Ohh, I now know there is a PA.

The problem with exposure is this...everyone that I would expose to already knows. You've seen how much exposing the MIL helped.

Also, I found out last night that he went with her on a business trip three weeks ago. Her boss and lots of coworkers met him.

These people know me...I've worked with them, they know that I'm a good person and have never hurt my wife. Yet they stand back and watch and never tell me anything...they just accept it.

GF, What about Him. Does he have a wife, family any one to expose to?

Also, Have you considered talking to her boss and MIL in a respectful manner that you are trying to save your M and wonder how come they are in with what she is doing? They may get in on your side. Or they may not change but may give you insight on what she is telling them?

Also are you familiar with legal rights that you have to prevent your wife from exposing your children to a man that she was in A with while you are both married?

We can't tell you what to do but we can discuss options. At least you've got a little less than a month to figure stuff out and now maybe you'll step up your snooping and monitoring (recorders, hidden camera's) to get as much evidence as possible to win sole or at least primary ccustody and the home if you have to.

Filing is not giving up. Your marriage will remain savable even up to a year or two after a possible divorce. The statistics are in your favor but your best chance for saving it is posting here, counseling with the Harleys and continuing to fight for your family.

You may have to file if she intends to go through with the OM visit and the cruise this summer. But time will tell and we will be here to help you.

Options: You could move out WITH DAUGHTER this weekend. Do your parents live near by? You could call your attorney and ask what your rights are in your state but with the evidence you just found you'd likely appear justified in a court hearing...cause when she gets back and you guys are gone, she'll file. I may be an opportune time to file monday. Change the locks on the house, and pack her some bags on the front porch. File for emergency custody and right to the house. Or as I think you should do, lets discuss it, play this out, accumulate evidence and wait a few weeks on filing if you must to protect your daughter.

We'll see.

It is going to be OK, GF. It is real. My wife spent 2 weeks in a hotel with OM under the guise of being out trying to get some space and find herself. I was duped too. I knew the second she returned what had happened and we're a committed recovered couple now. Things change. All hope is not lost. Your wifes a crack head now, high on OM, and you're her only chance for redemption, fight for her, for your daughter and for yourself.

MR W

[color:"red"] *** EXPOSURE OPPORTUNITY *** [/color]



Expose the affair to the teacher and the school principal.

Say this in writing:

"Our family is in crisis. My wife is involved with another man and this creates horrible tension at home which I fear is having a seriously detrimental effect on DD. I am asking for your help. Is there anything I personally can do right now to help my daughter suceed at school while this crisis is going on at home? Please call me if there is any indication my DD needs special attention."

sign it with YOUR name only

KEEP a copy for your diary.

Pep

PS and DATE the letter and hand deliver a copy to the teacher and another copy to the principal

also ... add YOUR cell phone number to the message ... if you have your own personal phone ... AND YOUR email contact as well ....war is ******

Definitely a not.

I wonder what WS is thinking tha give her confidence to introduce your DD to OM. I wonder what she may be telling all those around her that is happening in your M that she is sort of parading OM around.

Also, have you been able to discuss with her the problems in your M?

A few others mentioned earlier about filing for temporary orders for your DD to be in your care. Seems that WW may need a serious jolt into reality. A temporary file for order to keep your DD from being exposed to OM may be just what is needed, definitely to protect your DD if nothing else.

It is important to protect DD from what her mother has in store which could have a bad effect on her in years to come.

Good Father,
I know how badly you want to confront the OM, but now is not the time. The sooner they know you know, the sooner they go deeper under ground, and the more time they have to get their story together.
Calling him now is like shooting a few arrows his way. Instead, gather all your proof, get yourself protected legally, get help and counsel for your daughter. Get help for yourself. Work on getting yourself stable.
Then start the war-and this time it will be like dropping a nuke on them.
There is a HUGE difference between lashing out when you are an emotional wreck and attacking when you have a well thought out plan. Its very hard to wait, but much more effective.

Good, not that she's having a PA but that you have documentation...though not a cause for divorce in your state it likely does have some bearing on child custody and who is the most fit parent.


I'm sure it's not MIL's proudest moment. Just cause they are not sure how to act don't assume they are totally against you. Stay on good terms with all of them as they may yet come through for you...especially when WW begins to waffle. Don't burn bridges, treat them all like they are on your side. They may even be an instrument for feeding false information into the infidels.


