I couldn’t grasp this concept easily myself while going through this until we saw a program on Discovery Chanel. The program concerned eye-witnessed traumatic events. They interviewed the eyewitnesses who recounted with clarity the events that occurred and then ran footage of that actual event. The eyewitnesses were wrong in their description of many of the events. Simple things like “I reached for him on my right-hand side” were shown in the footage as the complete opposite.

Contrary to Hollywood; midlife crisis is NOT any fun. He may want you to think he is having fun, enjoying life (for the first time) and getting on well; but this is one of the many lies he will tell in MLC. After all how much fun is irritability, anger, frustration with life, covering up true feelings, living a façade, covering lies, and uncertainty about the future? It is traumatic and becomes even more so once reconciliation begins.

Further to this many MLC’s begin at the early stages of Andropause. Memory loss and loss of mental sharpness occur in the andropause and all men experience a decline in serum testosterone (andropause) sometime between tha ages of 34 thru 64. A self test for andropause can be found here http://www.andropause.ca/en/diagnosis/quiz.asp

When I was cycling through this phase I could not remember my sister-in-law’s name, children’s ages and more. Once at the office I asked where we were in a program I initiated in January. To my dismay it was the January prior and it seemed like two months ago. I began to carry around a note pad to remember things. Yet I personally have phenomenal memory and could recall conversations in detail from 15 years ago. Imagine what my W thought when I told her I didn’t remember things that happened during MLC! I now have around 85% of my memory restored and a whole lot more that I want to forget!

N4060,
Thank you so much for your post.

Some one here had recommended you website before...it is very helpful to peek inside the mind of MLC.

I hope my WH wakes up from his MLC before we get divorced.

Thanks again.
www.fortysixty.org

Again, this could be my ex speaking. He actually said those very same words. He said "I've always put you and DS first, now it's time for me." Boy that stings. We didn't know we were a ball and chain.

Oh yeah! Hands down! Even the French judges will give 'em a nine in this category!

Wow! My ex tells me this all the time - I never stopped loving you. He still tells me he loves me (he made a fly by attempt at returning home in Jan.). He's no longer living with OW but he's still up to his old shennanigans.

Your wife is a very smart lady!

Hmmmph! Imagine that!

Once again, you are toe to toe with my ex.

Newman, I hope you'll stick around. You have enlightened me a great deal. This gives me a little more strength to see this through. Thank you.
S.

Newman,

Awesome posts. (I almost put a smiley face here and realized that it didn't convey what I wanted -- it's not happy to know we've all gone through this)...

You said:
This is EXACTLY how it felt to me, too.

I did the most dum-a$$ things in both emotional states. When I think back... I am amazed *that person* was me.

By way of update, I *did* speak to my ex-H today about what was going on during his 'heart problems'... and how I was NOT there for him in a meaningful way. I apologized, which felt like the right thing to do. He told me he understood... we both did things that led to the state of the marriage at the time, but that yes, he was hurt by my lack of empathy... though he appreciated that I took the 'bull by the horns' to take care of him physically (by driving him to the hospital and "making" the doctors to an EKG and other physical testing, for example).

This thread has been a true GODSEND to me...

My H and I talked about it at length this morning... and especially about something I have realized as a result of my thinking about this thread: I have lived much of my life in denial. I could list several incidents where I physcially "took over" (because I am a care-taker, like I did with my ex-H, as stated above) but did NOT emotionally look at what was going on... this stems back YEARS... long before the MLC. Usually, the situations were surrounding health - or rather - death, or the possibility of it. For example, when my son was born (not breathing) and had to be rushed to NICU... the hospital sent a social worker... who said that I was remarkably calm... and I was... I just never expected my son to die. Period. I didn't even entertain the thought.

There are many more situations that I thought of this morning... over and over again... denying... until things couldn't be denied.. and when that happened... as in the case of my (then)H's medical issues... I crashed. Big time.

Anyway, I know this isn't the direction the thread was headed, but wanted to add some insights I've gained from all that you ALL have written. This is an absolutely life-changing thread for me. Thank you shattered, most of all, for your desire to delve into this difficult and often misunderstood subject.

I second that Newman, you are shedding alot of light on this issue for me too.

Newman, I want to chime in to thank you for your input. It's given me so much insight. I could relate to just about everything you described. I especially appreciate the reminder that WH's process really had/has very little to do with me.

What you said about exposure was very interesting as there's been a lot of debate about it already on this site. I haven't joined in the discussions because my WH's response seemed so different from the expected outcome, but similar to what you describe. He essentially exposed himself to just about everyone, defiantly, as if to say he was living his own life now and there was nothing anyone could say to him about it. Exposure allowed him to stop being secretive but did nothing to stop the A. In fact, it was at that point he really started going downhill fast since he was no longer trying to maintain a false front of responsibility and maturity.

