I came across this on www.divorcebusting.com and was shocked at how well it fit my WEH. It filled in so many pieces of the puzzle that didn't seem to fit here with the standard MB affair. I understand what is happening to him so much better now and why he is doing the crazy things he is doing. Just like MB affairs, a lot of the MLC's are also predictable, generally speaking. I had to post this - I hope it helps others.

The six stages of a mid life crisis

Now remember, each MLC is different and won't be navigated in the SAME way as others. The time frames, stages gone through/not gone through, everything could be a totally DIFFERENT story. Some will come through faster than others, some will be slower. Some might exhibit one stage at a time, some might exhibit MORE than one. This gives you an IDEA of what to expect, but don't take it as whole truth. Each person is DIFFERENT, and the differences WILL show up.

DENIAL It could be as short as a month or as long as six months to play out this stage
ANGER The anger stage can last from 3 to 9 months
REPLAY The Replay stage is the LONGEST of the stages, and can last up to two years or even longer, DEPRESSION From around two and a half months to possibly six months
WITHDRAWAL Three months to one year.
ACCEPTANCE


1st Stage of a Mid Life Crisis
DENIAL
The word Denial should speak for itself, as the person in this stages denies their feelings pretty strongly. In a Mid Life Crisis, however there are several things that are denied; one is the fact he/she is getting older, and their bodies either don't work as well as they used to or don't look as good as it used to, and they feel "used up", but are even trying to fight that feeling. They don't want to face the fact they are "wearing out" and they can't do the things they used to do anymore. They had always, up to this point, felt they were still in their prime or youthful, and was ignoring the aging that was sneaking upon them.

When it finally hits home, they panic and some consider using plastic surgery to enhance the illusion-or going on a buying spree for new clothes that don't exactly fit someone their age-and usually end up spending a great deal of money on other things. All in a effort to "buy-off" the aging process-it only leads to the next stage-Anger.

They look at their children, and in their mind's eye, they are STILL small, never mind they are now teen-agers that are on the verge of growing into adulthood, and so therefore they attempt to treat the young man or young woman as they did when they were three or four years old--only the teen is probably about 13-18, and starts to rebel against being treated like a small child, which increases the confusion of the Mid Lifer-they go on to try and make up for lost time, only to find rejection at the hands of their teen-agers, and though they are hurt, they react in the only way they know how-Anger

Then there's the spouse of the Mid Lifer-he/she doesn't look the same as she did-as the Mid Lifer ages, so does the spouse, and we cannot help what heredity does to our looks; but their spouses are also a REFLECTION of them, how they have treated them, what they have given or with-held, and they begin to deny what they are seeing, thinking if they had it to go all over again they might have married someone else and been happier than they are now-never mind it's not true- and that leads to the next stage--Anger

This stage is mostly quiet storming inside their heads, no one knows what they are thinking, only that they have become withdrawn somewhat because of their minds being so active, and they are not talking, so no one has any clue what's happening until the Anger stage begins. If asked, they will tell you they are fine, and if you listen closely, their answers are a little short-tempered; because they just want to be left alone to think it all out.

I have not included being unhappy within their jobs in the stage of Denial, because I don't think dissatisfaction with the job begins until the Anger stage-To be totally honest, I didn't see my husband's dissatisfaction really come to the surface until the tail-end of Replay, although it showed while he was IN Replay-in small spurts.
It could be as short as a month or as long as six months to play out this stage.


2nd Stage of a Mid Life Crisis
ANGER
While the Mid Lifer is in the stage of Denial, it is actually preparing him/her for this next stage, it seems be a "set up" or the seeds of Anger are actually planted by being in that first stage.
Regardless, the anger begins to set in, reality hits somewhat and the Mid Lifer begins to be really angry at the "lot" he/she has been cast in this life. And they have a tendency to forget that others have the same problems-they begin to be selfish, lashing out at others, not caring how much they hurt the people that are closest to them, even lashing out at their bosses, not caring if they are fired or not-it does NOT matter to them, and they really don't even know WHY they are angry. The irritability alone wears on them and they react with MORE anger-not really understanding it, but just going on with it, thinking they are saying what they really feel for the first time in their lives; walking all over anyone who stands in their way.

