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I really would appreciate some thoughts on my thread..... I got an email from H's that has left me more confused then anything else. What is he getting at???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
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Why don't you post the email here so that the more experienced members can help you?
Me 40
H 46
Married 20 years
2 DD
1 DS
No affairs, but no SF since 11/05.
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canthurt..... I have had little action going on on my other thread, so I hoped to redirect people to my main thead by calling attention to my self! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But I'll post it here as well..... I know that I said that I wouldn't contact you for personal reasons, and that I have already broken that promise once. Now I am breaking it again. I know you have said that you don't want to see me or hear from me anymore, as you have made clear, but I think of you often and want to tell you how I feel. Of course from things I have said, that 'I don't in reality see us getting back together', and that I have been so insistent in my resolve in that way, I know that you have every reason not to want to see me in order to put this chapter of your life behind you. I know that my words and actions have been hurtful to you and that you have decided not to be subjected to this anymore; I know that I am confusing to you and I am sure much worse. Still, I have found that I have not been able to walk away from the feelings I have for you and, selfishly, I feel I must communicate these to you.
When I left in June, I could see only negative things about our relationship. Now, though I understand the logic behind which I formed those opinions, and remember the events that led up that event, those memories are much weaker than the positive things that I remember about you and the things I enjoyed about being with you. I find myself wanting to know what interesting rocks you have recently found. I want to see you talking with the cats. I want to see you with that intensity and frustration, pining away at the kitchen table over a pile of notes, staring into your computer, working on your latest academic project. I want to see that look of resolution on your face when you have overcome the problem, seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I would like to order take out Chinese with you and sit on the floor eating in front of the TV. I would like to see you sleeping again, because you seem so comfortable and secure when you sleep.
I think in a lot of ways you are really a mystery to me. You seem full of contradictions and sharp opposing forces. You are sensitive and strong and professional and have also debilitating weaknesses and depressions (as do I) . You have a strong sense of self hatred that you are more than willing to expose and an intense confidence that appears like a light in the darkness. You are creatively gifted and extremely private about it, as if it were some sort of blemish on your character or some carefully hidden spring that you privilege the world with a glimpse of from time to time. I don’t really understand you and have had a very difficult time communicating with you. I felt at times that you did not respect me and wanted to change my character in some specific way. I felt that at times you seemed to deliberately misrepresent my intentions and turn my words against me. Overall I was extremely frustrated with my seeming inability to communicate with you. I didn't see any way to approach that problem and felt that it was impossible to resolve. Maybe that is the case, though if the part of you that feels without words, and that part of me that dreams of beautiful things could be or could have been made substantial and concrete, maybe we could find a logic within which to communicate and express the good things with each other. Otherwise it seems that we were destined to have a painful yet in many ways beautiful and caring yet ultimately confusing and scarring relationship together. I suppose that time and history will resolve this matter, I just wonder if it will be a time and history in which we communicate, at least on some level, or one in which we silently carry it around and hope to work it out.
I am also very contradictory and know it. When we were apart I would think positively about being with you and often when we were together I would think negatively about us. I have been absolutely clear about not wanting to get back together and here I am writing this e-mail. It seems to some people as if I walked into and out of marriage without thinking enough about either decision. I have been mean to you and caring as well. I insist that I see things in a straight forward manner though I have been told, forever by my parents for example, that my actions and course in life seems anything but straightforward. Maybe it is the case that in the end we just cannot harmonize the contradictions we present to each other. Time spent together will be more negative than positive and the assessment I made in June will have been the correct one. You, then, will not be able to get what you want out of a relationship with me nor I with you.
I have found after withdrawing from classes and the university altogether this semester that I love to read more than any other activity, and spend the best hours of the day doing so. I just needed to get out of the rabbit-hole-tunnel-perspective that academia demands of a person. Choosing the material I study, I have found wonderful things to feed my mind and I have a greater sense of meaning now than I think I have ever had. I have been working part time all semester and for the last month and a half have let my interests guide me entirely, and I have found wonderful things, wonderful things in my mind to work with!
