself...if you give yourself permission to do one of these, you are giving it for both. They cannot be separate permissions...that's suppression, not changing beliefs...doesn't work. That isn't teaching yourself you are truly separate and equal, just as you are, without a word or action, is it? So your rudimentary belief system takes that as permission to call other names, to degrade...to abuse.

Respect has no labeling, mind reading or assumptions. Stop your thoughts at each one. "Oh, now she's angry." Stop. "She didn't say she was angry. She didn't say anything." Until she chooses to inform, you must respect you don't know...and when you are told, you listen and repeat...she owns her anger; you don't.

Tune into your emotions...more time in your head, can you tell? Listening for disrespectful thoughts to yourself, sorting the hopper, doing self-care...suddenly, you're swamped! LOL No more time to analyze, focus on or cure your WW...too much to do on the inside! When you have an emotion loud enough to hear...feel it...resentment? Hmmm...where did that come from? Picture yourself finding the line to it and groping backwards on it to trace it to a belief or expectation...awwww....an old one...when I hold the door open for someone and they don't acknowledge me or say thank you, I feel resentment. 'K. You have an unreasonable expectation because you chose to hold the door and don't control others...mark it on your list to toss that one. Replace it with, "I choose to hold doors open because I enjoy being thoughtful and demonstrating care to myself; many have held doors for me when I'm carrying a lot, or just because...like payback. I choose to do this of my own free will. No expectations. Reward is in my choice."

Takes repeated door openings (or whatever you traced the resentment to) to replace that belief. You will lovingly remind your children of something until they get it (when they choose!); same for new coworkers...you don't instruct once and watch them perform every task and process without a hitch...same for your own beliefs...they don't believe you're seriously until you example to yourself what you really choose to believe. And we have thousands of hidden beliefs we operate from we don't even know about, because we have lived from our feelings instead of them. Some were formed when you were 2, 3, 4 years old. How well do you think you live when you react directly from those?

Another thing to have in your hopper are key words..."always, never, ever" and the like are signs you are feeling childish...might be operating from wishfulness or illogic rather than your more wise adult side. Tune into your own feelings and words...do not teach, but be your own student. Highly aware. Do not DJ yourself when you feel this...know we all have this...not a childish side but a true child within us...and at times, usually in anger, pain or resentment (especially), we have given them permission to make our decisions. Usually, the really bad ones. "Life's not fair" sounds adult because adults said it to us. It is very childish. You are alive, marvelously made and have new opportunities to grow every day...choosing that perspective rather than "that's not fair" is far more adult. Life is an stunning gift, beyond what we may believe we deserve...or a sucking void, bad karma and inevitable sorrow...if we choose that perspective. Choose wisely. Find your adult within all your emotions...trace your beliefs...and become safe, at peace, not because you can do no harm (humans do damage), but because what has been done, is being done and will be done, can be owned, amended and learned from.

See how shattered dreams, sturgis and all the others are saying the same things for Plan A? Being calm isn't suppressing your feelings or beliefs...it is being respectful and safe. Once you really define your own code...you can create real boundaries about you...because they are what you won't allow others to do to you...and they have to match what you don't allow yourself to do to others or yourself...balanced life. Sane life. All internal---no longer dependent on what is done or said to you...you know you don't have a purple head because you've examined yourself and owned your actions and choices.

You can do this. Sleep is essential for clarity. Your actions speak volumes to you...as do your words in thoughts and images...choose wisely. Rest easy. Each day, you're changing your beliefs and your life.

LA

wow...thank you for your time in putting this together. I will graciously put the hopper on top of my head right now.

i have allowed myself to be so affected by her actions...taken everything so personally...let every tiny move she makes wound me. and while i have been strong and confident it - my self protection has not been surrounding me.

i keep looking for an instruction book on how to repair this and fix her...when what i need to do is fix myself...focus on myself....and my daughter...and just let her feel what she is feeling.

i get so scared that she will choose to leave...choose someone else...a life that she thinks will be better...and this spins around in my head all the time.

Technically speaking and this is not a DJ - i don't need her for any of the daily living stuff - i take care of those things...I don't need money...or anything like that (and in this way she is right i do have security) - i have many friends and the support of my family...so i am not afraid of a life without her...but what i did need and am trying to iron clad, protect and understand that i may never get it back - is the ability to have her in my heart....for her to reach for my hand...

I have been waiting for her to wrap her arms around me and say she is sorry...that she knows this has been horrible and that it will be ok. this has been a mistake...i have to let that go and then i believe my resentment and dj's will also fade...

thanks LA for the hopper...i will use it starting now.

LA.... extraordinary post. You have eloquently described the process of changing Pre-A behaviours which leave a marriage vulnerable.

Communication breakdowns occur insidiously, over a long period of time, and we slip into ruts of "spontaineous responses" which slowly allow the relationship to deteriorate, while at the time we don't even realize it's taking place.

We get lazy in our communication skills with those who are most important to us, and the LoveBusters begin to fall into a regular pattern, and we don't realize how much damage we are doing to our marriage.

It is horrible that often times one partner becomes so dissillusioned with the relationship that they become receptive to EN's being filled by others.