They begin to think "run-away" thoughts, angry at their perception that they are "stuck" in the same dead-end job, year after year, after year; angry their children have grown up without them, angry their spouses aren't what they think they ought to be, angry that life has dealt them such a cruel blow, angry because they feel "stuck" and "trapped" in the life THEY chose in their youth. Angry because it dawns on them, that they ARE growing older, and there's not stopping the aging process.

They begin to think if they could just CHANGE their life, they would be happy, but even the thought of change, makes them angrier. They look for outside sources to blame for this unhappiness they feel inside, and guess who gets the "brunt" of that anger-their husband/wife-the one who has seen them through many things during the marriage.

Their anger takes the form of small criticisms to begin with and gradually gets bigger and bigger, and the fights escalate into possibly throwing things against the walls, making impossible demands-their spouse begins to walk on "eggshells"--the withdrawal gets worse, they can barely speak to one another without a fight breaking out from the "sane" spouse saying or doing the wrong thing.

It begins to feed their justification and reasoning, and most will find a "friend" and develop that friendship, never dreaming it will escalate into something out of control-the Replay affair. Others will begin to take drugs, drink, continue with their quest for youth, and search of self....etc.



The next stage, Replay, and the Anger Stage OVERLAP, just as Denial and Anger did. Each one has the seeds of the next and the one before.

And all of the angry outbursts gradually set things up for the next stage---Replay
The anger stage can last from 3 to 9 months.


3rd Stage of a Mid Life Crisis
REPLAY
Now, Replay can take many forms, from Affairs, to a search for youth, catching up on "lost" time - although you can never "catch up" what you have lost in that time - but they don't know that.

They are still searching for outside sources to blame for their misery, and Replay is a perfect time for a totally stable man to go crazy and start an affair - although the SEEDS for this affair were probably planted while in the Anger stage. They will still try to reconnect with children, or if they were close to their children, distance from them. It is also during this time they become the total "opposite" of what they were, before they entered the tunnel, back in Denial. They undergo a gradual change in the first two stages, going from what they were to the direct opposite during this time. They will do things their husbands/wives never thought they would do.

Besides the affair, they will feel "entitled" to what they take, regardless of who they hurt, or how much of a financial bind they put their families in. Their reasoning becomes "Well, I have taken care of people my whole life, now it's time for ME to have fun."

The emotions, during this time, are in play, in a way they never have been, and they don't understand what's going on, and so they panic and "run"; but the running they do will rock the very foundation of a marriage.

They may drink, take drugs, curse God for what He "has done" to them - have multiple affairs, failing to see what they are doing that's so wrong-still with the attitude of it being "my" time now.

The "bomb" can and will be dropped during this time, shocking the sane spouse who probably had NO idea that anything was wrong, and the problems begin to escalate, as "crying and begging" ensues, and the Mid Lifer turns away, secure in his "reasoning" for his behavior and /or the affair/drinking/drugs/money spent.

Their behavior can disrupt the most settled of families, most especially the affair - the Mid Lifer's reasoning is that he/she thinks they have "missed out" when really, they haven't, and the other woman/other man, they can/will get involved with will NOT be what they wanted all along, but they won't see that until they experience an "awakening" that gives them a direction, and starts them along the path to facing their issues; opening the door for the stage of Depression.

As long as the Mid Lifer continues "replay" behaviors they are nowhere near to being ready to start their way out of the tunnel; the "awakening" they have IF they come to it, is a "turning point" to beginning their journey out of the tunnel.

When the "awakening" occurs, they begin to suffer the next stage - Depression, and it is a low point of the Mid Lifer's journey.

The Replay stage is the LONGEST of the stages, and can last up to two years or even longer, depending upon the "replay" behaviors used during this time.


4th Stage of a Mid Life Crisis
DEPRESSION

Now, we have traveled through the first three stages, and during those stages, the issues that are inside the Mid Lifer have STILL not been looked at.

