Hey BTE,

Sounds like things are going well! Good for you!!

HTBH

Well, the calm only lasted so long lol.

My dh is unhappy with my lack of physical touch with him. NOt necessarily sex, in his words he needs me to show a sexual interest in him, it's something he wants and needs. I can't show him something I don't have. I don't want to be rubbed on by him or touched very much at all. It's gotten worse since I started taking this new medication, amitrityline, for pain. I'm not sure if its just coincidence or if it could be part of the reason.

He has told me he feels that things are getting better between us emotionally, I don't feel that way. I feel as if we are at a standstill, its not getting worse, but not any better.

The other issue with showing him sexual interest is something I've talked to him about before, I'm not very attracted to him right now. In the past I've said it's the weight, I'm not sure it's the weight as much as him still taking care of himself because he is overweight. Ya know, wearing clothes that fit properly, personal hygeine ( the teeth brushing he has improved on), but making sure you aren't ashy, cleaning yourself up etc. He left me a note this morning after he got out of bed at 3am because I asked him to stop rubbing on me.

He said that he hasn't told me whats wrong so I couldn't do anything about it, now he is telling me. The last couple of nights he has seemed upset, I've asked" is there something bother you" and he would tell me no. Instead of prying and going on and on, I left it at that and took him at his word for it, I figured I would let him tell me when he was ready.

So, here we are, and I believe he wants something from me that I just can't give right now. When I go to bed at night, I want to go to sleep, when he starts rubbing on me, I tense up and can't fall asleep. I believe it's a reaction to me thinking he wants sex.

I need to respond to him, I'm just not sure how to do it.

BTE, can you and H brainstorm a solution that you can both be happy about? Have you all done this much before?

WE have tried in the past, but it doesn't work out well, one of us always ends up not completely happy. He has already sent me an email wanting to know if I had a comment on his note, I told him that I was still thinking about it.

I know it has to do with my feelings of inadequacy. Not ever being enough, hence, my old screenname, never enough.I'm also not sure if my medicine is causing a problem. I thought I was doing better with it, the last couple nights I had sat with him on the couch for almost 3 hours each night. With the heat here, 80 degrees in the house, I'm not big on being touched, I get irritated in the heat. A combination of my feelings, meds, and the heat, i'm just not wanting to be rubbed on.

BTE, I'm from South Florida, so I can totally relate! That doesn't make you inadequate or "not enough", that's totally natural. Do you have any relief from the heat? Ceiling fan, standing fan, AC? How about going for a drive with the AC on high LOL

The feelings of inadequacy and heat are two separate issues for me. My husband has admitted that he looks to me to make him feel loved and to be fulfilled he needs me to touch him. It's a lot to carry. If I don't give him enough touch and attention, he isn't satisified, and I feel overwhelmed. That's the feeling of inadequacy, not being able to give all the hugs and kisses my kids need and keep up with my dh needing me to help him feel loved.

We do use the AC and have ceiling fans. We keep the ac at about 78, we are new to the south, so the humidity and so forth is just killin us lol. We are still adjusting to the new type of heat.

BTE, have you read How to Meet the Need For Affection? If that list is things that would make Love Bank Deposits for your H, are those things you could do, or would that be more than you could do right now? How about your kids? Do they have other love languages you can speak to them in, like gifts, or words of praise, or time, and let their dad meet their need for affection? Which would help him, too?

You're not inadequate, just different. But you don't sound convinced. I was pretty relieved to learn that I don't have to be critical of my failings, I can accept them as not good, not bad, they just are, and I try to do what I can better the next day. It is a lot of work rethinking everything as it happens, in real time, but it's really good for me. Is this an attitude you'd like to have? Do you think it would help?

Something to think about. If you are giving your kids lots of hugs, to the extent that you are all "touched out" when H comes home, you are shooting yourself in the foot. You are not only "giving away the store" during the day, but you are meeting your kids need for touch as well. So THEY are less needy when H comes home. Now there is NO ONE there to meet H's need for touch.

How would you feel about letting the kids meet more of H's need for touch, and you meeting less of it. That way you have more to give H. And he has less need to bring to you. And the kids still get their hugs.

If I didn't get lots of hugs and kisses from my kids, I would not have survived the past 10 years. They do hug their Mom also. But not as much as they used to. This has enabled her to tolerate more non-sexual touching from me. And lets kids have the kind of touchy-feely relationship with their Dad that they need but often don't get. I am still the disciplinarian in our house (we don't call Mrs. Hold "The Wrap" - as in the kids have her wrapped around their fingers - for nothing). But knowing that they are going to get a huge bedtime hug from Dad no matter what they did wrong during the day or what punishment I hand out has gone a long way toward their understanding that my love can withstand their bad behavior.