Could you respect a man without a career or any immediate desire to undertake one? I want to continue on spending my time as I have been, working enough to get by and reading at my leisure the books I want to read. Do you think that is absurd? Will you see me in order to see what feelings and thoughts come up, in order to create more information regarding us with which to help resolve things in one way or another? You know me fairly well and how temperamental and contradictory I can be. I have said and done things that have been very hurtful to you and of course I am at core the same person I have been in the past. Would you want to see me again knowing this, but also knowing that I would like to see if there is a possibility of us trying again? I have been vocally opposed to the idea of us getting back together and I know this has been more than hurtful. I understand if you don't want to respond to this now or indefinately. If not now perhaps after more time has passed and perhaps things can be approached anew. These are my thoughts and I realize that they may be incompatible with yours. I think you are a truly original and creative person and I think it would be wonderful if we could enjoy each others company in the way we imagined we would when we first met, or perhaps more maturely than that.
You don’t need to respond to this if you don’t like. Please think about what I have said. Let me know if you would like to see me again.
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white ~ I don't know about others, but those big long threads deter me.
I usually skip the threads that require me to go back for days and dozens of posts to figure out what is going on.
~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~
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Bamblerose...... I have been adviced before not to start new threads.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.... I know, I cannot go back and read days and days of stuff either...... So, to sum up, H left, did not want to work on us, has been dating, and finally in FEB I send him a note telling him I no longer wish to be in contact. I planed Aed till then, but then just sort of went to NC, not an official plan B (since I did not write a letter). H did not leave me for another woman...he started "exploring" his options in Nov and I just could not handle being turned into a friend anymore.....cause "I only want friendship with you" was his mantry since Aug! So NC since Feb 7th. I got 3 emails before that. The first was a response to my NC request, that same day. He was hurt, and asked me how could I want to punish him, while at the same time telling me in 4 different ways that he does not want to be back together. I did not respond. In the second he wanted to see me (just hang out cause he had nothing particular to say ~ this was on the 3rd of March). I responded by telling him that being in contact is hurtful to me and I wish him all the best. And in the last one he asked me if I would let him into my house to look for some papers (that had ZERO possibility of being here.) I said no. This was just 2 weeks ago. If you have any thoughts on this latest email I got (got it today)......I appreciate it! Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
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Daisy, Here w/b my type of reply. Dear WS, Received and read your long letter. Seems you are learning to read and write in length. Hope that is a good thing. You mentioned a few things: 1. You are confusing. I agree 2. You hurt me. I agree 3. You are frustrated. I agree. 4. You think you are straight forward but by your own actions others do not see you as such. I agree. 5. You are contridcitory. I agree. 6. You dwell on the positive and negative at the oddest times. I agree. You ask me to respect you. I have to think about that. Will get back to you later. Have a nice day. Your WIFE! Ok, that's my take. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Basically he traded one addiction for another. This is manifest by the fact he is still confused, frustrated and desparately trying to pull you into his web. He doesn't want his wife back....not yet.....he wants someone who will allow him t/b as he has chosen t/b and then blame them for his lack of success. Is he calling out to you? Yes, but what will he call you after he gets you where he wants you? Hm..... think hard b4 you commit. He needs to show more stability and a plan. JMHO, L.
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"When we were apart I would think positively about being with you and often when we were together I would think negatively about us."
So now he wants to get back together so he can start thinking negatively again?
I think the desire for reconciliation is there, but I didn't see anywhere in the email where he'd commit to putting any work into it. I'm seeing all the reasons why he wants you back, but I don't see a reason for you to want him unless you think you'd be happy with the person he's telling you he still is.
Me - BS
DDay 1 (Multiple affairs while overseas) - Feb 2003
DDay 2 (AdultFriendFinder Profile) - April 2007
Seeing a counselor. I think we have him stumped.