Your post describes how to become enlighted to "hearing" and "processing" interactions with your spouse in a creative and positive manner. If this could become a routine practice between all married couples, there would be a lot less infidelity. I have never seen this phenomonen described and explained so well.

Thanks for your time and effort in a truly insightful post.

SD

Hey, CL...you don't look so bad with that hopper on your head...kind of jaunty.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You are not alone being enmeshed in your WW. Many of us...countless?...have. Knowing you are separate and equal really is the key...keep reminding yourself. Feel that freedom when you have only you to control. Stay free and respectful.

You're looking at your expectations...masquerading as desires...sneaky stuff, I tell ya...for her to put her arms around (desire for affection and acceptance) and then repent. See that? See your desire for remorse and recognition as what it really is...that you might have the intent of changing yourself to get to that goal. One you don't control.

That's not a goal. More poison from enmeshment. I hope you don't hear me saying you're doing everything wrong...whittling you down to a sliver...I don't intend to. Expose to yourself what you choose...we choose our expectations, desires, dreams, wants and needs...we just don't believe we do. Here's how I got through this part...

Congratulate yourself with words and affection...hug yourself with childlike glee, because you are safe, and caring for yourself in a very real way now. You do for yourself, yes...but before, your expectations bred resentment at times...now you no longer are willing to give yourself permission. What I would like to see you do, is to give yourself praise, admiration, attention, a lot of smiles, and recognition that you are whole and complete. Just you. Not as an image, a catch, monitarily, socially...just you. You're not broken and you are not fixing yourself or anyone else...

Each self hug is a celebration of being alive and being you. Sounds as silly as the hopper, but reach for your own hand...stroke the side of your own face...and yes, you can do this privately...heehee. I couldn't have gotten through this without doing these things.

Affection as touch has been important to you all your life. It is visual and kinetic acceptance. It is your truth...God made you acceptable. Time to demonstrate this to yourself and stay aware.

Your resentments will not fade unless you harness your hidden expectations...you've been earning your life so long, it's automatic. Time to stop automatic. You tell your fear, face to childlike face, that you understand fearing love leaving you for your WW, understandable, but not real. You're choosing to love, remain loving...because you have learned that it is all your choice...not dependent on her. And you choose to love your self as well. You choose to know you are equal to everyone else...her choosing to leave to find better, more comfortable, a better fit, will only lead her back into the same situation, no matter who she chooses...we all take ourselves along. Your fear will calm down so you can hear the old tit for tat resentments you've stored up.

You can write those away in a resentment timeline...write them all down, back to the beginning of your marriage...and you will be surprised at what you find. Tell me about what you find.

Stay focused on now, right now...not what ifs or if onlys...bar those from your internal and external vocabulary. Feel lifted by the present...just this moment...all we have (proves we're all equal), and know how important you are...you are half the marriage, all of your life. Funny math, but it works.

DJ's don't fade...they have to be extricated with shovels and tweezers...first, you become aware of how often you define others, judge them...comparisons, evaluations...then you stop yourself from saying them, even in a good way...listening for "more, better, best, worse, worst, bad, good" words...then you listen for them in your head about you...and stop them. Look in that childlike face of fear and say, "No. That's not what I do. I'm separate and equal. I'm safe." Because you are.

Learn silence as a respectful place to wait to listen better. This was very difficult for me. I love it now. Those spontaneous responses SD said are right on. They are permissions to be defensive...even when no one is attacking you. This is the other side of safe...when you know the other person is expressing their belief, not a universal truth, then you will stopped feeling attacked.

I don't think we get lazy...or safe or secure and begin to disrespect. I think we get entitled to, by choosing the perspective we are just being us...when we aren't. We are being our feelings, not ourselves. And the awareness is rewarded when we listen without being enmeshed, and our spouses are new to us, fascinating, interesting...just being themselves. Without the assumptions and mindreading...the expectation of routines, good and bad...we are truly ourselves, respectful and calm, because we don't have all the negative feelings flooding us seeing conflict where it isn't; and finding joy where it was all along.

You can do this, CL...you ARE doing this. Please post your updates, grace us with even the little ones of your voluntary "I" statements; how your hopper is working, and how many expectations you caught today in your awareness net.

Show them to us. They help us all. You are blessing.

LA

(Thank you, SD. All inspired by reading, learning, and listening to MB...then living it.)

wow....lovinganyway....thats some pretty heavy and incredible stuff you wrote....

so right on!! i always seem to look at things from a very simplistic "here and now" view point...you are MUCH deeper and caused a lot of tought and relection...even on my part...thanks...

completlylost....stay strong bro!! your doin OK!!

i dont want to change the subject here or "jack" the issue...but lovinganyway...im having a hard time with forgivenesss to myself and my XW...maybe one day ill pick your thoughts on that if you have some time...

Hello LA...you are truly insightful and i believe that everything you are saying is on the mark...when she was staying home with the baby for that year - she really needed me...wanted me to hurry home...wanted my accolades and pride in her work on the home front. i liked it...it made me feel needed and necessary in her life. I am feeling this void in a tremendous way. but i was ok with it when she went back because i knew her job was high pressure & tough. Then she took this down slide...

