Good idea Mrs. W! Not only will it piss off my WW. But it will help take the excitement out of the possibility of meeting the OM.

And yes you are correct it is Libby Lu...I couldn't remember the name earlier <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

That really is a stroke of genious by Ms. Wondering. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

When I was a little girl, it was my father who always took me to ballet. We'd stop and get an ice cream or something afterward, and it was the BEST thing....just having my Daddy all to myself without my sibs.

It's been probably 35 years since those days, but the memory is still special.

GF...you've got mail... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ladyjane...thank you for the very sweet compliment... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. Wondering

GF...

Remember, Plan A is about attracting Mrs. GF back to the marriage...Plan A is not meant to "piss" her off...let's realign, ok?

A better strategy would be to say that you are going to take your daughter out-don't say where-but ask her if she wants to go-I feel pretty sure with the way things are going now she will say no-then go to Club Libby Lu...when she gets mad, you can say, "Well, honey, I did invite you go". Play innocent...you just thought of the idea while you were out...you were in the area...whatever...

You want her to see you and your DD as a happy family that she wants to be a part of...don't give her more reasons to justify her behavior...See how that works?


Mrs. Wondering

Thanks everyone. I wish I could take credit for what I wrote, but it was mostly a culmination of what I learned here on MB.

GF,

I see that you are growing and that you are slowly doing what you need to do for your M, your DD and yourself. I applaud you in this. But I also see that you are skirting one of the most powerful weapons at your disposal: EXPOSURE. Although you need to keep snooping for your potential court case and other exposure targets, you have enough information to expose to your family and your MIL. If you tell MIL that WW has traveled cross country to see OM, plans to see him in Vegas and stay in the same room with him, talks to OM for hours on a daily basis, plans to take DD with her to D.C. to see OM, has seen a lawyer and plans on divorcing you, and intends on kicking you out of your house, I believe MIL is not gullible enough to understand that her daughter is in a full blown affair. Thus, you do not need any more proof to expose to MIL. You have more than enough.

Exposing to MIL will put a big cramp in your WW’s fantasy. Stop making excuses for exposing to her. Do it TODAY! Another reason you need to that will be explain shortly below.

I think you need to call your lawyer tonight and put her on notice that you will go see her tomorrow, on Monday, so she can prepare herself to file for you tomorrow. Since your WW plans to file, most likely, next week, you need to beat her to the punch. Time is of the essence in your sitch, since your WW is a very fast mover. As your lawyer clearly delineated to you, he who files first calls the shots (for the most part) in court.

If you don’t file first, your WW will most likely concocts some story and have you kick out of your house, and thereby making it possible for OM to come and screw your WW in your own house and in your own bed. Your WW clearly told you that she plans on having you kick out of the house and keeping custody of DD; she even told OM that she will see her lawyer next week and that “game is on”. Well you have your cue from her and you do not have the time to waste on this, so you need to get on this ASAP, like tomorrow at the latest.

As to your concern that filing first may alienate your WW, I would not worry too much about that. First, your WW plans on screwing you up with the divorce and custody of DD. You need to protect yourself and DD first. Second, if your M is not saved, it will not be because of your filing. That is a red herring that your WW and others may use to blame you. But it is nonsense. All your WW has to do is to recommit to you three being a family again. Many couples get back together even after divorce. If your M is not saved, it is because of WW’s affair with OM and her CHOICE to be with OM rather than holding up to the marriage vows that she made to God, you, and men.

This brings me to the second reason why you need to expose to MIL TODAY. Since you will file tomorrow (hopefully), you don’t want the first sign that MIL gets that your M is in trouble is that you file for D and custody of your DD. You want MIL on your side. If you file without exposing to her, WW will tell MIL you are the bad guy and claim you are the one who is really trying to destroy the M. Of course, she will not mention OM and the shenanigans she has been up. MIL, not having any other information to go by, will justifiably blame you for this. If on the other hand, MIL knows about OM and your WW’s A, she will somewhat see where you are coming from. You MIL will get a fuller picture of the whole truth after you explain to her that your WW has already seen a lawyer, plans to file next week, and intends to kick you out of your house in the near future. You need to let MIL know NOW that all is not well in your house.

