He said that to me actually as he was leaving--I know you'd have never done this, intexas.

So he knows, but can't seem to see enough light to jump free. He is surely falling fast now. He is vehicle-less. The house is not selling. He has to depend on her now, even though he knows deep down she's not what he thought, and that she's not what makes him happy.

It is so very sad to me. And while I find some smiles in knowing he has caught a glimpse of what he has done to me in her doing this to him, I STILL hate that he has done this to himself.

Is this is a flaw in me that I cannot sit here and rejoice that the one who has hurt me so badly is getting a small dose of justice? This justice, reaping what you sowe, was actually something I have feared for him. I knew it would be painful for him. Discipline works that way.

I know I don't want him back. I have said that before. I just wish I was able to truly break from all this.

My fear is that I will be hurting him by telling him I don't care to know what is going on in his life anymore--even though I am ready to be done with the drama.

Am I making sense? Should I not care what my boundaries and MY choices will do to him? Am I too nice? Am I just unable to see the true manipulation and abuse I was really under?

I just want to have a clean break and learn what it is like to be treated well. I have no clue. Plan B I keep hearing--modified in a D-sense with this guy--so what kind of letter would that be in my sitch? I am welcoming suggestions.

I think you need to Plan B him, and turn him loose with her.

I would send him a good Plan B letter.

I think you should send a good Plan B letter, also. isn't there a sample one one a thread somewhere? I could have sworn I saw one . . .

But the last time your WH and the OW hit rocky times, the little bit of attention you showed (which was perfectly justified, in my opinion) seemed to fuel their fire--they were in love again, just because you seemed to care. If you completely shut your presence out, I think the end for them would come faster. While you don't seek this as a mechanism to get back together, ending the A needs to happen for him. He needs to wake up and start putting his life together, so he at least can be a father to your boys.

Go for it, intexas! Plan B!

-C

I would love to--for my own sanity. I mean, he doesn't find it odd to tell me about them as if she's a regular name to toss around. And I have read many plan B letters here (all great) but they seem geared to saving the love you have (most start out by saying that). I want to cut him off so he can grow(like you said--wake up) and become who he needs to be for those boys. I will never believe that he truly loves me or respects me. I won't. I wish I could, but when I reread my posts here and see it all again--I see the pattern of manipulation used only to benefit HIM.

The way he uses the kids, too. Don't get me started on that one.

SO, if any one wants to help with a letter in this sitch, I'd love some help. I was reading some other posts tonight, and love the support here. I have been feeling so lonely lately, and this site has been so great for me. Even tonight, I have read some things that made me feel better.

I've actually been crying a lot tonight--and coming here just helps.

They all are like that - throwing the OW's name around like it was a normal thing to talk about! Sickening, but part of the syndrome.

I promise you will have happiness again. Right now, it's just hard.

Thanks, B. I know I will. I actually am fine most days. Sometimes I just run so fast forward that when I finally slow down and breathe, I remember I am alone.
You've been a great support to me. Sometimes I wish I could see all the people behind the posts and give them a great big hug.

Not doing good in general. Still know I am gonna be okay--just, well, you know--scared of it all. It all seems so overwhelming. I am about to be divorced. I am about to be soley responsible for supporting me and the boys, because I cannot rely on WH's CS. I think the financial part is scaring me the most. It would help if the house we aren't living in (and I never got to) would just sell.

I had to see WH today and bring him a check. (Have to do this once a month unitl the D is final). He put his hand in the car (I thought to grab the check) and grabbed my hand instead. Said "Even though I am with someone else, I will always love and care for you, intexas. You can call me, too, you know. Her ex calls her (I wanted to say that he does more than that, but I hushed!) and it's fine if you call me,too."

I said "Please remove your hand from mine and no, I will not call you. I know how it feels, and I won't participate."

I need some help. I need a letter or something. When I am around him, it;s like this control is there and I am speechless and unable to do what I want to. I am so nervous.

He is not the man I remotel remember. And in a weird way, when he grabbed my hand, I felt so dirty. Like I was stomping on HER territory--even though he grabbed my hand.

I hate this. I am still in my safe place, but I am afraid right now. I know I am whining here, and I am sorry. I try to always be upbeat, encouraging and strong to my friends and even try to portray that here, but I gotta tell you--sometimes I just want to crawl into a ball and cry forever. But when can I? I am either at work or with the boys? I am thankful that I know the Lord, or I would be lost and a true mess.