Are there people who enter a MLC and never come out of it?

Shattered and Mimi, Thanks for the hugs! I've been through a lot, as have we all, and the support from this site helps so much. This post is helping me address some "unfinished business" so thanks, Shattered, for starting it.

LetStry, Id like to answer that question for you without trying to "hog the thread" here...

I mentioned a couple of posts back about Daniel Levinson’s Government funded study on adulthood and what I call the Levinson Top Three Tasks for a man in midlife transition. Levinson wrote a book called The Seasons Of A man’s Life in 1978 that flowed out of that study and later became the foundation of a later book by Gail Sheehy called Passages that remaned on the Wall Street Best Sellers List for over a year. Her other even later book was called Understanding Men’s Passages.

Levinson and Sheehy as well as Jim Conway write that MLC is a passage – a temporary phase of some men’s lives. It’s a “passage”.

Our culture is fairly un-accepting of the concept of MLC however such is not the case of other cultures. In the popular book “Men are From Mars: Women are From Venus” the author speaks about our Native American culture and this passage. The natives refered to it as a man ”going into his cave”. Apparently the warrior entering midlife and the onset of sadness that closed his era of youthfulness would enter a cave. Just like us today he didn’t tell his wife – he just went. She would see him enter the cave and knew exactly what to do. She set up camp outside for as many days as it took until her man emerged changed. Then together they walked into his second half of life as he learned to take his place at the fire as an elder of the community.

I suggest that in his cave he settled the Levinson Top Three Tasks of Midlife Transition. The difference between the early American Culture and today is that they were prepared for this rite of passage. They expected it to occur and celebrated its completion. Not so today!

Today this transition comes on us suddenly and unexpected. No one warned us that it would happen (although if they did we likely wouldn’t listen anyway). We no longer celebrate our elders as in other cultures. I often wonder how my (or your husband’s) transition would have been different if a watchful older man would have placed his hand on my shoulder saying “I see what you are starting to go through, it happens to all men, this is what you do…”

Things are changing though as us baby boomers grow older. I tell every man that I work with that I expect only one thing – “when you are through this; reach out to one other man entering midlife”. I’ve never had a man turn me down on this commitment yet.

But to answer your question – Yes, all men get through this and all men that do are forever changed. However, the ones that cease fighting and denial and then address the Levinson Top Three dead-on become better men through their passage. The ones that resist and never address their transition become “grumpy old men” and we all know a few of those! Jethro Tull in their 70’s song – Aqualung, describes this sort in later years to a T.

Newman, please don't feel you are hogging anything. As you can tell from the responses, you have valuable information that the rest of us are seeking. Please keep sharing. Sounds like its time for another trip to Borders. I'm looking forward to venturing out of the infidelity/divorce section!!



I take issue with society's values. It is hard being a woman in this society with so much value placed on looks. I was smart enough not to base my self esteem on looks because I could see into the future and, to quote Graham Nash, see "I built my life on sand and watched it crumble in the dust." I still did suffer self esteem issues, and I'm not a bad looking person. If our society did value the most important things about us, which are all on the inside, a mid life transition would be more of an honor, rather than something shameful.

I know what I'll be listening to on the way to work today!

Thanks again Newman and all the other posters on this thread.
S.

This is something I wanted to mention, too, because Newman's fascinating words are mostly about men, and as a woman who went through MLC, I see a few rather strong similiarities.

While I never relied on my looks either, I definately relied on my sexual prowess (the ability to attract a man). When my first H cheated on me, all that went out the window. I couldn't hold on to him with all the enthusiastic lovin' I had to offer, so what else did I have? What I had, was the ability to mother. So, I mothered my children (to the point of smothering) and began doing the same to my ex. I became the care-taker, which (very soon) became the norm.

Enter burn-out... and the MLC...

Society doesn't do much to prepare women, either. Not to put too fine a point on it (because all people are different and there are many, many differences in women and their choices) but to me... women are seen as either sexual beings or nurturing beings -- and when we head into our 40's, with the empty nest approaching, it *could* be a time to tap into the sexual side again... and in fact, it is an amazing physical time for women... having more time with their partner alone (the children are young adults and don't need the 24/7 care they did before) and their bodies are going into overdrive as the big "M" approaches. This should be a FABULOUS time!

What seems to happen instead is that we are faced with either our partner's MLC's or our own - especially if we are close in age with our partner.