This is the stage where the Mid Lifer is faced with the issues he/she are beginning to face, and quite frankly, they feel like failures.

Nothing has helped the first three stages-everything they have tried has NOT turned to gold, on the contrary everything has turned to stone, for lack of a better word to describe their running-and now comes the time to begin to face their damage, and this is done inside-because that is what Depression is-anger turned inward.

Their hormones are out of whack, due to physical changes, and that makes them feel worse. Their self-esteem is shot all to pieces, and they feel like failures. They wonder if they will ever be worth anything to anyone. Some are in so much pain, they commit suicide, some get smart and get anti-depressants to help them begin to clear their thinking processes, some suffer in silence, thinking nobody understands them or will understand what they are going through-and so it goes on.

They will be on the verge of tears, most of the time, pacing the floor, losing sleep, afraid of the dark-or maybe what's in it; unable to escape negative thoughts, cutting themselves down in word and action. Extreme guilt may compound this stage, and there is so much pressure, they become forgetful, irritable, want to be left alone, somewhat argumentative, sometimes unresponsive-want to take long drives, sit looking out the window-their silences are long and painful, as they don't want to talk about it preferring instead to think and brood.

You must understand they will come through this or they won't. No one can "make" them come out until they are ready. Pestering them only makes them draw inside further, and they need the space to work within themselves, trying to understand some of what has happened; the parts they can face, anyway, besides resolving issues that are inside them, from childhood and/or otherwise. Understand, also, this journey must continue to made alone, no one can "fix" it or "do it for them."

Pieces of the next stage are contained within, and Withdrawal begins to come to the fore as each individual issue is faced-it is a gradual slide from Depression to Withdrawal or both stages can occur together.

The Depression stage can last from around two and a half months to possibly six months, depending upon the severity of the depression they are suffering.


5th Stage of a Mid Life Crisis
WITHDRAWAL

Now, the Mid Lifer has been beginning to face his/her issues while in Depression, and what they've seen has NOT been pretty. They've done so MUCH damage, and don't really know how to "fix" it, and that has made them even MORE depressed.

So, for a time, they conclude that life is not worth much, and so they "drop out" of life or WITHDRAW, hence the stage of Withdrawal.

It is also during this time, they will navigate obstacles and question themselves, somewhat, working their way toward what is called the "final fears" Not much is known about what the final fears contain-I think it is beginning to accept the death of everything they have ever known, including the death of their "old" lives; AND beginning to accept their own mortality without being afraid of it-Depression sets them up for this journey across an open field toward an archway to face these fears. During this time, they will NOT communicate with ANYONE, not even their spouse, as they are drawn so far within, no one can reach them. They MUST be allowed to continue, with NO interruptions, just like before-they will NOT come out until they are READY to come out.

Just like in Depression, they want to left alone, still processing their issues and the damage they have done to their spouse and their lives, and they make several decisions during this time concerning their lives, job, and marriage. But those WON'T be known UNTIL they break Withdrawal and talk to their spouse the first time

They are still secretive, somewhat asserting their privacy, much like a teen-ager, but during this time, they must be gently but firmly led along, and only when the time is right-a wrong word at the wrong time will cause them to "stick" within the tunnel.

You will see some Depression and Anger within them, they are mostly angry at themselves, but will take it out on you, and there are times you will have to be quiet and just leave them alone; letting them work things out, and they usually will, as the answers, such as they are STILL come from within them, not outside sources.

As they begin to come forward, they will begin the journey out of the tunnel-entering the first stage of Acceptance.

Withdrawal can last from three months to one year.


6th Stage of a Mid Life Crisis
ACCEPTANCE

The Mid Lifer has navigated through five stages of his/her Mid Life crisis by now, and begins into the final stage--Acceptance.

Now, Acceptance is entered in "Stages" Three, to be exact.