I miss my family, too. I am only here in texas because of my stbxh--I went to college out-of-state and stayed. I was a military brat, so I don't even have a "home" to go back to. (I can't, even if I wanted--the D stipulates I must stay here until Elliot is 18!)

I keep telling myself that I am so young (27 is young, right?) and God will still use me and the boys and has a good future for us. But then I think sometimes that I can't believe I am only 27 and have had all this happen. I thought I've always had a good head on my shoulders and made good choices. I know this wasn't my choice, but do you sometimes feel like you must have done something wrong?
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> Pray for me tonight.

You will do fine. Please believe that. I still have a lot of hope that your husband will figure out that he is making a HUGE mistake.

But you are young, and you will recover and have a nice life. Faithinme got divorced and remarried a few months later, and she had 3 young ones. Of course we suggest that you wait awhile.

Don't give up, and know that the Lord has good plans for you.

Oh dear God I cannot even fathom being with another man anytime soon. i am not ready for that at all. I am scared at that thought, too. Not saying I want to be alone forever, but goodness, no, I can't even think that far ahead except to wonder if anyone would want someone with three kids.

And I do know I'll be okay. It's all just so tragic. And I do think one day he will know what a huge mistake he made--but not until he realizes the world does not revolve around his happiness. I know, though, that after all that has happened, from the pregnancy to the lies the money things he has done, etc, that it's too much for me.

Faithinme is one of my favorites. If you get a chance sometime, look up her posts. She did a great Plan A, but her WH continued down the wrong path.

She said she wouldn't be with anyone again too, and lo and behold, she met a guy with a nice home, and no kids, and they got married. They are doing fine.

Her WH was furious and tried to get back at her by trying to get custody of her kids. It was a big mess, but she made it just fine.

Well that's good to hear that it all worked out fine. I have lots of questions about post-divorce sitches, and will probably start posting on the divorced/divorcing page soon.. I just feel like I "know" the people around here better. Silly I know--when I have never met any of you--but yet some of my most crucial support comes from here. even when I just post and get no responses--i still read other thread and sitches and take a lot from the advice given to them.

It's a bit of a better night. I got the gumpion (strength) to call the realtor and give her the axe, but when I did, she said it was gonna be showed 3 times today and if nothing comes of it, she will let me out of the contract. I hate being in charge of EVERYTHING--down to the maintance of the lawn at the house we don't live in.

daily this manis making my stomach turn. I still don't hate him or wish bad for him, and I still hurt knowing he is hurting, but darn it--I wish he's step up a little and at least do something to help me out. Aside form going to the b-day party last weekend for two hours for Oliver (my middle boy), he will not see the boys again until May 13. There is ALWAYS something going on. And, I was planning a camping trip with my good girl friend and her kids that weekend, but feel like I shouldn't since that is the first weekend he can "fit" them in.

Thanks for letting me use this place as a sounding borad.

And I was serious--if anyone can help me with a pre-D plan B letter, I am in need. I can't seem to put my thoughts together for that, but know I need some sort of boundaries clearly worded out for him. (bolding because I could really use some help!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks guys.

Wow, you have more guts than I, taking 3 little boys camping!! I used to take my two all of the time, and it was lots of work. I took them fishing too, and now that they are grown, they still love it.

Funny thing neither of us have been camping that much, but I talked her into going with me, since it is probably not wise to go by myself when they are this little. I want to still do the things I wanted to do with them even though WH is not in the pic. He never wanted to do things with them. I want to leave them with good memories of a strong mom who didn't quit just because this happened. I've come to realize that I'm gonna need to be that rock for them. It's a big role to fill. I just want them to have the best childhood regardless of WH.

I do think, however, I'll only do it two nights the first time. Now I just gotta borrow a tent!

You have a great attitude, and while you will never be a father to them, you can do "boy" things with them.

My husband left when my boys were 4 and 1. I was always a girl type person, but decided I would do the best I could raising them.

I took them camping a lot, and then taught them how to fish, even though I wasn't much of a fisherman myself. At first I spent all my time untangling lines, and baiting hooks.

I put them in soccer, Little League, football, and basketball, where they had wonderful male coaches.

They have grown to be good men. They still love to camp and fish, go surfing, ride motorcycles, and do sports. I'm very proud of them, and glad I didn't just give up.

