I'm not sure what to do at this time. I don't think blending is really the issue. Dh has been in her life since she was 2.5, she doesn't see nor does she remember her bio dad.

I'm tryin to figure out a few things and thought yall might be able to help me out a bit. I have ZERO desire for sex. Not because of the pain or anything like that, just no desire what so ever. I am ok with holding hands in public, a quick hug and kiss, but want nothing more. Obviously, this is really bothering dh. I just feel nothing when it comes to sex. It's not that he isn't meeting my needs or helping out etc. He does all of that. Ijust honestly don't want to deal with having sex. ANy thoughts?

Hi BTE,

I tried to reply to you the other day but couldn't get MB to work for me... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I know what you mean about how reading here can be counter-productive! Sometimes it gets to be too much of a distraction for me, an escape from my life rather than a tool for living my life better, you know?

Congrats on starting grad school!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hugs,
Happy

BTE, have you read the articles here about From Willingness to Desire? Dr. Harley also talks in detail about lack of desire in HNHN. Also, if you google Sensate Focus therapy, there is an article at the top that describes that. Does that sound like it will help?

Were you able to get to the special doctor to deal with the pain issue? How have you handled your issue with H's weight? Are you stressed from a busy schedule?

BTE,

Little pitchers have big ears.

You're now in the South, so I'm sharing.

ROFL

What does DD8 say when you ask her directly how she feels? What's on her mind?

She may have overheard you two talking about adoption...and misunderstood it...only hear parts...take it from me, an adopted kid, we experience rejection from strangers and unknown...biodad's uninvolvement (and didn't you say it was fear of his involvement from some email contact which prompted you guys to look into getting this done?) can hurt, too. Please don't count out something which may be affecting your DD8...and even she might not have linked it herself. Also, we can feel thrown away, though we aren't being...discarded by biodad, though we don't know him at all...roles are symbols...at our most basic selves, humans are symbols, too...don't have to know them, have them 3-D for us to fill denounced by them.

Since it involves her, she may be acting out on not being involved in her own life...choices...loving your H as her whole dad and ticked off 'cuz it isn't the way it should be...heck, your H IS her dad in her heart and soul...and maybe she doesn't like him not being her biodad...explaining stuff...sharing how adoption corrects this...really does make it legally (certifies) him as her father as if he was born to her.

There can be envy for younger DD having both her parents, the way DD8 wants them to be...lots of other stuff.

You won't know until you ask, listen and repeat, eh?

One of the biggest common struggles is adoption defining us as rejects, defectives...discards. Doesn't make it true or real...feels real. Which is why emphasizing that the court date is to make what is already real (mom, dad, family union) known (public), legal and confirmed.

Won't change what she perceives or feels...she may, though, when she knows her feelings are valid...that stating them beats demonstrating them any day of the week.

"My marriage has it's ups and downs. We seem to work through them, or get over them, not sure what it is. I'm learning to give him space and time to work through his stuff instead of trying to fix it and make it better for him. WHile doing that though, he said he feels ignored, so I'm trying to find the balance, of being there for him, but not being a fixer. Not easy, but I will continue to work on it."

There's conundrum here...respecting his stuff and yours...not trying to fix...you're living from pure respect. Then you say he sometimes feels ignored...because you changed the steps in your dance...that happens. Doesn't mean you are...and you take that as a measure of your own balance. You might BE in balance...respectfully present, not looking to fix...and he may feel ignored. He has his own balance.

I suspect, you're still struggling with fixing internally...by virtue of you taking his perception of being ignored as you not being in balance...which is fixing.

I was a diehard, deep fixer...I snuck it by myself long after I'd committed to living from respect. Believe me. Isn't about balance...about awareness...using your signals (emotions) to signal you when you're in a fixing perspective (owning what isn't yours), though you may not be actively acting in the fixing manner. Kinda like, "There's your sign."

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Great to know...not necessarily to do. Make sense?

