Don't send anything. Its not going to benefit your situation in any way, IMVHO. Exposure has already been gained on that side of town. Nothing further is needed.

don't send anything

instead....

ask HER to send you emails she's received from your WW ...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

see how she responds

.... ought to be insightful as to ~her~ intention and loyalties

Was it UVA or someone else who said it was illegal to use a key logger to access someone's email. But, in your situation she left the email open or something like that, right?

If so, then maybe sending the most damning one would be okay. My initial reaction was to not trust that she isn't in cahoots with your WW. It sounds like she has enough proof of her own. Is she saying the the OM is totally denying any A to her? Is he still insisting they are 'just friends'?

It was SIS that said it's illegal to use a key logger...but I didn't, she gave me full access to the computer.

Yes, she's saying that OM is denying affair and insists that they are "good friends". I get the sense that she is just trying to find her way through all the lies, but I just don't know for sure.

I'm going to wait for her to call me again, she said she would...and then I'll try to get a better sense of her intentions.

What does it matter???

Well for starters its your evidence. YOUR INTEL. You risk the GF sharing what you have shared with her, with your wife. You in essence help your WW prepare her defense against you. You tip your hand and show her what you have that you'll be using as proof, and she and her attorney figure out how to mitigate or down play what those emails have in them.

Why even bother? The xGF does not need these, SHE KNOWS THE TRUTH ALREADY. If you fear she won't be your ally by denying her, tell her your attorney STRONGLY advised against it. Problem solved.

Jo

GF,

Would caution that, depending on the language contained in the Court's Order, sending the e-mails could be construed as a violation of the Protection Order against you. DO NOT SEND ANY E-MAILS TO OM's xGF until you lawyer ok's it.

Regards,

BB

I vote for not sending them but ask your attorney to be sure.

The friend could have told you but she didn't so I don't trust her at this point.

We're on pins and needles to see what SH said.

Ok, so SH that I need to be in a "guarded plan A" right now. He says not to refuse to talk to her, but to keep it short and focused on DD, unitl the PO is lifted.

He also said that due to the fact that my WW and MIL view morality as relative, that taking the "A's are wrong" approach won't work, I need to focus on what will make her happy.

He suggests that I pose the "ideal scenario" to her..."the ideal scenario for us is that our DDs parents love each other." He says that the first step is to get her to ADMIT that this would be the ideal scenario...not to get her to actually implement it yet.

The next step would be to get her to research what it would take to make that ideal scenario a reality...again, not to get her to implement it...just research what it would take. By researching he meant that I should suggest she read HNHN.

Right now there are only two approaches that I can take. The first (and ideal, because it works faster) is to try and educate her, specifically with HNHN, or talking to SH; but he agrees that she will probably not be receptive to this approach.

The other approach is like you all have suggested, to demonstrate change.

He warned me that I'm not going to be able to convince her to start looking at these other alternatives, or the ideal situation with one conversation or one magic statement...it's going to be a process of chipping away until she finally agrees to explore some other options.

With all due respect to Steve, she's not CLOSE to being ready for this, IMHO. Maybe this is what he meant for right now, as suggested by your other statement, "but he agrees that she will probably not be receptive to this approach."

My WS agreed to talk to Steve and also agreed to read HNHN. In hindsight, it was too soon (of course, the right time never arrived). She used the lovebank concepts in HNHN to help justify the affair "she wasn't having." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

WAT
-----------------
Boy meets grill.

Actually, I kind of like the irony of that, Kinda fitting at times donca thunk <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Not that I would EVER do anything like that deliberatly <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!

She just called again...I was in a great mood, and now I'm pissed again.

She's putting all these stipulations on canceling the PO...she's just playing games and it's pissing me off!

Now I have to talk to a counselor twice, and then she will think about letting me back in the house. She needs to get her butt out of the house, I'm so sick of this crap.

So, I try talking to her about it, to share my side of what is going on and she just hangs up...knowing full well that I can't call her back....freakin bit**.