When you expose to MIL TODAY, do not tell her that you plan to file tomorrow (hopefully), lest she informs WW and WW beats you to the punch. MIL may be very strong morally, but WW is still her daughter. I am not sure how MIL will take it, but no one likes to see their offspring getting screwed. So in the off chance MIL perceives your actions in this light, you don’t want to undermine your strategic advantage in this. However, the minute after your WW has been served, you need to call MIL and tell her that you filed. (I hope you notice that I did not say the minute after you have filed.) You need to call MIL then and explain your actions to her. Again, you want her to be on your side, at least to some extent, and you don’t want her to fill in the blanks for your actions.

Now, one worry you may have about exposing right away is that you don’t want give up your ability to acquire evidence of the A between WW and OM. You most likely won’t. Your WW will not move out, and as long she stays in the house, you will be able to gather evidence of her sleazy A. The real question is will you be in the house to be able to gather this said evidence. If you don’t file first, there is a high probably that WW will get you kick out of your home (by lying about you to the court), and thereby destroying your best avenue to snoop on her. Thus, it is important to file ASAP and not worry too much about losing your ability snoop.

For the sake of argument, let’s assume that your WW leaves the house after you expose. I assure you she will be back. Since she is already seeing lawyer, I am sure her lawyer will tell her to return at home once her lawyer finds out about her action. WW’s lawyer will not want her to lose her potential (strong?) legal positions in these proceedings WW’s lawyer will not want her to be susceptible to the charge of ABANDONMENT in court. Hence, even if WW leaves at first, after counsel from her lawyer, I am sure she will return home shortly. Thus, I would not worry too much about WW leaving the house.


So yes, you can prevent WW from taking DD out of your state to see OM by having her served. Even though you can’t prevent everything, prevent what you can. Your job, among other things, is to make it h*ll for WW and OM to legitimize their A.

I have a few more comments. First, do not discuss divorce with WW. Like I told you earlier, tell her that you do M and your lawyer does divorce. It is a waste of time and emotionally draining to do otherwise. Furthermore, you risk unwittingly giving her clues about your plans and strategies on this. The less she knows of your plans, the better. In addition, you don’t want WW to get moving on this faster than you are. By telling WW you are going to do this or that, she feels motivated to beat you to the punch. Again, the less said on this, the better.

Second, be sure to keep copies of every e-mail to and fro between WW and OM. You never know when you will no longer have access to those sources.

You have not said much about Plan A as it relates to being the best you you can be. What did you learn from this? What do you think are your shortcomings in the different facets of your life? How do you think you can improve on them? When do you intend to start improving on them?

Normally, a BS has a lot more time to start working on Plan A, but I see that your case is a little different, since your WW is trying to move fast on the destruction of your M. But when you have the time, it may be good to reflect on Plan A as regards to how you can be the best husband you can be and the best father you can be.

That’s all for now.

God bless.

GF allowing your DD to be polluted by this affair is not going to win your WW back either.

Squid wanted to take my kids to a 'fun day' in OMs home town.

I told her that s co parent of the kids I had not only a right but a responsibility to do what I considered best for my kids and that I felt strongly enough about them not meeting OM to do all in my power to prevent that happening.

I then called OM and told him if he ever spoke to my kids under any circumstances until we were divorced I would kill him. he laughed. For a while. Then he stopeed. And was quiet.

You have NOTHING to lose but our daughters innocence and your dignity by letting this mad woman try to legitimate her sick fantasy by introducing OM to your DD. Why don't you at least demand that you go and offer your side of the story ?

" Darling, this is the man who wants to take mommy away from us. "

That is not manipulation, that is FACT.

Take time off work, whatever but DO NOT let this happen GF. Hear me ?

Be HARD , its time to sand up. be a knight. I fyou can;t get your baby back at least stand before GOD proud that you did the RIGHTEOUS THING. and guess what? the righteous thing usually works for good.

Tell your WW firmly but calmly "We can discuss our marrige, but I am father to DD an dwill not permit her to meet anyone who I see as a threat to her safety or happiness. Do not fight me on this".

Threaten OM. Burn his freakin' house down, whatever.

Get ANGRY and RIGHTEOUS ! You WW will most likely get over her craziness - most do - but your DD maybe scarred for life by meeting OM without you there.

