That was really good Lem. Thanks. Reread Lemonmans post several times in the next few months and see how your perspective on it changes.

Mr. W

edited to add....Plan A is not just about what you do to, for, about WW. It's a personal evaluation and changing of yourself as well. You become the best man, father and husband (for as long as you remain married) as you can be. We all got a little lost along the way, some more than others....think back to what you dreamed your life would be like and start visualizing success for the rest of it. We've only got one shot. Seriously, Lemonman's post is really a good starting, middle and ending point for you to continue YOUR journey, individually, as you traverse this mess and beyond.

just wanted to say you're doing a good job GF....you're going thru the stages of grief also btw...you first were in denial, then you were in bargaining (whether to expose or not) and now you're into acceptance/anger phase, and ALL OF THIS IS TOTALLY NORMAL.

now get out there...expose without warning....and do tape the calls.

in my state, it is legal to tape calls as long as one of the parties knows the call is being taped. i did that. and I also got a hold of my xh's emails (then H of course)...cracked his codes. this was 3 years back, before I could find keylogger stuff and didn't know about it.

printed and sent them off to attny.

also, you can even have her hard drive seized as evidence...they can search hard drives for deleted incriminating files btw. my attny suggesed we do that to wh.

your ww is a particularly nasty one. I am glad you're finally standing up to her. and fact om lives so far away is gonna be the un-gluing of the affair. really is! reality will hit hard. courts don't want divorces where kids are sent one way and a parent across the country...they want divorced couples (really do...at least in my state they do) to be "happy divorcees" and live virtually next door or as close as possible and can put a distance limit on where you or your ww could move. only caveat, is that if one party was abusive, did drugs, or did something so dastardly that custody was lost. just don't give ww any ammo to use against you ok?

it's time to stand up to this fight.

my favorite Bible verse during my divorce? "therefore put on the full armor of God so that when the day of evil comes you may be able to stand...and after having done everything? TO STAND." That should really resonate with you knowing your military background. It's found in the "armor of God" chapter.

it says that you must put on god's armor. truth, faith, and peace. and you go to war against the infidels using these weapons. if you do ALL YOU CAN DO when this day of evil comes...and incidentally...YOU'RE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT...and you have faith and use truth as your sword, fighting the good fight and leaving NO STONE UNTURNED and stay tough and strong with 100 percent rock solid boundaries and a legal plan as well as a marriage plan in place, YOU ARE PROMISED TO BE STANDING AFTER THIS WAR.

I am.

and I did not recovery the marriage either. BUT I RECOVERED! I sure did!

There are recoveries all over the place here good father...some are recovered marriages...and what I see in common? the WS "gets it" and sees the ugliness and destruction THEY CREATED before...BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. and then there are some ws, such as mine, who was never allowed to see the pain or suffering or destruction b/c he was padded from ever doing so. (he's head of a company and has much money and can always "pad his fall" so to speak...never feel real pain or anguish b/c he can buy his way to happiness). Mine is destined ,until he has a life changing moment at some point in his life, to remain a WS.

stats show that most marriages recovery. I truly believe if my xh had less money, we'd have recovered probably two years ago. If he could ever be made to feel pain or discomfort or see ugliness from his affairs...and yea, he had AN OW1 AND AN OW2...he married instantly ow2...but is still carrying on w/ow1. ow1 is who he claims is his soulmate...and he's silently living a life filled with pain and hurt and sadness...he isn't really happy in his man made castle he's built. he is n't really happy at all. he is a man building dreams and wealth on earth and destroying any treasures in heaven. but that is the lot of the ws that doesn't wake up.

Please find peace and comfort in your doing the right thing. this war for your family, especially for the custody of your daughter, is just and right. in the end, after the last battle...and whether the end is divorce or reconciliation, YOU AND DD WILL WIN...why? because you'll have done all you could do. and you will be rewarded with your child and with peace. there is NOTHING LIKE THIS EVER. having walked thru fire for my ds, I can say this 100 percent. and I walked away with my dignity, my peace, and my conscience clean.

I was not some wilting flower who let her Ws walk over her and her life. I did not say "hey, please use me as your welcome mat darth...just wipe your waywardness all over me and I'll ask for more." nah. not at all. light was shed over dark and dingy places. truth was revealed. and there is not one thing I would do different.

so as one day in the near future, as you are hanging your armor of faith up, you will know that you're strong...you're loving...you're tough...and that you ARE A GOOD FATHER...and remember, our Good Father in heaven waged and is daily waging a war for our souls. You owe HIM a good fight too.

be a modern day version of the Knights Templar. You're on a journey and a mission to restore and protect something sacred from the infidels.

get tough. remain loving. set boundaries of stone. be 100 percent there and stalwart for your daughter...DO NOT GIVE IN TO THE INFIDELS! you will survive this and thrive and the war will be won...and remember either outcome will have you and DD together as long as you keep your wits about you and do what you've been advised to do by the good people here.

