In Michigan they would call the woman you are meeting with the Guardiam Ad Litem. Her conclusions and report to the mediators carries a SIGNIFICANT amount of weight. If it were given to the court I would say it would be the equivalent to the Judge's orders as Judge's tend to rely exclusively on the Guardiam Ad Litem's conclusions. With Mediators you can still oppose the G.A.L.'s report, if it's unfavorable to you, and win, though a much more difficult hurdle to overcome.

You do not bring your attorney with you. Before the Mediators, you and your wife will likely have counsel and your daughter will have that woman (in person or by report). All three are represented in the process.

If the woman is a nutjob, you may appeal her conclusions and perhaps request another person as your assigned "case worker". If she's biased, where the law indicates she is not to be, you would have grounds for appeal. Hopefully, she will write her report in your favor the first time and you can avoid future struggles...at least from your side of the dispute. sidenote - Much easier for a man to claim bias as the reports TEND to be disfavorable to men even though state law usually says "no bias" based upon gender.

The "social worker"/court pyschologist/Guardiam Ad Litem is assigned the task of sorting through the nonsense to make a determination, based upon her experience, her interviews with the two of you and maybe daughter, and provide the court with a supposed unbiased perspective of what she believes to be in your daughters best interests. She represents YOUR daughter. Your meeting with her is VERY important. First impressions are very important. I know you've read some about how to handle yourself and I hope others chime in here with their experience with these persons.

I have never personally been involved with persons but recommend you study up the material we sent you. Do not be baited into ancillary arguments and carefully/craftfully bait your wife and then diffuse her by stating you are there for your daughter and everything else is superflous. Be confident and strong. Look your best (Milatary Uniform???)

Good luck, Mr. Wondering

Thanks Mr. W. From my conversation with her, I'm not exactly sure that she is going to be a GAL. She was not court ordered, just something that WW and I agreed on.

I'll have a better sense of what is going on tomorrow after the meeting.

Tell me please that your wife did not "find" this social worker in any way, shape or manner. What do you know about her? Why did you agree to her? Who recommended you get her and for what purpose?

I am apprehensive when you state you intend to just walk in blind tomorrow and get a "sense" of her role. What if wife shows up with a box full of "evidence" and you're ill-prepared?. Call your attorney, not the woman you are meeting with, and get the skinny. You've already sent the woman an email today. Don't harass her further as it may make you appear badly.

Since you have her email you could ask your attorney if you could send her a short question email with the intention of laying some groundwork innocuously biasing her towards you.


For example:

Dear Mrs. Counselor,

As you may be aware, I am currently "restrained" from contacting my wife, been removed from my marital home and necessarily removed from my daughter due to the unprovoked Temporary Retraining Order my wife obtained against me two weeks ago. For your information, and the transcripts can attest to the fact, I merely asked her to take her phone conversation with her affair partner outside our marital home and away from our daughter and I. But, that's beside the point.

I desparately seek to right this situation for our daughters sake, as I have been Sally's primary caregiver for the last ___ years/months. I am very concerned for her well being, especially in light of my wife's infidelity with Mr. Ira Tating and her work schedule. My wife is currently not in her right mind which you will likely very soon discover.

To avoid the situation and shock I endured at the initial Restraining Order hearing, I would like to be fully prepared to present my "case" or at the very least back up as much of my statements as I can with documentation. My attorney has not called me back and as the time for our meeting draws near I thought I'd write you.

Thus my question. Should I bring along to our meeting today the documentation I have currently accumulated which can corroborate my discussions and statements to you? I only want to make your job easier and avoid a he said/she said situation within which you can only guess at the truth at hand. As you come highly recommended, I know you will agree that our daughter, and any child for that matter, deserves more than just a guess.

Good Father


I'm betting your attorney says...no way. But if the meeting is tomorrow afternoon and she says OK, as long as you pass it by her first, then we can discuss it more tonight. Further, even if your attorney says "NO" today, I presume you will meet with this woman a few times. Ask the question orally tomorrow if you are alone with her (outside earshot of your wife) what kind of documentation she wants and needs to make an fully informed decision. Take notes and appear very professional. Your daughters interests are your PRIMARY and only concern to YOU in front of this woman.