What if your greatest fear is your part being TOO easy? Being present in your marriage...in marriage together...counts a lot. Might seem too easy...and it would be if that was the whole of it...it's a sizable half of it, BTE. Don't discount it...it's huge to be listened to, acknowledged, "I hear you saying sometimes you feel ignored now, is that correct?" and thanking him for sharing. Then you sharing, "Wow, I have such an urge to change your feelings right now!" I laughed when I would share this...smile and acknowledge that the urge didn't determine my choice...what I wanted...came from my routine.

In my marriage, we use a lot of real statements...when there isn't a solution to seek (I feel scared...I feel ignored), just stuff to know. "I'm grateful we're in this marriage together."

"I like growing together like this."

"I like trusting you to share your stuff."

Now, about getting signals of down and depressed from reading and posting on MB...do you believe you determine your life from your signals...are led by results? Or do you get your signals?

What is down to you? Is it sadness (mourning human pain and frustration)? Is it MB posts or self-talk inside your head? Comparing yourself, your marriage, your spouse...or seeing how much others do so in their marriages? Trace the signal and let me know, 'cuz it's important. You and your marriage are important.

And you add to the world when you share. You just do.

My heart loves seeing you again...you add to my life.

LA

Hi BTE,

I've been meaning to reply to you but not sure what to say... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm going to give it my best shot anyway! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think LA and EO are onto something when they suggest your DD's behavior might be tied to her feelings about the upcoming adoption. I'd imagine that would be a major event for her, and she might be struggling to work through everything.

Regarding your other question, about not having any interest in sex, I really recommend Passionate Marriage. (I know, I know, you knew I was going to say that!). He talks about the dynamics of relationships, and how saying "no" to sex can be a first step in reclaiming your "self" that you feel you gave away in the relationship, and how to get your self back without having to remain celibate for the rest of your life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think your specific answer to the why-don't-I-want-to-have-sex question will depend a lot on what sex means to you, and what you want your sex life to look like, and how much your actual sex life resembles your ideal one, and how your body is doing physically, and so on.... all that stuff all tied up together probably explains why you're not interested in sex right now.

One of my favorite parts of Passionate Marriage is that he says, if you're not interested in sex, there's probably a really good reason why you're not! He doesn't imply that there's something wrong with you for not wanting to, or that you should just do it anyway or try to force yourself, but rather that you should understand the mechanics behind your lack of desire and then decide what you want to do about the situation.

Good luck!

Hugs, Happy

I have looked for the articles and haven't been able to find them. Do you have a link to them?



Yes I've been going to the dr. the pain is getting better. Not gone, but better.

There's nothing I can do about my dh's weight. I just deal with it.

I'm always stressed <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

She says nothing and cries, which just makes me mad.



See, I still don't have a desire to be close to him like this.



Mostly I get angry and frustrated. I probably see a lot of me in people, judge them, judge me. I shake my head at how people can continue to stay in a marriage, come on here, complain day after day, but do nothing to change, or they try to change so much, just to make their spouse happy and lose who they are.

Ok, I think I found the article. The one with "mary". I read it. The difference is she wants to want it more. I have no desire to. I don't want to spend 3 nights a week trying to be aroused. I have no desire for affection or for my husband to touch on me. I think it's time for me to step away again. I allow MB to be unhealthy for me.

BTE, I think sharing that perspective would be good to know, good to share. Because that person may well feel that way too, but be ashamed to admit it, feel like it's not okay to feel that way. You could help them find their voice, you know? Or if they disagree, talking about it out loud helps to clarify why the person disagrees.

That's awesome that going to the doctor has been helping! Is there some point in the future where you'd be pain-free?

BTE,

"See, I still don't have a desire to be close to him like this."

As HTBH put it so well...Intimacy is knowing who you are and sharing yourself.

It is what we do as humans...not for others...for ourselves. How we know and grow...the act of sharing is stating your existence...so you don't do it to be close to him...you don't control the distance...only how far away you step. And how far away you step from yourself.

