Ok, I have a big update to make...but it's late and I'm tired, so here's the jist of it.

WW is willing to give me the house, assume her fair share of the debt, and sign off on my being primary residential custodian.

Her one caveat though...She has full access and decision making rights to DD. Hence we need to agree when she sees DD, and I won't have a piece of paper that I can use to restrict her to the 1st and 3rd weekends of the month.

I'm very much considering this. First, it's pretty much everything I want short of us fixing our marriage. Secondly, I can continue to plan A, since she plans on getting a place close by. But I'll have the freedom and flexibility to start plan B when I want, without having to work out the logistics of a living situation and custody.

But it also means that we are going to be moving forward with a D. But if my plan A/B work, we can always re-marry.

Thoughts?

If I accept this...am I taking the easy path, or is it a good idea?

Post deleted by Cherished

I agree with Cherished - to me her having decision making rights would mean she could decide to introduce DD to OM or have her stay with them both while WW is having visitation. Also, it would mean when she does have visitation, she could take her to VA. I would only agree to this if the agreement was in writing and also had in it, no introduction to OM until 1 year from the date the D is final and no people of opposite sex who are not related by blood or marriage may stay overnight under the same roof as DD.

Give this to your attorney to weed through...

Regards,

BB

Oo, Oooo - agree with Brit. Get your attorney involved before you agree with anything - BUT! - it sounds like she may be folding a bit. She's anxious and may be willing to bend to you. The fog does have its benefits! Bottom line - don't let this potential offer linger. If this is her anxiousness speaking and it gives you ample control of your DD's life, take advantage of it - it may not last.

WAT

I'm for it BUT, this all needs to be run through your attorney and not a mediator, then documented and signed - NO VERBALS.

Also, talk with SleeplessInSeattle for any gotchas since he's been through this. You might even consider calling SIS's attorney.

Your wife is very foggy, which is a good thing considering she's willing to give you physical custody. HOWEVER (you knew that was coming, right), I can imagine she has some hidden expectations/agenda such as Brit and D mentioned regarding how she will be able to tweak the agreement where OM is heavily involved in your DD's life in a big way in the near future. So make sure your agreement covers everything and is locked up tight. No loose ends and no open-ended land mines waiting to be stepped on.

Also, please tell me you're not taking on any of HER debt to cut this deal???

Jo

Document your discussion with her in an email. I, too, think the devil is in the details. I'm betting she wants to keep all "her" money and not pay child support and just make unilateral decisions about DD like "MMM, today I think I'll just pick up DD from school and take her shopping". You'll constantly be in a position of having to negotiate parenting time with her where you will likely have no desire to speak to her.

Good fences make good neighbors. A solid custody arrangement with firm guidelines will also make you both better co-parents of DD. Sure co-parents that get along and follow the rules MAY end up making their own rules but somebody has to be in charge of DD's best interests and that someone SHOULD be you. Maybe she'll end up agreeing to you being the primary parent and "in charge" with you just orally promising to be fair. She sounds that desparate that she may just agree to get it done...so try but NEGOTIATE IT IN WRITING.

I say document it because you can use her own words against her if and when you do ever get in a custody battle. She wants to settle up with you to make her addiction easier but she likely won't ever end up actually settling to reasonable terms (child support, you in charge, OM can't see her, etc) so use the situation to get her to incriminate herself.



Anyway, I quickly typed that out. Do not copy it and send it. Hash it out. I'm sure Brit and maybe UVA and others have some comments. My primary intent is to document that your wife AGREES that you should get "primary custody" and the custodial home and most of the rest is just distraction. I am also trying to make certain to indicate you are FOCUSED on merely the best interests of your DD and nothing else. Nothing bad about OM (unless you want to throw in an off the cuff remark indicating you wish to discuss or are concerned about OM's violent tendencies but only as such relates to concern for your daughters safety (I added it)). I also think you should send this to her while you are both in the house. If she sends a copy off to OM or her attorney they may deny it all or otherwise refute the email properly AND in writing. In the house communication can be followed up with an "in the house" argument or conversation but the documentation will not be changed and if she fails to respond in writing it will look like she acquiesced in the terms and characterization of your prior conversation.

You see when you introduce it into evidence no one will believe that she didn't agree that your the better parent right now because what mother would NOT respond, in writing, harshly to the above email if it were not true? Doesn't matter what she says she said later she can't deny the conversation cause it's documented and she won't deny it now because it's true.

Further, after your in-house argument/discussion regarding your email you follow up with another one documenting favorably your characterization of that argument/discussion. Having this stuff in writing using YOUR viewpoint is critical cause it will ALL likely be denied later if you end up having to go to court.

BTW, your daughter is 5. You NEED child support. You have 13 more years of raising this child so every $1,000/month you get ends up saving you $156,000 in the long run. These are big numbers and your WW MAY use your fear of losing custody to hardball you into accepting WAY less than you AND DD would otherwise be entitled to. Prepare for the big fight and don't put much stock in "settling" with her. If it happens great but be fully prepared for the fight.

Mr. Wondering

p.p.s.- If these negotiations go nowhere from here then just drop them. You do marriage, not divorce. If and when she brings it up again you simply ask are your willing to meet my terms (Full custody, CC, debts, house and OM no contact with DD), if not, lets leave it to the attorneys. Do not cave into her.

Oh gosh yes, don't forget child support.

........unless the thought of HER paying child support to GF could be a deal breaker.

Hard to predict where the sweet spot is where she'll no longer be willing to bargain away primary custody. Time and control may be WAY more important to GF than $$. I know it would be for me.

JMHO

GF - is she apt to read this stuff?

