You don't have to do ANYTHING. Really. You can just say, "H, I hear that you think I never buy you anything." And that's IT. You aren't going to be able to make him agree with you anyway, and it's disrespectful to try to convince him that he's wrong, so why do it? Just let him know you heard him. If he wants to share more with you, he will.



Is that why you did them, to get his appreciation?

That's sort of my point with my little story. I didn't do that stuff before, because I didn't want to. He used to want me to help him pack when he was going on business trips, and I hated to do it (I hate to pack for myself, and I don't like it when he's leaving, so why would I want to pack FOR him??). I didn't offer to get him anything when I was getting myself something, because it usually didn't occur to me and if it did, well, I'm not his mommy. He can get it himself. LOL. I hear you, really I do. I've been there.

Which is what was SO different about this weekend. I just spontaneously felt like doing something nice for him, and I didn't even think about how he would react. I just did it, in a weird way, for ME. And the fact that he did like it was a bonus.

I'm just saying that there is a difference between acting from love and acting from obligation, and I felt it, and you feel it, too, which is probably why you don't want to do anything for him anymore. Because you feel like you HAVE to for some reason. And that's not so much fun.

I'm not saying that you are wrong for not wanting to do things for him. In fact, if you don't want to, it's probably best that you NOT do them right now, because otherwise you'll just build more resentment. I'm just trying to illustrate the difference between acting out of love and acting out of obligation/fear/duty in case you want to choose differently.

Ok, so I don't say anything. This is what somewhat happened when I coached with Penny, we just never talked. We avoided talking because every things we say is disrespectful, or wrong. If I have proof, that something he said is wrong, why is disrespectful to show him the proof?



No, I used to do them because I enjoyed doing nice things for him. It got old quick. You say you did something nice for your dh, fixed him something, now if you fixed him something everyday and he didn't thank you for it, or show that he appreciated it, then eventually it would more than likely get old. I understand that you and LA believe that all of this love and appreciation and being whole comes from within, if that's true, then lovebanks wouldn't really matter would they? Either would the fact that a spouse is cheating and so forth, the truth of the matter is that we need to know we are appreciated by our spouses, we need to know they are trustworthy, isn't it possible to just be plain pissed off at them about something they did, without it relating to being unlovable and inadequate?

I'll ask the same question I asked happy, and I'm sorry for asking, I know most people are frustrated with me, but I'll ask anyways. If I have proof he is wrong, I have receipts say, of when I bought him stuff, why is it wrong to show him? Why is wrong to correct him?



Again, don't all of us have some beliefs that needs to be changed?



I don't understand what you are saying?

Hi BTE,

You asked some hard questions (for me anyway), and it's late, so let me see what I can do here... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



Well, I didn't say not to SAY anything but not to DO anything, as in, you don't have to take action to prove him wrong, you don't have to buy him something to show him that you can buy things for him, or to look for old receipts, or to dig through his closet looking for something that you bought him. Listen to what he says, repeat back to him what you heard, and then stop. See if he wants to say more. If not, move on.

You can't change his mind, BTE, you really can't. You can TRY all you want to show him that he's wrong, and he's not going to believe you unless he wants to. That's why it's a waste of your time. And yes, it is disrespectful to try to straighten your husband out, or to teach him a lesson, or prove he's wrong, or whatever. Harley's section on DJs is pretty clear on that -- it's straight out of the Love Busters book.

You keep saying you aren't his mom, that you don't want a third child. Don't treat him like one. Let his beliefs be his responsibility, OK?



I imagine most of us do, but it's not your job to change someone else's beliefs. You are responsible for yours and yours alone.



Why did you used to enjoy doing those things for him? Why did it get old for you? What were you wanting him to do for you so that you would keep wanting to do stuff for him?

I don't understand what you're asking here. Do things for him when you want to, when you feel like it, and don't do them when you don't. Don't allow yourself to build resentment by doing something when you don't want to. Don't do things for him if you are expecting anything in return. But, if you feel like doing something nice, then do it. No strings attached. It's more fun that way.

As far as what LA and I keep saying about wholeness and loving yourself and how that relates to the Love Bank, I'm not sure I have a coherent answer. Let me try, because it does make sense to me.