I am praying for you GF.

Woops, you're right. My apologies GF.
See, a perfect example of why you listen to the vets here.
You're getting great advise on how to proceed and this knowledge will put you in a position of stregth instead of defensive posture you've taken up till now.
Best of luck, GF, praying for you.

blessings,
Jerry

GF, that is just the thing, you don't NEED grounds. You are her father and have every right to prevent her from being introduced to the OM. The only thing your W can do to stop you is to take you to court and file a court order. FORCE HER to go before a judge and explain that she wants to inroduce her DD to her affair partner. FORCE YOUR WIFE TO GO TO GREAT LENGTHS TO CORRUPT YOUR DAUGHTER AND MAKE HER DO ALL THE WORK.

You don't need a court order to protect your DD from harm, but she needs a court order to harm her. Place all the onus on HER.

Secondly, I would set your DD down TONIGHT and explain to her what is happening here. Tell her that this is an affair and that affairs are IMMORAL. Tell her that as her father you will be protecting her frm this harmful influence. Explain to her that the OM is a BAD MAN who wants to break up her family.

She needs your moral guidance more than ever right now so that she is not so morally confused that she grows up to live like a who*e herself. That is your DUTY as her father.

Here is an excellent article about the devastating message an affair sends to a kid, if not corrected:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_lesson.html

In short, GF, DO NOT ALLOW your insane W to corrupt your DD. It is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY as her father to protect her. SHE HAS NO ONE ELSE.

Mrs. W,

Ohh I agree, and I do want to win her back. I was just hinting that I might feel a little pleasure from frustrating her after all the pain she has been causing me.

I'm aligned don't worry!

She does see how happy our D and I am together, and I really hope that she recognizes that how much we love each other. Though I don't think she really does, and if she does see it, I doubt she cares right now.

Well I exposed to the MIL. She said she knew and could read between the lines of what she had already seen, though she didn't really know many details.

She just pushed that I get passed "the black and white of right and wrong"...that my or anyone else telling her that an affair is wrong isn't going to change anything and that it happens all the time, and that I should just get over it.

Instead of focusing on saving my marriage, I should focus on what is best for our D. I told her that the best thing for our D is to save our M...but like my WW, my MIL is convinced that our M is over.

Though she did say that she would call my WW and talk to her about figuring out what the best thing is for our D.

She thinks that I can get my WW into counciling if I take the approach of us getting counciling as figuring out how we can both be the best parents we can be.

I told her that it is not my current goal to get my WW into counciling, just to give up her A.

I'm really disappointed that my MIL doesn't think that an affair is wrong. Actually not disappointed...down right devestated. She was the one person I thought would have the greatest impact, and she doesn't see anything wrong.

I'm at a loss...

GF...

I know, it's only human to have those feelings...quite normal...just making sure that we were on the same page...

You are correct, that right now she won't see it, but you continue anyway...she won't be able to see most things anywhere near correctly until this affair is over...and the first step towards accomplishing that goal is exposure...How are you doing in that department?

1. Your MIL? Please tell me you are doing that tonight...UVA is very right about that situation...don't wait on that GF...same goes for the attorney...

2. What about the friend/landlord of the OM? You mentioned earlier that you were going to do that, did you? What happened?

3. Your daughter...Ok, I know this is a tough one, she is, after all, only 5 years old...your natural instinct as a parent, will be to protect her...You MUST understand that your telling her IS protecting her, though I know that is very difficult for you to see...All the reasons that Melody gave you are correct, and in your situation, particularly, it is especially essential for two reasons that are pretty clear...

(a) your WW has already told your DD that the two of you aren't going to be living together any longer-your DD has to be told why GF...she needs the truth...she deserves the truth about why her life is being turned upside down...children are resilient and can handle the truth...it is being lied to and told that everything is ok, when clearly it isn't, that is very damaging to them...more than you may realize right now...

(b) your WW is blatantly telling you that she IS going to introduce OM into your DD's life...your daughter must understand fully that OM is NOT her friend...that rather he is an ENEMY(BAD MAN) to your DD and your family. GF, doing the right thing isn't always the easiest thing, but telling your daughter is the only right thing here...it really is...