WAT

Of course I don't know GF's finances, but I suspect he may need the child support to meet his debts incl. his house payment.

Although, a creative alternative to not getting CS but meeting his mortgage could be to bring on a roomate to share the mortgage pmt. That way he does not lose his home.

Ok, allow me to elaborate more now that I'm rested.

Her financial proposal is that we refinance the 2nd mortgage to use the equity in the home to reduce/eliminate the CC debt. She will take her share (to be worked out in the agreement...probably around 2/3rds) of that payment, and pay me child support. Or take more of the debt payment and pay less child support. (I'm going to push for the child support). We will continue on with the joint payment of the mortgage until I am in the financial position to assume the primary mortgage, and all related utility bills, along with supporting DD without help from WW, and she needs her credit to be repaired to the point where she can get her own loan to assume the new 2nd mortgage. The financial situations will be re-evaluated every 6 months or a year...a detail that needs to be worked out.

As far as custody. In her proposal we will have joint custody, with me being the primary residential custodian. Meaning, on a day-to-day basis, DD lives with me. But she wants to be able to call me up and say I want to take DD to the mall and to go see a movie. She doesn't want to ask permission, she wants to be able to be adults and deal with scheduling conflicts when they arise. I told her that if there is no real boundary set, we are going to fight about it, and it's going to get ugly. She said that we should at least try it, and if it doesn't work, then re-work the agreeement through the lawyers.

As far as OM. She came clean and told me the same plan that she talked with him over the phone about. She wants to take DD out to VA next month, while his cousin and her kids are there, so DD will have the ability to choose between playing with the kids and hanging out with the adults. WW sees it as not throughing OM right into her life, like if they were to go on a vacation together or something. I told her that I'm not comfortable with the idea, and IF I were to agree to it, I would expect her and DD to stay in a hotel, and for OM to never be at the hotel. Along with other stipulations that I may see fit.

She also told me that OM wants to sit down with me and talk things out, so I can see that he really is a good guy, not just what my limited view of his character is. I told her there is no real point. He's not going to listen to anything I have to say, you've filled him with so many lies about me, and he's "in love" with you, so anything I have to say is going to be like water off a ducks back.

She said she would agree to stipulations placed on DD's contact with OM. Example she gave was:

1. After introduction, no contact for the first three months after WW moves out.
2. After the three months, an afternoon together when he comes out to visit.
3. Progressively more contact as time passes.

Anyway, back to the proposal. All of this will be worked out with one or both of our lawyers. It would all be in writing. And I also think that I would take the documents to another lawyer to make sure there are no loop holes that WW could later exploit.

This proposal is also not set in stone...we will be negotiating, but it's likely not to change much because she made it clear that she's not going to budge much from the 50/50 thing much, and doesn't agree with me that I am currently the better parent.

GF -

I have not posted to your thread before, but I have been following it, and think you are doing an excellent job following the advice you've been getting.

The following caught my eye, and I just had to reply:


Wow. Wow. OM wants to sit down and talk things out? That has to be one of the most insane things I have ever heard...

What's there to talk out? He's trying to steal your wife, and is playing an active and willing role in destroying your family and putting your DD at risk. There is no way any rational person can put a positive spin on that.

Sheesh. By definition, a man-to-man talk requires two men, and in that conversation I only see one - you.

Keep up the good fight. You have shown yourself to be very strong.

No contact with OM until you are no longer married. Period. This sends the wrong message to your DD. It says you can be married and play like you are not married.

Remember, GF. The audience you need to worry about is NOT your wife! It is your daughter.

You are already in a position of strength. Do not bargain away issues where you allow your daughter to be caught up in immoral bahvior. Being with another man other than her Daddy is immoral behavior by your wife. Make sure all concerned know that the only way this will change is to stop the immoral behavior!

Dont enable sin!

In His arms.

She's maneuvering you into an 'amicable' divorce. If that's what you want too, then of course... it's entirely your call.

She's going to be a thorn in your side indefinitely though if you don't take steps to prevent her interference in your daily life. I think if I were in your shoes, and I had to go to all the trouble and expense of divorcing my spouse.... I wouldn't want them 'up my butt' all the time afterwards.

As parents, there will always be a certain amount of contact that you'll have to tolerate. That's a given. But if it all goes to pot, and the divorce proceeds... are you really going to want this much daily involvement with your XW?

I echo what BB said. I was trying to maintain and not say anything, but forget it.

The OM is a sleazeball and preditor. Anyone that stays in another man's home for the sole purpose of boinking his wife is pure SLIME.

You and he have nothing to discuss. He is not worthy to lick your shoe heels.

LadyJane has a good point. If you want a divorce, then talk divorce with her. If you want the marriage, then you only talk marriage. If she wants to talk divorce...she can talk to your divorce expert...your attorney.

Stay on mission!

In His arms.

But it would be nice to make him do it!!

Oooppsss. Not very 'loving" of me!

In His arms.

Heck MM, I didn't even bring up when OM and GF's WW were talking on the phone in front of GF and when GF asked his wife to please take it elsewhere they both started laughing at him, GF could hear OM laughing over the phone.

THAT WAS EVIL!

And now OM wants to talk with GF to get things amicable???? Yeah right, thats gonna happen.

Hey, I'll talk to him for ya, GF. He only lives a few miles away. We can have a "chat." Whaddya think?

I am seriously thinking about going active in some sort of nation-wide OP busting organization. Use all sorts of ways to mess with them, to make their life a living he!!. That way, the BS doesnt have to get involved and can continue with their Plan Aing. In the meantime, the OP will find out how much a bother this adultery is.

In His arms.

Judging by the amount of people that find thier way way to this board...that could be a very well used service!

Good Father,

You going to respond to the above?