Stage ONE involves the disintegration of his/her personality, the "veil" is lifted showing the Mid Lifer EVERYTHING, no holds barred, and he/she realizes for the first time just how much damage has been done to their marriage, lives and spouse. The spouse will be surprised to see "children" surface, as well as "flashes" of the "old" personality, "new" personality, good AND bad personalities. I have described it as similar to schizophrenia, Three faces of Eve, etc.

But, I promise they are NOT crazy, this is what is MEANT to happen, for the Mid Life Crisis extracts a CHANGE, and the disintegration is a part of it, as they are FORCED to look at every facet of their personalities and make some permanent changes. The key to helping them through is to ACCEPT what you see as it comes forth, and don't ridicule or shame them-you will see little kids picking their nose for example--I saw this happen. They will apologize for everything under the sun, and try really hard to make up for the damage; for a little while.

Now during stage TWO of Acceptance, will come the temptations to want to go back to what they came out of. The silence of the spouse is most important during this time-all you can do is be understanding and patient with them as this MUST happen and they MUST come through alone.
They will SEEM to be going backward, but aren't, this is necessary for them to move forward.
It is during this time they will "revisit" ALL stages of the Mid Life Crisis except Denial and shuts the "doors" to each stage PERMANENTLY one by one, never to return.
If they give in to temptation OR get spooked by their final fears, they WILL run BACK into the tunnel a little ways. But they can only run back as far as the doors have NOT been closed permanently; most of the time they just run back as far as WITHDRAWAL, but will continue the process to come out once they feel "safe" to continue. So, they must be allowed to come through WITHOUT interruption, no matter what happens.

Stage THREE involves the "archway" I spoke of in the Stage of Withdrawal-all this time the Mid Lifer has been coming across this open field toward this Archway, where his "final fears" are located and he finally begins to face these fears in full-he may come out of the tunnel and face them BEFORE he/she shuts the door to Depression/Withdrawal or afterwards. But he will have to face them, nevertheless, before he exits to begin his complete healing process.

It takes awhile for the Mid Lifer to get settled down, even after he/she comes out of stage three of the Acceptance stage-they will experience a final "rebelling" before they settle down for good.

It is much like a teen-ager who has passed into manhood/womanhood-there are still final changes that must be made, especially for the one who has done so much damage during the crisis itself.

But if he/she can settle everything within themselves, their lives should be marked with a sense of peace, instead of the anguish they have known for as long as they were within the crisis. And they will have learned many things concerning life, and will be changed permanently as they will NEVER be the same, ever again.

Although this is a useful tool to give you an overview of what's going on during MLC, I would strongly advise anyone to take it 100% as a given. Conway came up with this after reading the work of Elizabeth Kübler-Ross and he saw that the stages of grieving could also be applied to MLC; after that, someone on one of the MLC forums (don't know who) added their 2 cents' worth to it. Well - Kübler-Ross was the first person to say that people had taken her research on the stages of grief too literally, and people didn't always experience them all, or in order, or just once, or for determined periods. The same applies to this. I have been neck high in MLC research for many months, and have talked to hundreds of MLCers and MLCer spouses, and have yet to meet ANYONE who moved through all these emotions, in order, as if they are "stages" on a journey.

RT, Thanks for the feedback. It does give a disclaimer that not every MLC goes through every stage or in the order. I used to think MLC meant a middle aged man in a bad rug groping young girls. I am coming to realize it is one of the most painful passages in life, for both spouses.

What else have you uncovered in your research? I think mine is stuck in "replay", as in replaying his youth. That has been a very painful part of his affair for me because he is basically reliving our courtship with this "thing" that I am coming to despise. He takes her to all the same "type" of places we went to and even buys her the same "type" gifts. For instance, took her to an art fair and bought her a handcrafted ring. Used to do the same for me. He is giving away everything that belonged to us. Why does he have to do the same things? If he wanted a change, why isn't he doing it differently? It makes no sense to me because he was the one who didn't want to go out or do things much anymore. Now he's doing it all again, but with some skank. In a bizarre way, I feel like he's dating me again through her, if that makes sense.

