Hello Everyone,

I'm writing this in hopes of some good advice.

A little background.

M 33
W 32
Married 9 years
Together 16 years (highschool sweethearts)
No Children
She filed Marital Separation Oct. 20th, 2005
She filed for Divorce in early Jan 2006

I don't really know where to start so I'll tell you where I am and you can ask questions.

Basically I'm getting divorced and I have know idea how to stop it.

W kicked me out of our house on Oct. 20th, 2005. She got a restaining order when she file marital separation. I still came around and she was ok with it. One day snooping around I found something for OM. I let her know I knew. Not by telling her but showing her. We still have never talked about it. The next day she changed the locks on our house and I have not been in since. That was a few days after Thanksgiving. During that time I spoke to her a few times but did not pursue. We had two short dates. I left her alone b/c that is what she said she wanted. I knew about OM at this point. It WAS a friend. Not really sure what ever became of the A if it was EA or PA. I really don't care.

So anyway I figured she would file for D in jan and she did. I haven't talked to her since. I'm learning my mistakes and trying to change so this won't happen again.

Just a few questions

1. Has anyone gone from a relationship of 16 years to no contact at all? It's like I don't exsist.
2. How do I save a marriage if she wants nothing to do with me?
3. Is it likely that she will come around? I don't even mean trying to stop the D but just speak to me.
4. Has anyone had a spouse stop contact with everyone you know. She stopped all contact with OUR friends. I know a girl who tried to call her recently and she wouldn't take the call.

I'm not sitting around waiting on her or anything but lately I've been filling like I need to do something to try and save this. (I know I can't save it without her wanting to) I have only heard two things about her. Probably a month ago my bookkeeper (also hers) told my mother that she seemed real mad. Why is she mad? She's getting everything she wants. Also recently she sent a card to my parents b/c I had a death in the family. She wrote "I'm probably the last person you want to hear from" Even signed it Love. My thoughts were that she feels guilty.

So anyway please feel free to ask questions. I would like to save my M but I'm prepared for the worse.

Hi, Chong,

2. How do I save a marriage if she wants nothing to do with me?

Why does what she wants matter to your choices? You chose to leave her alone when she requested you do that. You have other choices. Plan A, for instance, which includes exposure, eliminating your own Love Busters (LBs) and meeting her Emotional Needs (ENs). Have you read all the material on the website? The artcles about The Love Bank, etc?

3. Is it likely that she will come around? I don't even mean trying to stop the D but just speak to me.

What are you doing to speak to her? To connect? Is there an adultery grounds for D in your state?

4. Has anyone had a spouse stop contact with everyone you know. She stopped all contact with OUR friends. I know a girl who tried to call her recently and she wouldn't take the call.

She is hiding her affair...talking with others might expose it. Not unusual at all. If she made you her whole world, grew resentful, lacked respect and felt entitled to replace you, then why would she want to see the face of someone who likes you, when she's trying to replace you?

One spouse can save the marriage. Knowing your power, your choices, can do this. Tell me, what payoff did you get from letting her choose no contact? Did you have a little belief in you that she would, someday, do this? Or that you would cease to exist?

Read up on Plan A and talk to CarenMc who has done a seperated Plan A (there are others, I just can't think of them now). Get to know exactly what you need to believe to do this. You are significant. You exist. You matter.

LA

Chong, have you contacted an attorney? Your first move has to be to protect yourself legally. Leaving your home was the worst thing you could do, but that can't be fixed now because she has a RO against you.

Secondly, you need to find out who this OM is and start exposing the affair to your family, her family, close friends, the OM's family. Exposure is RUINOUS to affairs because affairs can only survive under the veil of secrecy.

Those are the things you must do if you want to have a chance to save your marriage.

The reason your W sounded MAD to the bookkeeper is because your W has had to demonize you in order to justify her affair and throwing you out of the house.

p.s. I bet if you stake out your house, you will find that the OM has taken your place there. You need to get pictures. This is why a BS should never move out.

Thanks for both of your replies.

I have read everything on this site and others. I have exposed the affair to everyone I know. Probably a little to much. Everyone I know doesn't like her now. She probably knows it. The OM was OUR personal trainer and is 10 years older.(he is a bodybuilder) It was a friendship gone bad. He doesn't care about anyone but himself.

I never asked to leave my house. It was a restraining order placed on me. She said she wanted to left alone so she got rid of me. I never deserved this or anything she's done. I think she must feel guilty and ashamed to talk to me.

I have an attorney and the D is getting nasty. That's what sucks is that there is a lot at stake. I'm not gonna get screwed. We just offered another settlement and there's no way she'll accept it. Of to court we go.