Finally, if you both get alone time...GO FIRST, if you can.

Mr. W

edited to tone down my letter...thanks Mrs. W

Got it! It was WW's lawyer that suggested her, so I asked my lawyer if she has worked with her before. She said yes, and she is very fair minded and has taught at several "collaborative law" seminars.

I've already emailed my lawyer and asked her what exactly to expect tomorrow...I don't want to go in blind. I haven't emailed the mediator anymore, because like you said...I don't want to annoy her.

Also, I'm taking DD to her counselor again tomorrow.

Also, my WW will not be going in with a mountain of evidence. She didn't even know if we were meeting her tomorrow or not...she had to call and ask me!

I like the letter, but unfortunately, the appointment is at 9 am...so I'm likely not going to get a response to it since it's already a quarter to 5 here.

So, I'm going to bring my log and phone records tomorrow, and have them ready in case I can/need to use them.

I hope WW's attorney is just using someone that is really fair and impartial and NOT a "ringer". I'm guessing WW's attorney knows not how much trouble his/her client is in. Your wife's overconfidence usually carries through to her attorney. However, if WW's attorney uses her a lot she will more likely side with her referral source to protect her financial interests (can you say "referral"). Sure she may appear "impartial" but you should investigate such a little by asking questions. Careful not to offend but you'll likely appear savvy and smart if you do a little questioning of her impartiality. Maybe tomorrow is an interview by the both of you on whether you are each comfortable with this woman before she proceeds further with the case.

I would also print out and have memorized the Harley article available on the main website which fully outlines the damage infidelity inflicts upon children. It may behoove you to slide that in as a question to the counselor.

For example:

"Do you believe that infidelity has any negative impact on children coming from a broken home" or something like that. If she asks you to expound upon the question, without mentioning the source, indicate that you have read some interesting studies by prominent marriage counselors that state that children from broken homes wherein infidelity was the cause of the divorce have significant and common problems if raised by the wayward parent. Such as x, y and z. (or something to that effect).

If she disputes such and says that "infidelity is irrelevant to such matters of custody and are not to be considered at all", then I say...get another counselor. If she is sympathetic and says it is a consideration...you've got your gal.

Just test the waters if you can...again, especially if alone with the counselor. Carefull not to appear vindictive or abusive by saying to much about the affair in front of your wife. Mention it...to get wife in a huff, but don't hammer it. Again, you are primarily concerned about your daughters best interests.

Whatever happens...do not allow this woman to steam roll you. She's gonna walk in and expect the usual situation and try to move things along their customary path. Respectfully, interrupt and request she listen first before proceeding.

Another thought. Ask your attorney if you should refer to yourself as a "Stay at home father"...language and titles are important, they portray images and are automatically defined....do not shy away from that title. Embrace it proudly and REPEAT often. Other power words and phrases..."primary caregiver", your daughters first name, the "councelors" name (memorize it). Maybe when referring to wife's job call her a Career focused Woman, an Executive. When referring to wife be respectful also, keep your anger in check.

W

Here's the email from my lawyer:

Mediator is basically a parenting expert. She works with parents to come up with plans that are in the best interests of the child and take the child's needs into consideration. She is not a GAL, which is a good thing. GALs don't do much. They talk with each parent and do background checks but they don't have the time to really sit down with the parties or the children and try and help them. They do a cursory investigation and submit a report to the court. There is nothing to prepare for, but keep an open mind and listen to what she has to say about the best interests of your daughter. You can wear a suit or something more casual. It's not a formal situation. I am sure she is going to ask each of you questions about your parenting and the other person's parenting . She needs to figure out the family dynamics and what is driving the animosity so she can try to get you both to focus on your daughter and what is in her best interests. You need to keep in mind that your daughter has two parents and it is in her best interest to have the healthiest relationship with both of you that she can. Let me know how it goes.

Ask one more question.

If my wife and I are unable to agree on a "parenting plan" then will this woman be presenting her opinion to the mediators OR will we have to get a GAL later?