You sound like a wonderful mom, Believer. That is very encouraging to me to hear they turned out to be such great men.

So, the question is--did you really put the worm on the hook, or did you use those fake ones?

I did it once when I was younger (yes I remember because was so traumatizes by the whole thing) and it was horrible. I have already gotten used to hermit crabs and gheckos, but live worms? I guess I can do it.

I think WH takes them fishing because he lives in the country and there is a stocked pond 40 feet from his front door, but I doubt it is for very long or really for them.

I think if it were me, Intexas...and I was definately sure I didn't want him back...I'd outline my expectations in future behavior as boundaries. Then, I'd recommend that he contact me only by email regarding the children unless it was an emergency. I'd also let him know in no uncertain terms that I wasn't interested in any further personal contact with him.

And I don't think you should embrace even an ounce of guilt about that. The by-product of protracted struggle is that eventually the BS runs out of gas. The romantic love that you had for your mate evaporates. Sometimes it's replaced by Christian love for another human being and sometimes by indifference marked by occasional periods of irritation.

I'll be interested to read a preview of your Plan D letter....but I'm not the best person to help you with one. You're a MUCH kinder person than I am. And if it were me, I'd UNLOAD on him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

This guy hasn't been your friend. He's left you stuck in Texas for the next 18 years away from kith and kin. And now...he wants to sweetly hold your hand and assure you that he's there for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

IMHO, he's a wolf in sheep's clothing. He bites you through the heart and then assuages his guilt at your expense. I see him by his actions, reported here in your posts. And with no emotional connection to him, I see a master manipulater bent on his own immature course with no regard for those he tramples upon.

So, I'm bumping your thread up. Hopefully somebody will weigh in with better help.

intexas,
here is the Plan B letter I sent to my WH a couple of weeks ago. I have filed for divorce and we are now only talking thru our attorneys. we are working out the details, are in the process of fixing up & selling the house and have 3 kids (2 grown). the D should be final in a couple of months. WH still cares for me very much, but is not committed to "our" relationship, hence the proceedings.
cgw

Dear WH,

I write this letter to you today with some sorrow, but also with a sense of peace and hope for my own future.

I love you very much and have always loved you, and my belief in our marriage vows has always been strong.
You have always been my "rock" and I have leaned on your many strengths throughout the years. I am sorry
that I never told you that often enough. I wish I had done that and many other things to let you know this.

I regret that we find ourselves in this place that is lonely and confusing for both of us. Until you left, I did not understand how truly unhappy you were. I did not realize how our behavior patterns had negatively affected
our marriage. This has resulted in many hurts for both of us that were never intentional. I tried many times,
but did not know how to meet your emotional needs the way you needed for them to be met.

I have done much introspection over the last several months, and with IC's help have been learning a lot
about myself. I have made some changes in my life. Some of these you may have noticed, others you may not have. I will continue with my changes to become a more attractive, independent & healthy person. I have demonstrated to myself that it is possible for me to do this and that these changes are permanent. I still have much work to do, but with every success I have, my hope for my future is more confident.

As my hope for my future increases, so does my sorrow over your efforts to work on healing our broken marriage. I know that you love me & care for me deeply, as I do for you. And I want to be more than friends--
I want us to be working to recover our marriage. I would commit to that, but I have detached a bit, because
I do not see actions to support your words. I hear you saying that you will be committed and that we can be
exclusive, but I don't see active followup to that on your part. I acknowledge that you no longer work with OW,
but you have alluded that there is continued contact with her and/or others, which only adds to my unease.

I would feel safer in trusting that your promises to work on Marriage Recovery are true, if you showed me by:
marriage counseling with Steve Harley or someone locally, no further contact with OW or others, transparency
of any passwords, discontinuing the use of internet dating sites, getting rid of the cell phone in OW's name,
spending quality time together, reading and discussing marriage recovery materials, etc. These are things
that I have requested, that would show me that you are working toward Marriage Recovery with me and
actively protecting our relationship, but which maybe you are not ready to do at this time.

Since I seem to be in a different place than you are, and in order to preserve my feelings for you, I feel it is
necessary to limit contact between us to financial, legal or family matters. I know you are very familiar with
MarriageBuilders concepts and I believe you understand that this is not a punishment, but a way for me to
have space to work on healing myself. I realize that we will have to have some contact by virtue of the fact
that we have children together, and I will remain cordial and pleasant, but I don't think it is in our best interest
to be dating or sleeping together while we are actively proceeding with the divorce.