Even our desires come from our beliefs...tracing our desire not to is as necessary as tracing our desires to...

That unyielding two-way street...not a choice. What you do not do for others, you do not do for yourself. What you do for others, you do for yourself.

Would you consider sitting with DD8 while she cries...and let her crying be hers? Share silence until she speaks? Be present? Use the time to trace where your anger comes from? What its signalling to you? Then know and share your whole truth with DD8...not dependent on if or when she shares with you?

I don't believe we can ever lose who we are...we can definitely change a lot on how we perceive and are perceived. And we can dismantle self-image...which is not losing who we are...definitely can feel like it.

What if you MB'd on just this thread and HTBH's and EO's? Limited what you allowed through reading...or know why you read what you do?

Self-care...you know it's your choice.

Would you consider a parallel here? You stay silent and do not share with your H...and your DD8 does the same.

LA

Hi BTE!

Are you still out there?


I hear you on this one! The "willingness to desire" articles don't do much good if you aren't already feeling "willing", do they? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Frankly, I'm not real keen on the idea of being a 3-night-a-week arousal experiment, either, so I get where you're coming from. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

That's why I found Passionate Marriage to be a little more helpful -- it says it's NORMAL not to want intimacy, and helps you to understand why you don't, and then leaves it up to you to decide whether your lack of desire is a problem for you. For example, if your H wants SF, and you don't, but you want to stay married to him, then your lack of desire might indeed be a problem for you. Or maybe it's not. It's really up to you to decide.

Plus, and I think you'll like this, the author isn't big on digging into the past. His attitude is that we heal the past by making changes in the present, so his focus is on your actions and thought processes NOW, and on your strengths rather than your weaknesses. It's much more affirming than reading that something is wrong with you or that you're broken due to your past. He believes that everyone is NORMAL and WHOLE and CAPABLE of making any changes they desire, which is really refreshing to me personally. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I really resonated with this point of view, that we're not all a bunch of screwed-up losers who can't manage a relationship, but that we're a bunch of whole, capable human beings whose marriages present unique opportunities for growth that we can seize -- and thus help us learn to operate from our strenths rather than our weaknesses. Ties in really well with LA's thread about the villagers, why we have them, that having them doesn't make us bad or defective, all that great stuff. (LA, seriously, you gotta pay that library fine and read this book! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

Hugs!
Happy

Thanks, HTBH...I know I do...I really do.

Appreciate the nudge.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Every time I read here, I feel more and more like a failure. Like I'm trying to live up to everyone elses expectation.Even though, I don't believe anyone expects anything of me. Being something I am not. I feel like everything I do is wrong. That the way I am is just screwing up my childrens life. I haven't had sex with my husband in almost 2 months. I have no desire to. I want to be left alone. Dh and the kids are out of town this weekend. I enjoy it. Alone, quiet. I am not made to be a wife and mom. I don't want people to want or need anything from me. I feel weighed down when they do. I feel liek I have to carry everything that is not mine when they ask for something from me. I get irritated that I have to help with homework, and make lunch and cook dinner, and do all the things that moms and wives are supposed to. Then I come here and see other people who do it and enjoy it and then I hate myself that much more because I don't like doing it. Then one of my kids will give me a hug or a kiss, and I feel awful for feeling the way I do. Like I might be punished for these thoughts I have and if I am it may be too late to change the way I feel.

You have described depression to me...what I felt and how I saw my life for years...it's a downward spiral which crept lower and lower...not freefall at all.

I was full to choking of shoulds, have to's, shouldn'ts, and oughts...and I got to where I was inert from pressure, not failing but being a failure...being defective...being wrong.

I remember, BTE. I really do. For me, it was like fearing my H and children might know the real me...the inert one, incapable, a fake and a monster. My own grinding to a halt was my true self's way of saying...help...here I am...at the same time, showing how much I despised who I thought I was...

