Hrts - I have metioned changing churches to W and she doesn't want to so that. Part of it is that she downplays the whole thing with - says it been blown way out of proportion etc. - doesn't have feelings for him etc. - says we don't need to change churches.

We are also very involved in the church and it would be a big deal for us to leave. Bigger than for OM's family to leave.

She did give up the small group she was in with OM at church that started all this. She still complains about it, but she did give it up - which was a big deal.

You know, you are right about the moral compass thing - that's not my fault - thanks for pointing that out.

I am absolutley still considering telling OM's W. Just haven't decided for sure yet.

Thanks.

Hello 193296.

There's a lot I can relate with my husband.
No he's not blaming me or our marriage or our relationship.
He's not showing much remorse and not really trying to reassure me. He also believe a EA is not a A.

I feel the same way you do towards my H. I mean, he's very hard to live with. He's a taker and I am a giver, no problem before as he was a good father and a good husband... but what I most appreciated on him was his honesty his integrity, his dedication in working hard to provide for the family. He was such a proud man on our relationship. Now that he broke his values and is acting like it wasn't that bad, except for the fact that I found out... I just find it hard not to hate him so much as I hate him more often times everyday.

So I believe that out of 12 we had 10 good years of marriage... and we have the kids, and my parents divorced when I was 13, and that's the last thing I want for my girls... so we should work on rebuilding.

But I find it hard specially since I insisted with him that we needed to find the reason why he did... and after a few days of thinking he came out with "Well I really feel we should be better in life, we had our girls when we were too young and I blame them (the kids) for it..."

After this... I just keep wandering...

Anyway, am waiting for us to have a very loooong talk where am giving my last hope for the radical honesty on his part to came out.

Isn't there a way to expose to OM's wife? Even if anonymous? Eventually his wife would make him change church? Anyway, imo she deserve's to know and make her own choices?
Or at least they have a chance of working on their marriage?

I have no experience since I haven't exposed since there was no one to expose <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for reminding me on how bad a divorce is for kids... I really hope time will help.

Lost - Divorce is bad, but I can see how it happens. The way I feel right now, I'd rather be divorced. My kids can take it - I did. I guess that feeling gets too strong for some people and they just do it – regardless of the long term, permanent issues that it leads to.

Don't get me wrong, I am not going to rush out and do it, but that is how I feel right now.

Her lack of remorse and blaming me for it is taking its toll. That, and I really think she is still talking to him. I have heard calls between her and friends that definitely imply she is – not proof, but strong implication. The last one of those calls was Sunday, April 2. It was recent.

I am going to expose to OM’s W in a few days. Mainly because I don’t believe its over and I never will until I tell OM’s W. I am waiting a few days to try to gather a little more evidence. And because I am being a chicken. That could end my marriage, but today I am not sure I care. It could save it too, I guess.

At least it will allow me the satisfaction of (*&^%$# with the OM like he has *&^%$ with me. Not good motive, I admit, but it’s there.

I guess I need to remind myself of what I told you about divorce and do what I can to prevent it. I just can’t take the deception, lies, unfaithfulness etc. How can act like she loves me and then do this? And keep doing this? I also need to remind myself of what I said about time – surely it will help. It actually seems to be getting worse however.

Thanks.

19, please understand that this will not end your marriage. We have been through untold #s of exposures on this forum over the years, and what is more likely to end your marriage is THIS AFFAIR. Your marriage can recover from some temporary anger; it CANNOT recover from an ongoing affair and all the resultant wreckage. The affair is extremely damaging to the marriage, AS YOU CAN SEE, but exposure is THERAPEUTIC because it RUINS the affair.

Let's say your W is a crackhead and is killing herself with crack. You take the crack pipe away from her and she becomes furious.

Would you say that taking the crack away from her was a BAD THING just because her addicted, sick mind objected to the removal of the poison?

Of course you wouldn't. And when she sobers up and comes to her senses, she won't be angry anymore. When she withdraws from the drug, she will be grateful for her restored sanity.

ML - I don't disagree with you at all. I do think every situation is different, however, so no one really knows what will happen in a given situation.

So, I am concerned about it.

I don't think I have much choice. So I have to do it. I am going to wait a few days, however, as mentioned.

Please don't let me talk myself out of it. I am not a cowardly person at all - but I am being a chicken about this.

19, I'm sooo glad you have decided to expose to OM's wife, it's not only the right thing to do, but you are right..you can't keep living a life not KNOWING if your W is being honest with you about contact with OM...Even if the A is technically 'over', there is way too many opportunities for it to start back up at any minute.

I have no doubt that once you share what you know with OM's wife, you will feel much better having another person 'on your side' and ensuring that contact does stop. I hope once he realizes his little secret is out, he will have enough sense to change churches ...if they don't, you do know that you'll have to, whether it is an inconvenience or not...Contact has to be Zero once withdrawal truly starts...You might want to talk to her about that when you talk to her also...

