Well, D-Day Friday, March 24th 2006 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> I found a letter that WW was writing for herself (so she says) to work out her shame and embarrasment. It was addressed to the OM although she says she was never going to give it to him. It confirmed my fears from the past 6 months.

I am in a state of shock I believe, no anger. I think I had already convinced myself of the PA with only evidence of an EA and had already worked out most of frustrations. Now I just feel sad and hurt. We talked a lot this weekend, and I do believe that the affair has been over since October. She is having a hard time with the guilt and embarassment she is putting on herself and sys she can hardly look me in the eyes.

I am just telling her how much I love her and how I want to work through things. She is having trouble with me being so calm, and expects me to be yelling and throwing things and to kick her out of the house. I have told her that I feel that I have delt with the pain already and made up my mind that I want this marriage to work no matter what.

I have read His Needs Her Needs and The 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman in the past month, and have told her that although I am not condoning the affair that by reading these books I see how my complacency in our marriage and me taking her for granted contributed to it. I have been doing my best for quite a while now to eliminated any love busters.

I will probably be posting here every day for a while to get the encouragement needed to keep up with the supportive side of plan A. I don't think anger will be a problem, but sometimes I get so sad that I can't even look at her and don't want to talk. I can not get the vision of them being together out of my head.

She said I have always been the "Nice Guy" and she didn't want to hurt me. Sometimes I wish I wasn't the "Nice Guy".

My next book will be surviving an affair. Is this valuable for both spouses? Thank you in advance for all of your help and support.

But my friend...

...we inherit the world <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Have patience with her. A lot of us on this board would give our right arm to be where you are now.


God bless,

FN

BB,
I think its progress <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Have you read ark^^ post about BE STILL? If I can find it I'll bump it up for you.

Has she said she is willing to commit to M?

Have you talked to her about MB principles? Is she open to it? How about a call to Steve Harley?

I've heard here that often WS is distrought and confused by their own behaviors that they don't know the path to take home. Staying calm is a good thing. Be the lighthouse and show her the way home.

"Surviving an Affair" is a great book and would be helpful to you. Keep your head up.

Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement.

I have not read the Be Still post, but will look for it now.

She has not yet said she is willing to commit to the M. She is saying that she is having trouble looking me in the eyes and doesn't know if she can forgive herself to get the point where she can open up to me physically again.

I want to be the lighthouse, but am having trouble balancing the lighthouse with the tow rope. I feel that sometimes I am going overboard on the nice and understanding and should back off and let her come to me.

She said just yesterday that by each of our reactions it is like I was the WS. She is still guarded and withdrawn to an extent, verry sorry and appologetic, but not begging to work things out. Where as I have been saying that I can not give up on our life together just because she was unfaithful.

What is the balance? Is there a line where I become needy and clingy and will turn her the other way? I want to show her I love her, but I don't want to show her I NEED her.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />This IS good. The fog is lifting and she is becoming aware of her actions/consequences.

I know this is hard. As a BS you want this to be over. Please try to be patient. Focus on making your home a safe place for her. Ask about her day, don't push R talk, LISTEN to her. Don't try and "fix" things for her but support her efforts. Focus on your recovery...be the man you want to be.

Try to do something fun with her. Smile at her when you speak to her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />Include her in your life. Tell her about your day. Ask her opinion and consider it (doesn't mean you should do what she says). Be considerate...you know what she likes. Show her she is valued....its all about ACTION now yours and hers.

I read on here somewhere to treat FWS coming out of the fog as someone who speaks a foriegn language...the meaning of words is confusing. i.e. The meaning of love for BS: loyalty, devotation, compassion, affection, kindness.
The meaning of lovefor WS: fun, excitement, lust, passion.

Make eye contact w/ her. Say her name when you speak to her. Be calm. Be gentle. But also maintain your boundaries. If she does something that makes you angry...tell her about it...but don't badger her with it.

BB, Confused42, is right. I don't know if you understand it. I read words like hers where she said to maintain your boundaries, and I just didn't understand how that applied to me till I was ready.