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Thank you for your replies..... I don't know anything about his money situation. The fact is that his bills are not huge at all. He has managed so far and worked 50 hours a week at one point to save money for tuition. Now, that he does not have that, his bills are not huge at all (his rent is 300). And I know he does not like credit cards, got rid of the one we had together, so I doubt he has any credit debt. He has always felt this pressure to get a carrier, from his brother, from his parents.......I went through the whole grads school process and I realized while there that it is not for everyone. I tried to explain that to H last year, but I think he saw me as putting him down, or thinking he was less intelligent or I don't know. I have always found that he has interesting things to say, and he is bright. But as I learned, being bright is not enough to get through grad school, you have to work really hard. If one does not want to do that (or rejects some other aspects about it) I can completely understand. My father took a janitor's job when we first moved to US as immigrants a while back. He was a manager back home with a BA, and without any English skills he took any job to support his family. I respected him, because he did what had to be done. Overtime, he was able to clime up and is an accountant..... I am realizing if H does not want to pursue any goal then I cannot force him and I cannot change him, and I just have to walk away. Action, I would love to see more action on his part. I certainly will not go back to the 'way we were' with him on some fence. And yes, I am wary that he may just begin to think negatively again. He has chronic depression and gets down a lot, and I don't want to be yet again solely blamed for everything...... Orchid, nice letter. I would like to think about this a little more. What do you think about sending him a very short email, telling him I got it, need to think about it, will get back to him. And then getting back to him maybe in a week. What are the drawbacks of doing it this way? Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
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I would not send anything that said you got it.. let him stew a little... what do YOU want whitedaisy my friend.. what do YOU want ?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> ark
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"When we were apart I would think positively about being with you and often when we were together I would think negatively about us." Typical fence-sitting, cake-eating WS Script, IMO... I think the desire for reconciliation is there, but I didn't see anywhere in the email where he'd commit to putting any work into it. That's why this is the negotiation stage. It's the door opening..a crack... It's your mission, Daisy..if you so choose to embark upon it..to inform him of his need to do the work WITH YOU... I'm seeing all the reasons why he wants you back, but I don't see a reason for you to want him unless you think you'd be happy with the person he's telling you he still is I think this is an important observation. I'm not sure your WH knows who he is.. However, what I've learned is, that I have to ACCEPT my H for who he is. It is not OK for me to want to change him into the person that I want him to be. I did that and it was DISRESPECTFUL and EMASCULATING. Steve H. asked me, basically: Why did you marry someone you don't like..or feel the need to change? It's so interesting. We fall in love with a person and then go about trying to make them different. What I'm saying is ....your H is basically who he is. He will change according to different life stages, etc. However, my 52 year old H is basically the same person that he was at age 19 when I met him..with the same likes and dislikes..with the same level of motivation..with the same work ethic... So, yes, here comes your decision. Do you want THIS MAN or not? Just like he asked you: "Can you RESPECT him?"
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Wow, quite a letter Daisy.
Your WH seems to have a lot of "deep thoughts" here
and has analyzed things a great deal, but doesn't seem
to ever say what he really wants from your or your M,
and if he's willing or able to make the changes that
would be necessary to build a real M together again.
Without knowing him, it's hard to know if he's just being
honest about how he feels and what he is willing to do,
or if this is "cover" for wanting to continue " as is"
without him needing to get his depression under control,
pursuing a living, or "stepping up" to life and his M
with you.
Only you know what you are willing to live with-
Is his "reading books as a career" while you provide
the finances okay with you ?
Is he going to contribute enough to the relationship
to be okay with you ?
Is he willing to do counseling for himself (depression
is usually considered manageable and shouldn't be a
continuous issue) and counseling to put your marriage
into better shape ?
I agree that I would want to see more action.
Maybe think on it for a little while and then decide
if/how you want to reply.
If you think you might be "interested", I'd definitely let
him know that you know of the A, because you need to know
if that's over now (and that there will be no more contact
with old girlfriends, etc)
Thinking of you (and thanks for your posts on my thread-
I just updated)
Slammed
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Daisy,
Wow! What a letter. For sure he can write long.
He is trying to be honest in his letter, but I do not see him saying anything about trying to improve himself in order to have a better M. He just wants you to accept him as is. Which, as Mimi pointed out, is what it is, you marry someone and you have to accept him/her for who he is. But in reality, he does not work and does not even have the desire to work - he is still living in a fantasy world. In my opinion, this is NOT the same as "accepting him as is". We grownups all have certain responsiblities and whether we like them or not, we have to take care of them. Working is one thing - how many of us TRULY look forward to working many hours each week? But that's something we need to do in order to pay bills.