Make sure your W doesn't know what you plan on doing...if OM finds out you are planning to talk to W, he'll use that info to get to her first and tell her you're some kind of psycho or some other stupid crap...it's gotta be a surprise to him as well as your W.

A side ?? to ML...should 19 tell his WW immediately after the fact that he has talked to OM's wife? Or should he just sit back and see how long it takes her to find out..that would be a clue as to how much contact' with OM she really has wouldn't it? I mean..if she isn't talking to him, then he wouldn't be able to tell her that 19 talked to his wife...just a thought..

That is a good point about seeing if she finds out. I am inclined, however, to tell my W as soon as I know OM's W has told OM.

Seems that waiting could make it even worse for me anger wise - OM's W knows my W - they are friends. Not best friends or anything like that, but friends.

I would hate for OM's W to decide to call my W before my W knows what I did. Seems like it would add insult to injury.

Also, with the help of the OM's W we can probably figure out if there has been more contact - hopefully she can check his cell records, which I can't do obviously.

Oh - And I will absolutely not tell them before I do it - I do have pretty good proof on one call, but he could paint me as a psycho.

Thanks for your comments and support. I am waiting a few days to do it - please don't let me talk myself out of it or chicken out.

{{That is a good point about seeing if she finds out. I am inclined, however, to tell my W as soon as I know OM's W has told OM.

Seems that waiting could make it even worse for me anger wise - OM's W knows my W - they are friends. Not best friends or anything like that, but friends.

I would hate for OM's W to decide to call my W before my W knows what I did. Seems like it would add insult to injury.}}

You're right 19,,,honesty should go both ways...and not telling her that you talked to OMW would be dishonest in a way I suppose..

Don't worry, I'll keep after you not to back down from doing this....You'll do just fine, and ML is right..you're marriage will be the better for the struggle...hang tough

19, just let me tell that you would be CRAZY to not be worried about it. I fully understand your fears. The reason I am not as worried as you is because: a) I don't have to face the consequences, YOU DO, and most importantly b) I have seen this played out over and over and over again over the years and have yet to see a marriage split up over exposure. The reaction is TEXTBOOK. They get mad, then they calm down and then the marriage really recovers when the affair is ruined.

Ruining the affair is the KEY to marital recovery. Exposure ruins affairs!

It is because of this experience that we are SO PASSIONATE about exposure. We have seen it be the cause of so many marital recoveries and we want you to have that too. WE KNOW IT WORKS, 19!

WE WANT YOU TO HAVE WHAT WE HAVE, MY FRIEND! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It enhances the effect of exposure, IMO, when the WS finds out she has been busted from a FRANTIC OP. It puts the onus on the WS to come to 19 and tell him she has been in contact. WHICH SHE WILL, because she will be so angry she will lose her composure and bust herself. So, I vote for saying nothing because this really puts her on the defensive even though she will try and go on the offense.

If she does say nothing, then he needs to tell her to make sure she knows.

However, 19, there are a couple of things I would have at the ready when the exposure comes out. The first is a no contact letter, written together and delivered by YOU.[we will give you the sample frm SAA] Her committment to no contact will be critical here, and may even mean leaving your church.

This is what concerns me the most, 19.I fear that you are only agreeing to do this because you are ANGRY at this recent development, rather than because it is the BEST, most strategic thing to do for the restoration of your marriage.

In short, you should do this because it is the RIGHT thing to do, not because you are angry. Otherwise, you haven't really bought into it at all.

You don't need to be concerned about my not buying in. Nothing has really happened recently that's prompted this - I have no real evidence that contact has continued - just some implications in a couple of calls.

I am going to do it because I do think it's the right thing to do - I am convinced that there is no other way I will ever be able to feel it's over. I can't live like that. I do also think I owe it to OM's W.

I don't think she'll agree to a letter - our MC suggested that on dday and she didn't want to do it. We argued for awhile and she wore me down on it. I wanted to send it mainly so he would know that I knew the whole story. Of course, he did know the whole story because she told him even though she said she wouldn't talk to him. So I was the one who didn't know the whole story - don't A's suck!

I don't mind changing churches - I am not sure I will ever like that church again anyway because of all this (I've been going there since 2nd grade - 33 years). I hope they'll leave. That's another reason I am going to tell OM's W - I can't take seeing that smug SOB on Sundays - it has taken about all the self-control I have not to beat the ****** out of him. Of course my W has worn me down on that too - thinks it ridiculous

I guess she has worn me down on a lot - and I am about ready to fight back. At least I will be in a few days. So far it's all been about her and how bad I am, I am ready for her to see how bad what she has done is. I think exposure is the only way to do that.

I dread going to the MC tomorrow - I have a hard time hiding things there and I need to hide this for a few more days.