I know this is all so much to handle, but you can do this GF...be strong, know that you are doing the right thing and we are all here for you...Please remember to take care of yourself...eat, sleep and pray...

Blessings,

Mrs. Wondering

GF...

Okay...I see that we were cross posting...So, the MIL exposure wasn't what you expected...I am sorry, you never know, she may get in your corner eventually. I would bet that your WW has been feeding her quite a few lies...she has been jockeying to get OM in to position for a while now, which is another reason that you have to file first...

Counseling is a waste time and money where your WW is concerned right now...don't bother with that...

Don't let this get you down, we move forward from here...

Praying for you,

Mrs. Wondering

Part of this war is discovering who your allies are ... your MIL is weak.

Weak people fold and surrender when there is a difficult ethical dilemma. Be polite to MIL, but recognize she is morally weak. Do not reveal ~any~ of your war plans to MIL.

File first. Tomorrow. Borrow $$$ from your parents. Go for full custody. Don't delay. Get yourself in the "lead dog" position here.

Your WW has been planning this for a long time.

Hire a PI to see what you can learn about OM.

Take your princess daughter to her make over date with with her Daddy ... not with the man who is screwing a married woman !

I don't think you need to tip-toe around trying not to upset your wife right now ... she will be upset if you do ~anything~ that spoils her plans to have YOU welcome a NEW man into your life who wants to take over your wife and child replacing you ... and if you say you don't like that ... she's going to be mad. Sooooooo ... what the hale .... might as well do things the way you want ...

Your WW may have been hiding $$$ from you for quite some time... see if your attorney can come up with something ....

sorry

this stinks ... but you have to use every advantage you can ... don't allow your fear to immobolize you ...

this is WAR

Tell your attorney that you fear she may be plotting to remove your daughter from the state and absconding with her across the country if you don't file immediately. Otherwise, he/she may just feel as though you can put this off a few days. Attorney's are always looking to downplay urgency.

Say nothing to WW to give any indication you are seeing or hiring an attorney. In fact, if possible appear naive and under control. Don't tip your hand. Poker face. Waywards are crazy and usually make tons of legal mistakes...count on it.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

Thanks for the tip Mr. W.
Mrs. W. I don't think that my WW has been feeding my MIL a lot of lies, I think that I just misread her.

I know that my MIL has a very convoluted history, but I thought that her moral and ethical beliefs had grown and solidified now that she is older.

Don't get me wrong, she does seem genuinly concerned for me and our D. She just doesn't see an A as "wrong", and she also thinks that the idea of exposing the A to the light of day will not do any good for my WW, due to her being so severly strong-willed, and ready to move on.

I told my dad what happened with the MIL. He strongly disagreed with my decision to expose to her. He feels that it was a bad idea and now it will get back to my WW, and further alienate her, he also said that I should refrain from talking to anyone else in her family at all(which isn't a concern because my WW's mom is the only family that has any form of regular contact with her...I met her brothers once, but they are both in jail now)My dads statement really got me down, but I remember that I don't really have anywhere else to go but up as far as my M goes. I still think it was worth a shot, even though I did not get the enthusiastic agreement that I was looking for from the MIL.

I know time will tell, and until then keep working on myself...but we all know how hard that can be!

Ohh, I almost forgot; I got the voice recorder set up, so we'll see if she uses the home phone tonight. I found it this morning under her pillow, and I also found that bottle of personal lubricant next to the air mattress too...guess she went tanning again. HHMMPPHH

Hopefully I'll feel better in the morning.

Having your MIL take sides against her own DD is probably too much to expect. Just as you love your child, so does she love hers. Walk a mile in MIL's shoes, what would you do? It's a tough position to be in.

But just because she isn't willing to openly 'take your side' doesn't necessarily mean that she's not going to have a few choice words for her daughter behind the scenes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

What's more important though is now that you have let your MIL know that you're aware of what's going on, she'll be forced to measure any future actions she takes in full knowledge of the fact that she can no longer claim ignorance. In example, if she allows OM to visit her home....she can never say that she thought it was a "just friends" scenario.

Exposure to family members doesn't mean that you're going to share your strategy anyway, so go ahead and be pleasant with MIL whenever you have contact with her, but keep your counsel to yourself. The longer you keep MIL from coming right out and actively choosing sides, the better off you are.