The other day he was at the house and picked up a "Rasta" wig he has. I asked why he needed it. He told me he is going to a conference and they are having karaoke. I shuddered and let a DJ slip by likening him to a mutual friend who will never grow up. He has also taken to wearing a Grateful Dead belt and hemp bracelets. There is a new pair of rock climbing shoes that will never see the side of any cliff. Let's see, there is also more drinking and going to "pubs", microbreweries, etc. I watch it all as if it is a movie, happening to someone else. My son and I are off to the side. I'd like to wave and say Yoo Hoo, over here! Remember us? Wife and kid? Used to live with you? Formerly known as family?

That's why I love the six stages description. I don't care so much where it came from, it fits! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

So did I. Alas! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Too much to list here! Among my faves is this:

They have low self esteem.
They are very unhappy inside.
They are very angry inside.
They have a low self image.
They have suppressed their inner feelings for many years.
The seeds for MLC were planted in childhood.
They feel as if they have been controlled their whole life.
They feel their feeling were never validated.
They have feelings of being inadequate or not good enough.
They feel that during childhood they did not receive nurturing or a special love from their parents.
They have feelings of rejection and abandonment that haunt them from childhood.

There's heaps more at Divorcebusting, and of course www.fortysixty.org. I have also got a LOT from Jed Diamond's books and Gail Sheehy's Men's Midlife Passages and Terrence Real's book on male depression.


Weird, isn't it? Yep, it could well be replay. It can also be the fact that he might want a change, but like all MLCers, he will change the stuff *outside him*, not within (new woman, new clothes, new activities, etc.). What's actually within him is the same old, same old. HE doesn't want to change. He's going to continue doing the same thing. Except that he's about to learn that unless he is the one who implements the change, he will NOT find what he's so desperately seeking.


Bizarre. But you know... sometimes it's best to just pop some popcorn, sit back, and enjoy the show. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for posting this my WH displays soooo many of these characteristics.



Its a frustrating show to watch. Just like the horror flick where the stupid girl drops the knife next to the killer and then turns her back. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Inevitably these discussion start off ok by attemtpting to list diagnostic indicators of MLC but almost always devolve into disrespectful judgements about just having to wait it out.

This is one of the most dangerous times in one's marriage and life.

It is frighteningly real to the person going through it. Having a spouse that doesn't take it seriously (just sit back a pop some popcorn) make it that much worse.

Is anyone interested in what the non-MLC spouse might be able to do to help their MLC spouse make it through this without self destructing?

YES! If you have information or insight please pass it on.

Thanks, Shattered and RiverTam, for the interesting info. My STBXWH's behavior fits, too. Despite the fact that we should be divorced soon, I still feel sorry for him and what he's done to his life. Even now, five years later, he seems to be derailed somewhere, though I really don't know what he's doing as we've had NC for about 3 years.

Low Orbit, You're right. I used to read all the MLC posts looking for answers, but often ended up just DJ'ing WH.

Yes, I do have some. First off, don't buy into the "foolish phase" thinking. MLC is a serious re-evaluation of one's life. The person in MLC may seem temporarily insane because they are questioning everything about who they have become.

When I was struggling with mine, I had lots of crazy feelings. When I tried to share these with my wife, she often laughed or told me I was over-reacting to things. I was seriously afraid of what was happening to me and she was laughing about it!

I felt disrespected and abandoned. I felt unloved and unaccepted. The stage was perfectly set for an affair.

When a spouse is in MLC, they need a cheerleader. They need someone to encourage them to explore themselves in healthy ways. They want someone who will accept them despite new and sometimes strange new ideas. I talked about a lot of things...that's all I wanted to do...talk.

If your spouse wants to try new clothes, go shopping with them. If they want to bounce new ideas off of you, listen without being judgemental...let them know it's safe to talk about but don't give up your own boundaries. If they want to make big changes, talk through them.

Let them know that you are there with them no matter what they decide to do with their life. Let them know that what they think is important to you.

Whatever you do, do not treat them like children or you won't have the chance to treat them like a spouse again.

Just an example from my own experience: I was deeply and profoundly hurt by some events in our church. It led me to question my identity and who I had become. My W thought it was just a little tiff that I would get over and refused to acknowledge my deep hurt. This created a chasm between us that I don't think ever really healed.