As for the drive by and checking on them I did that at the beginning of the separation. It drove me nuts. I never found anything. It was doing more damage than it's worth especially b/c I couldn't catch them. In my state it doesn't matter if someone is having an affair. She'll look worse in court but it won't affect the outcome.

So I guess I don't know how to talk to her. When I did speak to her early on she said she didn't want to see me. We did two dates but they were short and meanless to her.
It's been so long since I've seen or talked to her I don't know how to approach her.

Have you exposed to the PT's family and workplace?

The reason I suggested doing a drive by was to see if he was over there. Glad to hear you are getting good legal support.

Will she return your calls? Did you do much lovebusting after you left? What was your last interaction like?

Thanks Melody for replying.

I have not exposed A to either side. Her parents are D and neither would believe me. Her father hates me and is glad this is happening.(I assume) We are so far in the D that they are on her side so no matter what I say they'll never believe me.

Like I said I used to drive by both places to see if I could catch them. Never could and it did more damage to me than help. She never admitted to the A. To be honest I think it never became PA until I got kicked out. I think she would justify it by saying we're getting D anyway so what's the big deal.

As for contact I tried to reconcile at the beginning. She went to one counseling session with me and quit. I kept going but since have quit due to money. I talked to her a few times early but she said she didn't want anything to do with me. I figured that if I let her go she might miss me and at least make contact. That never happened.

She has done so many things to hurt me I think she feels there is no choice but to D me. She is hardheaded and won't change her mind. Plus her dad is probably pushing the D. I know that b/c when we first separated she said things that definately came from him. Example we didn't need a legal separation. That was totally his idea. She changed bank accounts and told me that she had to protect herself. That is her dad talking. He has been D 3 times and has not been a great father figure.

Opps started rambleing. Sorry.

As for lovebusting I didn't do it. Again I thought I was supposed to leave her alone so she could think. Last time I sppoke to her I told her I never thought we would D. She told me she probably would regret it but I think most say this. That was it.

She never has shown any emotions thru this whole thing. Except for being mad. Actually I never have seen her have very much emotion. She bottles everything up. She never opens up to me and tells me how she feels. I told a couselor that she never takes responsibility for anything. I'm the one always apologizing.

Chong, first off, it is important to understand why this all happened. She booted you out because she was having an affair. Now, you say she is hardheaded. I am here to tell you that we are told the same thing about almost EVERY wayward wife whose H comes here. It makes no difference whatsoever in saving the marriage. There still is a chance.

But, here is the reason why exposure would be a good idea NOW. Exposure is simply ruinous to affairs. Exposing it would cause great conflict in the affair and hasten it's end. It WILL eventually end, but you can help that along by making it very uncomfortable and forcing them to EXPLAIN their actions.

And since he is a PT, who is likely employed by a health club, you have a very powerful tool at your disposal that you are not using.

She can try and justify it all she wants, but there is no justification for having an affair and kicking your H out of the house. As long as you are married, there IS NO rationalization for an affair. An affair is an affair.

Chong, please don't give up so easily. We have seen many marriages brought back from the trash heap with a little stragetic warfare on the affair. You have many oppotunities here that have not been tapped into.

p.s. you probably have the PT's career in your hands and you aren't even using that tool, Chong.

Thanks again for taking time to respond.

Unfortunately the trainer is not an employee of the gym. So nothing can happen to him. I don't know who to tell anyway, other than the owner. They happen to be very good friends and have been for years. It would be like telling his brother. Again nothing will happen.

So that only leaves me with her parents. As I said before, her dad doesn't like me so whatever I say he won't believe. Her mother is the same way although she likes me. She still won't believe anything I say. Especially since I don't have any concrete evidence. So let's say I do tell them. How do you suggest I let them know? I don't feel comfortable calling them. Should I write a letter. What would I say other than your daughter is having an affair. They would ask her and she would deny it and that would be it. I know this is negative on my part but I know everyone to well. They'll only believe what she says.

As with any case there is always more to it than meets the eye. I'll tell you how the whole thing started. About a week and a half before she filed for seaparation I said I wanted a D. Bad mistake on my part. I was extremely unhappy in the M. We both were abusing persciption drugs. (diet pills) I can't imagine she has quit. She is a pharmacist that owns her own pharmacy. I was sick of living like that and I guess blamed everything on her. When in fact it was my problem. (FYI I haven't touched them since and I feel great) At this point I don't think there was an A. We had been fighting and I said I wanted a D. I left the next day bought a bed and was planning on leaving. After I got my head straight I realized I wanted our M to work I knew we needed to change. I thought this would be a wake up call for us. So I stayed at a friends house for a couple of days and went home on a Sunday. Meanwhile she thought I was filing for D so I guess she told her dad and they sought legal advice. I never did at this point. That's when the ball started rolling. I think it started rolling fast and she isn't strong enough to stop it.

