What would you do if you were not afraid ?

I'd be honest about how I feel, and do what is necessary to save my marriage.

And if my M can't be saved, then I would do what is necessary to make sure my daughter has her father in her life.

The problem with being honest is that at this point all I want to do is point out what she is doing that is wrong. I know that doing that will just be one huge love buster after another and only accomplish making things worse rather than better.

If I understand the point of exposure, it's to allow her to see what she is doing through other people's eyes, not just hers/his/mine. But honestly, I am terrified of it!

She is going to visit her mother this weekend. I think that I'm going to inform her mother of her actions. Her mom loves me and knows that I am a good father and husband. My mother-in-law is also an intelligent person and doesn't really like to put up with BS and won't candy-coat how she feels.

The problem is that her mom lives in Canada, so my main terror is that when I expose her actions to her mom, she'll decide to stay in Canada with my daughter.

GF

Listen to me : You have already lost your W. She has taken back her heart from you, wrapped it in deliberate insanity and is constructing a fantasy with this OM to thrust it into.

She WILL regret these actions more than anything in her life one day. She is not currently capable of thinking straight. Its known as "fog" or alien abduction on these boards.

YOU are the one spouse capable of taking right action, and protecting your marriage.

It is NOT a lovebuster to say " I think what you are doing is wrong, and your anger in defending your behaviour supports my assertion."

Just don't shout, and use *I* statements not *YOU* statements where possible. " I feel.."

Affairs are fantasies and most do not survive exposure to the scrutiny of light and truth.

I was TERRIFIED to expose - and after I called OMs GF, I vomited into bushes on the supermarket car park that I called from !

And the whirlwind of spite fom my dear Squid was an awesome sight to behold for WEEKS afterwards....but there was a faint itch in my right palm that day. It was the sensation of the whip hand in this mess passing to ME from THEM.

Where OM is single, It can be more difficult to find someone in OMs life to apply negative pressure on the affair, but not impossible.

Also know that Squids giflfriends were USELSS when I exposed to them. Full of "follow your heart" cosmo bullsh1t.

But GF, expose heartfelt and articulately to your MIL, and any siblings your WW might have.

"I love WW, and want to love her for life, please taken every opportunity to tell WW that, as she is not listening to me right now. I want our kids to have a happy mom and dad, but I we can only achieve that working together without affair spsrtners, or "close male friend" or whatever she has told you he is in the way".

She will absolutely hate you for it, for a while, like Squid did me. But now she loves me VERY MUCH once more. Make sure your language in exposing is reasonable, heartfelt and non judgmental.

Your WW will discredit you shamelessly - he is a bad father, you don't see the half of what I have to live with, I am just friends with this man, GF is jealous etc etc.

You must stay FROSTY and choose you words carefully.

When she rants at you and says ( as all exposed WS do) "That's it ! You have just ended our marriage !!!"

Say " I will do what I think is right for our marriage. If you think your behaviour is right, why are you so angry at being exposed ? I live you, and if you do not want to stay married to me I will not chain you to me. Just know that my love an dpatience will not last forever."

And now a non-M thing that worked for me too.

I found out details of OM and threatened him very credibly. With disgrace, revelation of some illegal activity he was involved in and also physically. It helped him reconsider just how important his 'love' for my wife was compared with the potential damage.

Use a PI if necessary.

GF you have a he11 of a ride ahead of you. Be a man, teh brave thing is ALWASY the right thing in fighting infidelity.

My own Squid was the most pigheaded, enttitled and spiteful WS on God's green earth, yet she has been with me, loving me again now for 20 months since exposure. Recovery is hard, but you only get a chance of that if you do the brave thing now.

Without exposing and MB I would now be divorced. No doubt.

You didnt win your baby back when you met her by being a doormat, and you won't do that again now.

Your WS and daugter staying in Canada with a smart disapporving MIL should not be your worst terror. Your DD calling OM "dad" should be your worst terror ! Think on that. Still think being a doormat is valid action ?

All blessings GF. Praying for you.

