Longhorn, thank you so much for researching this for me. Have I mentioned how wonderful everyone here is? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good job during the mediation.

WAT

Look up "Wire tap law". It will vary by state. Also, depending which circuit court you get will determine the view of the judge as it relates to recording phone conversations in the marital home.

From what I remember reading, if you're in PUBLIC, i.e. a bar, and I can sit next to you and hear your conversation, technically, I could record it. It'll get argued over in court.

In the home is another matter. Expectation of privacy will be a big issue on admissability. And no recording of your own phone conversations, even if the state has a "one party" consent to recording phone calls. You can get in trouble.

Then we address if the recording device is in plain sight at the time of the recording. That will go on to say "... if a reasonable person would consider the device to be in plain sight, etc..."

Definately get the advice of an attorney as to what is admissable in your state and what can get you prosecuted.

Good luck. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So, the next step is to get good at plan A right? Anyone have any suggestions for a "plan of attack" for me?

Any advice is welcome!

Thanks

GF...

Have you looked at the EN questionaire here? You'll have to guess at hers...but it's a start...do all that you can in meeting those top EN's...I'm gonna guess that one of hers is admiration...hmmm? No showing neediness or clinginess...a fine line, I know...

Remember that part of Plan A (A HUGE PART) is busting up this affair...I'm of the opinion that you need to get to work on exposing on OM's side of the fence...I know that he seemingly digs your wife right now, but the fact remains that he is single...not to mention lives cross country...and Lord only knows what lies she has fed him about you, the state of marriage, her financial status, her moving status, etc...stiring up some trouble in his world *may* make him see your WW as more trouble that she's worth and get him to drop her like a hot rock...

Mrs. W

Well, there is a bunch of drama over there now with the whole ex-gf issue.

Yes, I'm sure WW has fed OM all kinds of lies about me, but what can I do about that? He's not going to believe anything I say, even if it is the truth.

Also, I thought we were supposed to let the affair die it's natural death. That seems to be the opposite of busting it up.


WW is leaving to Virginia tomorrow for 6 days. I was actually thinking of asking WW to just not go. I'm sure she'll say she's going and that's it, but do you think it would be ok to ask? Or would it be too big of an LB when things are so fragile right now?

***WW is leaving to Virginia tomorrow for 6 days. I was actually thinking of asking WW to just not go. I'm sure she'll say she's going and that's it, but do you think it would be ok to ask? Or would it be too big of an LB when things are so fragile right now?***

GF - one day you are going to go back and read the above paragraph and wonder what on earth you were thinking.

This is where, IMHO, Plan A just goes waaaaaaay too far.

"My wife is leaving to go spend six days with her boyfriend. But maybe I shouldn't ask her not to go because she might get mad at me if I do."

C'mon, dude . . . this is why she does not have an ounce of respect for you. You are terrified of her and she knows it. In fact, both she and OM are COUNTING on it.

You don't have to be mean about it, but should a man say to his wife, "Your family does not want you to leave this week to go spend six days with your boyfriend. Your family wants you to stay here with us" -- ?

Are you kidding???

Of course you should tell her. And when she gets nasty and refuses - which she will - just say "Okay," and write it in your journal that you asked her to stay with her husband and family and she blew that off in favor of a week with her boyfriend.

JMHO, of course.
Mulan

Thanks Mulan.

It's not that I'm terrified of WW anymore, she was trying to intimidate me all last night with no luck.

It's simply the fact that I'm new to plan A, and I want to make sure I'm not making a mistake by asking her to stay.

ditto Mulan

Make you views known.

Set this boundary.

Make sure she knows you disapprove and that you feel it is detrimental to your daughter, to the marriage, to you, and to her.

WAT

GF,

Plan A is being the best you can be while not lovebusting your WS. You meet needs where you can so when the affair dies its natural death, you've left a light path back to you [marriage] as a safe place. It also includes exposure which can assist in busting up the illicit relationship.

Please read Distressed's Notable Post Regarding Plan A below:

[color:"blue"]I may be opening up a can of worms, but I read so many posts from people struggling with the implementation of Plan A that I thought I'd open up a philosophical discussion. Before expressing my opinions, I need to be clear that I myself did do Plan A for about 18 months in total. So when I'm critical, accept that I'm criticizing my own behavior in the hopes that others can learn. Here goes.

I am a great believer in the Harley methodology and it helped me work through a horrible situation. However, I am convinced that there is no greater misunderstanding and misapplication of techniques than in the betrayed's use of Plan A. FAR, FAR too many betrayed's seem to believe that if they stop love busting, go to great efforts to meet the wayward's needs (while the affair continues), and don't bring up OR talks or any issues, their spouses will eventually come back. While the spouses sometimes do come back during Plan A, it is my strong belief that their coming back is much more related to the natural death of their affairs than any action the betrayed is taking.

Plan A serves one narrowly defined purpose only. Its purpose is for the betrayed spouse to demonstrate for the wayward spouse the behavior he/she is capable of should the wayward ever decide to return to the marriage. That's it. It does not and cannot be used to: 1) win the spouse back from the OP, 2) recreate love from the wayward while the affair continues by meeting emotional needs, 3) unconditionally demonstrate love and self-sacrifice from the betrayed, or 4) create guilt within the wayward.