You can bet that she's lied to the boss and coworkers about the status of your marriage. Good exposure targets possibly.



They likely don't know what's going on. People keep their mouths shut but a least a few of them are probably distraught and upset about this. Exposure will bring the righteous ones out and now might be a good time to expose with her out of town. Let's discuss.

Mr. Wondering

GF~
Mortarman as always has great advice as to does MR.W
This does hurt and I too have been in your shoes right now. It does hurt. It's okay to hurt and vent your pain.
This pain will subside. Take the time to rest. Making plans with your daughter is perfect.
Father, daughter day... Perfect plan for personal recovery for both of you.... Have fun with your daughter and no talk about WW okay. Just a father daughter bonding day. You will feel much better too.

This eamil is information that you can use to your benefit.
Legally you now have concrete. You are learning about the enemy, and how to adjust your battle plan.

My WW would write that fantasy island fog babble too.
This is as bad as it gets. Mortarman is right on wiht that.

We are your support team... Remember we are your unit helping you fight this war. Who does your WW have? OM, and what is he? NOTHING....

Plan A takes time for results to show. Think of it as planting seeds in everyones mind. Everyone around and in your family. These seeds may lay dormant until the conditions are just right for growth.
Part of what you doing right now by pressuring the affair is to create the right conditions.

Post the emails and we can help you understand fog babble. This is part of your learning process that you can do. We all on here understand your pain, keep in mind you will make threw this.

Your at the right place with a support team like no other. What does the affair have for a team? A WW that is under the influence, an OM that is an idiot, a nothing.

You can do this, you have what it takes.

I can only imagine your pain.

Please do not do ANYTHING that will cause you to lose your advantage. Right now she thinks she can get away with anything.

Get your legal position set. I strongly recommend moving forward IMMEDIATELY with temporary custody and securing your home.

Your wife is a proud, smart woman who thinks she can pull off anything. She thinks this "divorce" is going to be maniupulated to her advantage. I think it is SUPREMELY important that you re-establish some respect in her eyes by pulling the rug out from under her.

The added benefit is the "stigma" she will have of losing custody of her daughter, and the judgement of friends and co-workers -- especially those who know what she's been up to. Needless to say, she's been telling some tall tales to everyone in her world to start moving support for the divorce to her side.

Hard to tell everyone how "awful" GF is when the courts have awarded him custody -- and she's left with the bad mom reputation!

Please please please understand her thought process in this. She truly believes she can manipulate this divorce, have you be "friendly", and present him as her "new love" and have everyone be happy for her. If she is introducing him to people, she has most likely already told people you are separated.

Take control of this process away from her. Your actions are critical right now!

In my opinion, yes, you need to file for Temporary Orders ASAP. You need to do this not so much because of him traveling to where you live but because of the planned Mediterranean cruise. I had a similar situation - my XH was traveling back to his country of origin to live with OW. I was very concerned he would try to take our son with him. My attorney (whose opinion I value immensely - one lawyer to another) advised that without the TO's my XH could up and take DS and I would have extreme difficulty getting him back. We filed immediately. If you file for Temporary Orders you can try to have control over DD's passport, which will prevent your WW from taking DD on the cruise. With Temporary Orders, she cannot just up and move herself and DD to OM's state to live. Also, you can try to have it written in the TO's that WW may not introduce DD to OM for a set period of time after the D is final. I also have written in my final divorce decree that neither parent may have a member of the opposite sex who is not related by blood or marriage stay overnight under the same roof as DS.

At this point in time, saving your marriage is important but not as important as protecting your DD. Now is the time to protect your DD at all costs. Get to your lawyer immediately and have him file ASAP so that WW cannot abscond with your DD.

Regards,

BB

{{{{{GF}}}}}

I know this morning was your real D-Day and I am sorry about it. Since I am probably the least sympathetic person to WSs on this board, I will not add much to what I already told you. But let me recap a few points I made to you: (1) you need to accept reality for what it is and (2) you need to grow a big backbone so WW does not continue to manipulate you and so that you get the courage to do what you need to do for your DD, yourself first, and then the M. Your WW is smart and callous. You in turn need to be strong and determined.

