{{{{{{{hugs to you}}}}}}}}

I am mad at myself. but you made me laugh. I have a sock story. I posted it around here one time.

{{{fgirl}}} perhaps it is time for you to take care of ~you~

You cannot be strong all the time. Sometimes you have to let someone else be strong for you. Have you done IC to deal with the remains of the A? I am just now in the early weeks of recovery after this last 2 year A of my H's. I am completely traumatized by the events of the last two years, birth of OC and betrayal of my IL's. I am on AD's but I think I need to go back to IC. I need somewhere safe to vent my anger and baby am I angry. Fgirl, it is ok to need help and to take care of yourself.

Dear Faithful,
Thank you for reaching out to me, you just cannot possibly know how much I admire your seemingly endless wellspring of strength. In your situation I think I would be reduced to a snarling nail-spitting zombie. The thought of that woman bearing the child I always wanted would seriously send me over the edge. I am in IC; I've come to a new place along the Recovery Road, it seems I'm ill-equipped to deal with it. I want to be my old strong self again. I need to get off my [censored] and work harder at it! I have spent a few weeks, I think, in a kind of 'sorry for myself' place of not being able to move or do anything constructive at all. This is what I think is making me crazy.

It is amazing that people who have been through so much and eaten so much crap continue to have the strength to lend a hand to someone else who has fallen down on the Recovery road.

Things seam to be getting a little better today as I am trying to control my anger.

We had a long talk last night.

He's hurt I don't trust him... He tries to understand my side but he believes I should be able to see the turning point and how different things are now that he told me the whole truth and that he realized how important it is to be honest and how his lies affected our lives.

You are under no obligation to re-establish trust according to WH's timetable. He betrayed the most intimate of trust so he has to work his butt off to get it back. Trust, for you, will come when it comes. If he is not happy about that, remind him that you are not the one who broke the trust. That is fair to tell him BTW and not a LB or DJ. It is the truth. Tell him you need time. You don't know how much time.

Let him know that rebuilding the trust will take several times longer than the A ran it's course. Why? Because there is no benefit of the doubt. There's lots of doubt and he needs to show you the benefit.

L.

Thank you Tracionado, I tried to explain him that... but he insists the situation is different now, that all he wants is to be with me and that I should see that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


On a good side he said that maybe we should read MB principals together and fill the questionaries I showed him some time ago as to give us a "goal" to keep us busy and help me get over all this.

He is stuck and does not know how to react from the fact that I haven't cried yet...

I told him that I had cryed so much over the "denied" d-days (I was fool enough to believe he was faithfull against all evidence), that maybe now my heart is just wearing a strong defensive armor, and that maybe I am now reacting like a BS for the third time... at least it's pretty close to how I feel. It hurts very much, but I can't just cry.

He believes I need to to let go of the past and get over with...

He says he's hurt that he hurt me but he wants to see the future not the past.

Orchid That's a good one I'll tell him. I love your writing and the way you have to "explain" the complex and complicated in short sentences. Thanks

Part of that may just be a "guy" thing. Men like to fix problems. We have no patience.

Things are moving slowly but I'm finding some peace since I started to figh the anger and hate feelings. I am preparing my self to TAKE the RISK of trying recovery.

He's really going to take the trip. (He could not refuse it, really)

He asked me to join him, but I really can't, I applied for holidays in my office and they refused.

In some way I really didn't want to go. I really want the peace of not seing him for 10 days.

On the other hand, I feel this trip can be the end of our marriage. All it takes is that woman to be there. I have a way to know if she has been there but only after the trip and probably after my H returns.

I told him I still don't agree nor like the idea of him going, but I understand he has to go. Time will tell the consequences.

He promised me he wouldn't go, one of my requests as to save our marriage, he let things go too far until he couldn't refuse it.

I am really trying to stay out of anger, and give all I can to try to save this marriage, if he doesn't want it's his problem.

That takes a lot of courage. The trip won't be the end of your marriage. What WH does on the trip might be the end of the marriage. What happens if the OW is there but WH avoids her completely or tells her to go to heck in a handbasket? Just by virtue of the fact that she is there, how can you know how your WH handled the situation?

