I think my problems are pretty common, and that they can be rectified, but I feel the need to lay them out and get as much advice as I can. This is my first post, but I've been reading the main site and the forums now for the last week. So here we go:

I just don’t know what to do. Is it an affair?

But first a little bit about us. We have been together for over 7 years, and married for 6 and a half. We have a five year old daughter. We’ve not had a strong marriage for a while now, and have had no emotional or physical connection for the last three months, and last week she told me that it’s time for our marriage to be over and we should have a separation. She can’t rule out the possibility of reconciliation, but she doesn’t want to give me false hope.

Now onto the details:

My W went on a vacation to visit a friend a few months ago. She met her friend’s old BF and became good friends with him. Their friendship has grown at an amazing rate and now they literally spend hours talking to each other on the phone every single day, for the last two and a half months. Also, my W has gone to visit him at least once every month. (We are on the west coast; he is on the east coast)

Initially I did not have a problem with them being friends, and I told her that. But given the huge amount of time that they spend together, and her frequent flights across the country to visit him, I feel it has moved beyond friendship and into something more, like a dependency (addiction).

Last night I told her that I feel her relationship has become inappropriate. I don’t think that it is healthy for a married woman to spend that much time with a single man. I made it clear that it is not the fact that she has a “guy” friend, but that it is the exorbitant amount of time that she spends with said “guy” friend. I also think it is very inappropriate for her to go to Las Vegas on a vacation with him (much less plan on staying in the same hotel room). They are going next weekend.

Of course she swears that they are only very good friends and that she has done absolutely nothing wrong. She spends so much time with him because he understands her and they just click. She doesn’t feel like he is judging her and he is an all around great person.

The funny thing is that she says the same thing about me…I’m a great father and a good person…just not for her.

She informed me that she had spoken to a lawyer yesterday regarding separating from me. I asked her if she had talked to him about custody, and she said she did. She wouldn’t tell me though what was said because she doesn’t trust me. I told her that I can’t accept that answer, because I have never done anything to betray her trust. I have always been completely honest and faithful. Her answer is that she can’t trust me because I don’t trust her. I said that I never said that I don’t trust her; I just don’t think that her relationship with the OM is appropriate. She inferred that I felt that she can’t be trusted because she has allowed herself to be in an inappropriate relationship. She also said that she had wanted our breakup to be amiable, but my comment about her “inappropriate relationship” has shown her that it’s going to have to be dirty and mean.

The custody question is very important to me because my daughter and I are very attached to each other. I have been doing all of the parent things for months now; getting her ready for school, getting her ready for bed, taking her to doctor appointments, taking her to her sporting events, making breakfast/lunch/dinner. My W has become absent from our home. But I can’t say that she is a bad mother, and there are some very painful and unfair truths right now. First, the custody system leans heavily towards the mother’s side. Secondly, my W makes nearly 50% more money than I do (though I do make above the state median income). And lastly, I can’t say that she is a bad or unfit parent, just that she’s been absent.

Last night my W said that she was absent initially because she wanted me and our daughter to build a stronger relationship because during my time on active duty, I had to be gone a lot. Then her motivation for being distant changed from wanting our daughter and I to have a stronger relationship, to just not wanting to be around me (me and our daughter are always together now). But now she wants to be able to spend more time with our daughter, and wants to work out a schedule for us to alternate taking her to school, etc. But frankly, that means that I have to give up time with my daughter so my W can have more. Also, I have the suspicion that it’s not so much her wanting to spend time with our daughter, but her not wanting me to have any ammunition if/when the question of custody comes up.

How did the “inappropriate relationship” comment come up? She has been asking me how I feel about her taking our daughter out to Washington DC to visit with the OM and tour the sites. She brings it up every day, even though I asked her not to. I told her that I want to say it’s ok just to make her happy, but in all honesty I don’t want her to take our daughter out there because I don’t want her exposed to the inappropriate relationship. This caused her to become very angry and defensive of herself, the OM, and their relationship. It also caused her to say that the possibility of reconciliation is completely gone.

So now the OM is going to be coming out here so I can meet him and find out just how wonderful and nice and trustworthy he is. Obviously I am not thrilled about this proposal. He very well might be the kindest most caring person in the world, but he is an active contributor to the breakup of a marriage, and that is unacceptable in my eyes. My W’s stance is that he is not an active contributor because the marriage is already over and I can’t blame the OM for our issues.

She says that she cares about me and that she loves me “I just am not IN love with you”. She wants to be able to not be married, but live in the same house and continue to be good parents for our daughter. But she also says that I am delusional because I think that her relationship with the OM is a problem, and also because I think that our marriage can be saved.

I’ve working so hard to stop the annoying habits that are contributing to her disdain for me. I listened to everything she said, and even when she was pushing every button I have, I kept from becoming angry or condescending and judgmental. But she says it’s too little too late. I’ve started sending her little notes letting her know that I hope she has a good day and that I love her. Her response is “you need to stop with the I love you’s”.