As for your legal situation I will just quote what I wrote to you on page 9 of this thread. I am of the same mind as Mr. W on this and my sentiment on this remains the same.


I think you need to expose to high heaven and bear in mind what Mr. W said: many of those people who met OM may be appalled by what they see WW doing. It is up to you to bring them officially to your side. As for exposure, I also said the following to you,


Pretending otherwise will not make your problems go away.

Needless to say, I second everything BB said. I think filing while WW is in Vegas and screwing OM is as good time as any to file . Or at the very least do it soon thereafter. Here's guessing the court will not look too kindly on this sleazy trip of hers.

My man, press your advantage. Press your advantage!

Heres one of the kickers from WW to OM:

Ok, so I was talking with Dave about this subject in light of all recent upheaval in our office we got talking about our future plans if the call/conversation with Ken doesn't go as planned. Dave is going to move to another agency and mentioned I could go with him but since it would only be a two block move I would still be stuck in WA! I told him about my confusion about where to go outside of WA, whether it is here, there or anywhere. To that comment he laughed. "Why would you move to another state when you still have things up in the air with OM? You should hold off on the move idea to another state until things either progress or stale with him. Picture this, you move to CA and then you guys decide to get serious and boom you are moving again, doesn't make sense. Why are you not planning on moving to VA as a first choice? I know I joke about you not going by why are you not contemplating that Little Missy?" Bear in mind that the "quotes" are the best to my recollection since some of us are not as gifted in the remembrance department!

So needless to say, his comments/advice got me thinking. Part of my brain says I do want to go to VA and see where things go with you but then the other half of my brain says, okay, so you go there and then things bomb, are you guys still going to be friends? Notice I have to listen to my brain because it is still able to reason versus simply listening to my heart. Would I be stuck in a town that I don't know anyone and the only other person I do know wants to do me bodily harm? At this point I know I am running the risk of saying to much and getting the much dreaded response of "I can barely do for myself; I can't handle having to worry about someone else." What will your reaction be to me saying this? I figured it better to write it down and not talk to you for a bit... that way you won't "react" in a way that will be hurtful. I am truly not placing any expectations on you (really I am not) but since Dave mentioned it I have had thoughts swirling around in my mind as to the logistics of it. Some good, some not so good. One thing that does come to mind is the "girl with a kid" comment you made, granted a while back but it still does weighs heavily. It's not fair of me to expect that you would want to progress a relationship at warp speed AND be faced with insta-family (just add water!). Would it freak you out? Am I placing expectations on you, would you feel like I am? Am I over stepping my bounds as a friend?? Why am I always being the forward one? I tell you that I care about you and then I say that I would consider moving out there to overcome the "distance"
thing, I feel like I am always jumping forward first. It's weird but I have only known you for a short period of time but I feel like you're my best friend-I think back to the puzzle thing. Corny I know, but I have a lot of friends but very few that I let "in" and I certainly do not have anyone that that seems to "get me" like you do. So anyways, I guess I should stay put until things do or do not pan out with you and me. Make sense? Ok, not that I really want to feel the wraith of your comments but what do you think or my rambling? Be honest, I can take it.

Okay, you happy? I sent you what I had written before I got interrupted and took out the part where I started to back pedal....




And here's his response:
Okay. So here's my much dreaded response...


First... I'm kind of freaked out.
Second, I'm just f*cking with you...
PSYCH! (Okay, is that getting old yet??) (=

Seriously, there was nothing in this e-mail that "freaked me out" or made me feel like you were placing any new or unusual expectations on me. I also don't feel like you were "over-stepping your bounds as a friend". Frankly, I appreciate most the fact that - despite your reservations to the contrary
- you still were willing to share your thoughts about things with me.
(Granted, it was like pulling teeth to get this freaking e-mail out of you!)
(= Anyhow, I just want to be clear before I respond directly to any of your questions that I never felt a twinge of anxiety or pressure when I was reading this - either yesterday OR today (so you can't say that it's because I was under the influence of Nyquil)! (= So, here are my responses...

