That makes sense...but to be honest, I'm really liking just talking to her again!

It probably sounds wierd, but even though we are argueing, It's so nice just to hear her voice.

There is no doubt in my mind that I still love her. And I'm starting to feel that there just might be a chance that we can work through this.

But ask me again tonight, and I'll probably say the opposite.

GF:

I'm glad that you love your WW. That'll help if you do reconcile.

If you can talk 2 her without arguing or LBing, then by all means go ahead.

Be mindful of them LBs, though... okay?

-ol' 2long

Your WW is going to start digging for where you're getting your info and your inner strength to stand up to her. At a minimum she'll start snooping to find any emails to/from your mom and/or your attorney.

As someone else so wisely advised .... [color:"red"]PROTECT YOUR MB LIFELINE! [/color]

You being an IT guy, you should know all the ways to circumvent her from finding out you come here. DO IT!

Jo

IMPORTANT P.S.

[color:"red"] DO NOT STORE ANYTHING IN YOUR CAR OR AT HOME! [/color] [/color]

Store stuff in your office at work, locked up.

Jo

One note...I put the OM's name on my filing. Loved it!!

In His arms.

Yup, OMs name is in the proposed parenting plan.

So about this Plan A letter...any samples around?

GF - here's a modified version of a Plan A letter that I wrote based upon the stock Plan B letter in SAA and with help from other posters here way back then. You obviously have to change it to suit your needs.

Keep in mind that this didn't work for my marriage, but it worked for me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Also, consider the advice from others here as to whether you ought to send such a letter.

Dear <Wife>,

We don’t get many chances to talk, so I’ll write this instead.

As I’ve said before, I still love you and want a chance to repair our relationship. This is despite knowing your affair with <OM> is continuing. I am painfully aware that I was not meeting your needs as a husband and I apologize for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with <OM> possible.

I have grown tremendously from this experience and I ask you to open your mind and see the changes for yourself. <Son> and I are closer than ever and I appreciate him more every day. He has told me he loves me more than ever before. I have looked at myself from your perspective and have recognized that my emotional outbursts of the past were judgmental, insensitive, and counterproductive. I have a new appreciation for your need to be able to freely express yourself without hesitation. You can feel safe voicing your anger and concerns. Whatever happens to us, these changes are permanent in me and I am a better person because of them. I feel much better about myself as a person and as an individual.

During this experience my efforts have been on changing me, not on blaming anyone else expecting them to change. I am the only person I can change. I know I have other improvements to make - and you can help me. Similarly, I can be the best person to help you make changes - if you allow me in. In short, I will avoid the mistakes I’ve made in the past and we can create a new life for the three of us that will meet all of our needs. It won’t happen overnight and it’ll take a lot of work, but we owe it to <son> to try hard to make it work. Choosing not to try is the blind way out and it leaves the same problems unsolved and creates more difficult ones.

<Son> and I are the two men who together can help you become happy for the rest of your life. We are a permanent reality, here for the long haul, and we have a lot of good memories for the foundation of a family. Similarly, you can make the two of us very, very happy. We want you and need you. I will support any need you have in a non-judgmental way when or if you decide to end your affair. You can come to me in safety, knowing I will embrace you. Even if you’re not sure, I will understand and provide empathy.

Whenever you are ready to talk, I’ll be ready to listen. I loved you when I married you and I love you to this day. I am willing to do whatever it takes to put our family back together. I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage so that we meet each other’s emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We can build a new relationship in which everything we do makes all three of us happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate.

I am here for you and I love you,

<Me>

Good letter WAT.

In His arms.

Thanks, MM, but I question whether this is wise at the moment for GF. Your thoughts?

Seems to me his alien is no where near the fence right now. Plan A letters may be most effective for teeterers. That said, planting the seed and giving the WS something to refer back to is the goal for these things, IMHO. Also, offering something positive to counter what will be perceived as negative - the legal steps - might be smart.

WAT

That is the goal. And yes, she is as fogged as it gets. But, by sending this, she will get the basics of who GF is and what he is trying to accomplish. Mainly, he is trying to save his marriage. When she gets the court filing, she will think the opposite. Why? Because SHE is thinking of ending it! So, she will be viewing events thru her own fogged out prism. Instead, with the letter (and his repeating his mantra over and over again), she will see that he has a different agenda. She may not accept that agenda. But over time, she will realize that he does have this agenda.

It is basically GF defining who he is and what he expects out of this process. Instead of her left to guess and to assume that he is just like her.

And GF is nowhere like his WW!!!

In His arms.

GF,

You have a Plan A letter when needed (see above). Any questions for WAT or MM?

How are things this morning?

Jo

Ok, well here's the update.

WW came home at DD's bed time last night. We allowed DD to stay up a little bit late to spend time with WW. After I put DD to bed, WW immediately called OM, and went outside to smoke.

