So I take it that agreeing to meet the OM would indeed be "approving" the affair? Do I have that right?

Yes, she wants me to meet him becuase I told her that I don't want my D going out to visit him. I said I don't know him and I don't trust him. The only exposure I have to him is the fact that you spend so much time with him, and not us(us is me and our D).

She feels that once I meet him, I will see that he is a great guy and that I can trust my D to be around him. So her current plan is for him to come out during the weekend of the local fair in April and that way the three of them (him, W, and D) can go to the fair, and then the next day me and D can go. And at night we can all sit down and get to know each other.

The more I think about it the more sick to my stomach I get.

Your wife strikes me as extrememly confident.

That she can and is entitled to this entirely inappropriate relationship. That she can pretty much do whatever she chooses with no consequences. And that she has superior ability to manipulate these events.

Why don't you insist on going to Vegas with her?

I seriously still think you need to very very quickly gather irrefutable evidence of her affair. Voice recordings or e-mail logs before you present this to her family.

She is the type of WS that will react very strongly to loss of control of the situation. I'd gather all dirt and keep journals about her absence as a parent. Wouldn't she be in for a shock if she lost custody because of her blatent behavior?

Time for you to ACT. Get a plan and take action. Don't let her anger manipulate you.

I strongly suggest -- gather evidence this weekend. Phone bills, trip receipts -- PHONE RECORDER, spyware on computer.

Absolutely do not support her trip to Vegas -- vehemently oppose it.

Make your list and early next week -- expose. After you have a phone recording or copies of e-mail to support your assertion. Do not reveal your sources -- simply state that you have proof.

If she still has the guts to take that trip next weekend, you'll have to decide what your boundry is. You can either get into Plan A and start showing her that you can meet all of her needs and OM has no place doing that.

Or, you would be totally justified in having her locked out, stuff packed, and a temporary full custody hearing for daughter on Monday because of abandonment.
(I'm a tough one...but thats what I would do.)

And by saying that -- I in no way think your marriage is over. I just know what it takes to snap a WW out of an affair. These are simply actions to take to break up her affair. It doesn't mean its over (even though your wife will say this -- over and over again!) Tune that out!

GF~
That is just what I thought... The plan of everyone living happily ever after, the end... PUKE...
The fog is very thick in this one!

Okay, don't panic....
I had to tell my wife many many times that i am not going to just hand my wife, the mother of our child and woman that I love over to any man. period.

Yes, she is asking for your permission and acceptance of this affair and OM....

Lexxxy~
Do you think he has enough to go to his MIL with right now? I do...
I would bet that your WW will have plans to introduce him to the entire family and all her friends. You need to expose ASAP... You need to blow this fogged out dream of hers clear out of the water.
It is not acceptable for her to introducing a strange man into your childs life. You can and should put a stop to this.
My wife did the same thing. She took my daughter on a dinner date with her OM. She also had the fantasy that she could just replace me with OM. He also helped her believe that was possible. Exposure blows that up... big time...

If she had been sneaky about the phone calls...Or lied about the trips to visit him...And then GF found out all of this later...Then yeah, she got busted.

BUT she has very strategically been "open" enough about this friendship that GF is going to come out looking crazy if he doesn't have something really really solid that proves this is no ordinary "friendship." He's just a friend


What a manipulator!! Wow, back off of the affair talk buddy, or you're gonna get a nasty divorce. (can you say "struck a nerve"?)

She's a sneaky one....

Some interesting thoughts here. Lexxy, once GF gets the "irrefutable" evdidence he needs to expose to the family.....do you think that will change the circumstances here? I happen to agree that further evidence is good, but probably not for the reason you do. I think any sane, rational person could figure out how extremely innapropiate this relationship is jst based on the FACTS so far....I think the family probably KNOWS the "deal"....they have to, ot they are just as in denial as everyone else. Dunno.

The Goodfather (pun intended) has been letting this intolerable stuff go on for a long time now. He has been (IS) in to personal levels of denial and enabling that are very very serious to one's real time mental well being. He has now essentially sanctioned this affair, let his ww pass this off as a friendship, let his WW hamstring him financially, and now in some inconceivable horror show is actually listening to and rationalizing thoughts about meeting the OM.