Regarding Dave's comments to you - have I already told you that I like Dave?
(= I'm glad to know that someone else is out there who genuinely, I believe, cares about you (as opposed to some who may pretend to care for you when they in fact just want attention, validation, sex, and/or something else from you - known or unbeknownst to themselves). Basically, I got the feeling that he's someone you could trust (despite some of his possibly questionable choices in personal behavior, i.e. pursuing you outside a marriage without having communicated those feelings to his wife, etc.) - and that's a good thing. I do, however, still believe that there are certain conversations best not shared outside of a relationship. Basically, I don't mind you having "objective" conversations with others about you and me, but I would also prefer that some of the more private conversations/matters be kept strictly between you and I. I believe that some things just can't be understood by a "third party" and those are the conversations that I would prefer be kept between just the two of us. I think that we're already on the same page about this, but I figured - while I'm thinking about it - that I should probably share that thought with you. I guess what I'm asking is that you try to listen to your own feelings, your own instincts, over those of anyone else - including me. (I'd like to think that you can trust me completely, but I know that it's probably a little difficult for you in light of my occassionally "volatile" and "annihilistic" personality...) (=

Okay. So, regarding your thoughts about moving to Virginia... My thoughts right now are very similar to yours. I keep thinking that it would be nice to see you every day - and have you sleeping in my bed each night - but another part of me (my head, I guess) has some of the same reservations that you do. What if things don't work out for some reason? I don't want to put you in a potentially "risky" or difficult situation, especially when you seem to have so many good friends in Seattle. I also don't want to put you in a situation that's difficult for (DD) and (Good Father) without knowing where things are headed between you and me. But in order to find that out, I also need to be able to see you more often that I have. I hate the fact that you're so far away, d*mmit! Couldn't you have picked something closer than Washington State?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Oh well. Such is life, I guess. Nothing, it seems, can ever be simple. (= Anyway, I do like you a lot - and it's weird to be getting only glimpses of what it's like to actually be "with" you or around you. Despite some of our communications glitches, I've enjoyed the good times that we've had when we're hanging out together. (I know that I've been "difficult" to understand at times, though, too - but that makes me appreciate you even more, I think. I genuinely appreciate the fact that you've been willing to take that risk, because I know that I'm not necessarily the safest person in the world to be around right now.) And even though things might have been "rough" at times this past weekend, I ended up walking away feeling really good about things. I really enjoyed our time together on Sunday day and night - and I wish we had days like that more often. The rational side of me knows, though, that it's not going to be that simple. I'm not sure what to do about the distance thing, but I'm willing to discuss it with you further. The difference is that I would like to be able to discuss it with you in person or over the phone, and not just through e-mail! (=

Now, about the other things in the second paragraph - namely the "girl with a kid" comment and your remarks about our friendship, let's start off with the more potentially sensitive subject of the two: the "insta-family". I would be lying to say that some part of me - not a "loud" or overwhelming part of me, however - doesn't feel just a little bit of hesitancy when I think about the possibility of "entering" someone else's family. The idea that a child might not feel as strongly for me as she would her "real"
father - or the possibility that maybe I wouldn't feel the same love for that child as I would my own - those are thoughts that truly scare me. I would never want to feel those things - and it may not be, nor would it probably be the case that I WOULD feel those things. But, what if for some reason I don't feel that unconditional love or acceptance that every child should be able to feel? I would never be able to forgive myself because I would I never want someone - a child - to feel anything less. I want to be able to love my child or children unconditionally - and I don't doubt my ability to love my own children that way. Before Evi came along, I had never considered the possibility that I would or could love a child other than my own in the way that I have come to love her. But do I know that I'm capable of that in every situation or with ANY child? I don't. I do know that I wouldn't want to feel anything less, though - and that scares me.
What if, for some reason, I don't feel that same way? What if she doesn't feel the same way? What if she never feels for me what she feels for her father? Would she call me "(OM)" for the rest of my life - or "Dad"? I know that people say children love unconditionally, but is that always true?
Is it necessarily true for me - even if/when I think that it should be? I don't know; nor can I know any of these things for sure, and it's that uncertainty - the unfamiliarity of the situation - that makes me somewhat hesitant. I always figured that I would meet and marry someone under circumstances identical to my own. The situation in which I find myself with you, however, could potentially be an unfamiliar one. Does that mean that I've ruled out a relationship with you as a possibility? No, I haven't. Do I feel like it's some kind of "strike" against us? No, I don't. Does this change any of my feelings for you? No, it doesn't. It's something new, though - something different - that I need to become accustomed to and comfortable with. Despite the fact that I say I don't look for "paths", there actually ARE certain paths that I always expected myself to take. In the case of you and me, I'm simply having to adjust to the idea, the possibility, of a different path than the one that I always "expected".