She would hug and kiss me hello...i was her bright and shining star...doing it for the family. She was in tune with our daughter - a supermom in many ways. Now this has all abruptly stopped. Even in her past jobs (also high pressure)- our D and i were always her top priority and she & D were mine - she was proud of me - she boasted her love for me...so this is why i am still in out of shock from all of this. But i am putting these bits away and working on enjoying and living in each day.

I know i have many moments when i feel entitled. I am trying to squash this. and i know they come from my resentments...listed below

My resentments over the years...I am being honest here...these are my perceptions...
i work hard - everyday - she has been in and out of jobs since we got married..this i have resented. I am affectionate with her...she is sometimes very affectionate - sometimes she needs alot of distance...i have resented her mixed messages in this way...because i will think she wants me to touch her - be close to her and she will push me away - that rejection has been tough. I have always rubbed her back - worked hard to make sure she is comfortable...she does not reciprocate. She is quick to anger...she yells and screams and shames me. She idealizes people - in a BIG WAY - then as quickly as they are amazing - she hates them. She shuts out her friends and family...and my friends and family - finding faults in people...not letting anything slide. She has belittled me in front of friends and family on numerous occassions - embarassing me. She spends too much money. she says i need too much emotionally - when i am pretty reserved and tough. she plays head games with me (this one she has admitted to and has apologized for - recently - JUST before all of this began) and i know i feel resentment about this - how could she do this to us kind of thing. This is my list and i would like to put them in the "awareness net" - I know i have hung onto them for a long time and now i would like to toss them...and start something new free of my anger.

the head games comment she made to me - sticks firmly in my head - and i have found myself wondering - if this is what she is doing now...testing me...

She called me at work today to see if i wanted to go see the basketball game...something light and fun. So we gathered up our daughter and went. She continually checks in with me now to see if i am ok or having fun. and i always reassure her that yep i am great...having a great time (although most of the time i just want to curl up)

We got home and watched a little tv then i started up the stairs for bed and said goodnight etc... she called out hey i had a great time....which was wonderful...i know thats what she wants - just good days between us....with no expectations. i said me too...i told her i loved her (perhaps a mistake - but i wanted her to know it was my truth) and she replied in her sweet flirty voice "thank you"

well although i went into saying this with no expectations - hahaha - LOL -
i have decided that I need a very large hopper - one that is a barrier for my whole body...the thank you killed me. this is why i said i only thought she said it out of fear from our discussion the other night...because she hasn't said it since.

BUT in my hoppered brain - i just keep telling myself - she doesn't owe me this...we had fun - holded on to that and be ok with it...

BUT there is this little devil that is jumping up and down on my shoulder screaming LOVE ME - LOVE ME like you did a month ago...HOW DO YOU JUST TURN IT OFF LIKE THAT? I am looking DESPERATELY for a box to put him in - so i can live a peaceful happy existence...because this little guy is what will destroy us completely.

You eloquently said - this is her truth...her journey...i keep telling myself this. They are the wisest words i could hear. I am choosing to love her through this...and am working hard to do so without expectations - resentments - and i find it easier and easier to do if i can get out of my head - and really see her....in these days ahead.

How do you do this when she is so far from our marriage that i can barely see her. I know this is my insecurity - my baggage - my fears - but i feel she is already gone and am losing faith that she will come back. She has done this before in other relationships...she has told me...but she never had so much to lose before. She said she keeps waiting to feel something - but it doesn't come.

I have begun likening this to being with an alcoholic...but this isn't recovery right now...it is like a binge. She talks about OP alot - i don't know how to handle this - except to look forward and maintain my gaze on the horizon. I don't know what is going on there - i can't dig up anything significant...except the texts and her talk. she says it is simply friendship - nothing more...but it scares me - any tips here. I can't stop it - they spend all day together...this job that is now consumed her entire being.

BUT i do feel like i am recovering myself...learning alot about myself and her...what it takes to love and be loved on equal ground.

thank you LA - i am putting into practice your tips...listening - without jumping in - not finishing her thoughts - not fixing. I have my HEFTY HOPPER that protects my whole being. and i do have my freedom - myself and my choices...to stick it out for as long as it is safe for me...

this had been a mouthful...

Hey, Sturg...no problem. You holler at me anytime, 'k? Have to say in advance...your quotes are rather contrary to my life...so be prepared for me to sound really weird, 'k?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Okay, weirder than usual.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You're worth making time for, Sturg.

LA

"i liked it...it made me feel needed and necessary in her life." This is good self-insight.

"so this is why i am still in out of shock from all of this." Another one. You had no idea that your wife (way back before A) wasn't being O&H with you, correct?

Glad your resentments are in the awareness net (I enjoy your creativity 'cuz you stomach mine)...however, it ain't that easy.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Okay...let's go to this:
"I know i have hung onto them for a long time and now i would like to toss them...and start something new free of my anger."

First, tell me why you have hung onto them for a long time...what was your payoff?

(Doing this in parts, sir)

LA

i have hung on because they keep happening...just when one thing ends that i am PO'd about - when we get a moment of reprieve - another one starts...as if she can not survive without the anger.