Now, I don't know what to say to this and it not come out and probably sting you, so I'll pass here and let dazed, etc.. give you what you need. I think while the idea of further evidence is good, I think getting your butt to a qualified therapist who can help you understand just how it is that you Let this happen to your life is of utmost importance. PLan A, Plab B, exposure...it is all good....BUT, right now, IF WERE YOU...I would be getting into see someone who could help me understand how it is that I could deny this reality and let myself love myself so little that I could let this happen. The WW here was not even deceitful...she robbed the bank in the light of day...

I am really sorry for this. I don't have much else to add abotu this. I'll let the experts weigh in on strategies to help you break up this affair.

LM

I think she's been driving you towards this for months.

And that's why I advocate swift action next week if she truly gets on that plane to Vegas.

Total loss of control of the situation she's been carefully orchestrating for months. No longer able to coax GF towards the "amiable" divorce. Everyone knowing about her seedy affair. Loss of custody of daughter. Labeled as a bad mom, bad wife.

Its gonna take cajones....

GF~
LM makes a good point. Until now know one has asked how are you doing with this.
What is your energy level right now? Can you safely continue.
I agree with LM. You can't loose track of yourself. Take care of yourself. Do you have insurance that can help with a counselor? An IC for you is something that can help you keep your sanity. Which you are the only sane one in your marriage by the way.

I will tell you right now that if you have $185 that you can spend, call Steve Harley or Jennifer Chalmers. They will help you create a plan of action for the marriage.
First take care of yourself. It sounds like you have tremendous patients and the resolve to do a plan A if you have the strength.
You must have love in your love bank to be able to save the marriage.

***So her current plan is for him to come out during the weekend of the local fair in April and that way the three of them (him, W, and D) can go to the fair, and then the next day me and D can go. And at night we can all sit down and get to know each other.***

Boy, having two husbands really is nice for your wife, isn't it? And you are being so very mature and civilized in going along with her wishes.

Surely you know this is insanity. But what I have said is true -- your wife is setting herself up to have nothing less than two husbands. She is testing you right now to see how far you're willing to go with this, and as long as you say nothing and even agree to go along with it she will push it just as far as she can.

What's next?

Your daughter starts calling the OM "Daddy #2"?

WW wants you move out so OM can move in?

Or she wants the guest room set up for him? Or for you?

You all take a house by the sea together?

Good lord, man -- your house and your marriage are being violated right in front of your face. *I* am outraged and ready to go lay the beatdown on OM myself, but why aren't you???
Mulan

Do you really think that she would lose custody of our child based on what I've said so far?

I'd like to think so, but my gut says otherwise.

As far as meeting the OM...I never really "agreed" to it, but I didn't put my foot down and say "He** no!" either; even though that is how I felt, and obviously how you all feel too. Do I just switch directions and say no, I don't want to meet him? Will I look like I'm flip flopping and weak?

Yes, I let myself get into this situation. I've allowed it to happen right in front of me, and in that aspect I was delusional (but not for the reasons she says). I will be talking to the Harley's as soon as I can afford it. (Geez how did I let myself get into this situation where I can't even spend $200 of my own hard earned money!?!)

Yes she is a manipulator, and she is much better at this type of thing than I am (manipulating and lying). I have come to terms with this, and that is why I am asking for your help, because I know I can't break up her affair, win her back, and have us earn each other's trust back, without it.

I love my wife dearly, I always have. Even when she hurts me like this. I can do a plan A, and have already started it. As far as I can tell right now there are still enough love units to keep me going and it won't end until her legal separation goes into effect.

The guest room? I'm already in it...one week and counting.

Laying the beat down on the OM? I'd love to, but that would not solve anything. The point is to show that I can meet her ENs, not to let my emotions destroy that chance (I'm certain that she would defend him and say that I was a maniac beating a poor innocent man)...besides I've never been a violent person.

Let me get this straight -- you think if you refuse to meet the man destroying your family you will look flip-flopping and weak???? What do you think you look like NOW?

Go and read DAZED's post -- or Mortarman's. You must be the strength and sanity for your family right now.

I'm glad you plan on talking to the Harley's...good decision. I sure hope you're coming up with more of a plan than that. You need something more immediate than "when I can afford it."

Its time for action NOW. Like right NOW go buy a voice activated digital recorder that you can hide where she takes his calls. NOW.

***Do I just switch directions and say no, I don't want to meet him? Will I look like I'm flip flopping and weak?***

GF - I am just going to give it to you straight. On what planet is a man "weak" for saying "H*LL NO, WIFE, I DO NOT WANT TO MEET YOUR BOYFRIEND AND I DO NOT WANT OUR DAUGHTER WITHIN 10,000 MILES OF HIM!!!"

