Ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You need that appointment NOW!

In His arms.

GF...

Your marriage is recoverable no matter what you choose to file...Follow the advice of your atty...Mr. W says that with limited financial resources it may be in your best interest to file for D now, in case that is an eventuality...rather than paying for the filing of LS and then later also having to pay for the D filing...filing D now could perhaps save you in legal fees...some states may allow you to file both simultaneously, btw...again, follow the advice of your atty...

Mrs. W

Living in the State of WA, my attorney told me a legal separation and a divorce are the same in terms of legally separating finances. He said all the ground work for a divorce is layed down within a LS in the State of WA, with the only diff being you're still married in name. (aka no final decree)

I did not have child custody issues in my divorce, so I can't share those type experiences.

Ask your attorney all these questions, GF. Make notes and store them at work.

God Bless,
Jo

I happen to know that Good Father is at his attorney's office as I type this, most likely to file for LS or D.

I'd like to request prayers for him from everyone. He is being very strong for his daughter, but I know this is tearing him apart inside.

Jo

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sending up a "Prayer Flare"...Be strong GF, you are fighting the good fight...

Mrs. W

Jo knows too much! LOL

OK, here's the break down:

Lawyer meeting went well, though I forgot to ask a bunch of my questions, so I just emailed her.

So here's how it stands; I filed for LS, we are going to put a restraining order to keep my WW from taking my DD out of state, and from introducing to any other men.

I'm delaying having her ordered from the home for 30 days. This can be extended if all goes well. Allowing me more time for plan A.

I decided to just go with the standard parenting plan, you know, every other weekend and one night a week...split holidays etc. If things go ok, I will be willing to negotiate this, I don't want to keep my DD from seeing her mother...just don't want her mother's bad habits rubbing off.

By filing for LS, I extend the amount of time it takes for our relationship to be completely over, making it that much harder for WW and OM to start a new life together. Also, there is no financial impact because at any time after the initial 6 months, I can petition to have it switched to a DV.

I don't know about all states, but here in Washington, LS and DV are essentially the same thing...LS just takes longer before marriage is done.

Did I do ok? Should I be tougher?

She also said that taping conversations is a huge NO in this state...don't do it I can be charged and lose any chance of custody.

Also she said I should hold off on exposing to OMs work until after the motion for temporary orders.

excellent work

well done!

kudos to you

Good job! You did great! Your lawyer seems on top of things.

So letting her stay in the house wasn't too "weak".

WW called...guess what...not coming home today! Surprise! NOT! Every single trip where she see's OM she always comes home a day or two late.

She said "You didn't tell me you talked to (IT guy at work) too. What did you talk about?"

I said "I asked him what he knew about OM", "Ohh yea? What did he say?" "That he's a friend" "Ohh surprised huh?"

Implying that he really is just a friend? Is she forgetting that I read her email?

You guys read the same email I did...am I drawing the wrong conclusion? Do friends talk about moving together and sharing beds?

I bought her a "make up card", and wrote in it that I still love her...is that too much? Especially since I filed for a LS today?

I'm so confused...I just want my wife back!

GF,

Seems to me you should be seeking SOLE custody...period. You can always NEGOTIATE back to the limited sharing plan your attorney proposed today. IMO, if you appear accepting of WW having ANY custody is kind of saying you are not really that shocked, disturbed and fearfull of WW's current behavior and unfitness.

Thus, I think you may want to reconsider as I believe your attorney may just be going by the typical divorce matters she/he has handled instead of whats best for you overall (this does concern me...father bias already). Going for it ALL, sends a powerfull message to WW that she is UNFIT as a parent in your eyes and it delivers a much more shock & awe. You can always play "nice" later.

Further, I believe your starting petition position is really what YOU expect/want however, I guarantee you WILL be asked to "negotiate" later in the court process. You can bet WW is going to ask for the same custody as you (in reverse priority) and the mediator/court will all attempt to get you to "settle" somewhere in the middle. Thus, in my opinion you need to ask for BEYOND what you expect to actually achieve what you want.

Additionally, it would be pretty ridiculous if WW were to petition for "Sole Custody" in response to your petition considering her recent behavior so you've already got HER moving YOUR way, in essence, acknowledging your cases merit right off the bat (if you follow my logic).

You are right though, no matter how bad the worst WS's are they still get some custody. Your wife will get some custody in the end and your daughter does, in fact, need her mother. Just remember, if the divorce eventually DOES happen you can always play nice THEN, amend the order and agree to whatever YOU feel is the best interests of YOUR family. However, Now is WAR and you're more likely to save your marriage being strong....DD is a magnet to ending the affair and attracking with OUT of the fog.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- you also want the whole process to take a REALLY long time. The longer it takes the more likely the affair will bust up and your wife will come back to the marriage. The more outrageous your position the less likely compromise will even seem possible. Your wife and OM will KNOW this ain't gonna be easy and I'm betting OM will cut bait and run sooner than later.

I'm not sure on the letting her stay in the house thing. My inclination is to say that's OK as you are trying to save the marriage. I do worry about her running off to Virginia or something but your filing should preclude that immediately.

Additionally, I worry about you not being able to tape record your own interactions with wife. You should have a recorder in your pocket with a mic taped to your chest just to preclude her from setting you up as a spouse or worse yet a child abuser somehow. Desparate times call for desparate measures. Do not underestimate a woman scorned. It would be very typical for your WW to attempt something like that in response to your filing. Talk to your attorney about what you CAN do, "legal" or not, to protect yourself from such false allegations.