Important question...cause if this woman is NOT going to be the one giving her professional opinion to the Mediators that will DECIDE your custody dispute (cause I am presuming you will not reach a fair and just custody agreement) then you can just listen, be respectful and take notes. You do not want to tip your hand to much and forewarn WW of the impending battle. You want WW unprepared for the day she and you actually do sit down with the person that WILL make the formal recommendation to the Mediators.

Further, you need to get back in that home come heck or high water. You need to "play nice" tomorrow if that woman really has no "official" say in your matter. If there is nothing to "win" tomorrow, just play along. If you get alone ask the woman questions pertaining to her experience with infidelity cases. Again, if she's got no say, then use her as a source of information on Washington Law and specifically ask her about the specific Harley forementioned article on the lasting effects of infidelity on children.

W

Some pit-bull you got here.

You should write her back tonight/tomorrow and indicate that it is your opinion the "healthiest" relationship that your daughter can have with WW, other than in a reconciled marriage, would be for WW to have as close to zero contact and influence on the rearing of your daughter as possible. Include a copy of the Harley article to her.

Your attorney is all you've got. You can't switch due to money so TRY to get her into the fight emotionally. Why should you be denied full access to your daughter becuase your wife CHOOSE to run out and have an insiduous affair and break up your family. Her self-indulgent choices necessarily and quite apparantly exhibit her unfitness as a responsible parent...RIGHT NOW and in the immediate future. Be sure to state that you fully intend to seek and win "Primary to Full Custody" with her wise counsel. Indicate that you may choose to alter the parenting schedule one or two years down the road when your wife will undoubtedly seek forgiveness and has removed OM from your lives but as long as she remains unrepentent (whether married or not) and OM stays in the picture you intend to "protect" your daughter to the fullest extent of the law from exposure to such inappropriate behavior.

Somehow indicate further that you do not seek this and ask for her help fighting for this as vindication or in anger against WW. You wish your marriage could be restored and winning might just be the "magnet" which wakes WW up from her Affair Delusions. For now, you seek to protect your daughter from WW and OM's influence only and hope she is fully on board with your intentions, feelings and concerns.

W

I would like to remind everyone that GF's WW has connections in the legal/judicial system in his area. The first OM (her co-worker) that she had a quick affair with (the one that bought her an expensive bracelet) knows judges with clout, etc. And he and she (WW) are still good friends.

So any "referral" his WW's attorney recommends is suspect in my mind.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Jo

Well WW is definately playing games tonight. She called to figure out plans, because sure enough, DD wants to spend the night with me again.

WW is pissed that DD found out she had a "friend" over this weekend, but she told DD that she didn't and that she was working. DD heard me tell my lawyer, so I said friend instead of the more appropriate words.

WW called and accused me of talking bad about her to DD. I said "no, I didn't, she's smart. She knew that you told her you were working, then she heard that you are had a friend over...she put it all together."

WW: you're playing games, and are childish...there is no way you can win this.

me: Ok, I understand you feel that way

WW: it's not a feeling, I know it...you can't win this

me: ok, I understand you feel that way

ww: click

Anyway, I when I picked up DD I asked "So we're having the meeting tomorrow. When are you going to cancel the PO?" Her response: She shrugged and did the "I don't know" under your breath thing.

me: my lawyer and I are under the impression that I am meeting your requirements tomorrow and that you will cancel the PO.

WW: uhh, that's not the impression me and my lawyer have...ohh well I guess we'll just have to see what happens tomorrow.

me: ok, see you tomorrow then.

I put DD into the car and close the door.

WW: You need to be more careful about what you say to your lawyer infront of DD.

me: I told my lawyer that you had a "friend" over this weekend. Nothing wrong with DD hearing that. I'm not stupid, I will not use DD as a tool against you.

WW: I don't think your stupid...I just think you're childish.

me: You are entitled to that opinion. Though I remind you that I'm not the one thats been lying, and generally those that tend to lie are the childish ones.

I hopped in my car and drove off.

So, as Mr. W says...play nice to get back in the house, then go for the gold!