Is it an EA? Am I delusional? Do I stop telling her how I feel? Do I let my W take our daughter of a vacation to visit the OM? If her wishes come true, and our marriage completely breaks up; can I win custody of my child, and if so, how? Should I just fight for shared custody, or go for full custody?

Lastly, and most importantly how do I save my marriage?!?

Edited to follow advice and seek Mortarman's help.

If you've been reading the home page articles for a while now, you know the answers 2 your difficult 2uestions already.

This is an affair. Probably a PA, but certainly an EA.

Seriously consider calling one of the Harley's for coaching immediately if not sooner.

Also, since you have a small child, you should consider talking 2 a lawyer as well. Protect your family!

-ol' 2long

bookmark this thread

I think it may come in handy soon

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=

You need to quietly snoop and carefully document ~everymove~

keep accurate records of her time ... her car milage

EVERYTHING

and keep all of it in a safety deposit box or somewhere out of your home ... like at your brother's house ...

In the meanwhile

READ everything on this site

ESPECIALLY about love-busters and emotional needs , etc

don't just read the affair info

read all of it

then ask questions

and if it's at all possible

CALL the Harley's ... like ol'2Long suggested!

GF,
Welcolm to MB. It has been said about this place that it's the one club no one wants to belong to.
Stick around and the real pros will show up soon to help you out.
You ask;
Well, from what you've written here, IMHO, yes it certainly is, and probably well beyond just EA, but also a full blown PA as well. You got the I love you but am not in love with you speech which is straight out of the WS handbook.
Trips back and forth from coast to coast to be with OM, daily phone calls for hours at a time, vacationing in LV with him(in the same hotel room <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />) and on and on.
I hate to be the one to hit you with the wake up call, but, the evidence is undenialble. She will try however, to convince you this is not true, in order to get you to back off and leave her free to persue her A.
You need to go back to the main page and read everything about Plan A and Plan B so that you can develope a strategy to bust up this A. One of the best weapons in your arsenal is to expose the A and bring the light of day on it. A partners only survive in darkness and shadows. they ko not want their family or friends to know what they are doing.
What do you know about OM?
I'll hold off and let the vets explain things a little better but you must have a plan to save your M if that is what you truly want to do.
And do not let her take your child to see OM. Never expose your C to the evilness of an A.
Best Wishes and Blessings,
Jerry

GF,

I am sorry you are going through this and let me welcome you to MB.

Before I jump on your thread I need to know two things from you.

1. Are you ready to hear the honest truth about your situation, or would you prefer to stay in the state of denial? I say “stay” because you are denying the reality of what the data is clearly telling you. I am on your side. I just want to know where you are at.

2. Are you willing to do what it takes to try to save your M, protect your DAUGHTER and yourself? This will require some guts and a Pair. You are in war and this business is not for the faint hearted.

I ask these questions because of some recent concerns about appeasement and being politically correct on this site. Although I try not to offend, I am not one for APPEASEMENT. Your answers to these questions will tell me how—if at all—I should proceed on your thread.

In any event others will chime in here soon, and regardless of what I do, they will help you out. My heart goes out to you. I am very saddened and pissed by what I read of your situation.

Lastly, do not agree to anything your WW suggests right now. (And yes, she is a WW. You just don’t want to accept it yet.)

That is all for now. I will keep you in my prayers.

I was directed to this site by someone who has also been sharing a great deal of advice.

1. Yes I am ready to hear the truth. I don't want to be in the dark and confused anymore.

2. I'm scared big time of doing what it takes; but really what are my choices? Stand by and let my marriage and family fall apart? I don't think so! Though I've seen posts about snooping, and I just don't know if I'll be able to do that. I am a very honest person, almost to a fault.

My W did threaten me last night..."If you say 'inappropriate relationship' to anyone else I will not stand for it! If you say that to a lawyer or a judge, that instanly makes me the bad person! I will not stand for it!"

Do you think that her reaction shows that she is starting to realize that it is inappropriate, or is she just really mad?

GAWD ... sometimes I am ashamed to be a woman .... that was UGLY what your wife said to you. I apologize on the behalf of my gender ....

putting that issue aside...

Her reaction shows she has something REALLY BIG to hide ... and she will use intimidation to keep you under control whilst she slowly slides your family right out from under you.

YOU best get over your reluctance to snoop ... otherwise, you are a sitting duck!

