.... H has bad attitude about books...even went as far as to say in sarcasm some time ago..."Just tell me what book has an outline of how you want me to be and I'll be that person"...also stated, "Don't you realize the people that write those books have the same issues as us they are human beings with the same problems as ours".
Orchid: As a WS, mine had a bad attitude about 'books' also. Seems the WS mindset doesn't encourage 'good education'. Gotta work from that POV. When mine babbled like that I recall a convo that went something like:
Ws: I don't like to read. I don't like Harley. He is a big talker and doesn't know what he is talking about.
BS: Hm.... (had to think a bit before I replied but when I did....).... hmmmm u mean you read the newpaper, the Bible (he used to read the Bible), your car and other tool instruction manuals, national geographic, photography magazine, etc.... but you don't like to read? Doesn't make sense 2 me. (I paused a bit here since I could see he realized that objection just went down the toilet).
Now about Harley NOT being qualified, he and his staff have been trained and helped many through A issues. U r NOT unique. U might think u r but u r not (see I got in another point - score 1 for the BS). So you think u r more qualified than a trained marriage counselor? You have more experience in the A field than you told me? (I reverse babbled one real good - LOL!!).
WS: (squirming a bit), No...that's not what I mean.... I just don't want to talk to him.
BS: Harley you mean!??!? Well not sure if he wants to talk to you right now.... I know I don't.... but that's not the point. The point here is reading this books which I have read and found very interesting (His Needs/Her Needs).... yea we know it's your choice and you can choose t/b smart or dumb. It's up to you. The book is on the desk here, you decide. Don't worry about the pages I marked. They were for me.
End of discussion. Note how I was able to address his babble, answer it and give him back his guilt? This took time to learn but it c/b done.
H is also fishing to support his cause and told me he polled a few of his clients to find out if they had separate email acct password protected and cells password protected...he told me they did and it isn't unusual and although he knows that "I know you don't care what other people do it is our M and it is something that you don't approve of in a M". He just wanted to let me know that we aren't different than most.
Orchid: Of course he will find those who will support his cause. The sad thing is how did he have to doctor up his issue to make him seem legit? He did tell them that these passwords were t/b kept secret from their mates? If he did and he got those answers, the reverse babble response w/b something like:
WS: See, my friends said they all use passwords.
BS: Ummm.. all e-mails require passwords...., so your 'friends' are saying it is ok to keep secrets which are damaging their marriage?
WS: Well..... they said they have pass words.
BS: Ok, we have identified the need for passwords but ok to damage the marriage?
Ws: um.... well.... yea.
BS: You've got new friends? I don't have friends like that.....we didn't have friends like that..... Why r u running around with people how are sooo disrespectful?
NOTE: The point here is to strip away his babble, then hand it back.
I'll start with the EN and then try to move to His Needs/Her Needs (the only one of the list I haven't read yet) I will also try to get the $ for SH but that one is going to be a huge challenge. How frequently are the sessions usually at the beginnning?
Orchid: If he won't read, then you read and apply. As the EN questionnaire, if he won't take it, you take it twice - once as yourself and 2nd as him.... c/b revealing. Then let him know you have identified his needs. LOL!!!! Let him wonder what they are (don't tell him until he agrees to take the EN questionnaire - the WS in him will want you to tell him but that s/b with his effort not yours.... he will tell you that u r wrong but that won't be proven until he takes it himself and that's the goal anyways. LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
As for Harley's sessions, there is the initial one that requires you take the En questionnaire and read SAA & Hn/Hn. The more you show you have read, the quicker the sessions go. You decide whether you go back for another session. Steve will let you know when you need to stop. It is about getting you a working plan. It doesn't have t/b weekly. It c/b monthly or even less....all depends on his assessment and your budget. Check it out, your insurance may cover it.
Harley is certainly worth every penny spent but it is expensive.
take care,
L.
Keep up the good work! 