Newman, you mention that all men get through it... get to the other side... and I agree, from all that I've read, seen and experienced. It's that "in-between" time, where decisions are made, that are so frightening. If life-changing decisions are made (as was the case in my own MLC) the life that happens on the other side is very different, and not often in a good way.

If, as in your example, the person (whether male or female) enters the cave (or to use your Men are from Mars analogy) the well (for women)... and the spouse waits outside... there's hope for reconciliation and a new, exciting life on the other side.

If instead the MLC'er opts to skip the cave or well and goes to another land... as I did... the dynamic changes altogether.

I don't know what the answer is (duh, of course)... but I love the ***idea*** of elders and villages and people who have gone before being a guide through this murky time of life. It would be really, really nice if it were set up in advance (somehow)... so the MLC'er, partner and all going through it with him/her weren't surprised by it. For all of our advancement in technology and medicine, I'm just shocked at how little we really understand about these kinds of life changes.

PS: LetsTry ~~ More hugs for you!!! ((((LetsTry))))

Thanks for your response, Newman. Very informative.


That does make sense. Once I got over the initial shock of my husband's behavior...it was pretty easy to see that he was in alot of pain. Not only was he dealing with the MLC and the depression it caused, but he was also dealing with some other health issues. While not life-threatening, these were somewhat debilitating.

Once I had 'joined his team' and we began to prioritize his issues together...he improved rather quickly. He's still not all there yet though, and I'm at a loss. Is there anything else to be done, or do we just wait it out?

I'm convinced that there are physiological issues still at work. He responded very well to a low dosage of ADs, but he only stayed on them for a few months. Personally, I think he might have weaned off prematurely, but he was terribly uncomfortable with medication. And since he still seems to be maintaining himself pretty well, I'm inclined to not push him about it.

There is really precious little that a spouse can do for a man in MLC but you do want to do something lest you do nothing and succeed; right?

One note about the AD’s and midlife crisis is that depression (when it becomes overt) seems to rise to the forefront of male midlife issues and yes, it can be treated once it becomes seen. Many men in midlife will have a struggle maintaining an antidepressant programme and not for the reasons one might think. The Website www.midlife-passages.com reports that :
Unfortunately Zoloft or other like AD’s are most commonly prescribed. Mind you, I know of some men that actually count on this side effect to keep them away from their often rejection at the bedside. However, if a man is obsessing about his decreased libido or failures to perform (common at midlife) the AD might just make matters worse. I suggest to some men that they introduce these meds as a short term measure to get them through the major hurdles and then begin a different self-help programme.

It is important to realize than men can be helped through a variety of approaches including :
• Exercise (going for a daily 20 minute walk)
• Diet – high in zinc
• Getting reacquainted with their spirituality (most men do in midlife transition)
• Counselling or coaching
• Start a supplement regime
o 50 mg zinc / day
o 400IU of Vitamin E
o 1000mg of Vitamin C
o Vitamin B compound
o Ginkgo Biloba
o 500mg Ginseng
o 1000mg of Flax or 500mg Soy Isoflavone.
Most midlife issues are hormonal in the background and the standard American diet works against balanced hormones in men. Endocrinologist, Dr Larrian Gillespie has studied this topic for over 25 years and has developed a diet program for men in midlife. The website for this is found here: http://www.gladiatordiet.com/ The American diet is unfortunately very low in zinc found in broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, and large leafy vegetables (you know how we American males like eating our vegetables!) Yet zinc is primary for a midlife man’s well-being. You may not be able to get him to take his vitamins but he does like to eat. Just be sure he eats the right things. A Mediterranean or Asian diet should be your primary food source to get him through. With the above supplement regime you will both notice a difference in him in three weeks providing he drops the beers and adds two glasses of Red Wine instead.

Newman,

I have been reading yout posts on this subject and as I am reading it , I see my WH is fitting your description of a MLC'ER.

It is all so eerie to see, its like you have been following him around and posting about his life. It fits him to a tee. At least now I know i am not crazy and its real.

I just hope he comes out of it one day. I may be divorced by then who knows, his choice not mine. I would love to see the man I knew come back to himself.

Thanks for expalining it, it has made things easier for me to understand, like a lightbulb moment.


Hurting

Hurting,
Thank you for your response. Yes it really is incredible that so much of the MLC reads like a script. We even tend to use the same phrases in a lot of this – it does seem eerie.

What seems to define a man in MLC that has included an affair from a Player is that he is a faithful man gone astray. He is out of character. He tells you that he has been unhappy for XX number of years (typically he says two) but this is news to you. Quite often MLC hits just after you have either renovated or built your home – right on the verge of “freedom” to enjoy life and each other – suddenly – whamo! MLC hits big time.