Things just got worse from there.

oh never mind... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Low:

When I read your posts about your MLC, I always think you are my H...sounds like you are quoting him verbatim...

I hope women out there are listening....

How about if H doesn't realize he is in MLC? He just withdrawls...he gives 1 or 2 word responses.

I know he is worried (insecure?) about his work. I've tried to be supportive. How can I support him when he won't talk about it? On the few occassions he has talked about...I listen w/undivided attention, ask questions to try and get a better understanding, I don't tell him what to do or say he should have done differently. He got a great evaluation...I congratulated him, I told him that I was proud of him , I said I was really glad that he got that kind of recognition...I didn't ask if that meant he was getting a raise. (In the past he accused me of ONLY caring about his paycheck) Yet he still says I am unsupportive.

So how do you support someone who doesn't recognize they are in crisis?

LowOrbit, Thanks. I reacted to my WH out of my fear of him destroying his life and taking me down with him. He started hanging around with a group of much younger employees, bought a Harley, started drinking/using again after many years of being clean and sober, became increasingly verbally abusive, intermittently suicidal, and then suddenly left and moved in with MOW.

Despite all this, I did try to be understanding, especially prior to his moving out, and supported a number of his changes (couldn't get into the rap music, though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). But, too often I reacted to him like a wayward teenager - which is kind of how he seemed. As far as I know, he's never come out of it and it's been over 5 years since he left, longer since MLC-type behavior began.

Excuse me LowOrbit, but I have BLED through my WH's MLC for the past year and the idea that I don't take it seriously is a judgement call you are NOT authorized to make.

Yeah: sometimes you DO pop some popcorn and sit back and watch. When the outward manifestation is something that is not serious enough for you to rip your hair out and yet too puzzling to properly examine, the best recourse is to just watch it play out. I'm sorry that if as an ex MLCer this offends you, but let me tell you that just as people who suffer cancer find humor in things that the rest of us might find macabre, so do the spouses have to find humor in a situation that will drive us insane, such as with a lighthearted comment like mine, or the "MLC for Dummies" post that was posted a little while ago. And believe me: because an MLCer is so divorced from his true feelings (ie. overwhelming depression) it is more likely that the spouse will go insane before he does.

When spouses of MLCers turn up at the various support sites, the first advice given is NOT a list of things to do to help their MLC spouse. The first thing they are told is to detach with love (which takes A BLOODY LONG TIME and full-on efforts), and to look after themselves (I say in every way: spiritually, emotionally, physically, and mentally). The focus needs to be on the self, just as the MLCer is focused on the self. Only THEN can the spouse do anything, because any support offered to the MLCer - let alone just survival through this time - needs to be from a place of supreme strength.

Support for the MLCer involves pretty much what Plan A here would involve: warmth, friendliness, openness, lightness (ie. NO relationship talk), and support. It does NOT involve any kind of "reasoning" or mention of MLC which makes MLCers extremely resentful and gets them running the other way. This is is true unless the spouse sees a glimmer of the normal (ie. non MLC spouse). All spouses mention that their MLCer is a "stranger" often with strange, vacant eyes. On rare occasions, the real person comes out for brief periods, and you can address THIS person about the possibility of MLC (or indeed IMS). But you CANNOT introduce the idea of MLC to someone in the thick of it.

That's not to say the MLCer's spouse shouldn't know absolutely everything there is to know on the subject. He or she should, and in fact, must if they care about their MLCer. Understanding builds a bridge over horrific pain. It is also a foundation for a future relationship no matter WHAT happens to the marriage. And understanding gives proper perspective (ie. it is sobering to finally understand that MLC isn't just a "phase" but the grandaddy of all depressive episodes).