So back to the A. How would you suggest I tell her folks? As I said before all our friends know but that doesn't help b/c she has copletely detached from them. Do you think I should try and contact her?

Do you always base your choices on what the response you believe you get will be?

LA

Lovingway can you please explain what you mean by that.

Well, you said "So nothing can happen to him." You don't control the consequences to an affair...they just are. You cannot know what will or won't happen to him, correct?

"so whatever I say he won't believe. Her mother is the same way although she likes me. She still won't believe anything I say." I may be mistaken, but it sounded to me like their choices were affecting yours to expose. Am I incorrect?

Some more examples:

"They would ask her and she would deny it and that would be it."

"I know this is negative on my part but I know everyone to well. They'll only believe what she says."

You even own here that you are choosing to be disrespectful--negative--but...and you put the but in there, because you know what others will choose to do. And that affects your choices?

"She is a pharmacist that owns her own pharmacy." Would you choose to communicate to the licensing bored about her abusing diet pills?

Huge congrats on kicking your reliance on them. Truly. Good job and I know you are feeling great.

Have you gotten to why you chose to do that in the first place?

Same with asking for a D...that doesn't make your WW file on you, nor her father's influence. Each of us chooses, every day...no made-to's involved.

LA

Thaks Loving.

While I was in the shower I figured out what you meant. I'm a little slow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Anyway you are correct about the choices and I should do something. The question is what? How do I tell them? Got any suggestions?

The diet pills are my W problem. Were mine. She is extremeley worried about her weight because she has been overweight before. That was a problem in the end. She is very concerned about her looks. I personally think she might be in a mid life crisis. She recently got a boob job, tattoo and bought a new corvette. (while we were M) So we took the pills to lose weight and got a personal trainer to train us. I was training to. I knew there was a problem when you take the pills to lose weight and I end up gaining. I'm pretty muscular now. I couldn't handle it and that's when I said I wanted a D.

Obviously I had been thinking about it before. Basically our lives got stale. I don't remember everything but I know I wasn't happy. I felt taken advantage of. I did everthing around the house. I cleaned, cooked, paid bills, tried to please her and opened a business at the same time. I was drained and she wasn't there for me. I tried to talk to her and she wouldn't respond. I think she had given up on me. Our sex life sucked. We did spend all our time together. It was just boring. Our last year we were together she stopped communication from our friends. We never went out with anyone. She gave excuses like she to tired or had a headache. She never wanted to do anything. My counselor said he thought since she is a pharmacist people always take from her. And that when she came home she had nothing to give.

When she filed she said that the space would help us. (I know I know) Well it's helped me and I want to be with her again. I just need some guidance. Especially with the A.

I am slow, too...just means when I finally get it, I try harder not to let it go!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Whoa...definitely MLC for your WW. So your decision to say you wanted a D (and I think you're here because that really isn't what you wanted--you wanted to change your marriage), was based on diet pills? See, I am slow.

Or the growing fear your WW was having a MLC?


"Obviously I had been thinking about it before. Basically our lives got stale. I don't remember everything but I know I wasn't happy. I felt taken advantage of. I did everthing around the house. I cleaned, cooked, paid bills, tried to please her and opened a business at the same time. I was drained and she wasn't there for me. I tried to talk to her and she wouldn't respond. I think she had given up on me. Our sex life sucked. We did spend all our time together. It was just boring. Our last year we were together she stopped communication from our friends. We never went out with anyone. She gave excuses like she to tired or had a headache. She never wanted to do anything. My counselor said he thought since she is a pharmacist people always take from her. And that when she came home she had nothing to give."

Another important discovery...you don't see your choices and because of this, you choose to resent.

What is your belief now about pleasing? Healthy or unhealthy?

And that your O&H depended on her response. That makes sense in the perspective you were choosing...not to act unless you would like the response.

There's another way to live.

Are you sure your counselor is good for you? That really reeks what he/she said. You both have a reactive marriage, dependent on response, which leads to entitlement...all are very destructive. All jobs have service in them...all of them. We are a bunch (really big bunch) of humans on a planet serving each other in some capacity. Our perspective matters...the reality matters. We may choose to live in the perspective that we give, give, give and are taken from...doesn't make it any truer.

You had choice, Chong. Still do. I am not bashing you at all...showing you that you are half the marriage...Ownership is the antidote for entitlement.