19, You really need to stand strong on the No Contact letter, I let my H talk me out of that and we relied on a No Contact phone call to let her know it was over and that we were committed to working on the marriage...what a joke that was, within a month or two she was blocking her number and trying to get him on his cell phone..he even finally realized that she needed to see it in writing from both of us to 'get it'..also exposed to her employer at the same time because she had been using the company phone to call from....so far it seems like the No Contact letter and call to her employer has done the trick...over a month and not a peep....H used to get 'withheld number' calls on his phone (which he didn't answer, but insisted that it wouldn't be her because he had told her not to call his phone <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> )..well, lo and behold, haven't had one since the end of February when I called her work and we sent the letter...It really is important...

You know, I think when I talk to OM's W I will suggest they write a NC letter to my W!

I think she has been the pursuer more anyway. That would knock her right out of the fog real quickly - a "friend" of hers telling her to stay away - she'll see the reality there -

I'm sort of getting nasty now, so I guess I should stop. But I actually think I hate her right now. I don't like that, but I think it's true. I need to calm myself down and talk myself out of this feeling - otherwise, I'll blow it.

ML and this_hurts (and anyone else) - In light of what you know about my situation - do you think I am reading too much into the recent phone calls I heard between W and friend.

The first call went like this:

W: You didn't help me out the other day

Friend: I am playing devil's advocate, I am not going to tell you what you want to hear

W: I've been good. I did see him yesterday at church

I think she had called the friend to help talk her out of calling OM. She did see him at church, but didn't talk to him. I was there.

The second call (2 days ago) went like this:

Friend: I hope your heart is better

W: I have been behaving, not perfectly, but behaving ...

I think by "not perfectly" she means she's in contact with OM.

I would just like to know if a reasonable person would be bothered by these calls.

I am going to tell OM's W anyway - I am just trying to see if I am being irrational about these calls.

What do you think?

Yeah 19, it does you no good to allow yourself to fall into obsessing over this, especially if you are certain you need to wait a couple of days, just know that you are taking control of the situation ...You should still be praticing Plan A at this point anyway, so go home tonite and relax and be with your family... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh, and tomorrow give what ML said here some thought...I think she's right on the money...

{{It enhances the effect of exposure, IMO, when the WS finds out she has been busted from a FRANTIC OP. It puts the onus on the WS to come to 19 and tell him she has been in contact. WHICH SHE WILL, because she will be so angry she will lose her composure and bust herself. So, I vote for saying nothing because this really puts her on the defensive even though she will try and go on the offense.

If she does say nothing, then he needs to tell her to make sure she knows. }}

W: I have been behaving, not perfectly, but behaving ...

This would bother me too..No Contact means NO Contact..for me there would be no room for imperfection on that issue...

I do need to wait a few days - I really want to see one phone bill that should be on line any day now. I'd like to do it Friday, but I may have to wait til Monday.

I don't disagree with ML there and I like her plan. It would be fun. It would give me the upper hand for a short period - I would know the whole story, and not her for once.

But it would also seem to add insult to injury - who knows how long it could be before W finds out? If OM's W comes down hard on OM he may not call my W - I can't let that go for long because of the kid issues (our kids are good friends) and the church issues.

In light of my total situation, I am leaning towards telling her myself as soon as I know OM's W has told OM. I don't want to make her any madder than I have to because I am truly worried that she will leave. Not just because of that, but because she is and has been unhappy with me for a pretty long time. I do think she has re-written it to a certain extent since OM got involved, but I'm guilty of it too and I know that. I have been Plan Aing for 2 mos. with decent success (not perfect, but pretty good) and I think it's working, but it hasn't been long enough.

After I tell her, I plan to have a few beers and let her say whatever she wants. At least it will be fun for a few minutes.

So you do think that is what she meant by "not perfectly" - I do - I guess she could have meant just bad thoughts??? - doesn't sound like it to me.

Also, I have not mentioned this - about a week or so ago we were discussing the EA on the phone and she had the nerve to tell me that she didn't think I had the right to get pissed about the EA since I had treated her so badly for the past 15 years - is that a joke or what?

She's also told me a few times: "go ahead and tell OM's W if you want to ..." I haven't threatened it in a long time, however, so I don't think she has any idea that I am about to do it. Also, even if they warn her, I do have my tape. She also thought I was bluffing when I said that.

{{Also, I have not mentioned this - about a week or so ago we were discussing the EA on the phone and she had the nerve to tell me that she didn't think I had the right to get pissed about the EA since I had treated her so badly for the past 15 years }}

From what I've read here that just sounds like more of the WS script, they use that to justify their own stupid choices...I wouldn't pay too much attention to the re-writing of history she spews...just keep Plan A'ing and let her see by your actions that you are ready and willing to build a better marriage with her help...