Absolutely, work on being a better husband and human. But DO NOT chase after her. In her current state, be a comforting rock. Rocks have stability and certainty, but they do not generally run after people begging them to come home.

I've nearly finished Dr. Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough" book and it's opened my eyes to what real boundaries need to be. If I were you (and YES, I would give my right arm, or even my left one, to be where you are), I would sit your wife down, let her know that you do love her, and you're willing to work with her, but making the marriage work is her CHOICE. She CHOSE the affair, and now, to begin to make amends, she MUST choose the marriage. If she thinks she needs to go, let her. In love, let her reap the consequences of her actions. Don't shield her. In so doing you would be excusing her actions and not letting her learn from her mistakes, and also telling her that what she did wasn't all that wrong.

Don't make the mistake I made shortly after D-Day. I accepted almost all the blame in hopes that it would allow my wife and I a fast path to recovery. Instead, it set us up for a new round of betrayals, because she never truly got to choose to make the marriage work on her own, and she never accepted the wrongness of her previous actions.

Love her, but stand back, and let her choose to return, repentant, and ready to do whatever it takes to restore the marriage.

God Bless!

Confused,

Thank you! You have been there from my first post when I could not imagine my W as a WW.

She is at the point now where she can't imagine herself as a WW. She has said things like "I would never do that", "I don't know who I am anymore", "I wasn't looking for this, you must think I am a ******".

I like your advice very much. The not talking about R is the hardest, I know I shouldn't but I don't innitiate exactly. For instance... Yesterday WS comes over to me while is was sitting in the living room, gets down on her knees and lays her head on my lap, says "I'm sorry" (about the 20th time since Friday) and I held her for a long time. I wanted to just keep holding her, but from somewhere I started talking. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Hey BB, I'm an FWW, and confused42's acvide is spot on. You sound a lot like my H (we're about 18 months into recovery). Really nice guy, more hurt than anger. Initially he was too slingy and into the R talk and it didn't do a whole lot of good at that stage. Once he made home feel "safe" and once we started doing fun stuff together, things started to look up. We're doing pretty well now.

I had a moment like you W's where I literally laid down on the floor beside my H (he was stretching) and kept sobbing the "I'm sorrys." He said something like how getting through the tough times will make us stronger. And it's true, if everything's hunky dory all the time, and you're never challenged with crisis, then how do you know you can handle it?

Not that I'd wish the A crisis on anyone. I'd turn the clock back if I could, but no choice but to move forward. You seem like a decent, forgiving person, and trust me that is HUGE. Now she needs to explore what caused her to make that awful choice and take measures to make sure it doesn't happen again.

GBH,

Thank you for those words. It sounds like your H and I could get along real well. I said the same thing to W, the "I think we will be stronger because of this in the long run".

My problem is definetely going to be patience!

BB,



I think this is an excellent book. If your FWW is willing, you might try reading it together. My FWH was remorseful, gentle, loving, and I never doubted he loved me, but I needed to understand the dynamics of how we got to the point in our marriage where he would consider an affair. He needed a greater understanding of the horrible effect that the affair has on the BS, and he needed to understand that my feelings etc were normal for a BS. SAA helped us tremendously.



My FWH described his actions looking back like he lost his way and lost himself and his morality during EA and that enabled him to move on into a PA easily. Once in, he realized that it wasn't going to be an easy or guilt free activity. He experienced a complete lack of self respect and actually hated the person he had become. I think he still believes in some ways that he is not worthly of me and doesn't deserve to have a life with me.


This is very important to recovery. This was the first thing that FWH and I discussed. We came away, early on, communicating better than we ever had and with a much better understanding of each other. I understood the role I played in our marriage of keeping him guessing as to my feelings for him. This led him to a point where he needed to be needed and wanted....OW provided that. FWH learned that I did care about him enough to consider remaining together despite his affair. He also learned that he was capable of causing me unbearable pain by his betrayal. Before and during his affair he actually convinced himself and believed that I wouldn't care.

Good luck to you in beginning to recover. We are all here to encourage you.

