Post deleted by

Post deleted

I'm so sorry you are hurting. The best thing you can do is to take care of yourself. He is on the fence and being a cakeman.

Have you exposed the affair to family and friends?

As long as one person remains fighting for a marriage it remains savable. It may not be easy...long term affairs are often tough nuts to crack but KNOW that his relationship with SIL (yuck!) will never last forever. Affairs usually only last about 2 years and he's already way down that path. Her desparate calls to you a few weeks ago are a good indication that things are not all rosey in fantasyland. You can bust up this affair and save your marriage. Plan A is your course of action for the time being...read up on it on the main site and get the Harley books if you can (or see if your library has them or go to Borders and spend a few hours reading it there).

It is interesting that he left after reading your journal. IMO, it is a demonstration of his conflicted feelings. I believe he is perhaps trying to put a final nail in your relationship out of misguided concern and care for your feelings. Perhaps he sees you as SOOOOOOO hurt that you could never forgive him, never get over the pain, and never recover your marriage. It's just easier and less painful for all involved to just move on. By fighting for your marriage you will very soon send him the message that AT LEAST YOU disagree with his assesment. He's foggy anyway, for awhile you will be the only sane rational person in the relationship. Fight to pull him out of this mess he has created for himself and your family.

Do not discuss divorce or a separation with him. You indicate that you only do marriage and recovery, lawyers handle divorce and you won't discuss it. If he files you respond and make outrageous demands via your attorney. It might not be bad to at least consult with one or two to have one you really like ready in case he does file. No quickid divorce, you draw it out and put pressure on the affair.

You will make, one way or another, you will make it.

Good Luck,
Mr. Wondering

/

Laura,

MrWondering has given you excellent advice. Listen and follow his suggestions.

If I may add one more thing, please break up your posts into nice short paragraphs. Your posts will be read by three times as many people and your feedback will soar. Go back to your original posts, hit the edit icon and reformat your text.

Best of luck.

Have you exposed to the OW's parents and siblings?

Could you re-expose to any friends in your old town?

Can you expose him at his workplace?

Read up here on exposure and how it is to be done. Then post your plan for consideration herein.

It is likely they have all been lead to believe that you and he were separated and divorcing. By shining a light of truth you put pressure on the affair, an affair that is already showing signs of weakness (her desparate call to you).

Plan A'ing over such distance will be difficult. You must attempt to reestablish communication with him. If he files (it ain't over if he does), then you will necessarily have to communicate. But he needs to know you are still fighting for your marriage and that you beleive restoration is possible. Don't rush off half-cocked, if you can email him post your letter here for a critique. There are lots of BS's here that have been where you are and can assist you with saying just the right thing.

There are also threads here about exposing the affair to your children. There are sensitive and proper ways dicussed in detail on this board. Perhaps someone will link in a really good one. Your son is 15 and your daughter 19 so they are not that immature. They need to know the truth about their lives just as much as you did. Just like you they need to know they are not crazy as the adults just gloss over the issues. It is a family problem. I have seen one of the best ways of explaining the wrongness of affairs is by simple posing the question to the children "when is it ever right to have an affair". They will get that and no matter what rationalizations, justifications and blame are thrown around they will understand the root of the problem.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

Hi Laura,

First....here's a ((((((((((laura)))))))))))....we can all use a hug!! Welcome to MB...you've found and excellent place to fight this affair.

Okie dokie....now let's talk about battling this affair. I see far more hope in this situation than meets the eye. Your husband is not ready to leave you....and the OW is unstable and very likely to be her worst enemy....so let's help her okay?

Let's talk about Plan A. What do you know about it? Have you "read up"? Bought "Surviving an Affair"? You do that...okay?

Plan A has several parts that should be done simultaneously....but let's talk first about the "hard" parts....confrontation and exposure.

I'd like you to draft a couple of letters. The first one is for the OW.