Hi GF,

Doesn't the fact your wife is planning a week-end with OM in Las Vegas qualify as an exposure tool if told to your MIL?

Jo

She is setting all of this up as a "friendship"....thats why you must have EVIDENCE before you expose.

GET EVIDENCE.

Put a recorder in her car...put a key logger on your computer if she uses it to communicate with him.

Think of yourself as a military man -- gather your intellegence before you start your battle plan.

I am a military man! Active duty for 8 years, reserves for 1 so far.

So is the phone records and the vacations not enough evidence?

I'm thinking about the phone line recorder, and am going to read what I can for other snooping methods.

>So is the phone records and the vacations not enough evidence?


It'd be enuf for me.

That phone line recorder can be hidden in your bedroom (ours is out on a nightstand, but it could easily be hidden behind the bed). It doesn't matter WHICH phone is used, as long as there's activity on the line itself.

--------
The problem with being honest is that at this point all I want to do is point out what she is doing that is wrong. I know that doing that will just be one huge love buster after another and only accomplish making things worse rather than better.
--------

It will get worse before it gets better. Resign yourself to that fact and you will not be surprised by anything she says or does.

GF...

You are getting absolute dead on great advice here...Some of MB's finest are advising you...PLEASE LISTEN...

GF, a couple of questions...

1. Can you afford to hire a PI for the Vegas trip?

2. Can you and will you call the Harleys for coaching? If so, when?


Ah, military, honest, possible father/child custody issues...This is a job for Mortarman!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Seriously, GF, Mortarman would be an excellent addition to all of the other wonderful posters that you have here...His guidance is incredible...I believe it to be divinely inspired...I hope that he looks in here...In fact, add his name to the title of your first post...give him a shout out, you know, in addition to the current title, add a "MORTARMAN HELP!"...he would be good here, very, very good...

In fact, below is an old post of his from another thread that you may need at some point...I've copied it without his permission...I hope that he won't mind...I'm pretty certain that he won't <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />...


Mrs. Wondering


Edited to Add: Even though he was forced by his wife's A to need and use the ebook referenced below, Mortarman recovered his marriage...just thought you should know that...There is much hope...follow the advice here, really, it works...I'm saying prayers for your family...


From Mortarman:

Well...I think personally the need for more "evidence" here is very puzzling to me. What more evidence does someone need? The guy's wife has been visiting another man across the country...she has a trip planned for Las Vegas soon.....? Am I reading that correctly? We have all of this, and there is still a queston of needing more evidence.

With all due respect to people here, this is absolutely bizarre. The time for exposing this affair is...was yesterday.

I am gonna tell you something you probably need to hear. Women do NOT respect men whom they can walk all over. They absolutely do not. I understand your world is crashing and you are an emotional mess....but that's no excuse for letting this affair go on one more day without doing everything in your power to expose this. I think your actually doing better than most, as many men would have thrown their wife out the door by now....so you have patience and some calm rationality about you...but at some point, that is going to work against you...sadly, I think it already has.

Yeah, your wife is gonna threaten divorce....they all do, and you are scared to death she will leave you right? Well....that has alrady happen my friend. Your fearing WHAT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. I understand the thoughts that "evidence" is needed as in voice recorder...but in reality, the criteria for an affair has long been met. You can sit tight and try and get more "evidence" that the earth is round, but meanwhile, you should consider this akin to you watching your house burn down and NOT calling the Fire Department.

Just my thoughts...take em or leave em <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

GF,

Call your MIL TODAY...no, make that RIGHT NOW. Your MIL sounds exactly like my Mom (who I just put on a plane home). If you tell her your WW is going to LV and going to stay in the same hotel room as your WW, holy ****** will break loose for your WW. You won't need to worry about WW staying in Canada because she won't be welcome there by MIL. You also need to get MIL's radar going so she can see for herself.

I agree with Mrs. Wondering. If you can afford a PI, hire one to follow her to LV and get pics - they are undeniable and would go far in exposureland. Also, if your WW and OM have any computer contact, buy a keylogger to track their messages - they are dynamite for exposure.