GF,
This is waaaaaaay more than inappropriate, this is by every definition, an A.
You do understand that don't you GF?
Of course she's mad, she doesn't want you exposing the A of others because you'll ruin it for her, understand? Since she has found a way to justify her actions, she can't possibly blame herself, which leaves, of course, only you to blame and be angry with. YOU'RE TRYING TO RUIN HER A.
Sorry if I am being blunt, but you need to stare down the truth and confront it. Start reading about snooping and get the hard evidence you need to expose her. The daily phone calls should probably be enough, but, if you must, get more info.
blessing,
Jerry

GF,

I will address your sitch more later. But for now, here are some concerns I have.


You are going to have to decide whether you are willing to do what it takes to give your M a chance and protect yourself and your daughter, or whether you will let fear and/or some other excuse (e.g., being honest to a fault) paralyze you from taking any action.


Don’t worry what your WW threatens you with right now. You have more power than you think you do, you just have to use it. If you are willing we’ll help you with a plan. I will make some suggestions tonight if you are willing to MAN UP.

Your WW should not dictate what goes on. She does not know what she is doing and has no solid plan. You on the other hand will have one. So for now, take what she says with a grain of salt. Again, YOU HAVE MORE POWER THAN YOU THINK YOU DO!!!


She is just trying to manipulate you, to keep you in line while she proceeds to destroy your M, wrecking your DD and your life in the process. I hate to say it to you, but right now your WW does not give a damn about you. Right now, she is just fantasizing about and planning to be with OM. It will be your job to bring some reality to this fantasy. We will work on that too.

I know it’s hard, but it is in moments like these, although no one asks for it, that our best can come out. If you follow the principles of this site, regardless of the final fate of your M, in the end, you will turn out ok. Pray to God and get ready to do what you will need to do.

I will say more tonight.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

yup!

Buddy, you you really want to save this marriage and protect your family, get rid of the "I'm an honest man, so I cant do that" feelings. If you stick to that approach, you will lose your wife and she'll walk all over you. Been there and seen it before.

Your wife is in an affair. Definately an emotional affair, and my opinion is that it's also physical. She isn't flying across the country to have coffee with him.

As long as she is in the affair, she is not the woman you once knew. She will be evil and manipulative, and she will lie to you about many things. She'll say he's just a friend, that you are paranoid and controlling. She'll say she needs space from you because you are out of control. So get ready for all of this.

Are you ready for the most painful and emotionally draining episode of you life? That's a serious question, because this is going to be tough on you. The good news is you can do this, and we will help you along the way.

This is good. This shows just how freaked out she is about people finding out she's really in an affair.

You need to start gathing evidence to prove that they are in an affair. Are they talking on your home phone when you are not around? This might be the easiest way to get proof.

Go to a local Radio Shack and get:
1. Voice activated recorder (about $30)
2. An plug in power source for the recorder. You need this cuz the batteries die out quick on those things. (about $10)
3. Cassettes for the recorder.

Hook that up to any phone outlet in your house where she wont find it and it will record any incoming/outgoing phone call made from your house.

In the mean time, stick to plan A.

Also, I know how painful it is to hear she may want to leave you and how she doesn't love you anymore. Ignore that stuff, she is in a fog right now. If you manage to get her out of the affair, all those feelings come back. I know personally because my wife was the same way.

Good Luck, give us an update.

******I also think it is very inappropriate for her to go to Las Vegas on a vacation with him (much less plan on staying in the same hotel room). They are going next weekend.***

Well, "inappropriate" is hardly the word I'd use, but okay. Your WW is having a full-blown affair right under your nose and she is using your trust and love for her to get away with it.

***My W did threaten me last night..."If you say 'inappropriate relationship' to anyone else I will not stand for it! If you say that to a lawyer or a judge, that instanly makes me the bad person! I will not stand for it!"***

Translation: "I am really, really enjoying having both a husband to support me *and* a boyfriend to date and have sex with, and if you interfere with this arrangment I will bully and threaten you until you shut up and get off my back."

***MAN UP***

Absolutely. I have told several BH (betrayed husbands) here that women do not love men they don't respect, and they don't respect men they can walk over.

If you want your marriage, you will have to find the strength to fight for it. You can start with Plan A but it nearly always takes Plan B to get through to a confirmed fencesitter and cake-eater like your WW. You must be prepared for this.

The first stage, though, is to open your eyes and face what has happened here. I fully understand staying in denial -- h*ll, I was the Queen of Denial for a number of *years.* But you can't save your marriage until you are ready and willing to face the dragon.

Rule #1: Stop letting your WW scare you. She and her boyfriend are counting on it.
Mulan

This bears repeating:

"The Difference Between Secret And Private

Private matters are those traits, truths, beliefs, and ideas about ourselves that we keep to ourselves. They might include our fantasies and daydreams, feelings about the way the world works, and spiritual beliefs. Private matters, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, give another person some insight into the revealer.

Secrets, on the other hand, consist of information that has potentially negative impact on someone else-emotionally, physically, or financially. Secrets, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, cause great chaos or harm to the secret-keeper and those around him or her.