I went to bed. At 1:30 I was woken up when WW came into the bedroom talking quite loudly on the phone to OM.

me: Is that OM?
WW: yes.
me: Please take your affair conversations outside.
WW: no, I can talk to whomever I want whenever I want, wherever I want.
me: It is disrespectful for you to talk to your lover in the presence of your husband. Please take your affair convesations outside.
WW: (tells OM what I said, they both laugh, and continue on with the conversation)
she moves to the bathroom, continues talking to OM
me: Please take your affair conversations outside.
WW: leave me alone! (and moves to spare bedroom)
me: please take your affair convesation outside.
WW: (Good Father) if you don't leave me alone I'm calling the cops.
me: please take your affair conversation outside.

WW closes the bedroom door in my face, then calls the cops. Cops come, and of course don't/won't/can't do anything about her complaint. I have every right to ask her to stop her conversation, and she has every right to tell me to "go fly a kite" as the cop said.

While the cops were still there, WW went and got DD dressed and was packing to leave, because I am "creeping her out" with how I've been acting the last couple of days. I politely asked her to not bring DD into this, she doesn't need to be woken up and taken out of the house. One of the cops chimed in there stating "She can take the daughter out of the house for a night if she chooses, just like she could on any night"...then he looks at her and says "but if she doesn't tell you exactly where she's going and is gone for more than a day; that is kidnapping and that is a class B Felony."

I again politely asked her not to take DD out of the house, and she stopped packing. The police left, and then WW called OM again. I went to bed, but couldn't sleep because I could hear WW talking to OM from the other room. So I got up and asked her to take it outside where I can't hear it again. She just closed the door, but I didn't hear anything more.


Went to sign the paperwork for the LS this morning, and lawyer is really pushing to serve WW at work, becuase it's so hard to predict when WW will be home, and we don't want to pay the process server to just sit around and wait. I'm going to try and get a hold of WW and see if she'll give a specific time that she's going to be home, because I agree that serving at work would look really vindictive.

Last night WW sent me this email, but I didn't see it until this morning:

"At this point I have requested that you allow me to spend time with DD without you around and you are not honoring that request. I do not like to feel uncomfortable being around you with you always trying to touch me, kiss me, tell me you love me when I have stated several times that those actions are unwelcome.



I suggested a plan where we take turns driving DD to and from school and spending the evening with her. In addition to that I would like to have rotating weekends or weekend days to ensure that we are both able to see her as much as possible to make this transition comfortable for her. You have been unwilling to discuss time and dates, why? I have been made to feel like I am being forced out by your lack of willingness to afford me the ability to spend time with her without your constant presence. I am frustrated that I allowed you time to re-bond with her when you got out of the Military and was finally on a “regular” shift after 4 and a half years of her life but now you are not willing work out a plan where we can be equal parts in her life without the tension between us. She should not be exposed to that, nor should she be exposed to our adult conversations about the separation.



Here is my proposal. Other than your reserve weekend, I would like to rotate weekends with her, whether it be the whole weekend or one day each. In addition, I would like to share the morning and evening routine by switching back and forth on a daily basis.



Let’s start Friday morning. We can start Thursday if you get this email in time. My Mom has asked DD and me to go up there this weekend. Since you guys were able to spend the weekend together last weekend, I would like the same opportunity, whether it is this weekend or next. Please let me know what you prefer.



I know that you are upset with this whole situation but you and I have to be concerned with DD first…we come second. Please let me know your thoughts on this plan or if you have your own proposal.



I have also set up an appointment for us next Tuesday. It is at 10am but they also have an opening at 2pm. I cannot allow the tension between us, even if you don’t feel it, I do and I can no longer allow it to make me feel like I have to hide from you because by doing that I am missing out on spending time with DD. Let’s figure something out…
"

And this is what I want to send back, but I want to get the oppinion of the "experts" here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"This is true. I am not honoring your request to spend time alone with DD. My actions are not those of a vindictive husband, but those of a father that does not feel it necessary to give up time with his daughter to help ease her mothers guilty conscience.

You requested that we take turns taking DD to school, but it is not I that has been unwilling to discuss times and dates, it is you that is not present in the home. When you are present, you are talking to OM. We have not discussed times and dates because of your choice to spend time away from the house and with OM.

As far as your proposal. The way I feel right now is that I don't think it is right us as a married couple to schedule "alone time" with our daughter. DD deserves a family...not just a mom and a dad that love her. You and I agree that she is an amazing little girl, and you know that she and I have bonded very closely. She and I are both very accustomed to spending time together now, and for me to give up that time, would put a strain on our bond.

I told you last night that DD has been invited to a birthday party on Saturday that we have already RSVP'd for. Yes we did get to spend last weekend together, but that was because of your choice. I mentioned several times that DD and I could go with you to Vegas, but you chose to plan a romantic getaway for you and OM instead.

Your comments about allowing me time to re-bond with DD after getting out of the Air Force sound noble, but if you're true intentions were for that to happen, it would have been a far better decision to not remove yourself, but to continue to take place in family events and strengthen our bond as a family. Unfortunately, I don't believe that you allowed time for DD and I to re-bond. I feel that this is an internal justification for your actions outside of your marriage. The simple fact is that shortly after I got on a "normal schedule", you're inappropriate contact with other men started. You knew that I would be able to be around more for DD, thus giving you the freedom to do what you please. Your actions are not noble, but selfish.