GF - she's not going to let you back in my friend. I do hope you have a legal strategy in mind. Is your current lawyer up to the job?

I doubt it...but I'm trying to motivate her.

Also, I read the article about the lessons children learn...I wonder when WW is going to be able to read and understand it.

Should I print it out and bring it tomorrow? Will it do any good?

I am guessing but I think that tomorrow is an educational meeting to motivate you two to come to an understanding and encourage you two to settle. You will be strongly lectured to "feel" that a settlement is in the best interests of daughter. Since it has NO BEARING on the forthcoming actual fight (confirm this with your attorney by cell phone or whatever before you enter), play the game and HOPE your wife falls for it, believes she's got you played and lets you back in the home.

If the woman's opinion will enter the record and will bear on the matter before the mediators then you must try to be persuasive and let the battle ensue.

As far as bringing the article with you... Sure...but only use it if you refer to it and she asks to see it. You do not need to appear as though you are educating the expert and think you are smarter than her. You may appear a chauvinist. If she has no bearing on the case...don't share it other than in conversation if it fits and you are alone.

Have your documentation with you...sounds like WW wants to play a game or two tomorrow. Don't be surprised or panicked. The little games/wars mean nothing...keep your eye on the prize, the final custody decree.

About your conversation with her tonight. Play dumb about legal matters. The more confident she is the less prepared her and her attorney will be. If tomorrow has no real bearing on the case play possum and let her think you're defeated and beat. You can feign surrender up to the very moment prior to your next real court meeting possibly even having her attorney draft up agreement after agreement thinking you ALMOST have a deal only for you to cancel at the very last minute. She will be ill prepared for your eventual onslaught, when you walk in with boxes of corroborating evidence.

Good luck, Mr. W

I did want to mention one more thing:

You may, in the end, lose "primary" custody. No matter what we/you say or do, the court may rule against you. I'd guess you've got a 60% to 80% chance of winning. However, even if you lose there will be a court record (albeit mediaton record) that you tried. You will live to fight again. She may violate court orders or fail to live up to her end of the agreement. She may rely on you, as she does now, to assume a greater role in your daughters life because she is to selfish and immature to handle her herself. In most jurisdictions, custody arrangements are reviewable upon certain timetables (such as biannually). You will continue documenting your case and hope for a better result if and when you get another opportunity to fight.

Finally, your daughter WILL grow up. You will be able to talk to her and openly discuss all these matters with her. The mediation file will demonstrate to her just how hard you fought for HER and love/loved HER.

So no matter how this all turns out...you are a winner and have integrity for at the very least stepping into the ring. I commend you and WE here are behind you supporting you all the way.

You will make it...yes suree, YOU will make it.

W

p.s. - Your wife's betrayal is HER issue and resulted from her poor choices and weak or defective character. Her affair has very little, if anything to do with you and you should NOT be ashamed of it. Your wife in the arms of another does not make YOU any lessor of a man. Nothing your wife or anyone else says or does can put into question your masculinity, for YOU, as a Man...necessarily, are the only qualified individual in your marriage, family and community that can define YOUR masculinity. Stand Tall. Be confident.

p.p.s. - Appear empathetic of WW, but do not allow her to abuse or belittle you in front of others. Act like the man you choose to be and DON'T REACT to WW's games. Your mantra... "Act, Don't React".

Post deleted by Cherished

A big ditto to Cherished.

Don't make those "accusations." She'll just hunker down further.

WAT

Unfortunately, no it won't. When people are involved in affairs they have placed blinders on themselves that prevent them from seeing what they normally would detest or find contemptible in others.

But as we all know, when they do it, ITS DIFFERENT. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I think the term is self-rationalization or justification. Or even denial.

I don't know why, but I've had an uneasy feeling about GF's first mediation session this morning. Maybe its just because he was blindsided by his WW once before (kicked out of his home after her affair w/e). She is so not to be trusted. <bitting nails>

I hope he posts an update once its concluded.

Jo

I had the same squidgy feeling, Jo...I keep checking back to see what happened.

Thinking of you GF.

- Kimmy