If someday you would reconsider, and would like to work toward marital reconciliation and recovery with me,
then I would be willing to discuss this and what we would both need to make our relationship work at that time.


Love Always,



BW (me)

Thanks cgw, that is a great letter, but I am not hoping for reconcilliation anymore. And honestly, the h you describe in the letter before he was a WH was nowhere near similar to the man I have been married to. I wish that was the case. I didn't file for divorce, he did, 2 months before the baby was born. This is his path of destruction, and I am tired of being on it. I haven't given up. I am protecting me and the boys now. There is a big difference.

But i do thank you for sharing and taking the time to post to me. I wish you the best on this journey as well. You sound like you are in a place of peace yourself. That's what MB does for you, huh?

and LJ14--
What I have written about my WH is true. Someone asked me once if I didn't have the emotional connection to him, would I think twice? I said, yes, because of the kids. But then he hit a point where I realized he was even putting them in this destructive path to help appease his guilt or whatever he calls it.

I like how you worded the part about the love being replaced--that really helped me, because that is what I think has happened. I know I still love him, but it is more the kind of love that I have for anyone who is hurting--that Christian love you are referring to. That was very helpful to me to see it put that way. He asks me if I will always be in love with him, and now I have a better grip on the whole thing.

When I get around to my version of setting boundaries letter-form, I will be sure to post it before sending it. And would love your feedback.

Your appraisal of him mirrors the same appraisal my closest friends and family have given me. I stood up for him too long and was so controlled that I was blind to it all, really. It's amazing to look back and see it all.

And thank you again for posting to me. It is my weekend to work the house, so I will be on the clock from 5pm today to 7am monday, only the big boss will be around some, so I will be busier than normal, but will be sure to check in a lot. It should be a WH-free weekend as he is working prom this weekend and though that is only one night, won't be coming to see the kids, so I am not gonna answer the phones (unless he calls my job--I have to answer that.)

Good deal. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You know, I honestly think writing these boundaries out will be a positive step for you. Your WH pops in on you every couple of days and upsets the balance of your life with his nonsense.

It seems to me that a break from the chaos and upheaval is well-earned. Not that you aren't doing GREAT...'cause you're an absolutely inspirational example of grace under fire. But still. Peace and closure are good things, and you deserve them.

I made a step towards some closure today. Now I know I said to another poster that I wouldn't want to see the OW, but I have thought a TON about that since that question was posted and I decided I simply needed to see her.

SO, I drove to the HS they both work at (without the kids) and parked outside where her car was parked. (I promise I am not a stalker--just wanted to calmly see her face and drive away). Well, plans never go as they should and WH comes walking out of another door straight to my car. Busted! He asks why I am there,etc. Calls me childish, starts saying that instead of wasting this time parking outsidr his job i could have spent it taking the boys to see him (ummm...how does he manage to turn EVERYTHING into my fault and something bad done to him???)

Anyway, I told him I came to simply see what she looked like. He had to leave in her car for practice, so I was still outside the school and she wasn't coming out as he was using her car. So suddenly adrenaline kicked it and I decided to just go and find her. After getting lost in the HS, I find a directory and find her room number. (This is all after school if anyone is wondering--no students to be found). I walk right on in the open door and no OW to be found. But then I hear laughing in the next room. I walk in that room and there she is, leaning against the cabinet laughing and smiling. Until she sees me.

She stopped smiling.
We made eye contact--deep, deep eye contact, for about 5 full seconds. The other teacher is saying nothing, as she has no clue who I am.
And then I said, "okay. Thanks." and walked away.

Walked away to my life one step closer to a recovered self.

It was good for me. I didn't cry. I thought I would. I thought I'd just see her in the parking lot, drive away and leave. But that didn;t work, and somehow I knew that was my chance to show myself I could do it. I still can't believe I walked into the school and found her.

I guess I could have said something nasty. Thrown bananas or something. But I couldn't. Looking in her eyes, seeing that fear, that concession in her eyes that I really was a living breathing woman just like her--that was enough for me. Knowing WH does not really have a clue to the woman I really am--that was enough, too. Because now, some of this control he likes to surround me with was taken aback by a more gutsy and confident woman than he knew.

So was it the wrong thing to do? maybe. I don't know. I am okay. I still feel a bit rushed and energized by it all.