These are my grounds: I love our daughter. I will not give up time with our daughter. If you want to start spending time with her, of course I will not block you from doing so, but I will be present at all times that I am normally present. If your feelings preclude you from being around when I am around, that is on you; not me.

It has been your choices that have put us in this position, that have created this tension. I have maintained the same attitude that I have for years. I love you, and I love DD. Everything I have done over the years (petitioned to come back to the States, left active duty, gotten the vasectomy, resisted temptation in all of the "dirty" places that I visited while in the Air Force) was in the interest of maintaining and strengthening our marriage and our family life. Now, that your actions, and inability to resist temptation, have put us into this situation, where you no longer want to be a family, my focus must now shift from all of us, to me and DD.

What is this appointment that you set up? Counseling? I have already scheduled counseling for DD starting on Tuesday. I would be more than happy to attend marriage counseling with you, but I am afraid that it will do very little good while you choose to maintain your inappropriate relationship(s) outside of our marriage. We made a commitment to each other when we said our vows, and I have kept that commitment. I do not think it is right or fair for you to expect me to "come to terms" with your decision to break that commitment. "

OHHH...my lawyer just emailed and said that she filed a Domestic Violence Protection Order against me!!!! I'm going to be served tonight. I guess that answers the question about where to have her served!

Burn her!! She's a witch!

Bro-ther.

Have her served immediately, of course.

Stay the course GF.

WAT

GF,

Good job!

Whatever you do, do not send this note to your WW. It is a disaster. I will explain later.

Having said that, I am very proud of you. You have come a long way from when you started your first thread.

You are on the right track!!!

GF~
She is out of control. Be the sane one. Protect your family and get her served with the LS ASAP. I understand your reservation for serving at work, but you can't afford to play around any longer.

BTW~ Obtain a copy of the police report from last night and get it to your lawyer ASAP. The officer would have taken statements from you both and possibly wrote a summary of the visit in his own notes.
This will dispute the order she if filling. Also, Protection for abuse orders or from stalking must be COURT ordered. You will have the write to contest this. There will be a temporary orders hearing you can appeal to if you choose. That is how PFA's and PFS's work. Get your legal team on this to find out how to appeal her order.
You must appeal this so it is not used against you in court and custody of your daughter.

Next time she goes nuts on you in your home, have that pocket tape recorder on wide open brother... Then call the cops and play it for them......

Git'r done!

????

appointment with whom/what?

GF,

Wanna know what I think about a response? Dont respond!! At this point, nothing you say will get thru to her. And, some of what you said above would not look well in court.

That being said, let's look at what your lawyer just wrote. First off, how did your lawyer know? How did she send this to your lawyer, if she doesnt even know you have a lawyer because she hasnt been served yet?

Second, she probably went to the magistrate and said a whole bunch of lies. So, the first thign I would tell you to do is journal EVERY conversation and all interactions. You are going to have to take time to do this everyday. Another thing that will help is carry a voice-activated digital recorder in your pocket. Anytime you are around your WW, it should be on. Some of them will record for 7-12 hours, and then you can download the contents the next day on your work computer (not home computer!).

You need to do this because she is going to lie!! She is going to say you hit her, or did something else to her. By having recordings and documentation, you will protect yourself.

The officer was right about her leaving with your DD. She has the right to go. This is why that order you are working up needs to be served to her ASAP!! At this point, it doesnt matter where she is served. With that order in place, then she can be sent packing and you and daughter maintain residency.

Ask your lawyer what you need to do concerning this protective order. Let us know!

And actually, now that I think of it...respond to your wife's email like this:

"You said in this email you wanted to work with me. Then you go out and get a protective order. So, I guess you didnt want to work with me."

Here comes the fight GF. As I said, she is NOT your wife right now. She is a WW. Do not turn your back on her. Get the upper hand. Be two steps ahead of her. This si why everyone was screaming to get that stuff done earlier. You NEED to get ahead on this. Dont protect her! protect you and DD from her.

Right now, she is the enemy. Treat her as such.

In His arms.

"I went to bed. At 1:30 I was woken up when WW came into the bedroom talking quite loudly on the phone to OM."

GF,

I know I don't have to tell you this, but your WW intentionally walked into the bedroom talking LOUDLY to OM in order to wake you up and start a fight. It was all engineered by her so she could file some sort of order to discredit you in some manner for the coming legal events she has planned.

Problem is, you were prepared and didn't bite. Great job!

However, now she has went and filed an INVALID complaint "Domestic so-in-so" against you. What a manipulative lying WW she is, fogged to her eyeballs. And OM is just as evil in his collaboration of last night's events.

As UVA has responded, stay on this course. Do not let them shake your resolve to be the calm in the storm. We're very proud of you!

Jo

Your lawyer filed this morning, right?

I CAN'T GET A HOLD OF MY LAWYER!! I think I should leave and go get my DD and disappear until I can talk to her!

Am I over reacting?