Does that make any sense to you? My choice of words probably doesn't make you feel "all warm and fuzzy" inside, but it reflects for the most part, I think, how I feel right now. If I didn't like you as much as I do, I might not have been willing to consider a different "path". But it IS something that I'm willing to consider with you. I'm not able to predict the future (like you, apparently!), but I know that I feel more for you with every day that I've been able to spend with you. I consider you to be an invaluable friend - a bit of a saint even at this point - and someone who may very well become or may already be my best friend. My own personal trust issues, I think, are preventing me from being fully convinced of that, though. Part of me feels that you are; another part of me is reluctant to believe it.
Time, I think, (and patience on your part) are probably the only things that are going to resolve that debate in me. I know that those probably aren't the words that you want to hear from me, but they're the best I can do right now. My heart has been hidden away for a long time now - and I don't think that it's not going to emerge easily from its protective (albeit
candy-coated) "shell". (= I'm trying, though, and I hope that you've been able to see that. I look forward to talking with you each day, and I look forward to seeing you again even more. My only problem right now is that absence, unfortunately, does not make my heart grow fonder. It makes things harder. I just wish that I had a way to spend more days with you like the one we had this past Sunday. It stands out in my mind as a good day, and it continues to linger in my mind as a reminder that I want you here - beside me. I miss seeing you - but I also don't want to cause any turmoil in your life. I think that your idea to take things slowly - but not too slowly - is probably a good idea. I would absolutely like to see you more often. I would absolutely like to spend more time with you. But I also don't think that either one of us should be contemplating changing jobs or locations on behalf of the other - or at least not until we know that we're on the same "path". If you choose to stay in Seattle, I will make a point to come visit you there - despite the great distance! (= If you choose to move elsewhere for work, I'll visit you there as well. And if, in a few months - or however short or long a time it takes, we decide that moving closer together is something that we should consider, I'll absolutely be willing to talk about it - either now or then.

I hope that you'll be able to feel the same way. I know that it'll take a leap of faith, but like you said earlier, you're always the one who's been willing to jump first, and that's something that I appreciate in you more than you will probably ever know. I'm thankful for having met you, and I am thankful that you've been willing to trust me - despite some of my actions or some of your fears to the contrary. You've been a great friend to me and I'll never, ever forget that, (WW), no matter what happens - good or bad
- between us. Thank you for being so patient - not only tonight (waiting hours for my response), but last night and every other night where I've been a royal pain in your [censored]. I know I'm not the easiest person to deal with at this point in my life, so thanks, and - WHATEVER! (=

Goodnight...


*edited to protect the names of the innocent, and not so innocent*

omg, you don't even exist. Its as if she has completely erased you from her life. He has no idea his involvement is destroying a family.

Here is the most important thing to get out of that:
SHE IS LYING TO HIM.

And I know a lot of people think kids should not be put in the middle, but I would make sure my children know who their enemy is. Thats just me. Its very obviously a weakness in their fantasy you can exploit.

You've got a lot of ammo there, GF.
She really thinks she can just pack up your daughter and go wherever she wants with no fight from you. Incredible.

No this chain just makes me sick...it deals with the cruise...it's not till next summer...they are already planning vacations over a year out! And sexual inunedos.

WW to OM:

Like the confirmation page sent you? It appears we will have a lot of time on the boat since it shows we are only ‘at sea’ for ten days…I assume it will update overnight (=



Sorry if I was less than warm and fuzzy about the cruise. I just don’t want you thinking I am projecting (remind me to tell you about what my Mum said) and to be honest, it is soo far away and you are sooo broken, who knows (= I’m smiling while I am typing this but you probably not while you’re reading it! Hee hee.

OM to WW:

so, ah - to which "confirmation page" are you referring? i haven't received anything from you since the last time we talked today.

OM to WW:

um, yeah. i'm not smiling.
(=

just kidding...