You wanna bet that peachy cranked out that email above in less time than it took me to get another cup of coffee? Like in probably 3 minutes or less...lol

great work by JP, as always.

GF wote:
"I mean she had sex with me after that! She had no qualms about it either; at least with this current affair, she's only having sex with one person."

GF, you need to have STD testing added to your list, if you haven't added it already.

The saying goes, when you sleep with someone, you are sleeping with every person that person has slept with. Your wife is promiscious. You need to protect yourself. GET TESTED.

Jo

incidentally...the primary goal of your fight now is securing your being the good father...that's it, having dd with you and not with the infidels.

and remember, it's not divorce or reconciliation that makes a "win"...it is securing the future of our little ones caught in the cross fires of a ws and a bs.

just maybe also if you do exposure, end plan A big and follow up with a good plan B and a great legal plan, you may get ww to see the crud she's created and she may change her tune...or she MAY NOT.

but either way, you'll have secured your dd's future. isn't that something? that is what being a loving tough parent is all about.

and the infidels? well if even a divorce happens, remember how they'll end up. they'll sacrifice all in their life to the affair..

LET ME EXPLAIN THIS..

my old sunday school teachers back home...a lovely couple in their seventies...taught young marrieds for at least 30 years...had much experience with this...as our old church back home was in an affluent part of town where affairs and money squabbles were the stuff of marital demise. My teachers said this to me when I called them crying on the day I found out judge really signed the papers. S emailed me, "honey. do you know what their life will be like? Lemme tell it to you. It's like what the Children of Israel did...they didn't want to trust God and follow Moses, their real leaders...they wanted instant gratification. They wanted the promised land now. NOW. and since they couldn't get it until a later time, they created idols out of stone and gold and worshipped these things. Darth's affair has become HIS IDOL. He worships it...and he WILL SACRIFICE NOW TO IT...HE WILL SACRIFICE ALL TO IT NOW...and so will the ow. we've seen it time and again. and one day, there will be nothing to burn...nothing to give to the idol. and it is that sad day when he will see what he lost. you worship the true God and you keep your faith. You show your ds who loves him and who is there for him. You won't be alone forever. but your H, darth, will be lonely in this affair marriage. It's days are numbered. we've seen it happen quite a few times sadly. THEY NEVER LAST."

I treasured these words. They are truth. `100 percent truth. and your WW and her OM will sacrifice all to their altar of lies and sin. if it goes the distance, and it's court time and divorce time, they will be slammed down by the legal system. they will not be allowed to take dd thousands of miles away. thus, the lovers will have to make difficult decisions to either one move, or the other give up custody. jobs will be changed and monies lost. all sacrifices to the ALTAR OF ADULTERY. they will sacrifice and suddenly, when there's nothing left to give to that idol, they will see the reality of what is REALLY THERE...NOTHING. why? all things good and pure and worthy of sacrifice were BURNED UP IN THEIR SIN. that is WHEN A WS WAKES UP.

it is a fact. if the WS doesn't see it before it is too late, they WILL SEE IT WHEN IT IS TOO LATE.

but the power actually lies with the BS...THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I WISH MORE PEOPLE HERE AT MB REALLY "GOT". We call the shots. We do. We decide in the end, when the affairs fall, if we want the WS back or not. We are the ones who hold the truth and the power to take back our lives, reclaim our sanity, and protect the little ones with us.
We're NOT STUPID ENOUGH TO GIVE OUR BEST TO SOMETHING DIRTY AND IMMORAL. We're not. BUT WE'RE STRONG ENOUGH TO DO THE RIGHT THING FOR THE RIGHT REASONS. We "GET IT".

ok...off my soapbox

Lem...believe it or not, I skipped starbucks today...lol.

blushing again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yea, and this guy is known for using his position to get with women. I heard a story of how someone walked into the office on the weekend and caught him with one of his subordinates.

It's been over three months since my WW and I were intimate, and I've not had any signs of anything, but that's not proof enough. I agree with your advice.

Peachy....thanks for the support.

Right now I'm not feeling anger or upset. Just disgusted, and confident in knowing what is really going on. I just hope I can keep this feeling of confidence when it comes time to actually see my WW again.

let the emotions go aside for a while...let the thinking man....the loving and protective dad and the soldier who fights for justice take the lead for a while.

deal with the events of the day and gradually piece by piece take this apart and gain control so you will remain with your dd and save her from this infernal misery her mother and her lover has created. it is destined to fail, but keep your daughter safe and secure and happy with you.

and take down the affair piece by piece a little at a time...set emotions aside. if you let your emotions guide you, which are raw and volatile, you'll make INCORRECT CHOICES.

again, the THINKING MAN, LOVING TOUGH DAD, AND JUST SOLDIER DOES THE DECISION MAKING HERE.