Personally I wouldn't draw this line in the sand. If you have the courage to start, try to get the courage to finish. I know this feeling. I have done this. Get this trip behind you - whatever the results - and then get down to the business of trying to work on the M and deciding that is what you want or not.

This trip is unfortunate but, in the greater scheme of things, is fairly meaningless. Don't worry about it so much. You have said there are no other options. Okay - there are no other options.

Quote:

What happens if the OW is there but WH avoids her completely or tells her to go to heck in a handbasket? Just by virtue of the fact that she is there, how can you know how your WH handled the situation?
--------------------------
I have no way to find out. He tells me that if she's there it will be even better, so he can prove me nothing wrong will happen.
But how do I know??? How can he prove me anything?

There isn't much I can do about it, unless not to think about it much.

No other options at this time, he'll leave on the 4th.

Time will tell <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I really want to concentrate on recovery <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The question is not HOW you can prove it. The question is WHAT you want to prove and WHY you need to prove it to begin with. This trip is a wayside in the journey of life - a rest stop - a potty break. It means nothing in the overall journey. No disrespect intended but don't spend so much energy on it. You said there is no option - there is no option. Focus on positive things rather than dwell on the negative. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My H, was on a "terrible"job. Working from 2pm till 3am, seldom coming home for dinner. Only having saturday free, he started to feel the pain of not being with us, specially the girls. At the time 3 and 5.
Then he started to feel guilty for not being with them. But it was a good job and promising career. (Not easy to get another one around here anyway)

One year after, he had his first A.

Since then, increasing till present day, and specially during second A he started saying we had our girls too young, he was not ready to be a father.

At the same time, elder girl went to p1 and started to have problems in the school. Since she was such a perfect healthy child and one of the smartest till K3, I admit it was a big strike on us as parents. Only this year (P3) we found she's dislexic and everything we were doing was kind of wrong.

As per this last two years, he's been growing away from them, despite the affairs he says he feels very guilty for their problems and that he tends to get away from them.

After d-day, one of the most hurtful things he told me was that, the reason why he had those affairs was because of the girls, he blamed the girls for our lifestyle. He already told me, recently, this was very stupid and childish of him to say.

One of my EN is definetely for him to regain the great relationship has a father he had before.

But since he's been 'blaming them for two years to easy his conscience and to justify his actions, it's really hard for him. And all the "bad habits"he created during that time are not easy to get over.

Besides the fact that he is a man, he's not patient with them, he yells at them for no reason, and he does not know what a child is. He also has big childhood problems to address.

As you can imagine, the last 3 months have been a mess, and during this 2 trimester (jan-apr) of school, their grades went down.
We don't argue, we never did, we always talked about everything, and if one of us is really about to loose it we know how to stop and came back later to talk when calm.
Girls obviously know nothing about what is going on.

BUT they certainly know and feel something is wrong. After all I have been into the chock, insanity, grief, anger stages and have not surely been the best mother for the last months. (It still feels like d-day was yesterday)

The signs, besides grades, I get from them are mostly the constant fighting with each other, they have always been good sisters, with lots of diferences but always went along pretty well.

He can't stand it. And his attitude with them has not improved, it's the opposite.

last night DD8 spend the whole afternoon at a new friends house, when we pick her up she was SO HAPPY. On the way home, she had no glasses, she forgot her book, and note book at the friends house. H started yelling at her in such a way that I was in shoock as anyone would be.
We talked many times that SHE HAS BEEN MISS TREATED FOR HER PROBLEM during TWO YEARS, her self esteem is none, all this "bad" behaves need to be solved in time with LOTS of patience from us and teachers. He was just talking to her like she was nothing, always a failure, etc.

We even been talking about her and her problems a couple of days, and how they increased during the last months because we are not well ourselves.
She's very Intelligent, as all dislexic kids are. But she's has an EXTREMELY HIGH EMOTIONAL intelligence. (she can feel all our feelings)

I found a way to tell him to stop without crying DD8 see it. We silently went home.

We get there he falls a sleep on the coach till this morning.

