I'm controlling. That doesn't negate WS's responsibility. I haven't acted controlling int he past month. I've been quiet. and it still hasn't helped him be more transparent.


His first A was in 03. It was resolved by her finally leaving him. I told OWH about it and she was in the process of movig to another area with her job.


What are Plan A and Plan B?


13th paragraph

Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended.


This is where I get confused. If WS is still in the A or showing WS-like behavior do they even want you to meet their needs? Furthermore, it makes the WS feel like a doormat.

Further in the same article:

"Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.

So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B."

You are right that the guidance in this article is not entirely clear. See the corresponding section in SAA.



Yes, you are right. He has "responsibilities" he's not meeting.

Here comes the classic MB question:

Do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?

For now, you can't have both.

If you're struggling with the principles, please consider counseling with one of the MB counselors.

WAT

This question gives me a headache. Almost immediately my head started hurting.

Thanks for the replies, WAT.

LLG: To answer your questions, my marriage is not really in recovery. My situation is a bit different from some in that my H never left home, never wanted out of the marriage, and never had any problems with me.

He just likes having his cake and eating it too and does not see why that should cause a problem for me. After all, he pays the bills and he's not divorcing me, is he? What more could I possibly want?

If you've read the Harley book *Buyers, Rentals and Freeloaders,* then you'll understand when I say that I am a lifelong Buyer married to a hardcore emotional Freeloader.

I did "Plan A" for years - way too long - and have now gone to Plan B when he's out of town (which is often.) No, it's not MB standard, so I don't talk about it much. But he does seem to be making a slight attitude adjustment since I started not answering the phone and not calling him whenver he is at work or on the road (it's been a few months now.)

The advice I quoted you *is* MB standard. You sounded to me like you are getting fed up and angry with your WS's behavior, so it may well be time for Plan B. Other than that, the Harleys advise 2-6 months for Plan A -- rarely longer so you don't burn out on it.

But as WAT said, there is no formula. You do Plan A long enough to demonstrate your changes and improvements to your spouse, but not so long that you start getting angry and resentful at not getting your own ENs met ('cos you won't.)

Once the anger and resentment sets in, it's time for Plan B. Otherwise, you'll just learn to hate him and then it's nothing but Plan D.
Mulan

So are you saying that you've made your own formula, I mean by doing Plan B without total seperation and only while he is out of town?

Also you stated that your H is an emotional freeloader. I feel this is my H's emotional style if the definition has anything to do with the word freeloader. He attracts women that take care of him. Doing special things for him, sexing him, wine and dining him. He loads all his of emotional heartaches of his life on them. He did it to me and I still went for him. Go figure.

Anyway I don't know if there is not a way to make your own Plan A. People won't tell you that. It seems that BS's bare so much and WS aren't given enough consequence. Perhaps this is just in my case. I'm still trying to find my way in Plan A.

Aside from my personal feelings about the matter, I think the Harley's were brillant in devising the plan. But I feel strongly, depending on your situation it may need customizing.

Thanks for sharing.

Hiya WAT,

I have a question for ya. I asked you about transparaency. fi you recalled, the other day you told me I was being controlling and told me to shut up a lot.

If you can answer this without DJing with the shut-ups I'd really appreciate your reply.

On this thread (Question for the All the Board??????????? by saenz)
I notice you said this:



The thing is my H is a repeat offender of me that is, not the law. How come you said I should shut up which seems to imply do nothing, but here on this thread you seem to be saying that BSs shouldn't put up with it? Well you didn't say do nothing but you said meet hius needs. Isn'there more to do than this? Just a question.

Hiya WAT,

I have a question for ya. I asked you about transparaency. fi you recalled, the other day you told me I was being controlling and told me to shut up a lot.

If you can answer this without DJing with the shut-ups I'd really appreciate your reply.

On this thread (Question for the All the Board??????????? by saenz)
I notice you said this:


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




The thing is my H is a repeat offender of me that is, not the law. How come you said I should shut up which seems to imply do nothing, but here on this thread you seem to be saying that BSs shouldn't put up with it? Well you didn't say do nothing but you said meet hius needs. Isn'there more to do than this? Just a question.

I apologize if you received my earlier rsponses as DJs. They were not intended to be disrespectful.


Let's break this down into two pieces.

The "shut ups" were what I recommended after expressing your disatisfaction with something he says or does. Express your disatisfaction once and don't hound him.

Regarding repetitive cheaters, I don't recall if you believe your H is one, but yes, I believe that at some point a BS ought to have her/his head examined for staying in a marriage with such a person. This is just my personal opinion and not everyone may agree.


Yes, there's more to recovering a marriage from infidelity than just meeting needs. Unmet needs are just a possible contributor to the WS's justification to have an affair. This goes for garden variety affairs. IMHO, repetitive affairs suggest additional/separate issues with the WS.

Hope this helps.

WAT

Yes, it does help. Thanks.

Thanks. I appreciate that. I realize hounding is not good.



I believe my H has the potential to be one. This is his second A. He hadn't expressed remorseful except for briefly once or twice. He has been unwilling to be transparent. When I ask him questions his defensive., Even still. So I limit what I ask and when.

I believe he has great potential to get into an A again b/c he blamed me for him being in it. He isn't taking full responsibility for his actions, then to me he doesn't know he is the one that determines his choices not me. So he could choose to be in one once again whenever times are diffcult for him.



Are you thinking the BS has also emotional issues or issues of some type that causes them to stay with someone that as been a serial cheater?

Yes, generally speaking. In the least such a BS would seem to have some self esteem issues, don't you think?

But this is just my personal opinion and I am not a shrink.

WSs blaming the BS is very typical - until they have their revelation, if ever. Another "version" is what my XW thinks (I suspect): She may not "blame" me exclusively, but concluded our marriage was "over" and thus was expendable.

WAT

Well not necessarily self esteem issues. Maybe some other issues that haven't been addressed. Such is my case. But I understand what you mean. Thanks for sharing.