Well she called again, to ask me what is up with the PO...I said I don't know..it's up to her...

"well I have a call into my lawyer, you're being wierd again"

me: your entitled to that belief.

ww: damn right I am

me: yes you are, we agree on that

ww and me: lots of back and forth not making any progess, making things worse...ends up like this:

me: I don't care what you think about me, I am wanting to work with you to do what is best for DD.

ww: Whats best for DD is for us to do my parenting plan and go 50-50.

me: right now I'm not sure that's what is best. That's why we need to see the mediator.

ww: I'm giving you what is fair and far better than what you would get through the court.

me: we need to continue with the mediator to determine what is best for DD, and a situation we are both comfortable with.

ww: just sign my parenting plan!

me: That's not mediation, that's "do it my way, now!" I'm not going to do that, we need to see the mediator...goodbye. click

WW calls back 5 minutes later: so what's the point of going to the mediator tomorrow?

me: to see if we can work out a senario that we are both happy with, and what is best for DD.

WW: I'm offering you 50-50 why don't you just take it, that's what is best for DD.

me: I'm not convinced that's what is best for DD at this time.

ww and me: more back and forth...my point = we need to go to the mediator...her point = why bother?

conversation ends with:

WW: are you taking her to swim lessons tonight?

me: no, I think you should take her as planned, she's looking forward to it.

ww: fine

me: are we going to the mediat...(didn't get to finish the question, she hung up)

This is not going to work well.

Ohh, almost forgot... in her ranting she accused me of having a key logger on her computer.

me: nope...not going to do anything illigal to jepordize my legal position.

ww: well there's one there

me: ohh, wonder how that got there

ww: don't play dumb, you put it there

me: nope, if it's there someone else put it there, maybe you?

ww: I wouldn't know how to do that.

me: IT guy could help, or google is a great tool

ww: so your saying I would do that to implicate you?

me: wouldn't put it past you. So let's get back to the point...we need to figure out what is best for DD...

Why are you having these conversations?

2long, my sentiments exactly!

GF, do you engage your DD5 in conversations like the ones you been having with your WW? I'm gonna guess that you don't because you can't use logic or reason with a 5 year old, right? Same goes for a WW...Read up on Orchid's reverse babble-search for one of her posts, the link is in her signature line...There simply is no rationalizing with the irrational, K?

Mrs. W

Yes, use RB.

OR: Do what I did when my W wanted 2 argue with me. I'd either not answer the phone (but you may not have that option if you're expecting 2 talk about or 2 your DD), or I'd simply hang up.

Don't be mean hanging up. Say something like "oh darn, that toilet's running again (let her interpret THAT any way she likes), and hang up.

-ol' 2long

I agree, stop participating.

Do what 2Long suggested, just find a reason to hang up politely.

Have your hang-up reasons written down on post-its in your shirt pocket, and when the convo takes a dive, pull out your hang-up excuses and USE ONE! But always be polite.

She called again:

WW: here's my proposal, I know you can't stay with your friend anymore, so why don't you talk to this other friend about staying with him for two weeks.

me: um...no. We need to work this out with the mediator tomorrow.

WW: NO, THIS IS MY OFFER, AND YOU CAN TAKE IT OR WE'RE GOING TO COURT!

me: I'm going to be at the mediator's tomorrow, ready to negotiate a plan to be "fair and equitable" and start to determine what is best for DD.

WW: You better talk to your lawyer then.

me: I will, and I'll be at the mediator's tomorrow. Goodbye.

And of course YOU ALL ARE RIGHT, of course!

That's it...no more conversations with her! I talk to her expecting to talk about DD, but get sucked into her arguements.

I'll just stop answering the phone, unless I know it's time to talk to DD.

Blah!

Talked to lawyer. She's on board. She is contacting WW's lawyer and "suggesting" that he advise his client to be "fair and equitable" with time in the marital home. I asked what happens if WW refuses to let me have the home tomorrow...she says we fight for my right to the house.

FINALLY!!! Some dedication from my lawyer!

Mr. W, apparently WW's lawyer told mine that I was planning on just showing up at the door step with my bags tomorrow morning. My lawyer said this is the WRONG thing to do! I need to show that I am willing to work through mediation...let WW show that she's the problem, not me. If she doesn't let me back into the house through negotiations, then we fight.

Based on what you've told us regarding the mediation and now your wife's reaction where she's demanding you HURRY UP and do a 50/50 NOW like SHE wants!, it seems your wife didn't like the session. Probably because she fears the mediator will be FAIR. And thats because the Mediator, like you, is dealing in reality.

This is what we here at MB call punching holes in the WW's Fog.

I would consider her (WW) frantic demands to do it her way NOW, a very positive sign that going through this mediator is the right thing to do. Think about it.

I agree, for now. I don't see us coming to a real solution this way, but perhaps (big huge but perhaps) it will take enough time, and expose enough truth, that her eyes will start being able to pierce the fog.

Or maybe she'll just disappear and go start her new life with OM, like she did with me.