I reread the article. We do a lot of the stuff in there, the I love you's quick notes to each other. It's the touch that my husband wants. I don't really like kissing. I don't even kiss my family on the lips, mom dad grandparents. His words exactly are "You show a sexual interest in me is something that I want and need!" I don't have a sexual interest in him. Last night we laid on the couch I rubbed his head and his back. He was still upset, hence, the letter I got this morning. I'm confused because he says he knows I can't really have sex it's painful, but he wants more sexual touch from me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Yet, at the same time, he complains because I ask him to stop rubbing me. So does that mean, if I touch him more, he would be willing to touch me less? Even if so, if I have no sexual feelings towards him, is it all pointless?



I "KNOW" I'm not inadequate but its still a long standing belief that I am fighting. I know I am just different. My oldest daughter is a lot like me, she usually just wants a hug and kiss at night before bed and she is ok. My youngest daughter, who is also my dh's bio daughter is a lot like him. She wants hugs and kisses all day long and gets really hurt if she doesn't get them, when dh gets home she is the same way to him. She is the type that you will walking down the aisle at a store, she will stop walk up to you puck her her lips or a kiss and say hug.

I don't know where to meet him in the middle. I don't know how to explain that I have no sexual feelings without completely destroying him. Yet, I have to be honest.

Perhaps, but my daughter is pretty much the same way to him that she is to me. She is a hugger and kisser all day long lol. I think this need that we are talking about for dh is sometihng he needs exclusively from me, it's a sexual interest and touch he is looking for from me.



I bet that is an awesome feelings for them. Knowing that dad can discipline them and still love them. My youngest daughter, as soon as she is disciplined she wants a hug and kiss.

My dh doesn't feel loved unless I am touching and hugging on him.

Do you really think it would destroy him if you admitted your lack of sexual desire? Perhaps we can rephrase this without it being such a DJ about him.

I am guessing that what you don't know is how to explain it to him without risking that he will make a decision you would prefer he not make. I am not suggesting you do otherwise. You are probably correct that he might make a decision you wouldn't enjoy.

But the issue looks a little different when you look at it as "how do I explain this without destroying his hope that some day I will be able to meet his need" and "how do I explain this without completely destroying him". One way your are graciously refusing to hurt him and the other way your are withholding information he needs to make choices about his life.

Again, I am not suggesting you make a different choice. Just suggesting that you might find it easier to endure the tension if you see yourself as actively choosing to maintain the status quo instead of passively suffering from your husband's fragility.

Hi BTE!

I hear ya on the "rubbing" thing. I personally like a lot affectionate touching, and I don't have kids touching me all day long, so I'm usually ready for some affection when I get home. But if I'm hot, or not feeling well, or sleeping, well, that's another story altogether! ESPECIALLY if I'm trying to sleep.

And the heat is the worst! I'm used to the summers here (Texas), but I spent 3 weeks in the Caribbean in college with no AC, and I couldn't even imagine wanting to touch another person for any reason the entire time I was there. So I totally hear what you're saying!

I love EO's suggestion that you try to brainstorm some specific ideas that you and he can both be enthusiastic about. Was he specific about what he kind of touching he is looking for? Or is he just looking for more affection in general? Is there a way of touching that you ARE comfortable with that he would enjoy? Would it help if YOU touch HIM (say, rub his neck, or massage his (clean) feet, something like that), rather than him touching on you?

If I were you (and I'm not! so this may not apply to you), I would tell him that, while I do want to touch him more and help meet this need of his, rubbing on me while I'm asleep or trying to sleep is off limits, and I will choose to sleep in another room if he chooses to do that. You may not feel that strongly about it, but sleep is CRUCIAL to me, and I can't sleep if someone's rubbing on me (even in a totally non-sexual way).

And about your feeling overwhelmed because he needs you to touch him to make him feel loved... Well, I would feel overwhelmed, too, if I thought that I had to make my H feel loved! You can't MAKE him feel anything, good or bad, so trying to make him feel love would be like trying to fill a bottomless pit! No wonder you feel inadequate -- you really CAN'T do this for him, no matter how hard you try.

What you can do is choose to demonstrate your love for him in a way that he likes AND that you are enthusiastic about doing. It might look the same -- you may choose the same action to show love as you would to "make" him feel loved -- but as LA says, the intent is totally different. And it's a crucial difference, IMHO.