Private: I believe in reincarnation.

Secret: I have a wife and a mistress and neither knows about the other.

Private: I got terrible grades in high school.

Secret: I forged my medical degree.

The Difference Between Truth and Honesty

Truth is empirical, demonstrable fact. Your bank balance, today’s date, whether or not you’re married.

Honesty is about feelings. If you’re honest, you are open and clear about how you feel. You can be truthful without being honest and you can be honest without being truthful (the latter a little more difficult). The best relationships, stating the painfully obvious, are both truthful and honest. Trust is built on both truth and honesty, tempered by the proof of predictability and reliability."

-ol' 2long

> I am a very honest person, almost to a fault.

Yeah. Me too. Know what it got me? Know what NOT snooping got me? Not 1 OC, but 2.

Your wife is manipulating you with her "NOT GOING TO STAND IT"! If she really wasn't doing anything wrong, do you think she'd be bothered by you saying anything???? NO!

------------
Go to a local Radio Shack and get:
1. Voice activated recorder (about $30)
2. An plug in power source for the recorder. You need this cuz the batteries die out quick on those things. (about $10)
3. Cassettes for the recorder.
-----------

Have to add to get the power plug thingy - the batteries wear out after about an hour and a half. We use it to tape OW outbursts so we can prove her unstable in court (we are battling for custody of the children). The thing itself is WONDERFUL!

If you want to save your marriage, buck up. You will have to do snooping...BUT! If she were trustworthy, you'd have never had to do this....this is a reaction to HER actions...this is not a reflection on you, but on HER. Keep that foremost in your mind. You are doing NOTHING wrong.

- Kimmy

Copied without permission from Star*fish. You should read this a few times.

That fear word is an understatement! I would more likely say shear terror.

I feel that I have progressed a lot in this last week. And I know I'm starting to get to the point where I can take a calm and objective view to my W's attacks and threats.

Don't get me wrong, I still want to curl up in a corner and die, it hurts so bad. But now I am finding the ability to show her that I can be a strong person and not the weak emotional person that I've been in the past.

So I get over my aversion to snooping...what happens if she finds the voice recorder? What happens if she catches me in the act of spying on her? Or what happens when I do have hard evidence in hand that she is having an A? What do I do then? Confront her, or go straight to exposure? Should I start exposing now with the actions that she's taken already...phone calls, trips to visit, planned vacations?

One thing to remember is that she is a very strong willed person, the type to fight to the death rather than admit an error.

BobPure's wife all over again.... I'll post a link to his story in a minute.

I bumped it to the top

be sure to read all his links

real eye opening

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=

GF:

My W is strong-willed 2.

Your certainly can do what you want regarding snooping/exposure/confrontation. A lot of what happens, regarding recovery, and how fast it happens depends on the actions you take NOW.

Your W's A is pretty typical, and should be handled with tried and true MB methodology. You will incur more venom early on by snooping and gathering intelligence, and by exposing the A 2 family, coworkers, and close friends. But you will also increase your chances of saving your M.

I think it's imperative that you seek professional help at the same time you're doing your research - which is why I think you should call one of the Harleys right away.

You can't keep your W from going 2 Vegas if she's determined 2 go, but you can certainly make it known 2 her that you're not supportive of that choice.

And you can certainly insist that your D never be exposed 2 the OM.

-ol' 2long

Dont get caught snooping. If you do, justify as best you can that you are trying to protect your family, etc.

Once you have the hard proof, I'd not tell her, but instead go straight to exposure. Believe me, if you tell you have proof and you don't expose, she'll just hide her affair from you in a new way. She has no intereste in stopping her affair, so telling her you know will just annoy her at this point.

[b\Very important: Do not threaten exposure.[/b] Alot of BS's try to threaten to expose, because they want to end their spouses affair without everyone else knowing. This never works. You wife will feel even more threatened and blackmailed. Just expose without warning her.

After you expose she'll turn into a demon from the underworld capable of spitting fire and burning down buildings with her eyes. You'll think, 'oh no, I made a mistake doing this!', but this is normal. It's what happens when the WS's fantasy affair begins to crumble.

Anyway, that's a bit off in the distance. We need proof first. Get to work on that.

Going through the bob stuff now...there is just so much to read!

First night in a week that we've not fought...phew! I feel so drained from the pain and stress. I just don't know if I could hold up to another battery of anger and frustration thrown my way tonight.

She had a nasty head-ache, so I got to take care of her. I don't feel like a door-mat, it just makes me feel good when I can help her. I'm happy that she accepted my help too instead of pushing me away.

On second thought though; maybe this feeling of hope is pre-mature.

I just don't know. All I do know is that I want it all to be over, so I can use the things I've learned on MB towards building a strong, lasting M. Rather than struggling to save it.

Well now I'm rambling. Thanks everyone, and any advice/comments are welcome.