LOL

let me anticipate your WW's "ideal senario" at the moment ...

"DD's parents love each other and help each other all the while WW divorces the loving husband but keeps him nearby to meet some of WW's ENs ... meanwhile introducing OM to DD so he can be part of a loving triangle for DD"

this will be interesting

she wants a friendly divorce with no hassles (for her) ... and if you two can manage to "love each other" after the divorce, so much the better (in WW's foggy-eyes)

crystal ball never lies <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> (almost)

keep your journal/diary up to date .... it will become a lifesaver for you later on

Pep

I agree completely, Dave. I too was surprised that SH recommended this to GF. Just doesn't make sense. I mean, WW had GFs butt kicked out of the house just 1 week ago because "he creeps her out"! How in the sam hill is he going to get her to read HNs/HNs?

Just because she's willingly talking to GF on the "PHONE" does not indicate she is anywhere near wanting to even consider reconciling. I'm perplexed.

Jo

GF

WHY WHY WHY are you still talking to her on the phone.

Have you told her this yet:

"I will be willing to talk to you only AFTER you have rescended the PO. Until then, all communication with the exception of DD related issues go thru my attorney"

PERIOD .. not negotiable ... end of discussion.

Until you do this you are asking for "I'm so sick of this crap". Its your deal, not hers.

YOU are enabling her to do this.

Jo

I think pieces of SH's message are obviously missing from what has been written here .... and that is to be expected ...

when I see a patient in my speciality clinic, it is an hour long appointment IN PERSON ... and from experience, only about 30% of info that was not written down is retained .... it's not a matter of intelligence ... but a matter of any of us being able to absorb only so much new data at a time ... before brain goes like this ~~~> mmmmmm ..... mmmmmm

the fact of WW's family of origin viewing infidelity as a NON-moral issue scares the bejeebers out of me ... SH stated that very clearly

Pep

Here, try this:
<assumes you've already told her no PO negotiations>

Ring ring ring:

GF: Hello

WW: I want to talk about the PO again

GF: I can't, I'm sorry but you need to contact <attorney's name here> about that. Is there something about DD you need to talk about?

WW: No, I want to talk about PO

GF: I'm so sorry, I need to go. Bye <CLICK>

Repeat after me "I own marriage issues, and my attorney owns the Divorce and all legal matters"

GF~ Great to hear that you talked to one of the masters!
Very good news!!!!!!

Now you have direction for your battle.....
Good for you!

I implore you to study how to do a PLAN A..... You must show to her that you are an option for her. Prove to her that you love her and believe in the marriage.... Try to be as appealing to her as possible.... Whent he affair ends, oh and it will, do you want to be an option for her?

This will go against the advice of many on here...

I agree that there are many many ways to save a marriage and yourself. Let's face it if it were so damn easy to do then no one would be on this website or need it for that matter....

Do what YOU can do and fits YOU. At the end of the day my friend you have only yourself to be accountable for.... Then the next morning you must look in the mirror and like what you see. I suggest never loosing sight of that as a guage to determine what is right for YOU and YOUR family...

I don't have any detail for you.... I just wish you luck and take care of yourself and your daughter..

Dazed

I think the operative word is "GUARDED". The PO discussion is a hot potato and has potential for love busters equating to Love Bank withdrawals. To GUARD your Plan A, defer the PO discussion with your WW to your attorney. Thats what you're paying her for.

Jo

I vote for Plan PO.

See my example dialogue a page or two above - having something to do with laundering shoelaces.

If it's not about an emergency with GF's daughter, no dialogue. Period.

WAT
------------------
Play the role, pay the toll.

WAT, thank you for the advice, but I am not willing to refuse time speaking/spending time with DD, just to make a point to WW.

I heard from my lawyer and she says that once I have counseling twice, WW will cancel the PO. I told her that I have talked to two different counselors, and speak to a support group every day. So now it's time for WW to show some good will, and follow through with her word.

Yea, like that's gonna happen.