This is what I want to do. I also want him to understand that it doesn't mean he sexual desire won't come back. Right now it's not there. I am being treated again for the problems I am still having with sex,which is pretty emotional draining for me, we just moved 6 months ago, he is already having problems with work, and talking about applying for jobs almost 4 hours away, which would obviously mean another move. I have made it clear that I am not moving again within the next two years. We are having huge problems with our home that is brand new, we are fighting daily with the builder which is stressful, its just never ending lol. Once things settle down, my body gets used tot this new medicine, or I get fixed all together, etc, I might feel differently.

I have told him in the past that I'm not sexually attracted to him right now. In fact it was probably less than a month ago that I told him.

I know it's possible that he may decide he can't stay in a marriage this way, I'm not afraid of that decision. It would be unfair of me to keep information from him to stop him from choosing what he wants for his life.

OK, so it took me so long to write that last post of mine that I missed your replies to Hold...

So it sounds like your H wants "sexual touch" rather than just affection. Do you know what that means, specifically? I still think it's important to find out exactly what he is asking for before you tell him you can't do it.

As far as telling him you have no sexual feelings... Hmm... It is definitely a DJ to assume that ANYTHING you might tell your H would destroy him, as though he can't handle hearing your truth. And radical honesty is important. But.. I'm getting a sense that this might not be your entire truth.

Do you have no sexual feelings at all? Or is it more complicated than that? Like, maybe you do have sexual feelings sometimes, but you are feeling a lack of desire for him right now (due to the fact that SF is painful, or his hygiene turns you off, or his neediness turns you off, or whatever reason)?

I may be off the mark here, but I think there may be more to say than just "I'm not attracted to you."

This is what he said "I am not asking for sex all the time nor am I touching you in a sexual way I just want to feel you against me! The emotional side of our relationship is getting better but the physical side is lacking very much. I really don't want you to have sex with me all the time but I do want you to show a sexual interest in me. You show a sexual interest in me is something that I want and need! "

He also feels that he is doing his part to make our marriage better and "I also feel that you should do the same to make my desires of marriage come true. "




I guess in a way I have already done this. I stay up later than he does, but I also get up at least 3 hours later than he does. I usually don't go to bed until he is asleep. If he wakes up he starts the rubbing on me. He mentioned that I don't go to bed with him anymore. But if he stays up late and then wants me to go to bed at the same time as he does, I don't get any time by myself to unwind.



I do understand this, but he has to learn it on his own. I have a hard time with it, feeling like I am responsible for him feeling loved. I believe in the past I did the same thing to him. I am still working on knowing that I am loveable with or without him. He doesn't define me.
How do you tell him that I am not responsible for his feelings without being disrespectful?

GMTIA I just sent him an email asking what does he mean by sexual touch. I dont' know exactly what he means so Iwant to be clear and understand what he is asking for.



You are right that was disrespecftul. I have told him before, he was sad and moped around a couple of days, but he seems to be fine. Destroy wasn't the right word.



That's just it, the feelings may come back. I like sex, but I'm one of the few women that just like sex, I don't want to cuddle afterwards, I don't see it as this big emotional connection, it's a physical thing for me. He wants the emotional side of it. The lack of desire is a combination of everything, its basically everything you listed. IT's painful, so there are alternative to actual intercourse, we've been down that road, his neediness does bother me, his personal hygeine has gotten better, he is brushing teeth regulary, but I still wish he would wear clothes that fit properly, lotion on, etc.

HE clarified for me that he is tired of rubbing on me and me telling him to stop. When he told me that I didn't get upset, I repeated to make sure I heard him. I said "I hear you are telling me that you don't want to be turned down or away by me is that right?" He said yes. The conversation went on some more. I did tell him that right now at this time, I don't enjoy being touched, but I have been reaching out to him, touching him more, hence rubbing his head and back on the couch the other day, at my daughters softball game I rubbed his shoulders and gave him lots of hugs, he even thanked me for it. I think that's why today really through me for a loop. I'm glad I asked instead of assuming. I'm glad that he clarified. He also asked for some more time to think about what he really wants to ask for. That he wants some time to put it together in his mind. He did acknowledge that I had been touching him more, that it was my denying him to touchme that was bothering him.

He also said it bothers him that I stay up for hours after he is asleep, as if I am avoiding him. I explained that the medicine I am taking leaves me groggy and sleepy through half the day, that by the time he is going to bed I am not tired. He asked if I could call the dr and ask for a lower dose or see if we can cut the pill in half if that would work. I told him that I wait until I am tired enough that when I lay down I dont' toss and turn and don't want to read as to not wake him, but he usually does wake a bit when I come in and that's when he rubs on me and I get irritated cause I'm finally ready for bed. So, I'm thinking, maybe we can compromise, and it might help. I am going to suggest, assuming the girls are in bed (some night he goes to bed as early as 730), that I lay with him for X amount of time when he goes to sleep, if I don't fall asleep, I am free to get up and do what I want/need to get done. I'm not sure what to do about the denying him of rubbing on me. Maybe if he can agree to no sexual rubbing for awhile, I would feel better about it.