Which was still my self helping me...because I was loved, anyway.

When your kids give you a hug or a kiss from their gratefulness of your presence, that says you are being loved, anyway. Appreciated, connected to and their act of belonging to and you belonging to them.

They keep doing that, BTE...their choice. You really don't get a say.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You come here and compare yourself...and you compare in your mind to your expectations, your image...your belief wrapped up and twisted with shoulds and have to's...

I remember. I did that.

I worked so hard to find comfort through judgment...comparison, external standards...wishful child images. I was bundled up with trying to force myself to act like so I could be like...and it unravels, every time.

Without IC, crisis and support from posters like you, BTE...I couldn't have gotten out of that...not even knowing I'm choosing my perspective, just bound up in living from the result of it...my feelings. Seeing everything as permanent that was temporary.

I remember. You're not alone. You never have been.

LA

(((BTE))) I am so sorry that you are going through this. Better days are ahead. I am glad that you are not alone. What do you think when LA suggests looking at the possibility of depression? Does it sound like still more work to do, to diagnose, to find a treatment that will help? Does it sound so overwhelming? You're not alone, BTE. Reach out, ask for help. Your H and others will be there for you.

There are other things that are going so well in your life. I was in Bible study Friday, and one of the members was a counselor for sexually abused girls and women for many years. He said that one thing that he would do is have the woman write on the board all the people who are and were in their life. And then cross out the names of the abuser(s). Then, to take a step back, and see how much support that person has, all the people on the board who meant them no harm, there to help. He talked about how much our perspective has gotten skewed to the actions on one or a few people, instead of all the kindness we've been shown. What do you think? Would an exercise like that help you?

Stopping by real quick.. It's been a long busy week. The adoption was finalized on Jan 30. On the 31st we rec'vd another email from the bio dad. Same story, we stop him from having a relationship with her. It's all our fault. What has stopped him the entire time is I said that it had to be done through the court, so everyone was protected. He refused to go to court. But it's my faul. Well, for now, I don't have to worry about it.

DD4 was very sick. She missed all this past week of school and 2.5 days the week before. She has an ear infection that we can't seem to get to go away. Finally saw her ENT and he said that her tube is blocked. We are trying meds to get it unblocked, if it doesn't work then she will have to have surgery again. On top of the ear infection, it seems she caught a virus, Parvovirus, also known as fifths disease or slap cheek disease. This on top of the ear infection caused her to run a fever of 101- 104 for almost 5 days straight. She is doing much better now, and is only dealing with the ear infection, but she has been fever free for two days. I also managed to get sick again. Started feeling bad wed, I knew I had bronchitis again. Went to the dr. Thurs. sure enough bronchitis, plus something viral and sinus issues. I didn't work thurs or fri. I had a fever and was contagious.

With almost $300 is dr and prescription bills over the last two weeks, a house in shambles because of sickness, I am stressed out again. I am trying to remind myself daily that, we will make it. It's not the end of the world.

So, that's where we are now.

Just checking in.

Still working. Dh and I are still having problems. We are working on them though. Has a lot to do with me working, him feeling neglected and unloved. Both of us feel like we are in the wrong place here. We want to leave, but we don't want to run. If that makes sense. It's hard to figure out the balance. Three years for me to finish school seems like a looong time. Yet, we aren't ready to move at all, especially financially. I'm not sure I"m ready to move emotionally either. Both of the girls have asked to move. THey don't like it here either. I wonder how much of that is from hearing us though.

As usual, life is crazy...

Have some issues I'm trying to work through. I am being open with dh about them. NOt trying to protect him anymore. Before I would just shut down and cry. He would have no idea what's wrong. I've been honest with him about how I feel. There really is nothing he can do for me, but at least he is aware now. The main issue is my feelings after we have sex. I feel guilty, dirty, like I don't deserve to feel good.