He sounds a lot like my WH. In a way, this has put you in a tougher situation, as now it seems it is up to YOUR decision... Think it over, you do not need to respond right away.
Milk
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Ark.... What do I want.....hmmmmmm..... I want that stew to boil.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Seriously, I have not replied because I am not sure as yet what to say. I am just kind of processing his email and the comments I got here.......... Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
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Mimi, do you think he is still fence sitting??? I know he was for a long time....and I don't want to go back there! That's why this is the negotiation stage. It's the door opening..a crack...
It's your mission, Daisy..if you so choose to embark upon it..to inform him of his need to do the work WITH YOU... I agree, negotiation stage....how to go about it though...that is the hard part. I am not slamming the door in his face that is for sure. Opening just a crack......and I do want to let him know that he would have to work with me. I have been thinking a lot about one thing that he said. It is the part about wanting to continue to do what he is doing now. This is the part that he really needs to elaborate to me. Because, I do not believe it is ever possible to be with a person and be able to focus on your thing the same way as when you are alone. Because you are with someone else, you do end up being with the other person and living together means co-existing....so working together is essential......I need to know how exactly he immagines that we would be a team...... Last Dec. he told me that he was not ready to "stear a ship called 'us'.......the fact is that we would have to stear together! I need to hear what he things about that. You know S.H. did tell me that H is more of a person that is does when he feels....and that that is who he is.....and like you say mimi, I married him and I loved him, yet once we were together I wanted him to "change"....not very respectful. I was an immigrant and we lived from month to month till my parents could establish themselves.....and I realized then that I never wanted to live like that, if I had a choice! So, although I do not need a BMW, and I have just yesterday been told that I am not very "high maintnance"...I guess it is my upbringing....I do enjoy some things that may not be seen as the essentials.....and I do want to travel just a bit every now and then....... I know H quite well by now. He gets very excited about something new that he explores......and usually the fire burns out and off he goes persuing something new...... I know I would have to accept that part of him.......what I am trying to say right now though is that given that he has this track record of changing things....and starting things always with a lot of excitement....I feel as though I should approach this possible attempt at recovery very carefully.....he may just realize few months down the line that what he is doing is not what he wants again.....and that is when he gets depressed..... Honestly, he is living in one room of a basement and I do not want to live like that! I am thinking of a reply.....I may send him something on Monday or so...... Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
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Hey All! I am thinking about a reply to H......I figured I'll start working on it now and by Monday or so I'll have it ready..... Here is what I got now. H,
I am thinking about your email. There is a lot to process.
I don’t as yet have answers to your questions. I need more information.
You have for some time expressed no desire to work with me at our relationship. Your email leaves a lot unsaid and I do need to hear clearly what is your plan for us.
Daisy I am afraid he may not like the term "us"......yet, I refuse to go back into contact with him just so we could go back to him JUST thinking about us as a possibility WITHOUT any action what so ever.....do you think that is crazy? I am worried that I am missreading his email. Is he really saying that he wants to GIVE US ANOTHER TRY or is he just saying HE WANTS TO SEE ME AND SEE *IF* HE WANTS TO GIVE US ANOTHER TRY. These are two differnt things, and I am not too wild about the second.......but am I expecting too much from him? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Any thoughts.......two brains are better then one! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Daisy
Last edited by white_daisy; 04/01/06 09:40 PM.
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...Here is what I got now.
[quote]
H,
I am thinking about your email. There is a lot to process.
I don’t as yet have answers to your questions. I need more information.
You have for some time expressed no desire to work with me at our relationship. Your email leaves a lot unsaid and I do need to hear clearly what is your plan for us.
Daisy Remove the 'us'. Shorten it up a bit. Be more decisive and precise, something like: WS, I read your note. Thinking about it. Need more info. BS. This give him no more info than you read....'the note'. Not even letter status. If he has a brain, it will make him wonder and grind his teeth wondering what you need more info on. This may be his achilles heal.....let him stew in it for a while. U got time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Be cool. take care, L.
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Thanks Orchid.....
Should I send it tomorrow?
Daisy
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Whenever u r ready. It has to be right 4 u. However, the longer you wait the more antsy he may get. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Got Patience? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> L.
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Well, I have waited 11 months for his NOTE...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
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