Hi again!



Well, that's not quite what I had in mind, because now he doesn't know WHY you aren't going to bed with him. And you are still sleeping in the same bed, so he can still rub on you if he wakes up in the middle of the night. So it's close to what I was thinking, but not quite there. Because now you have this situation:



Umm, but didn't you say in your earlier post that you ARE avoiding him so he won't rub on you when you get in bed? THAT is why I think you should tell him, clearly, that you don't want to be rubbed on when you are trying to sleep, and you will enforce that boundary by sleeping in the guest room, or coming to bed late, or whatever you plan to do to protect yourself IF he chooses to continue to rub on you. And if he does choose to stop the rubbing, then you can go to bed with him and he can enjoy the pleasure of having you near him -- but right now, he doesn't have you with him and he doesn't even know why.



I know, this is a really hard one. And he does have to learn it on his own, but I wasn't referring to HIM learning it but to YOU learning it. Even if he believes that he needs you to make him feel loved, you can choose to believe otherwise. Instead of believing that you have the impossible task of making him feel love, and being disappointed in yourself every time he fails to feel it, you can instead celebrate that you chose to show him love, EVEN IF he doesn't feel loved. I think that will help with your feelings of inadequacy.

As far as telling him, you might try LA's "drive-by" strategy, and casually tell him one day that you believe no one can make you feel anything, that you own your own feelings, or something like that, rather than trying to teach him to own his own feelings. He'll get there when he's ready.



BTE, we're talking about YOUR body and YOUR sleep being disturbed -- you have every right to set a boundary regarding when and how you want to be touched. Period. If you continue to allow him to rub on you while wishing he would just stop, you'll resent it so much! You are allowed to draw this boundary around your own body.

I do recommend that you continue to talk with him and work on finding OTHER ways to meet his need for touch that you BOTH like. I think it's great that he is going to take some time to think about it and let you know what he specifically wants! That's wonderful. I imagine (and I could be wrong!), but I think that if you are able to find ways to touch him that you both enjoy, he'll be less interested in rubbing on you while you're sleeping, since he'll be getting that need met in a more satisfactory way.

Hugs, HTBH

uuggg my thoughts are so muddled and its hard to explain via typing lol.. Let me try to clearn some things up, I am usually doing this lol.



What I was thinking and not saying, can't ya read my mind lol, is that what I was doing isn't fair because I haven't given him all the information. Ok, that said..



Two things do apply, in some way I probably do stay up to avoid being rubbed on. At the same time, I am just not sleepy until 11 or 12 at night, sometimes later. On the phone earlier, I did explain to him that I part of the reason I do stay up late is to avoid bothering him. I used to go to bed and read but he complained about the light, I tried a different light that I could adjust away but he didn't like it either, So when I am ready for bed, now I'm ready for SLEEP. I also do not wnat to be rubbed on. I guess that's the problem, I get irritated when rubs on me even when we aren't in bed. Last night I was sitting on the couch and he kissed my leg and it just irked me. I feel awful for feeling this way, for not wanting to be touched, but I don't.



Ok, I see what you are saying. Thanks for the clarification.



I've been doing this. He even says the same thing. I'm just not sure he truly gets it, which is undestandable, I still struggle with it also.



In all honesty, this isn't just happening when we are going to bed. It's an issue pretty much all of the time. I don't enjoy being rubbed on and it upsets him. He is asking me to stop rejecting his advances of rubbing on me and I don't know how to do that.

Aren't you lucky that I have the afternoon off work to spend harassing you??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



LOL, OK so I think we're both in agreement on this point, let's move on.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like you have two problems, one is the unwanted touching and one is you guys having incompatible bed times. For the bed time thing, I think your snuggling with him when he goes to bed and then getting back up until you're sleepy is a great idea. My H and I used to do that when I had to get up much earlier than he did -- he would snuggle with me and then get up and read once I fell asleep. And it was MUCH better for me than going to sleep alone.



Again, BTE, it's YOUR body. YOU and YOU ALONE get to decide who touches it and when and how.

It'll probably be easier for you to enjoy his touching once the two of you have found ways for you to touch him that you both like, and once you have really begun to believe that it is not your responsibility to make him happy (because then you won't feel quite so pressured and put upon when he reaches for you). But in the meantime, if you don't want to be touched, you don't have to be touched.

You aren't supposed to do anything you aren't enthusiastic about, right? Since it is a HUGE LB and all that, right? So not only is it a boundary issue, it's a major part of MB.