Dear X,

Enclosed are pictures of the nieces and newphews whose life you are selfishly altering in the most destructive way possible....taking their father. I am so sorry about the loss of your husband....but pursuing my husband will never make up for your loss....it will only leave you emptier than you already are. Make ________'s death count for something....he must be crying to look down and see the destruction that you have wrought. I have great sympathy for you, but what you are doing is destroying many lives....not just yours. Please reconsider your choices.

laura


And now....a letter to his friends in the "old" community:

Dear Friends,

It's a hard path to help a friend do the right thing in his life. I know many of you disapprove of his affair with X, but are afraid to challenge his choice or help him make ethical decisions because you are afraid you'll lose him. I understand that....I don't want to lose him either...neither do the children. But real friends don't let friends self destruct. His brother's wife will destroy him in the same way she destroyed his brother. I love X.....and my children need their father. Please be strong, and do what you can to help guide your friend back to his honorable life.

Your children: It's time to expose to your older children and let your husband face the music. If there are no consequences....there is no change. Your children are not babies....they know the truth already....be honest with them so they can come to you with their questions and put pressure on the affair as they are entitled to.

The other parts of Plan A:

Do your best not to love bust....read about those....and meet the needs he will allow you to, and that you feel comfortable meeting. But the reality....is that you have ALREADY allowed him to fence sit too long! You must move to Plan B relatively quickly after a very short Plan A to leave a good impression....and you must NEVER, EVER, discuss divorce with him...unless that is what YOU want.

Most of what you have done so far is not going to help you at all!! Please please....call a promarriage counselor like the Harleys and get some guidance. Your fear of losing him is compromising your ability to fight this affair as fully and successfully as you should. Your husband has all the comforts of home....and all the excitement of a new affair. Stop enabling him.

I'll add more later....keep posting!

You can change you thread title by editing your initial post and changing the title therein. So if you want Plan A advice or Children exposure advice just edit the title to reflect that desire.

In my signature is a link to Pep's Carrot and Stick of Plan A, it is good.

Here is a list of Do's and Don'ts I kept in my wallet last spring. It was my cheat sheet for interactions with my now FWW.

THE DO'S AND DON'T OF PLAN A

Do's
1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over to yourself and sometime WS...I will make it, no matter the outcome..I will be OK
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond WS's comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way)
6. Expand your social relationships
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, tanning, hair, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....let WS judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends involved in recovery
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be WS's idea)
10. Tell WS continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

There are a few introductory threads pinned to the top of the Just Found Out board which can provide some of the concepts and I hope you've thoroughly read the main website (there is a lot to offer there free of charge and it sets out the basic concepts you need to discuss this stuff)

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

Post deleted

"Mr. Wonderful"...lol


You can't overtly educate a wayward spouse. There is just no logic to their addiction. They are too fogged out to understand and to addicted to OW to listen. Education feels like "control" to them and merely feeds the rationalization/justification cycle in their brains. WS want you to act crazy, give ultimatums, and love bust the crap out of them so they can continue to have fodder for the affair and rationalize their selfishness.

You can only control you. You kind of detach from the situation a bit (other than the stick of Plan A) and say to yourself..."I am still married to WH today and I am going to try to be the best wife I can be today, I'll let tomorrow take care of itself. I'll pray for the power to change what I can change and ability to accept that which I can not."

If he comes this weekend I have a file I can share with you that is perfect to just leave "laying around" for him to pick up and read (he seems to like to do that). He'll likely discard it as pointless or worthless. Don't fret...you are just trying to plant seeds. Don't hand it to him...he must find it, pick it up and read it himself. You are in charge of you....him, himself. Email me at the address listed below (my wife and I share the account so it is appropriate) and I'll send it to you.

Did you read the love buster material? You want to avoid love busting, try to meet as many emotional needs as he'll let you and you can and make deposits in his "love bank" (or at least not remove units). This is all a set up for Plan B if it gets to that. In Plan B you are withdrawing yourself from the equation to protect the little remaining love you have for WH at that time and to force OW to meet all his emotional needs alone (which is impossible for her to do forever). Hopefully, with the secrecy of the affair being crushed they will love bust the crap out of each other and the affair will end at some point. At that time you can begin "working" on the marriage.