Regards,

BB

True, but among other reasons its also to deflate the whole fantasy allure of the affair. The secretiveness the two (WS & Op) share is part of their bond. Its also a fog they live in that blocks out reality.

Once family, friends and the like know about what they're doing, reality sets in.

It won't be pretty when you expose, GF. She'll be VERY angry and try to discredit/threaten/hurt/blame/deflect everything negative upon you. That will be her initial reaction. So brace yourself and get strong for your daughter.

Jo

So what are your thoughts regarding the OM coming to your state to meet you? Are you receptive to this meeting? and if so, what are your conversation plans?

Jo

***So now the OM is going to be coming out here so I can meet him and find out just how wonderful and nice and trustworthy he is.***

. . . jaw drops . . .

LEMON --
She has been conducting this affair in the open, with the implied consent from GF that their "friendship" is OK. He's never gone further than calling it an "inappropriate friendship". GF knows they talk for hours everyday -- she's not hiding it. Thats what makes it different.

She's hiding the content of their conversations, and its certainly not appropriate for a married woman to be visiting or vacationing with another man -- HOWEVER, he hasn't done anything about it until now.

He does not - in my opinion - have enough evidence to begin calling it an affair especially in exposure to her family members. I think he needs further proof of the extent of their relationship, otherwise he's going to get portrayed as a jealous nutjob.

She will use the defense that he's making it all up, that they're just great friends, that GF is just now freaking out because she told him she wants a divorce.

I don't think GF needs any more evidence to convince HIMSELF that its an affair -- I think he's going to need something more concrete to present to OTHERS as part of EXPOSURE.
Otherwise what exactly is he exposing? That they talk and visit? Big deal -- everyone knows that already. And he's been OK with it up until now.

gf,
The good people on this site have been trying fitfully to open your eyes to what is happening. How long do you want wear the blindfold you've placed over your eyes?
Your W is in a full blown passionate Affair with another man. I spelled it out rather than using acronyms so that ther could be absolutely no misunderstanding on your part.
The bottom line is, do you want to save your your M or just move on. You're waffaling position leaves everyone here in serious doubt.
What is you're final answer? Save the M or just chuck it?
Most of us don't have time to waste, but if you choose to save you're M, you could not have come to a better place to do so.
CHOOSE GF, otherwise, we don't know how to respond to you!
Blessings,
Jerry

GF~
Lexxxy is right on! Exposure is so very important towards saving your marriage. It must be thought out and done perfectly.
Think of is as dropping a bomb on your WW's fantasy island. The key is having accurate information and do not give out to much where it is not needed.
There are key places to expose. You must know for sure what is going on. You need to gather information and be patient while doing so.
If you blow up and go nuts on her and run off shouting to everyone things that are not true, your exposure will damage your efforts to save the marriage.

Tell the most damaging information where it does the most good for you. OM's family, wife, girl friend. Give them the most concrete details about the affair. Your family and wifes family you must expose to but be careful. Do not recruit them to join forces with you. Keep in mind you will need there support once your wife ends the affair. Over exposure to them can hurt that support group your wife will need so much.
I know this from experience. When I exposed I went to far. I over exposed. I was hurt so much and angry that I gave out way to much information at first.
It completely severed my wife from people that could have helped her. It isolated her and drove her right into the arms of OM.
You see exposure done right can end the affair if your lucky. Even if you over expose like I did, it will still work in your favor. It just adds a little time to the affair clock in my opinion.
Depending on the depths of your wifes addiction will determine how affective exposure will be in the short term. Long term it will put huge amounts of pressure on the affair which is what you must do to save your wife.

Think of it as sinking fantasy island. Exposure is the first attack that sets the stage for the rest of the war.
If you want your wife back, it must be done.