Okay, you can be a little more MB and proper. But -- as I have said to many male posters here - women do not love men they do not respect, and they do not respect men they can walk over.

Your wife has zero respect for you right now or she would not be doing the things she is doing. She's got this total fantasy of how she thinks life can be (I can have two husbands, and we'll all adjust perfectly fine!!!).

You have got to bust up this fantasy big-time -- unless of course you don't mind sharing your wife and your daughter with another man, because that is already happening.
Mulan

Hi GF,

I just wanted to make sure you know that although some of the posts may seem brutal, we are really on YOUR side. We want what you want, the affair to end and you and your wife to build a new marriage.

Since I am the one who pointed you here, I feel a level of responsibility that you get the best advice MB has to offer. Please hang in there regardless if some of the responses may feel harsh.

These folks are trying to give you a kick in the butt to jump start a change in your behavior towards the affair and your "wife's actions" -- which are completely unacceptable.

Please hang in there and keep posting and seriously consider the advice.

Jo

GF~
You sound like you have strength. That is great. Now let's get to work.
1) Let's make a short term plan that we can tie into a long term plan later.

A) You move back into the bed room tonight. In house seperation leads towards divorce my friend. Don't feel so stupid. I moved into the basement before I pulled my head out. That one jesture was all my wife needed to go ahead with her affair. She started sleeping with her cell phone when I left the room. What do think she did when I was sleeping in the basement? She talked to him all night long. I allowed the affair to grow by my own ignorance. I was so stupid I thought she would chase me and invite me back into the bedroom. Let's put this way... I have not had any SF with my wife since the week I moved out of the bed room. That was a year ago.
Get you @ss back into your bed tonight.

I would just act like nothing bad has ever happened and prepare for bed like any other NORMAL night and see what happens.
My bet is she will freak. So what... Let her... What ever she says and no matter how mean and ugly she becomes, you don't fight back. Do not argue or be drawn into a fight. She will push your buttons. You will learn fog babble later. For now just take back the bed room. Let her go sleep on the couch or in a chair and complain about it for a week. Make it her choice to leave. Not yours... Be the man.

I am sure your feeling a little beat up right now. Your WW has had you under the fog as well. It is painful when you realize you have helped her leave you. I know the feeling. It does hurt, but you have to take action now. You have to complete the information gathering and get to exposing.

Try to spy on her this week big time. She will be planning the week end with OM and until now you have been okay with things so she will probably continue to be right out in the open with it.

I want to add that Lexxxy and the others on here no there stuff..... Listen and take what they say as gold.

At this point I thik you can through posistive joint agreement out the window. Take you credit card and spend the 185 dollars tomorrow with the Harleys. They will help you complete your plan that you so badly need to get into action.

Now that's what I'm talking about! Thank you so much dazed!

I never thought of something so simple as to move back into my bed as a way to put the onus back on her. I don't want to say it's manipulative, but it kinda feels that way. Please don't be offended I'm not saying that you are manipulative.

One question though. What do I say when she asks me what I'm doing? Do I just ignore her? Do I say something like "I'm sleeping in here now. Our marriage isn't over yet, and I'm not giving up."?

As far as using the credit card, I was thinking the same thing...she's been free to rack up a massive amount of credit card debt...why can't I take $185 and do something good for me with it?

GF,

I did not forget about you. In fact I will be saying a lot shortly. I am on page 3 of what I want to say, so I my comments to you will be very long. In any event, you are getting great advice from the others.

God bless

Looking forward to it!

***These folks are trying to give you a kick in the butt to jump start a change in your behavior towards the affair and your "wife's actions" -- which are completely unacceptable***

Exactly. Frankly, I am just shocked and outraged *for* you, and I've been posting here for a very long time and seen some pretty outrageous stuff. Hang in there and please keep reading and posting.
Mulan

Ok, now I'm on the rollercoaster again.

She's told me that he is very loanly and depressed (he's in his late 30s and has never had a family). I guess guys have a bioligical clock too?

Anyway, knowing that, I've heard little bits and pieces of her conversations with the OM before. And I've heard her suggest places he could/should go to meet women.

It's little thoughts like this that fill me with doubt about exposure, it makes me think "What if I'm wrong?" I still feel that her relationship is inappropriate, spending this much time talking to him and taking vacations to/with him. But what if they really are just really good friends, and they are couseling each other with their problems?