Not all men in MLC include an affair partner in the mix. On our site only around 5% of the men that regularly read include an affair but exhibit all of the signs of MLC. We have created an exhaustive self test for men to screen themselves for MLC. You may wish to use this tool yourself from what you know of him. The Test is found here - http://www.fortysixty.org/7.html

Newman,

I, too, have been reading your posts, with interest, and my STBXH also exhibits all the signs of a man in MLC.

He was a faithful and honest man who has become a lying cheat with very few morals- far and away from the man I was in love with.

I am in plan B but have been wondering if this is the right thing for a man in MLC. Should I be offering support or a shoulder to cry on or try to be his friend or should he just be left to do it on his own. There are times when I feel quite sorry for him.

I wonder if he will ever realise what he has lost or what he has done and if he does how long might it take. I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

Thanks
Miffy1

Miffy:

I don't know your story but the offering of support, etc. should have been done during PLAN A. Do you think you did an effective PLAN A?

Hi, Mimi

To be honest my plan A was very poor- WH left on D-day and initially the only contact we had was him telephoning me to tell me how bad things were for him and disrespecting me thats why I went to plan B, to protect my love for him.

Truth is my WH had a heart attack only 3 months before his affair started and my kids and I had given as much input and support as we possibly could- really we could do no more.

He genuinely knew the family loved, cared for and treasured him, we were happier and closer than we had ever been before- I cannot rationalise why he chose this time to have an affair.

Miffy1

Newman said:
My FIL apparently went through a similar MLC. He left home, moved into an apartment and began partying, even with my WH, who was then in college. I don't know if there was an A or any infidelity. He became one of those "grumpy old men" and my WH's worst fear was to become like him. Sadly, he's following in his footsteps, if not worse. He also feared I was like his mother who he blamed for emasculating his dad.

BTW, I read Passages years ago, but it's interesting to hear your 1st hand accounts of yourself and those men you've worked with. Love Jethro Tull!

Thanks NBII! I remember reading Doris Lessing (can't think of the book title, but I read just about everything she wrote back in the 70's) describing the transition you're describing for women. She talked about becoming "invisible".

Newman also said:

Once again, you've hit the nail on the head! My WH told me he'd wanted to leave 2 years before he did, but I got diagnosed with breast cancer and he said he stayed to see me through the treatment. Funny thing, during that time we also built our "dream home", which was really stressful for him because I wasn't able to be as involved as I would've because I was going through surgeries, chemo, and radiation. He also completely ended our sexual relationship after my mastectomy, blaming it on impotence caused by a prostate infection for which he'd never take the prescribed antibiotics. I was feeling too yucky to push it much.

Then, two years after my diagnosis and a year after my reconstructive surgery, I felt ready to rejoin the living. I was really feeling great and seduced H in the hot tub. I thought everything was now perfect in my life. The very next day, WH went stark raving crazy, screaming at me, dumping what he said was years of pent-up anger on me. He continued like this for 4 months - we tried counselling, but he said the counselor was on my side and got furious when I expressed my concern to the counselor about H's suicide threats. At the end of 4 months, he suddenly left and turned up living in a motel room with the MOW, who he said he was "helping" through some difficulties with her H. The rest, as they say, is history.

Certainly- if your plan B detaches you from his situation.


Most MLC men in full blown midlife crisis do not want your support or even your shoulder. If he is involved outside of your marriage the OW has already provided that for both his real woes and his unreal ones. If he is a MLC husband that is in isolation then this is the best place for him to be providing he is actually working things through rather than watching TV or other entertainment. There is a safety net in your plan B for you - stick it out girl; you will do fine. I'm glad you are in a place where other wives can support you through this.


Yes he will eventually realise what he has lost and left behind. It will be happening on occasion right now in quiet moments. A well seasoned MLC man knows what to do with those thoughts though - add more self-medication.

On the inside a MLC can last as little as two weeks; on the outside it could be a decade. The average according to Jim Conway, Author of Men in Midlife Crisis is 4.5 years. My own was 4.5 years with the Full-Blown phase lasting a year and a half.

I still have periods that have scared the life out of me when I have thought "My gawd; its back!" A wise counsellor though said "It is not unusual that one might feel 'midlifey' throughout midlife". These periods now just serve as a reminder of how simple it is for men to fall off the edge when standing near the abyss. It keeps me alert and compassionate for the men still in there.

Thanks again for the info, Newman. It is much appreciated. My husband is fairly health-conscious, but I think there's definately room for improvement in regards to his diet.

I didn't realize that we could take such a targeted approach.

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