Be strong and study the MB books and articles. PLAN A, PLAN A, PLAN A, PLAN A. Learn it and live by it. The great thing of plan A is it teaches you how to become a better person while pressuring the affair in an indirect way. It is not a tool to manipulate. Never use any of the MB tools that way. The tools are for you and using them correctly attracts your wife back to you. Not by pushing but like a vaccum pulling.
Plan A done correctly will cause OM to loose his mind and blow himself up. Plan A takes courage and strength. Many others have changed THEMSELVES through plan A and it gave them a real chance to save there wife and marriage.

There are many really great people on here. I can't give enough props out to them. They have given me a great chance to save my marriage. If I can do it, you can do it. The MB tools work. It's your choice...

No I'm not happy about it. I'd much rather he just disappear forever. I do feel that it is a better idea than my W and D vacationing to see him.

Also, a trip to DC to see the sights is something that we have planned to do as a family for the last year. And I've told her that I'm not happy about being left behind and unwelcome to come.

My W says that I'm just going to have to get used to the idea of her and our D doing things together that don't include me. But then she goes on to say that we can do the DC trip sometime together...as friends.

As far as conversation goes, of course I really want to confront him, but I don't know if that would be the right approach. What can you guys suggest based on past experiences?

Lexxy:

Your comments are my worst fear of exposure. I know that my wife has been manipulating me into this position, until I'm so far in that I very well may just look like a jelous zealot when I expose them.

No I can not hire a PI; over the last 7 years that we have been together my wife has grown to control all of our finances. I have opened my own checking account since things have gotten really bad, but I just don't have any money in it yet.

Speaking of finances, my W has managed to rack up some very impressive credit card debt in both of our names. We are now looking into getting a 2nd mortgage to consolidate the debt. Is this a good idea, or am I just facilitating the potential separation by making the finances more easily handled?

Also, after talking to my dad, he strongly suggests that I "lawyer up" and make sure I can defend myself if/when we go to court. My W told me that she has already spoken to one; is my father right and it would be prudent for me to do the same?

As a lawyer, I wholeheartedly support your Dad's advice to you. You need to protect yourself. The first step in doing so is to get information - as much information as possible - from a lawyer licensed to practice in our state. Look for one that is a bulldog and who specializes in family law.

Regards,

BB

Thank you Dazed.

Shinethroughs post was making me feel very down on myself. I appreciate the candor, and I'm sure those things needed to be said, but I don't think that it was very constructive.

Shinethrough, I am open to advice and criticism. Please continue to help as much as you can. I just am really confused, hurt, and scared right now (like everyone here has been at one point in time), and would prefer constructive criticism <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Your post Dazed really helped lift my spirits, and thank you.

One question I have regarding exposure. Do I tell the MIL what I know now and continue to snoop and pile on any more evidence that I find? Or do I wait until I have all kinds of dirt?

The reason I ask is because I don't know how much more evidence I'm going to get in the next week before my W goes to Vegas; so I'm tempted to expose now with the conversations and vacations, and add evidence later as I find it. Is this course of action adviseable?

GF~
I am new to your thread so I may be a bit off base.
Did I read this correctly. Your WW is having the OM over and you can meet him?
This sounds insane but is part of her fogged out plan to get you to accept him and get your approval of him.
This is key... Never give her approval to continue the affair...
You "lawyering up" needs to be completely secret right now. It's good to know where you stand and start saving money for the retainer. It will cost you 500 to 3000 dollars for the retainer.
I did the same thing. I found a lawyer because I was scared of what to do about custody of my daughter. My wife found out about it because my lawyer sent me a bill in the mail. She blew up on me. In her fog she took this as I was giving up on the marriage. OM also helped her believe that too. Don't do anything to make her think her affair is okay with you and don't let her think you are giving up.

If she obtains approval from you she feels good about it and thinks she is doing the right thing. You want to blow up fantasy island. Constant pressure.

I personally would not agree to any financial changes until your WW ends the affair.

Do not confront this guy unless to protect your family or yourself. I did this... I love busted big time... Again forcing the wife to defend OM and she ran right to his defense.
There is little chance of anything good coming from a meeting with him.