Don't forget to make some notes in your journal while the conversation is fresh in your mind. You never know what you might need later, so you ought to be keeping a journal of EVERYTHING, dated and written in ink as recommended to you earlier in the thread.


Dude, you wife is planning on divorcing you. There's no point right now in worrying about "alienating" her. You can't lose what's already gone. And in her mind....she's already gone. Any overtures that she makes toward peace, at least until after this affair is over, are designed to keep you calm while she dumps you.

There's no reasoning with a WS. Logic is lost on them because they make up their own rules and rewrite their own history. You're just spitting in the wind when you try.

Go about your business. Be pleasant when you can, and at least 'emotionally in control' when you can't. Do what you need to do legally to protect your family. And when she wants to engage you in nonsensical discussion....use Reverse Babble to turn it back around on her. (There's a link at the bottom of Orchid's post that will tell you more about that.)

Here's another possibility

MIL may have already met OM !!!

AND

I wonder if your daughter has spoken to OM over the phone!
Ask her something like this:

"When you talked on the phone to Mommie's friend (name) did he say if he likes ice cream?"

When your wife leaves, you need to "de-glove" the house. Turn it upside-down looking ... also .... go through your wife's car, the trunk too.

Get her cell phone records... you can do that online.

Pep

I got the cell phone records. In February she averaged almost exactly 1.5 hours every day on the phone with him. That was just from cell to cell. Who knows about calls made to/from work.

They didn't talk on the house phone last night when she got home...bummer would have really liked to hear what they had to say.

I gave her a kiss on the forhead when I thought she was asleep this morning, but she woke up and told me not to do that because it pisses her off.

This morning when I woke up I was ready to do whatever and I was tired of fighting for our M. Then I looked in on her sleeping and realized that I still have strong feelings for her and deffinately do still want our M to work.

Right now I'm thinking that plan B has got to be easier than plan A. The constant uncertainty and dashed hope is just killing me!

GF~
I'm very impressed with you!
Ok~Let's stop for a moment and reflect on what all has happened and what you have learned in a week.

You have found that you DO have strength and YOU CAN do this, haven't you!
I know you love your wife so very much. It is apparent to all of us. It is ok to feel a little blinded by what she has done to your family. I to was blind for a long time to just how far lost my wife was.
It is not too late for to regain control of you and your family. You must do it... For your daughter, for you and ultimately for your wife.

Your WW will fight you like crazy to get you to give in and give up. Keep in mind the love your wife has for you is buried deep inside of your WW. Your WW is fogged over and lost. It is you the lighthouse to protect the family and show your WW there is a path home.

Protecting the family and saving your wife is like walking a tight rope. This is why you need a plan. Mortarman said to me this is like running threw a mine feild. I totally agree with that statement.

I have to admit there has been a huge amount of activity taking place around you and your daughter. Please comfort her and reassure her that you are not going anywhere.
Your WW has scared the poor girl and she needs you her GOOD FATHER, to be her rock and support right now.

When is your appointment with STEVE HARLEY???????
He is the best at helping you with a plan for defending your family... He will help you with exposure, your Plan A with your wife, being a GOOD FATHER, and legal position as well.
Let's us know when the appointment is so we can help you with your plan!

I have to say that your DAD may mean well but he is way off base here... That's normal though.. He like so many others does not understand the proven MB process...
This is why YOU must learn and Steve will help you pull together all of what everyone has been trying to help you with and you will know how to take action.

Also, never discuss divorce and custody with you WW! You must have a consistant statement.
I would say something like... I do not believe divorce is in the best interest of our family and I will not discuss it. As the father or our daughter and your husband, I will do only what is best for our family.
I believe we can have a great marriage. Once you end this affair, I will gladly talk about how we can have a great marriage where you and I both will be happy together.

There is also nothing wrong with reminding her that this affair is destroying your family. She will get mad as ****** because she is hiding from the truth.

Think about your plan before you act.... THINK...
Since coming to MB you have came a very long way in a short time... You are doing great and are ahead to the curve right now. Stay on the path and complete your mission... Call Steve and get your plan updated ASAP!

Before you both run to see who can drop the D bomb first, CAll steve...