Another issue is his friend S. The one that I have discussed before. She still doesn't honor his request for her to call the house first. They have also been talking a lot lately. They are both working nights so they spend quite a bit of time on the phone at night. She is also having problems with her marriage. I'm not very comfortable with the situation. I have expressed that. Well today, she sent me a message, asked me if I would recommend her going to a swingers club? I haven't talked to her in over 4 years and that's the message she sent me? And that's all it said. Ok, so obviously, my dh has shared with her some pretty private stuff. Stuff that noone was supposed to know about. He denies it, old ways, lying to avoid me being upset. Why else would she send me that message?

WEll, when I read it, I got angry. I didn't want to talk, I wanted to process my anger first. At first I was angry at him, but I had to check myself and see if I was really angry with him, or angry with myself for even allowing that part of my life. (I should clarify neither of us ever had sex with anyone else while at a swingers club). I am hurt that he would share that with her, not angry, just really hurt. I am embarrased about it, I am ashamed of it. But it's done and over with. I still feel uncomfortable that he is discussing these things with her.

I took an hour to think things through. He gave me that space. It worked well. It allowed me to work through a few things, avoided a huge fight. I was able to calm down and really decide what was bothering me, instead of just blowing up and screaming and yelling. Baby steps, right?

I'm glad you checked yourself...and when you worked it through, did you share with him? Big kudos on not failing your standards...no AOs and no DJs...I don't call that baby steps...I call that class. Respect. Please congratulate yourself.

Did you also share that this is a marital boundary violation?

S's husband needs to be told of his wife's question...be a friend of the marriage and call him. Give him this website, too.

When your H shares intimate stuff with a member of the opposite sex...working at night, talking to her, not to you, then that's a marital violation...it is. It opens doors...and your H needs to choose whether he wants to work on his own marriage or hers...because if he's working on supporting her in hers, then he's violating her marital boundaries and her H needs to know.

Respect his choice to do so...state truth...that is what he's doing...he is opening himself up to an affair when he allows someone else to meet his EN for conversation, nurturing and support...you are his confidante...and you're being safe to be shared with.

He's vulnerable right now feeling neglected and unloved. Mind you, you are loving him...make that quality time to connect...up to him to feel loved, appreciated, admired and necessary...because he IS...keep sharing, owning and figuring out where your signals are coming...yes, they are coming from you about you...and in there, part is for your marriage. There is a reasonable threat...and I would take her question as an attack...I believe it was...please enforce your boundaries and share that truth with her husband.

Great to see you...I believe in you.

LA

I haven't shared yet. Still not feeling real safe to do so. He said he asked her why she asked me. Supposedly, she just wanted my opinion. He swears that he never discussed our past with her. I told him that I feel I am being lied to. He didn't like hearing it, but he accepted it.



I don't know her husband. NOr do I know how to contact him. S only calls from work or her cell phone.



I agree. I should clarify that she doesn't live in the same state as we do. Not that an EA isn't possible. That's what happened with his last EA. He felt hurt and pushed away by me and started sharing with another woman, who happened to be his ex-fiance. He told me that I should stay on the phone with him at night. That they both work nights, are bored and are in the same career field. Most of the time, it's late at night after I am asleep. Still doesn't sit right with me. There was a 56 minute conversation between the two of them last night. 4 phone calls to or from her the night before. They weren't long conversations, but it adds up.



I have really been trying to show him love, the way he likes it. I brought him dinner at work Fri and Sat night. Today, I cooked him a meal to eat before he left, and then made him a wrap and packed some snacks and drinks for work. He claimed it was just a "hamburger". I HATE cooking, just a hamburger to him is a big deal to me. I started his work clothes in the laundry etc.. Trying to show him, I just feel like he is an endless pit. Had SF with him yesterday morning when he came home from work, cuddled with him on the couch today before he left to work.

Last month there were only 5 outgoing calls to her. Which I don't believe is a huge amount. I can't see the number of incoming calls. I still believe that he is opening himself up.