Read the book Surviving an Affair first. In a few weeks read Love Must Be Tough. You'll get this stuff as you do it, continue posting and reading how others have done it.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

Post deleted

No LB's means No LB's...none.

don't discuss financials, lawyers discuss divorce you only discuss marriage and reconciliation. Your lawyer will clobber him. His earnings are his....Bhwaaaaaaaaaahaha. Laughable.

Act, Don't react. Be who you choose to be and don't let his behavior, conversation, anger, frustration, etc, effect how you behave. Don't allow him to push your buttons anymore. You don't have to be pushed into a corner nor do you have to fight your way out of some imaginary corner. If he raises his voice...you lower yours. If he yells, you whisper.

good luck,
Mr. Wondering

agree to nothing...

tell him that you do not want a divorce...

that you want to reconcile your differencesand if he does then you will use legal counsel to avoid any undo unfairness to you and the children

ARK^^

I will bump a plan thread with lots of good input on it..

ARK

Pardon me ... I feel almost rude asking this question ... but I have read and re-read this several times and there is something wrong here...

Is it possible the affair began before the suicide??? The mutual attraction was probably there long before "anything happened" ...

Do you know the reason BIL killed himself? Did he leave a note?

Gawd, I HATE asking this!!!!

The reason I ask ... if the A was going on before the suicide, your H may feel responsible for his brother's death .... and therefore responsible for the care of the widow.

Plus, what does CL Spouse mean?



.... this too is suspicious .... how "in love" was SIL with her H ~before~ his suicide?

something is just not right here.... can't put my finger on it ...

I believe "CL Spouse" is "common law spouse."

I am wondering the same things as you are, Pepperband, and in fact have taken it a step further . . . at least, from what you have posted.
Mulan

Post deleted

/

This is crap. WS's always threaten you that the next exposure will be your last. Exposure is your most powerful weapon to bust up the affair and HE KNOWS IT. As long as the affair continues YOU CAN NOT recover your marriage. Affairs thrive in secrecy. The more exposure the better. It needs to be done fully, one more time, in one full far reaching sweep, WITHOUT any forewarning. If you forewarn him, you forearm him to lay the groundwork necessary to paint you as an angry and bitter soon to be X wife who is just lieing. Don't worry about the outrage, your marriage can survive anger...it can not survive the ongoing, ever deepening secretive affair. I know you've done some, but time to do it all...soon.

About the boss. Next time you don't expose to the boss. You've already gone that route and seen what it got you. I'm not advising you do this right away but have you considered exposing to all the employees (or at least his department) maybe by email in the middle of the workday? He has likely lied to all of his co-workers about his affair and told them you and he are separated, you know about the affair, and don't care. Your exposure plan may include an exposure email to all of them indicating you are fighting for your marriage, etc. (as set out above) AND include that you've already met with the boss on such and such a date, advised him of the affair and asked him what he intended to do about it. Include that the boss merely teamed up with your husband and asked him to keep it on the down low. Make the boss look bad to his employees and he will only have your husband to take it out on...do it as nicely as possible and just lay out the facts. Not to be redundant; but, you kinda indicate that you are fighting to save your marriage and seeking their assistance to save your marriage and any help or pressure they can provide will be appreciated, HOWEVER, they don't need to involve Mr. Howie N. Ables, because you've already sought his assistance and this is what happened.

Again, has OW/SIL been exposed to her family?

Friends?

Lets get a plan together. Post it here. This needs to happen next week after your weekend together Plan A'ing him and attempting to attract him back to the marriage. Carrot and Stick. Your biggest STICK is exposure.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- try not to post responses and questions directly to me (or anyone in particular). Rather, direct them at the board in general. There are many, many other posters here, with valuable insight, who may read it and have something to say but don't want to interrupt "our" conversation. Also, it would be helpful if henceforth you'd attempt to break your posts into paragraphs (you could even edit your first post to do the same). It seems that some of the more "seasoned" posters here are sorta blind and have trouble reading unless it's broken up a bit not to mention Lady Clueless is almost always having difficulty reading on her defective monitor. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You're learning...just some friendly MB etiquette.