We go out all together and he barely talks to any of us. Lunch time we get them and on the way home they fight all the time, same returning to school after lunch, when I arrive the parking to get the ticked I open the car door (I always drive) and DD6 gets her fingers stick on the door, she screams and I imediately open the door, no blood but she cries a lot. When I am parking (car moving) H gets out of the car, closes the door with all his strength and yells "I am tired of this S****" and leaves. DD6 is so scared she stops crying. Her fingers are well, she has tiny fingers, not even red or brown.

Of course this kind of events happened during this last two years. I would calmly discuss it with him. He would understand we would agree... but he would do it again.
He has issues within himself, and something he finally admitted he needs to change is his anger/ agressive way of talking to people without even realizing.


OF course, none of this problems would be as BIG as they are if it wasn't for his actions (Affairs and lies). If we both had been there as full parents during this last two years. If the WHOLE family had not been living with H as the main concern during his problems in his office. Everything always around him. To relief him from his stress.

Here I am at the office and wandering.

What the H*** am I doing with this man.WHY should I even try to recover my marriage?

How can I not be wondering if they would be better without him?

In my true nature, and before d-day this events would lead to the loving and caring me to talk and solve the issue in peace... Now my very first though is Divorce... besides the hurt and the mistrust I also have to live with this? WHat kind of life is this I am starting?

Lost - That's tough. My W is fine as a parent. Your H is going to regret that one day. He'll regret his relationship (or lack thereof) with his kids.

Maybe it's fog? I really don't know (not sure I really know what fog is) but it sounds pretty irrational to me - blaming kids for A?

Maybe H is depressed? Has he thought about AD's?

Of course, you have to decide if they would be better off without him. Most of the stuff I read says kids are almost never better off after a D -

I am sorry for that aspect of your situation (I never realized that).

I am sure that makes it much harder.

He love's the girls... but he has been away from them for three years, and with the affairs building this fog irrational thinking and actions <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

He already realized he was being irrational when he said that... but the fact is that it's being hard for him to get closer to them, specially since d-day.

Add to all this mess the fact that he has childhood issues and the problems our girls are facing, dyslexia and attensive disorder.
It's really hard as a parent to see your children not doing so good in school has you know they can do:)

We haven't talked last night, I got home late from work, he took girls to bed.

Guess we were both too angry to talk, better give it one day and we will talk this evening I hope.

But talk about meeting EN...

He's not even being a good father.
I am not sure if he's a serial cheater or he actually just been acting childish and ate the cake when he had the opportunity.
He's already breaking a promise he made at my request when we decided to rebuilt our marriage.
He's not really working that hard to re-assure me.

- He's hurt I don't fully trust him - Can't he even look at HOW many lies in the past?
I mean he did not only lied to cover his actions as he lied when faced with hard evidence, when told the consequences of his lies, still denied and lied and continued not in one affair, but starting new ones <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I guess only time can give me any answers. I have go be back to my calm, rational patient me and most of all a believer in human kind.

I guess his business trip will do us some good, as I'll have some peace.

He went on that trip and is coming today.

1. It felt good that he was way. I felt relieved from all this past months, at least for the first days.

2. I took him to the Airport, we talked for a while, I told him he's not really re-assuring me nor helping me regain trust. Unlike before, even during the past 2 years, he had always told me everything he was doing during the day. He stop doing it after d-day. He said he understands and will avoid it, asked for my help (tell him) how he can improve.

3. He didn't call all that much during the trip, he would call to say good night to the girls but never really mentioned what he was doing or how was his day. (He was on a business trip for 10 days, but actually he only had to work for 2 days, the rest was just for visiting the town. (before, on any trip he would call all the time, morning, eventually during the day and always in the evening.

4. While doing some storage in the house my maid found some stuff from my H forgotten on a box and just left it there for me to decide what do do. The maid and my girls saw a picture of my H holding OW number 2.
For me it was like d-day all again. For the girls it was very weird... I told them it was just a collegue from his work... elder one just said, it looks like boyfriend/girlfriend like those big kids in our school. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> (She end up not paying much attention when I just said, "don't be silly, that's daddy and she's a journalist that worked with him" she's only 8 and she's ok.

5. It all just hit me hard. So I went on the snooping again. I found he had just installed MSN again in his home computer. And all contacts (OW's) are still on his address book.