Starting from the basic MB principles, I absolutely agree with Harley that if you meet someone's needs, you will add to their Love Bank and they will like you more and more and eventually fall in love with you. And yes, absolutely, you can withdraw from their bank and they will like you less and less as you do so. So far, so good.

Harley also says this about the Love Bank:



How does this relate to loving yourself and being whole? Well, it seems to me that, no matter how hard you try to meet someone's needs, it is THEIR CHOICE whether to be vulnerable enough to let you make deposits to their bank.

So if they have a lot of fears and resentments, it can absolutely interfere with their ability to receive love from you. You can't make them love you.

To turn this back to you for a second, no matter what your H does, if you are not emotionally open to him, he won't be able to make any deposits in your Love Bank.

Some of us are emotionally healthy enough to be able to read the MB principles and put them into practice and see results. Some of us have a little more emotional work to do before it really works. I myself fall into the latter category, which is why I have really been enjoying LA's posts lately.

I am learning to act from love instead of reacting from fear, which to me means no more LBs, and meeting his needs WITHOUT sacrificing my own needs in the process or holding him hostage to my expecations. It means no DJs, to him or to myself. It means that I am able to feel love, for myself and for him, and that I am able to receive the love he is showing to me.

And without really understanding WHY I was reacting to him the way I did, without knowing HOW my old fears and resentments were affecting the way I interpreted the present, I wasn't able to follow the MB principles.

So that's my take on wholeness and the Love Bank. Not being whole interferes with our ability to receive love from our spouses and with our motivation to make the behavior changes so that we can fill their Love Banks.

And yes, of course, it's still possible to be angry with someone due to their current behavior -- that's generally a sign that a boundary has been crossed, and you need to protect yourself/enforce the boundary.


She's saying that, when you give yourself permission to DJ your H, you also give yourself permission to DJ yourself. If you think that he is complaining when he shares with you, then you will also be less inclined to share with him information about yourself, because that would be complaining. DJs go both ways.

So... what do you think? Are you tired of me yet? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Good Morning Happy! It's still early for me this morning,bare with me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />



I guess my fear is that anything I would say would be disrespectful. Not saying anything, to me, would be agreeing with him.



Because it made his day easier for him, it showed him that I appreciated him getting up and going to work every day to take care of us. What got old, when it became expected. Just a thank you every once in awhile would be nice, something that it's appreciated.



I understand what you are saying. Yet, most people have a need to feel appreciated. Admiration is an emotional need. It's something that some people really need.



Thanks for clarifying that for me.



NOpe not at all. Thanks for sharing with me.

Good morning, BTE! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I don't know about you, but I'm still half asleep this morning. Thank goodness for coffee!



What if you just said to him, "H, I hear you saying that you believe I never buy you anything." How about that? It's not disrespectful because you aren't judging his words, just repeating them, but you aren't agreeing with him, either. Just letting him know you heard him.

Here's another great example from my life. LOL. (Let me know if you get tired of these, by the way! I find it easier to talk with examples, but if you don't want to read through all my stories, just let me know!) Anyway, I was telling my H about my day yesterday, and I said I that something my boss did wasn't fair, and H said, "Well, she IS your boss." Which I found pretty annoying. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I would have preferred it if he had said, "So you're saying you don't think it's fair when she does that?" And I would have said "YES!" and then we would have moved on to something else.



Well, sure. Admiration is definitely a valid need, no question. But you can't make him admire you. So you have to either decide to do something for him, without any expectation of getting admiration in return, or you have to just not do it.

Here's another way to look at it -- if you expect him to give you appreciation and admiration when you do things for him, he may come to see giving you admiration to be a chore, too, since it's expected from him. He may start to feel that he has no choice, because you'll get mad if he DOESN'T do it. And then he won't want to give you that appreciation anymore, just like you no longer want to lay out his clothes for him.

Is Acts of Service one of his love languages? It's also possible that he doesn't appreciate acts of service that much because it's not his primary love language. My H is really big into acts of service, and he used to do all this stuff for me, and while I thought it was nice and tried to be appreciative, it didn't really do anything for me, you know? I would much rather he sit down with me on the couch than go around doing things for me, and maybe your H feels the same way.