If an MLCer is going to self-destruct, guess what? The spouse can't stop it. You have to just watch the person hurtle headlong towards the highest precipice. And some MLCers MUST self-destruct in order to be able to rebuild. Watching this is THE most painful thing I have ever had to do, but it's all I can do, because I have done everything else in my power and believe me, no matter what happens after this I will be OK because I know I did all I could. No, it's no joke. But after taking the high road through this (and the high road is narrow, and full of rocks, stones, burrs and spikes) I am entitled to express myself in a lighthearted way as I see fit. If you can find anything in my post that says a spouse should not take the MLC itself seriously (and indeed, my FIRST post warned against the "six stages" article oversimplifying MLC), I'll buy you a new car.

IMO, this is IMPORTANT information that Low Orbit is willing to share..into the mind of a male in MLC..THIS IS NOT DENIAL...



He is saying that THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO BECOME DETACHED FROM YOUR H...which is exactly what I did...YUK...I became self-involved..I guess it was my own MLC...

I totally relate to your experience being the spouse of an MLC'er. I used Al-Anon and followed a similar path to detachment (the "with love" part was the challenge!). But, there were times I lectured, pleaded, or adopted a parental or condescending attitude in self-defense. Like you said, his MLC was making me insane.

I think we probably differ in our definition of detachment, Mimi. Detaching through MLC does not involve not caring, in fact quite the opposite. You express love and care, but you MUST remove any emotional vested interest in the MLCer. For example, if you say "I love you", it is as an expression of love, not because you want to hear it back; you must acknowledge that they are on THEIR journey and probably for the first time in your histories together his/her decisions do NOT involve you, so you do NOT take it personally; you remove yourself from the drama and nastiness.

What LowOrbit is describing here is stuff that absolutely ALL the spouses I associate with through 4060 and other sites would do. All HE wanted to do was talk and explore new things with his wife. Well - the huge majority of men in MLC don't. That huge majority SHUTS DOWN and REMOVES THEMSELVES from their spouses. Furthermore, they introduce behavior that has NEVER been a part of the marriage contract, such as enraged, abusive behavior, self-destructive behavior such as alcohol abuse and risk-taking, and very often the ultimate violation of an OW. There is NO WAY you can make it through this if you don't detach. Mimi, you say you became self-involved. Don't "yuck" in hindsight: none of us can ever fully know what would have happened if another choice was taken, but there's a great possibility that that "self involvement" saved your life.

semantics... detachment... self-involvement...

Detachment, as explained by RiverTam, is absolutely necessary to survive behavior that has NEVER been a part of the marriage contract, such as enraged, abusive behavior, self-destructive behavior such as alcohol abuse and risk-taking, and very often the ultimate violation of an OW and it is, ultimately, the ONLY way to stay involved with your MLC/WS and stay sane.

Self-involvement as in healthy selfishness... think of the often used analogy of the flight attendant's instructions to put on your own oxygen mask before attempting to help others. This is another necessary survival/life skill.

When my H was crying out to me as Low describes so well, I turned my back on him and rejected him and MY WONDERFUL SWEET HUSBAND TURNED TO SOMEONE ELSE..

My SELF-INVOLVEMENT DID NOT SAVE MY LIFE..it contributed to the almost ruin of my life.

I don't say this to say that my H's choices were RIGHT. Him having an A was SINFUL AND WRONG and started all of this devastation in our family. But my H did not become abusive and act strange UNTIL HE BEGAN HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH THE OW...

I'm sorry. I recall vividly when he reached out to me as LOW describes and I TURNED MY BACK ON HIM...

Ah - OK, well this is a completely different scenario. My WH has yet to turn to me. (He chose to turn to an OW instead.) But if and when he does, I know what I will do.

I am willing to bet that if you'd known about MLC you would have probably reacted differently. It is an established fact that a great proportion of the marriages who survive MLC do so because the non-MLCer spouse was educated about MLC and so was able to put the episode in context.

Nonetheless, we're back to semantics. Detachment in no shape or form involves turning your back on your MLCer spouse! But even when a spouse coming out of the MLC fog turns to the spouse, that spouse must STILL remain detached. It is a slow, hard slog accompanied by much "cycling", and if you don't have your bearings, you can get caught up in the cycling, which would be totally counter-productive.