Mr. Wondering

GF...

GREAT JOB...BUT, I think that you should move for SOLE CUSTODY of your DD...If the divorce should ever go through...at a much later date you can adjust this, if you choose...Your WW is NOT sane right now and should not be given any illusions that you think that she would make a fit mother for your DD...This is supposed to be a HUGE dose of reality for your WW...Right now SOLE CUSTODY is in the best interests of your DD...Further, by "standard parenting plan" do you mean that you would only have DD every other weekend and one weeknight? If that IS what you mean by that, then for sure NO WAY...that gives your WW EXACTLY what she will be seeking...What message does that send her??? GF, your attorney works for YOU...YOU call the shots...NOT the other way around, K? The attorney will be most comfortable with the standard...this is NOT for her comfort level...this is YOUR life and YOUR daughter that we are talking about...GO FOR BROKE!!!

Mrs. W

No the standard parenting plan applies the every other weekend and one week night to my WW...giving me the rest of the week and weekends.

Ok, I see where you are coming from with the full costody, but if my understanding is correct, this gives me full custody, and it is me agreeing to letting my WW spend the specified time with DD (at a minimum, though I can allow more if I see fit).

Also, my lawyer informed me that our state does not like to award "joint custody" where the child is with the parents 50/50, it's almost always in a schedule similiar to what I outlined.

Where the schedule stands now is not where I would like us to be. My ultimate goal is to allow both of us maximum time with DD, with me holding onto the decision making rights (primary custodian).

I am not opposed to DD spending time with WW, it's the spending time with WW and OM that I refuse to let happen. My WW is a smart woman, no doubt about it; she won't say or do anything thats going to further restrict her rights to her daughter.

GF...

There are a couple of reasons that you should be asking for SOLE CUSTODY of your DD...

1. If marital recovery is your goal here, then your filing for SOLE CUSTODY will be a HUGE wake up call for your WW...Dr. Harley explains that your child is a magnet that can attract your WW back to the marriage...that does NOT mean using your child as a pawn...there is a difference...

2. Right now, whether you see it or not, your WW is NOT a fit mother for your DD...she is NOT making responsible, rational or reasonable choices where your DD is concerned...Think about it GF, is she? Why would you allow your DD to placed in her care while she is acting like this? YOU are the only sane parent that your daughter has right now...YOU are her only advocate...Stand up and do what is right for her...Should you actually get a divorce, and your wife begins acting responsibly again, THEN you can revise custody agreements...

Mrs. W

Very good job at the attorney, GF.

Couple things. I say tape your wife's convos (phone calls, 1:1 w/you, etc.) regardless. This info you gain will be for YOU to assist you with your planning.

Also, I fear after you talked with your wife you are starting to believe your wife isn't having an affair. YOU DO KNOW BETTER, right?

She has such a strong influence on you, I'm worried you're going to become complacent when she returns. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Jo

JMVHO, but I think giving her a card when she's returning from a long week-end in Las Vegas with her lover is not a good idea. Seems to me you'd be rewarding her for her sleazy behavior.

Jo

Haven't read past this, but YOU ROCK!

I especially love the part where by filing LS you've made it much harder for the two adulterers to get together.

And no...you are doing VERY WELL!

When does she get notice? I'm sure this'll throw a monkeywrench into their works.

Congratulations! You've just taken another step towards gaining YOUR life back!

I echo what everyone is saying here...you are doing well. Mr. W has you on the right path legally.

What I want to prepare you for is Plan A now with this out. Your wife is going to go off on you. She is going to make threats. She is going to say things like "He is only a friend...but now you have blown it. I was going to work on things until you pulled this." Blah, blah, blah. Count on it!!!

It is fog babble, or fogese as some around here call it. DO NOT LISTEN TO IT!! It is a foreign language devoid of reality.

What you do is calmly nod your head as she spews fire and other vomit from her mouth...and then calmly repeat your mantra. And what is your mantra? Well, I would first advise you to go read Dazed's threads. He has proven to be the best at sticking to his mantra...to his mission.

But your mantra basically is this "Honey, I know that things have not been right in the past. I have seen where I have failed to be the husband you deserved. I am actively working on those things that I failed at in order to be a better husband. I believe we can make our marriage better and both of us can get what we need and desire from it. I do not want a divorce, nor am I seeking a divorce. I want your affair to end and for us to seek counseling and to move forward."

Wash, rinse, repeat...

You see, she is in the fog. The only way she will hear you is with repeated, CALM mantra. She cant grab onto facts right now. She is addicted...she is drunk. How would you talk to a drunk? Of course, you would talk to her slowly and repeat your words as necessary so she has a chance to comprehend.

Do NOT get on her rollercoaster!! She is going to turn 100 different ways. You stay on your path! And trust God that He will take care of you and your family.

Ultimately, there are no guarantees, J. But the odds are that affairs do not work out (they fail over 95% of the time). So the odds are in your favor, if you do the right things here. You will need to learn to trust your instruments (MB principles) as you are flying in the dark. Dont freak out. Trust that you are doign the right thing here.

Again, calm and mantra. Dont let her babble throw you off mission. Keep trying to meet her most important ENs without being a doormat (there is an art to that). We will help you keep moving forward. And odds are, even though there are no guarantees, that your wife will be with you in the end.

In His arms.