I still vehemently disagree. There is NO BINDING mediation and negotiating taking place. Your WW is merely making demands from a superior position and she will maintain that position for as long as she can. She is NOT going to accept less than 50-50 custody. She is not going to "AGREE" to allow you back home. She is NOT going to be really reasonable. It just won't be feasible to her that she should accept less than 50-50. She thinks, in her fogged out head, that 50-50 is the most reasonable position in the world. She thinks she's entitled to primary. You just ain't gonna change her wayward mind. So what's to negotiate. In addition, your bottom line is "primary" custody. She gets every other weekend, a weeknight or two, and alternating holidays. That's your "reasonable" position and it's a BIG step down from WW should be instituitionalized and restrained from contact with daughter 100% of the time UNTIL she ends her affair.

Thus, I still say, move home AND show up for mediation and you'll still be fulfilling your attorneys desire to "show that GF is willing to work through mediation" but you'll be "mediating/negotiating" on a level playing field. Again, nothing you stated today should be used against you...you aren't painted into a corner just cause YOU negotiated today. It's inadmissable and irrelevant. You just went home when the court lifted or cancelled the restraining order.

(Addtionally, if the order gets lifted at a hearing be sure to advise your attorney NOT to voluntarily stay out of your home...she just may do this, WW's attorney may ask for it, while you guys "negotiate"...advise your council that that is unacceptable. Either you are RESTRAINED or you are NOT. Period. If WW's attorney asks the court to keep the order in place for just another week or two because you two are currently in negotiations or settlement discussions your attorney must object...they can't use the fact you went to negotiate against you.)

I understand your attorney's thinking completely. It's likely how I "would have" advised you before MB. Just go through the motions, trust the system...it's fair, it will all work out. But it is not fair. You already have seen "fairness" haven't you. You may even lose the Restraining Order hearing, is that fair...no.

Further, by NOT going home you are indicating you are OK with WW being with daughter, that you think DD is safe and secure with her, that she is NOT being harmed and essentially that your wife is currently a fit and able parent. She is not. Do you know how many WS's have car accidents during their affairs? Tons. My beloved wife totalled her car and got 3 traffic tickets within 3 months after not having a single ticket since her teenage years. Your wife's brain is OVERWHELMED with thoughts, emotions, strategies and OM. Your DD is not her priority, it's all about saving face, selfishness and maintaining her addiction. Your daughter is in a dangerous place right now and you must tell your lawyer that you respect her advice but that you HAVE to go home for your daughters sake immediately upon having such right. Work out the minimal consequences later...but, get home.

Mediators and judges are people. What person would deny you or hold against you the mere fact that when allowed...you went home? I surmise it's whats expected of you and they may consider you a fool for doing otherwise. It's your bed. It's your refrigerator, etc. Use your key and go home. BTW, if she changed the locks, break a window and enter anyway..it's your house. I'd prefer it if you could sneak in without breaking anything and merely unlocking the door. That way you just say it was unlocked and avoiding the term "breaking in" being used against you. But, it's still your home. Your name is on the deed. You can't be held accountable for breaking into your own home.

Again, if wife calls the cops and has you removed unjustifiably again...we/you can't control that. I don't need to tell you to avoid any fighting or arguing and giving her any justification for calling the cops on you. If she does it anyway, it only makes HER look worse in the long run. You control you and do EVERYTHING within your legal right to protect your daughter.

Instead of asking your lawyer whether you should or not, try asking when you are free to go home legally. Ultimately, it's your life and she works for you.

Please sleep on it. I'd also love to hear Brit/Brat's, MM's, UVA's and anyone else's take on this. I very much believe I am right, but I don't want ALL the responsibility. This is my take on things but I am certainly not delusional enough to fail to conceive of being mistaken. Some of this stuff IS a crapshoot and all options can backfire. I just think you're better off home.

Mr. W

p.s.- sorry, please understand that my passion is really heartfelt concern for you and your family. This weekend you really need to re-read your thread from the beginning. You may be in a better state of mind to take in some of the information you may have glossed over originally. You may also see how far your thinking has processed. There are likely many nuggets of information which you can apply as I feel somethings are being repeated to you often.

then ...



It seems by the above recent comments by your wife and her recent demands to sign HER 50/50 deal, she is trying to find reasons for NOT letting you back into your home.

Follow Mr. Wondering's advice. Don't allow your wife to bulldoze you again.

You know and I know this facilitator is a big old waste of time and money. She just ain't gonna agree. Unless you think 50-50 is reasonable it just is not gonna happen. However, because you've undertaken it you must appear to be enthusiastically involved. Your postion is that you've done 90% of the parenting and want 90% of the custody. End this ruse as soon as you can. Thank the facilitator for her valuable time and move on. The sooner you get WW in depositions or otherwise "on the record" the better off you will be.

Tomorrow, you should not come in with any documentation and/or journals cause this "negotiation" is NOT binding. "Exposing truths" to the facilitator in the presence of you wife only lets them practice their case and testimony and prepare for the upcoming REAL battle. You must win the "binding" mediation portion of this fight and for NOW, keep WW as unsuspecting of your abilities, legal arguments and rights as possible. Let her feel she's got you beat...the more overconfident she is the better.