Who

BB -

I definately think there is a balance. I struggle with this question all the time myself. I've find it quite ironic that in most of the popular relationship books for men, about half say you need to be the "nice guy", (sensitive, affectionate, loyal, etc.) and the other half say you need to be the "bad boy". (independent, take charge, my way or the highway, etc.). I use "guy" and "boy" here, but I think it's equally applicable to how men view woman. Men like a woman to be sweet and naughty at the same time.

They are both about ways to be attractive. Maybe its about needs and wants. (I need someone to help take care of me, but I want someone who is exciting). Maybe its about internal and external. (I want someone who loves me enough to do nice things for me and I internally value them, but I want that person to be valued externally by others because it increases my self worth) Maybe its about have's and have not's. (I want to feel lucky that I have this person, but I want to make sure he's someone who others feel unlucky in not having them). Maybe its in the genes. (I want the nice person to help raise the offspring, but I want the best possible genes based on current environment).

Probably a thousand variations on the theme, but to me, people want both. Light and Dark, yin and yang, the golden rule, a balance.

First, being attractive to your spouse is not about guessing exactly what she wants and its not about her giving you a laundry list of to do items. I say this because I think some are looking for a "silver bullet". Please tell me the exact words and actions to take that will work. Then they report back with their WS's reactions. They are dissappointed with the results and they come back looking again for the next silver bullet. Silver bullett's look and feel a lot like manipulation. I think many WS's can see right through manipulation and it makes matters worse.

In real recovery, there aren't any "silver bullets". Its about both BS and WS making changes, internalizing those changes, and continual improvement. It takes time, care, communication and effort. The spouses may be on different timetables, they may be at different levels of committment, and the may have different levels of success when internalizing changes. People are people and people are different. Try as one might, you can't control their timetable, control their committment, or control their success. Influence, certainly. Control, no.

How do you influence? By focusing on your self and becoming a better man. It sounds like you are working on that. While working on that, ask yourself the questions.

Have you historically been imbalanced?
Where have you historically been imbalanced?
How far to the left or right have you been?

Answers to these questions, along with EN's and avoiding LB's should guide your plan. It should help you create that balance. To me, what is key is to not totally overwhelm the system. Deviating 180 degrees from your normal in one day is a shock. Many WS's would not trust this. (This is not to say I don't understand the 180 approach, I just don't know if I agree with it). So, if you've spent the last five years and never said ILY. Don't blast her with e-mails professing your undying love. Weave them in, weave them in when appropriate, weave them in when you feel it. It's not that you forgot you love her. Its you forgot to say it. The improvement you are making in yourself is recognizing that ILY's matter and that you should not forget to say it. Next time you feel it, then say it. The reverse holds true as well. If you've always seemed needy, clingy or overly accomodating, recognize that. Plan to go out, invite your spouse and if they don't want to go. Nicely say, well, I'll see you in a few hours and go out and have a good time.

So, make a plan to better yourself. Start off slowly, and let it build. Stick to the plan you develop for at least a few weeks at a time. As you observe changes in your self and your WS, adjust your plan, gradually moving towards a balanced state.

As for reading SAA, definately agree you should read it. Its also good for the WS to read it. However, I would approach this much as I've said before. Its not about WS please read this so you can get better. The focus is on you. "Dear WS, I'm reading this wonderful book and it has some great insights on how I can improve myself. If you get the chance, would you read it and tell me if you think it makes sense. I'd hate to be trying to improve myself on something that doesn't matter. I'd value a woman's perspective, especially yours"

Finally, IMHO, do not push the commit to the M. All you both need right now is a commit to heal each other. She's hurting, you're hurting, you two are the best people to heal each other. Do that first.

Obviously, these are just my opinions and always appreciate others view points.

Thank you all for the great words of wisdom and encouragement. I have an IC appointment in a couple hours and I am eager to attend. This will be my 5th appointment, but the first since d-day. Between this site and my IC I do believe I can get through this extremely difficult time.

Good instinct.

She's someone you want to attract but currently are not attracting.

Speaking in generalities now...

Most women aren't attracted to men who kiss their butts or beg for attention. It's not masculine. Most women are attracted to men who are confident and don't seem to care if the woman likes them.