Thanks for sharing with me -- I really enjoy chatting with you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

BTE, I know that having a stay at home mom is the most awesome thing ever for kids, and I think it's wonderful that you're willing to provide that, but it is a trade off. For most stay at home moms, there is no appreciation the way there is in other jobs. Especially when there you have these other issues going on. Working outside the home doesn't make you any more worthy that a stay at home mom, but the benefits are more tangible. You're not a failure if you need to take a job for a while.

How can you build more appreciation into your life? Work isn't the only way. Is there something else that you can do that would have more tangible rewards, like volunteering or doing service at church? Do you think this would help for a while until you feel it inside more? I know ideally it would come from your spouse, too, but that's not something where you know what the timing is on that.

Ideally, I believe appreciation and admiration come from us to us...and it is sync'd with our intent.

Are we choosing our acts of love to get love...earn it? Then we get the love back into us through admiration and appreciation...how we feel the love.

If we are choosing our acts from love, by choice, then we feel our love, admire our acts and appreciate our significance in this world...in the act, not the response.

When the response is positive, we can feel it double...if it is neutral or negative, then we do not feel it less...it's ours. We did that.

This is why I believe it is important to acknowledge and validate ourselves and stay aware of our choices...self-admiration and appreciation are not detrimental...they are true and part of choosing to act from love towards ourselves.

Only way I could break the cycle I was caught in...giving to get, tit for tat...living based on possible response...which focused my world on another person I had no control over.

LA

EO, that's a great point! There are lots of ways to get appreciation even when you can't count on work or your spouse to provide it.

BTE, is there anything you can do to create that feeling of appreciation? Do you appreciate yourself? I'm serious. When you do something for your family, like feed the girls, or do laundry, or straighten something up, do you thank yourself for your dedication to your family? That would be a great place to start!!

And, I know the girls are pretty young, but is there a volunteer thing you could do together, like taking a Meals on Wheels route, where you do most of the work and they can come along for the ride? That will probably bring loads of appreciation your way -- most organizations are so grateful for their volunteers.

I would say his main love language is gifts. Giving things. He is always buying me stuff. If I say on thats cute, it'sbought, even if I don't want it. It's nothing for him to take me in my fav store and say go pick out a couple of new outfits. I actually dont' like it, and it causes a lot of tension, although I have gotten better about it. For instance, mother's day, I had found out a little store a couple miles up the road has tanning, I mentioned it to him, so he bought me a free month tanning. I only used it a couple times, too hot to go sit in a booth, and he was upset because I didn't use it.

EO,

I am trying to bide my time through the summer. Both of my girls will be in school full time come August. I am looking for at least part time employment, possibly going to school. Not sure what. I am finding that we like to spend entirely too much money, I may go back to work lol...

I don't really enjoy staying home, I think I've mentioned this before. Not sure if it's considered volunteer work, but I do foster for Dalmatian rescue groups. It is rewarding, but dog kisses just aren't the same as people appreciating your work lol.

Again La, this is part of what I don't get. If everything I need and want can come from me, what's the point of being married? I don't need or want him for anything if I can do it all myself.

You take things to extremes, BTE...it is called going to absolutes, and it is what we did as children and have the urge to do as adults, for safety.

What's the point of being married? To get your needs met? What if you don't have any? Is this truly your line of reasoning?

Journies, BTE. Knowing and being known. We've covered this. If you want to spend your life knowing and being only known to yourself, then where's the growing? Where's the lessons? The intimacy of being known and knowing OTHERS.

We choose our intimacy partner to know and be known in all ways, inside out

through sharing...

seeing...

loving...

forgiving...

accepting...

examining...

who we are and how we choose to act...

If you are only you, then you only experience what you experience...

When you're with your partner, you both experience a lot together...through separate filters and souls...present for the same stuff...widens what you know, doesn't it? Same with children...widens more...and both of you have equal love and responsibility to your children for a lifetime...

Can you do all that yourself? Can you have history, experiences, know and be known by yourself?

There's a catch-phrase that bothers me greatly...