I propose you limit your position to ONLY the following argument:

"My overwhelming preference is to remain married and reconcile with my wife that I love, however, reconciliation aside my position is that I am for all intention purposes a stay at home father, I have been the primary parent of DD for going on 3 years now and feel strongly that I should remain DD's primary caregiver. I think every other weekend, alternating one or two nights a week and alternating holidays is being WAY more than reasonable. Gosh, that's easily twice the amount of time per month that WW has spent with daughter in the last 12 months"

Again, NO...I need to protect daughter, infidelity is damaging to kids, WW is unfit. WW's believes the affair is irrelevant to custody. You can't educate her but you can catch her off guard later and she (and her attorney) will not be sufficiently prepared for the actual fight when you actually agrue such "on the record".

Peace, GF...I need a break.

Mr. W

Don't forget to tell your attorney about the keylogger accusation and let her know you DID NOT do it. That way when the accusation comes out in court (and I'm guessing WW might) your attorney won't have to pause to look at YOU to see if it's true before vehemently objecting to an unsubstantiated fact. Your attorney needs to know what you have and have not done. Where you obtained your information. She needs full disclosure to avoid being caught off-guard in open court.

On the other hand, I'm hedging my bets by indicating that she may have been bluffing about the keylogger to see if you'd admit it. She is curious about how you obtained your information which is a good indication that OM's xGF is keeping her mouth shut.

W

GF:

You talked 2 her, man! You need 2 jiggle that handle, remember? ...unless you are a major holder of Permaflush stock!

It does seem peculiar that your WW is so intent on having these discussions with you, though. Sounds like she's about 2 lose her grip 2 me. But she might accomplish a lot before she does, so be wary of what the legal experts here might have 2 suggest.

Also, though I don't think there's necessarily more than a small chance that she might abandon you and your DD 2 go live with the goof in VA, it's not zero either.

Sometime, look up old threads from about 3.5 years back by Happiness_Within (I remember being jealous of him because his member number was 22222!). His W had an A with a fellow online game goof in Michigan (oddly, I believe he lived in WA, 2), threatened 2 take their 2 sons with her there, but ended up abandoning them anyway in the end. She pretty much fell apart like your WW is doing now, just before it all happened, and yet she was SURE the courts would decide in her favor.

I think he's remarried now.

-ol' 2long

GF...

Just want to add this...Mr. W is a VERY cool headed guy, he has honestly NEVER in his entire life even yelled...no kidding, the man has no temper, AT ALL!!! He would not advise you because of anger or flying off the handle, it just wouldn't happen...I have rarely seen him feel as passionately about any situation as he does about your current one...that speaks VOLUMES to me...I know that you don't really know us, so take it however you choose...I just thought you should know...

Mrs. W

P.S. I most definitely agree with his position, btw...as soon as you are legally allowed, go home GF...

ain't she cool. Gotta love that gal.

W

You both Rawk!

Ok, well DD called <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. WW picked up the phone after and I said "I think we should talk tomorrow with the mediator."

WW: Just let me say this, and I don't need a response from you.

me: uhh huh.

WW: I will agree to living in the house together tomorrow, but I am going to ask that I be given the bedroom with the lock, just for a week or two, then I'll move out if you want, I just want that room until I feel secure, plus it's where the big closet is and all my close won't fit in the closet in the spare bedroom. You don't need to answer now, I just wanted to tell you what I'm going to ask for so you can have time to think about it since we only have an hour with the mediator.

me: Ok, thanks for letting me know. We'll talk it over tomorrow with the mediator.

WW: then when I move into the spare bedroom, we'll just need to move the big TV (we have a 72" TV, we are in the middle of turning that room into a theater) downstairs, move the small TV (relative...it's 42 inches!) and just put a small bed in there for me...I don't need a big one.

me: Ok, sounds like you have a plan. Lets talk about it tomorrow with the mediator.

WW: now about the issue you have the biggest problem with. OM is a part of my life, and will be a part of my life and unless I am found unfit and you are given sole custody, when DD is with me I get to act as the parent and determine who DD is allowed to be around. For now I am respecting your wishes that they not be introduced, but that can't last forever.

me: That is all negotiable. We'll discuss that with the mediator when it's time. Goodnight.

I think I did pretty good.

As far as the PO is concerned, this is how it works. Everyone is supposed to be there at 1pm. The police are there to "keep the peace". The "abused" are brought in at 1:15, and then the "accused" are brought in at 1:30, and the hearing starts.

If the "abused" is not there, the PO is automatically canceled. Since the hearing is at 1:30, and our meeting with the mediator is at 1:30 it's going to be really hard for her to keep the PO, and be at the mediator at the same time! My lawyer has emailed WW's lawyer and is asking for confermation that no one will be at the court house tomorrow.

So that's the latest and greatest.

Wow more posts just while I was typing that!

No kidding you guys are awesome!!!! I don't know how I would be doing right now if it wasn't for the Wonderings, and everyone on MB, for that fact.

Thank you all. I really do take all of your advice and try to apply it to my situation as much as possible.

GF:

I think you did great until this point:

"WW: Just let me say this, and I don't need a response from you."

Here's what I would have said:

"GF: That's good. [click]"

But you're doing better!

-ol' 2long