WW to OM:

I sent you one, weird it did not get to you, maybe it was pooped out by your email scan stuff…



Oh yeah, my Mum thing. She gave me a stern warning. She said I need not be making the cruise into a honeymoon! Ha! We (at least I) had a good laugh at that one…



I am off to Bellevue tonight to find shoes….getting desperate!


OM to WW:

ahh, i see. (= so, when are you headed out to desperately look for shoes??

oh - and i just found the disney cruise confirmation. it was tagged as spam.


WW to OM:

Jesus, you are full of words today…I’m bored! I need something to do other than shop for shoes (=

OM to WW:

hmmm. if you were closer...

WW to OM:

Arg! Two days buddy…time to put your money where your mouth is!


OM to WW:
mmm-hmm... more like, "time for you to put your mouth where the money is..."
(=

Here's the conversation about how I took all the money:


WW to OM:

Ok, so I brought a signature card home on Friday to get (Good_Father) off of my bank account here in the building. I didn’t give it to him but he must of seen it lying around….and now, I have zero cash in that account.



Isn’t that special?? Nice!

OM to WW:

WHAT??! You've got to be f*cking kidding. How much did he take out - and when/how? It could have only been on Saturday or this morning, couldn't it? Are you sure there was money in it before?

WW to OM:

Yeah, I am SURE there was money in there. $4200 bucks was withdrawn last night per online (they process Sunday night for weekend transactions)…which means it happened over the weekend. He transferred the money into his account since he had access. Nice!

OM to WW:

Ummm... are you gonna say something about it tonight?? I'd be on a rampage right about now... (=

WW to OM:

Sure, I’ll say something but he was “entitled” to the money since he was still one the account, so I’m dumb! Or not fast enough!

OM to WW:

[censored]. sorry. that's pretty messed up. mmm, no - that's just someone being an outright *sshole...

WW to OM:

Yeah, the funny thing is he called this morning asking which credit card to use for his $185/session counseling he feels he now needs since I am such a b*tch!



Good think I canceled the appt. with Dr. Harley, she would have been all over that like flies on sh*t.

Is he implying anything like your daughter may not be your biological daughter? Not to pile it on in the middle of the most miserable day of your life but is that a possibility at all. Do you know your daughters blood type? MOST LIKELY, I think he's probably just knocking you as a father based upon the crap she's been feeding him. Even if you discover that to be the truth it DOES NOT affect your legal standing as her father.

WOW, the foggy ones have such a way of writing. Your wifes a "saint", mmmmmmmmm, interesting.

Looks like the relationship part of this has been pushed by your wife and that it is more recent than not. What is the date on this email? A short term affair is easier to recover from than a long term affair...so you got that going for you.

The boss/coworker that hit on her...he'll be an interesting exposure target...not to mention a potential witness. He might be someone you can get more information from with a shakedown (i.e. - tell me everything or I'll take this to your wife).

Notice how badly OM wants to keep things private. He may just be an experienced predator that knows how to keep things quiet...that outside influences might upset the applecart. He sounds angry, controlling, manipulative and violent. He is a worm, as they all are; and, HE WILL PALE IN COMPARISON TO YOU when all of this nonsense is said and done.

WOW

Mr. Wondering

Here's a couple more lies about me:

Wow-Toronto is out, (Good_Father) is adamant against it... Looks like six months with me six months with him but has to be in US...he's refusing to sign cross border custody if it became a possibility. So much drama in one day, i'm exhausted, how 'bout you? (=


and


K, well things got better when I got home. Needless to say he was very sorry...it's not something I ever expected from him so I have to give him grace, right? (= He moved all of his stuff out of the bathroom and bedroom so it appears I have gotten my bedroom back, yeah!
You still leaving on time? I am going to try to stay up.... if I do, I will call you (=

Spend this afternoon getting to your attorney and scheduling an emergency custody hearing.

Spend tonight sharing this stuff on MB.

Your time will be better spent during working hours getting some protection in place from your WW. She has spent THOUSANDS of marital assets on this scumbag. She has the intention of moving your daughter across the country and replacing you.

Get moving.

Damn, that OM is a total worm. That's great his comment about you being an *sshole... I guess a real gentlemen would finance his wive's affair.

You need to protect all your stuff if you haven't already, your wife is at total war against you.

If there is anyone you haven't exposed to in the family, then you should do it now. Do everything you can to make their little fantasy Vegas vacation as uncomfortable as possible.