When the time comes for you to interact with your WW, remember she knows you VERY well. AND, she's been given notice that you are now effectively snooping and are up-to-date on what's REALLY going on (OM & her emails). She'll be very well prepared.

She knows all your hot buttons, she knows what will turn you into mush, she knows how to break you down in steps if necessary.

She'll most likely be very angry in attempt to defuse you or your recent discoveries. She will blame-shift. She will threaten and say you have caused her to jump right to a divorce. She will attack with character assasinations. She will try to make you feel bad for snooping into her PRIVATE email. Just remember, one who hides nothing, has nothing to hide.

The steaming hot bag of shame and dishonor she is carrying will be pointed entirely in your direction. Do not allow her to unload it on you. She owns it.

Jo

Getting good advice, GF! Soldier on.

In His arms.

Hang in there GF, be strong. God is on your side.

Hi GF,

Hope you are doing good today. If okay, would like to know how you’re doing on the following:

1. Exposure to all
2. Steve Harley Counseling Appt.
3. Journaling
4. Legal activities – retain an attroney, etc.
5. Snooping
6. Preping yourself for WW’s return from LV

Just trying to help keep you on track.

I’m also wondering where your love bank is in terms of units for your wife. I can imagine based on this w/e’s discoveries there were some BIG withdrawals.

Jo

GF...

Concerned for you...how 'bout an update?

Mrs. W

1. Exposed everything to my family, but WW won't have any contact with them anyway. Gonna expose to the neighbors tonight.

2. Don't have one scheduled, still waiting for my direct deposits to start going into my personal account instead of joint account.

3. Journaling is going good. Adding entries about the fact that my WW won't even talk to our DD. How long does this have to go on before the state will concider it abandonment?

4. Calling lawyer first thing in the morning, to hopefully get an appt. some time tomorrow. Should I push to have my WW kicked out of the house? I'd like everyone's input please!?!

5. Still can't get back into the laptop, but do have the equipment to monitor the house phone calls. Cell phone calls at best are going to be one sided.

6. I want to confront her about all of the lies, and both OM. I know I can stay calm, but will it do any good?

As far as the love bank...thats the strange thing...I hate my WW for making me feel this way; but I am still madly in love with her at the same time.

If she came home tomorrow and poured her guts out to me and begged me for forgiveness, I would forgive her in a heartbeat.

I'm so confused....why can't this be easy and just let me hate her?

Also, what do you guys think about me confronting OM?

I really really want to believe that when exposed to the truth, he'll disapear. But, I've been wrong about just about everyone in this sick twisted situation.

My WW can be very convincing...she is a very good liar, a habitual liar I've come to learn.

Those that know me, know that I can't lie for the life of me. But he doesn't know me, and he wants to believe my WW, and won't want to believe me.

Based on the emails we were able to read, I believe OM will eventually bolt once he's bored or inconvenienced. I believe he has no real intention of a long-term stake in this affair. Its a game to him because I think he's a major player. But even if this OM went away, your wife has a whole lot of work to do on herself. Remember, this isn't her first affair.


I don't think its worth your time or effort to contact him, GF. You'll be trying to convince an addict to quit his addiction. And I firmly believe this affair will die its own natural death all on its own. I think your job is to minimize the impact on you and your daughter while its still active. JMVHO.

Jo

If it were me, I'd take my lawyer's advice on that. The important thing is to secure your role as a primary caregiver to your DD. IMHO, the marriage itself is secondary to protecting your child.

I do think that it's important that you let your lawyer know that you want to repair the marriage, but the safety of your child is paramount.


I'm not sure what to tell you about that. I'm an honest person, and I'd have trouble keeping my own counsel on this. If it were me....my husband would find his shirts strewn across the lawn! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
But that's me and not you.

Your WW seems to think it's all over but the ink drying. She considers herself divorced already. So I doubt she'll be moved by any conversation you have with her.

So, to answer the question, "will it do any good?" No, I don't believe it will.

But whatever you decide, you don't want to give up any advantage you might have in gathering evidence. Don't tell her how you know what you know. Just say you know it.


I had the feeling when I read the emails that OM was skittish, uncommitted to a difficult path. Like you, I have to wonder what his reaction would be if he discovered that the path would not be an easy one.

That said, his personality seemed unstable to me, egocentric even. Contact from you would either open his eyes to the difficulties, or encourage him as a matter of challenge.

I think maybe I'd avoid dealing with him for now. The difficulties will begin to trickle down to him, and if you wait a while longer, you might even have evidence to present to him in the lies your WW tells you about him. It's a given that she lies to him about you. But it works both ways. The WS lies to EVERYBODY.

My two cents.

One other thing. From those emails I get the distinct impression your WW is the aggressor. She is NOT innocent in all this, by any means.

Jo

I agree...that is how it was when our relationship started. She was the one that said "I Love You" first. But once the relationship is established...then she no longer puts any effort in.