While the positive aspects of Plan A are useful, they come with a very high negative cost if it goes on too long. The backlash to the betrayed's self-esteem grows over time as disrespectful behavior from the wayward is not only tolerated, but often rewarded. The betrayed forgets what it's like to respect him/herself, and just accepts whatever crumbs the wayward offers. Worse still, the betrayed remains so engrossed in the effort to meet the emotional needs of the wayward, that they're not focusing on developing a separate life. This doesn't always happen, but it happens far more often than it should.

I believe the Harley's are frequently misunderstood about Plan A. Their intent is for a SHORT Plan A, just to demonstrate the changes. Normally, they recommend going to Plan B at separation or after just a few months of Plan A. Plan B is almost always necessary according to the Harley's. Their advice is clear, but many people do not apply it as advised. Plan A goes way too far.

Unfortunately, it's best to accept that once someone decides to leave, whether they choose to come back is completely out of the control of the betrayed. The primary influences on the wayward's behavior are some combination of the state of the affair and the character of the wayward, not the actions of the betrayed. That's why Harley says go to Plan B and stay there. It's basically designed to allow a maximum waiting period for the affair to end.[/color]

You've got to be kidding? She's going to VA after she took all your GI money out of your account? I'd be cancelling her credit cards etc.

Ridiculous.

This is all so confusing! I don't want to LB, but I do want to bust up the A, and don't want to be a doormat.

I do want to show WW that I still am a good husband and father, and can be an even better one; but I don't want to look "clingy" or "desparate".

Does anyone have any advice or suggestions for developing a good plan of attack?

CW:

Yea, off to VA she goes.

No need to cancel the credit cards. They are all so maxed she can't use them. Besides they are hers, I was always the secondary user. After I filed the LS paperwork, all new debt she incurs is all hers anyway.

GF:

This is a no-brainer. Mulan is right. Protest (kindly, firmly). Ask her not 2 go. And document her going for fu2re reference (for custody purposes).

You can't tell her what 2 do, because you can't control her. You CAN (and should) tell her what you will accept, though, what you consider proper behavior within a marriage and a family.

Then be a good dad while she's gone, and enjoy the quiet.

-ol' 2long

Where exactly in Virginia? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

WAT
---------------
Born and raised in the Old Dominion

Wish I knew...maybe this is how the conversation will work out:

"WW, will you please stay home with your family?"

ww: no, we're not going to be a family anymore.

me: I'm sorry you feel that way; will you at least tell me where in VA you are going to be, in case something happens?


you never know...heck maybe I'll get his birthday too!

is she driving her car to VA?

can we all say in unison

GPS

No Pep...not from the State of Washington. She's flying. GPS the luggage???. Whats the use.

We are pretty certain we got the guys name, address, home number, work number and relatives home numbers. Thus the question becomes. When does he expose on OM's side of the country? While WW is there, before she arrives on the plane or while she's flying home. I tend to think you do as much exposure as you can while she is in the air flying across the country. Make the visit a series of fires. However, during her visit WW can build up OM to resist the urge to seek other easier women and overcome any apprehension he may have being involved with a married woman. It may be best if they were not together upon exposure so they can't bond over it. In that case, GF can get his plan together over the 6 days and expose him to his friends, family and workplace whilst wife is in her 14 hour total time journey back to Washington.

anyway...something to think about.

Mr. Wondering

I recommend something more like this:

"Dear, I just want you to know that as your husband I disapprove with your plans to go visit OM. Doing so is further destructive to our marriage and is harmful to all concerned - especially our daughter."

No "please don't go."

Of course, she'll reply with some blather that "the marriage is already over" and "daughter will be better off with happy parents that aren't married vs unhappy parents that are" blah blah blah.

Don't argue with her. Just state your case and then back off. No reasonable person would see her point of view.

WAT

Maybe I'm way off base here, and if so, I would hope that others would chime in and say so but, GF, you have the name of the company that OM works for...the website, as I recall, had some pretty straight forward stuff on it about ethics or, character and fitness, if you will...The website had the email addresses of, at least one, whose job was internal regarding these standards...I *think* I remember your saying that WW and OM even had contact through work, based on their respective jobs is that right? If all this is so, why aren't you exposing this affair at his office? Why not make some waves on his side of the world before your WW goes traipsing off to her sordid rendezvous?

And no, it is not a lovebuster for you to state your boundaries...ie "It is unacceptable to me for you, my wife, my DD's mother, to go galivanting cross country to meet up with your paramour for a nasty, sleazy, dirty, lust-filled tryst." That is just stating the facts, after all... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Is she flying or driving? If she's driving, you could just stick a GPS transponder on her car.

Is her cell phone GPS enabled? You might be able to track her this way.

Do you have access to her credit card statements? I think you mentioned that she'd been to VA before...if so she might have bought stuff and put it on the charge card. That would at least give you a city.


edit: hmmm looks like I was late to the GPS parade.