When he said he wanted to rebuild, he promised three things:

- He would not go on this specific trip.
- He would never drink unless with me and NEVER during business events.
- He deleted MSN and all contacts and he'd never join or do anything on the internet without telling me.

He fail them all <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


About the picture, it's just disgusting.
But the worst for me, it just shows he lied when he was supposed to be Radical Honest and tell me everything that happened so we could figure out why it happened.

He says the picture was taken on that trip they had the first ONS.
He said that after conference dinner, they just went to a bar (just the 2) and had some drinks and they were just talking. Only on the way to the Hotel, in the taxi she started kissing him nothing happened till then.

The picture was taken in the bar... and it's more then explicit that they are a couple and he is about to kiss her.

It seams a small detail but... it's a lie right? HOW I'M I SUPPOSE to believe HIM??? at anything at all???


6. As for the trip... well I have no idea what he has been doing. He even promised that if OW n.1 was there he would told me. He didn't and I didn't ask. I am on the net trying to find if she was there. Maybe she'll write the article of the whole event after she arrives. Nothing so far on her newspaper.


I have no idea on what to do. I am really, really tired of all this... I just want to disapear, at least for a few days <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I need time to myself and try to get brain in order.

I couldn't hide it and we talked about it on the phone yesterday, right after I found the pic, I was extremely still in shock.
I told him I had found it and that I was very upset that he lied. Told him that he should continue to enjoy his holidays, since we are living this nightmare he's really the one in need of holidays and that he didn't need to call if that was being so much trouble for him.

I was not nice, he told me that was nothing that important since I already knew about that A, and nothing new to it. We would talk when he comes home.

Last time we talked I told him I could not have the day off (true and told him why) to pick him at the airport (2.5 hours from here, one by boat) and by his arrival time not even at the boat in our town. He said... "so I am on my own... ok. just need to know." (He hates to arrive from any trip and have no one waiting him)

I message him today at arrival time and asked for him to tell me as soon as possible which boat was he taking so I would leave the office earlier to pick him.

He called and said I'll arrive at 5:00 but you don't need to pick me... I can get a taxi home.
I asked him"are you sure?" No need, I will take a cab. and that was it. On a bad mood.


What am I supposed to do?????

Plan A? How come if he's supposed to be a FWS.

and... we are supposed to be in recovery... but I just want to be as far as possible from him.

But I don't really consider it recovery because I am still waiting on RADICAL HONESTY.

He's upset, because he WANTS ME TO BELIEVE HIM 100%. Because he says now he only says the true.

And finally - WHat am I supposed to do with the picture??? I want to keep it just in case I will ever have to prove anything. If he just wants to destroy it, should I keep it anyway?

I don't even know what to tell him when I see him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I am at the office now. I just feel like driving to the harbor get in the boat to the airport and take the first plane to anywhere... just for a few days... just to be with myself.

I know I wont do it tho <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> but I wish I had the courage to do it.

So I just go home and call him all the names I have never called him, and yell at him as I have never done, and then what?

thanks for listening.

Lost... and getting lost each day.

R u ready for plan B?

L.

Good question!

I don't know.

Let me think about it for a while...

HUGS LW. That is heartwrenching that you found all that stuff. All the things he promised he would do - and he didn't.

I am so sorry.

I dont know what you should do, it is so terrible. It is worse than D day isn't it. Cause you try to build trust and its shattered.

Best of luck with whatever you decide. I just went plan b - its v v hard and Im not coping well, but I dont have the rollercoaster you've just described anymore..

Zuj

Jump off the runaway train and go to Plan B.
If it were me I would have been mighty tempted to sneak to the airport and spy on WH and OW leaving the arrivals lounge.
Proof, because I need that kind of stuff. The worst thing for you is that you are still having to rely on your WH being honest. Don't. He can and will tell you anything to prolong his "good times".
Plan B. It will give YOU rest and breathing space. It will give him a fright.
I feel for you. What an awful thing to have to deal with. But you can do it. Don't forget to eat and sleep, your kids need you to be strong and the "mummy" they know, especially with daddy being absent.
Sorry to be so bossy, it must be the teacher in me.
kate xx