It seems scary and a little bizarre to behave this way with your wife. What if she interprets even a hint of aloofness or cockiness as a sign that you don't love her and don't want to save the marriage? Right?

She knows you want to stay married.

You can't convince her to start feeling attracted to you again with a discussion. And you can't guilt her into feeling attracted to you. If she's got principles, she'll stay until those feelings are restored. But as a WW, she doubts they ever can be, and is always looking for reasons to leave.

So you need to attract her. You want to satisfy her ENs without seeming to care whether or not it works.

GC

How did IC go?

Confused,

I have been very pleased with my IC and as usual it went real well. He validated my feelings of not being angry since I have been dealing with the thought of everything going on since October and have moved passed an anger stage and am now experiencing hurt. This is a pretty accurate assesment in my book. We are going to working on that in the coming weeks.

What I am dealing with now can be summed up with a statement that came out in IC last night. I said that I love her enough to get over the hurt, but hurt enough to be able to walk away if it came to that. Right now the love is winning, it is just a matter of keeping it that way.

Thank you for asking.

Good timing...I was just looking for your thread. I'm glad you had a good session w/ IC. There is another thread on here about "guilt" Mrs. Wondering gave a lot of insight into the heart/mind of WW. There is a lot going on inside the WS...try to be patient. In the mean time take care of your family and most importantly take care of yourself. When she is ready to deal with this she is going to need you.

I see your situation moving toward recovery but I don't think you are there yet. BUT...you are planting the seeds.

Thanks again. I understand that I need to be the strong one and am trying my best to be the anchor in the storm. I will keep you posted.

Well, W had couseling session yesterday that sent her over the top. She has been trying to deal with her guilt and embarrasement through IC for past couple of months, but my exposure to her on Friday has put her in a tail spin. She is now on a suicide watch with her IC and she was forced to sign a waiver that information could be shared with my IC so I could do anything possible to keep her safe.

All of the feelings that I have been fighting for the last 5-6 months are very clear now. She is so upset with herself for letting the A take place. She can't bear to look at me now that I know, and it is even harder yet that I am understanding and wanting to work through it.

Her A was a little different situation as explained to me by my IC. The A started while on deployment for FEMA in New Orleans after the hurricane. She did not handle the trauma well at all and bonded with someone that helped her get through the days. Being a flight nurse she sees a lot of nasty things during her work, but she said compared to her work she can not even describe what she saw in New Orleans.

The week after she got back from New Orleans the helicopter that she worked in ona 7am-7pm shift went down at 10pm and the pilot died. All of this trauma that she had witnessed in such a short time has really messed her up. The OM is someone she works with, not at the same place, but for the same company. Again they leaned on each other and not ever going through counseling for the trauma that they experienced ended up an A.

Fast forward about 1 month of extreme pain and suffering (at least on my end). I made W go to MC and the MC advised W to seek IC for debriefing and to unload her suffering. As soon as she started IC, she "woke up" and realized what she was doing in the A and ended it. She also shared her experiences with OM and advised him to seek IC which he did.

She has been having trouble ever since that point looking at herself in the mirror, looking me in the eye, and being around any family. She just started IC up again 6 weeks ago and was working to the point she could look at me, touch me, and begin to work on our marriage when my paranoia led me to find the note that exposed the past affair.

She said that me being so supportive of her is making it harder. She believes that she desrves to be punished for what she has done and is really in self destruct mode.

Is there any advice to what I can do or not do to help her through this. I know I can not have any control over her feelings and emotions, but it is so hard to sit back and watch the love of your lifetime struggle while you sit by helpless.

Did your IC or her IC give you any direction on how to help her?

....this is a very sensitive situation. My thoughts are...let her know you are human too, capable of mistakes, not a prince on a pedastool. Don't push relationship talk but listen if she wants to talk. Don't be a saint or a martyr, be a husband. If tension becomes so great acknowledge it and do something distracting. I don't know where you live but in on the eastcoast its a beautiful day. Take her out for a walk.
Play a game, play cards, turn some music on and ask her to dance w/ you. Be there for her, let her know you are there for her warts and all.

Just my thoughts. Keep us posted.