"A self-made man. He did it all by himself."

I call that a lie. An impossiblity. Someone fed him in infancy, kept him alive...talked to him and listened...understood and acknowledged...no one does it by themselves. To say all we need is ourselves is to say why would we exist in the first place? We are created human...ironically, for all my separate and equal belief, my ultimate goal is to know the whole of life...being whole and complete in myself, and knowing humans are a whole of something very human, as well...to get to that experience, I can't do it by myself. I need others to experience life with, even as I am locked into experiencing it only through myself...

Relationships are life, BTE. I mean the one with have with ourselves is the most important...you can't experience others if you have no knowledge of yourself...unless you choose to live a life full of judgment (false perception...part of lying to ourselves), expectations, entitlement, justifying, assumptions, mindreading and owning what isn't ours to own...then you'll feel as if you're right and alive and deserving...

I lived that way. I lied to myself that way.

Living honestly is the very freedom I craved to commit to my marriage for life. And to love me, as is.

LA

I feel sad that your posts are full of unhappiness. When a marriage seems to make at least one partner so unhappy for so long, it is not usually the marriage itself that is the problem.

If the marriage was the real problem, you would have divorced years ago. If your husband was the real problem, you would quit complaining about him and get divorced.

I submit, you are unhappy with yourself, with your role in life, with what you chose to do with your life, with who you chose to marry, with where you live, your work or non-work, you are basically an unhappy person. If this is the case, then nothing you do, say, or go to will make you happy, you have to change inside to accept happiness.

And you are not alone, I had to work for many years to discover how to be happy in myself despite anything that was happening in my life. This can be your goal too if you want it to be. To learn why you are so unhappy and to learn to develop an inner peace and happiness.

You can do it! Then everything will look different to you. And you will not be so confused and unhappy. You will focus less on what makes you unhappy and instead be happy within yourself. Good luck I know you can do it. I needed to keep a daily "my feelings and thoughts" journal and supportive counseling to become happier. But it was well worth it.

You are right. I am very either or, not much in between. I have been working on this.



Honestly, yes it is my line of reasoning. Obviously it's flawed.

I know we've been through it all befoer. I apologize for not getting it. I hear what you are saying, I understand what you are saying, I'm just not sure I believe the same thing.

I am beating myself up over this thread, holding it against my dh. Feeling like a failure because I don't get this stuff. I spend half the day crying feeling like I am so screwed up that I am better of being a hermit. Feeling overhwelmed with not understanding, not getting it, failing as usual.

I know its me. I just don't know how to change me. I will figure it out one day.



Thanks Stella!

(((BTE)))

You are saying you believe that you are a failure and that you are screwed up, am I reading you correctly?

pretty much, but i'm working on changing that belief.

Want help in changing that belief, BTE?

You can fail, that can't make you a failure.

You can fail repeatedly...doesn't make you a failure.

You can screw up, doesn't make you one.

You can make a mistake, cannot mean you are one.

We are taught differently...part of the abuse we experience...others defining us...us defining others...to box, contain, from fear...

Humans do damage. Humans do greatness. Humans do. Doesn't make them ANYTHING but human.

LA

I "hear" what you are saying LA. Just trying to change the belief. It's hard to do.

Nothing much new going on with my marriage. We are talking some, interacting some, not arguing, not yelling and screaming.

My oldest daughter, she's 7, is going to a creative arts camp this week. She got to pick what three classes she takes while there, she chose cooking, art, and american girl etiquette. She won a contest today, she a table with china properly the fastest. I couldn't have done that lol. She is having a lot of fun.

We've had people working on our house all week. I'm frustrated but handling it ok. We bought this house brand new. Got here in Jan and it seems everything is wrong with the place. They have already replaced my front door, they are in the process right now of replacing most of my flooring, the other part will be replaced at a later date. They are replacing my tile around my fireplace. Frustrating very frustrating. Right now my stove and washer and dryer are in my garage, my laundry room, pantry, kitchen and dining area are all cement and my kitchen table is in the lliving room in front of the tv. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Yet, I am blessed, I have a roof over my head, lights, water, a bed to crawl into, and food to eat. Definately blessed.