Let me explain. You chose for your life to get stale. You chose not to go out, make recreational companionship a priority, to talk though you weren't going to get a response; to clean, cook, pay bills and otherwise over-responsible yourself out of a marriage. The more you over do, the under your partner does. The more they feel inadequate, unfit and defective. We rebel against that. Not in healthy ways, either.

Changing yourself is choosing new beliefs and perspectives. Stating you want to save your marriage...relating that you had no idea how GREAT marriage could be, when it isn't reactive but respectful.

You know you create resentments and they have a payoff for you. Find the payoff. Stop creating resentments and really look at all the ones you piled up. Changing yourself changes the marriage. And it ain't over until a judge puts down a gavel, and if you look at around here, even then, people remarry.

Know that you believe in tit for tat...what she does gives you permission for what you do. Break this enmeshment and know that you are separate and equal.

You are not defective, inadequate or wrong. Get to know what you believe and track your history, see your power..which is in owning your choices.

Exposure, eliminating LBs, making love a verb in your life...all of these go to saving your marriage. Changing yourself, though, will change everything.

Hire a PI and search her business records. You are liable, also, for them. Find out information you might be ducking. Send out a call-out, if you are unsure, on this forum for help investigating and proving the affair. This isn't vindicative choices, but ones purely about reality. When you are ready to expose, make it a letter of love...and you have them sent on all the same days...FedEx or something so they are signed for. Expose all at once. Let go response...you are acting to save your marriage.

Affairs die in exposure to light. Go to www.fortysixty.com for info about MLC and what partners can do. Learn about yourself. Tons to do...no more boring. Be careful what you wish for, huh?

LA

Hello Chong,
Re-establishing communication is possible. The objective is to deposit love units and then show change and hope for true happiness. So first, what I have done is to think of what she would like (EN) the different categories Affection, conversation, commitment, loyalty, etc. then I started very low key. E mail: 1 every week with no relationship talk, not even a real question. Expect no answers at first. It is like taming a wild animal. Just addressing common and I stress common interests. Think of what she would like and go with that. What can start as a trickle at first can become a torrent when you have respected her new and evolving boundaries, her feelings.

The tricky part will be to stay within your comfort zone and not prostitute your needs, your values and your integrity in marriage to pleasing her when you start getting communication going. I mean that you must act out of your side of the policy of joint enthusiastic agreement and not just please her. Never lovebust. Get out of any argument rapidly but with honesty and integrity. Caring is the essence. Mahatma Gandy is an inspiration for me.

Think of exposing. It gives you leverage when she will rationalise that you are not married etc. Marriage is a different kind of relationship in that it takes for granted that you can fall out of love and back into love.

Think of saying sorry for your asking for the divorce first, she will say it is too late, but she at least can change her mind about you later instead of what she can think of your attitude.

The basis of marriage is kindness and extraordinary care of your spouse.

Good luck Chong. There is hope for you.

DLK21

Thanks Loving and DLK for the responses.

I will think about what you said and post tomorrow. Hope you'll be around.

Sincerely,

Chong

Dear Chong,

Here's how I told my H's family & boss about his affairs:

1) I called MIL (mother in law) to tell her H is leaving and that I found out he has been having multiple affairs throughout the marriage. H has called her first to tell her he is leaving. She asked if there was an OW and he said no. After my call, she asked him again, and he said yes, once. I told her the names of OWs and only then did he admit to having multiple affairs.

2) I wrote to H's cousin. One that he admires and has recently D'd. Well, I didn't expect that this cousin will in turn tell all other cousins. So basically, his whole family knows.

3) I called his boss at work. This nice man has been encouraging my H to go to church... and I have met him on several occasions. I told him to continue to pray for my H. He has left home and have been having affairs at the office.

Chong, tell them also that you want to save the marriage. No one can fault you for that.

Thanks everyone for your responses.

Let me start out by saying that I take full responsibilty for my part in the M. I always have. I have never claimed to be the perfect spouse. I think at some point the other spouse being my W needs to take her responsibilty in the M too. And she has not. And she will not, I believe, if I pursue her. She is an adult and knows exactly what she has done. Right now she may feel like she can justify her behavior b/c of me but eventually she will/should/hopefully change.

The A isn't the problem. It's a symptom of the problem. Maybe I should restate what I have done about that. Every single person I know knows about what is going on. I've even talked to his friends about it. They had the suspicion before I approached them. So the only people that I haven't directly said anything to are her parents. And they would have to be blind to not see. As for telling them right now this is not the best time. You have to remember I haven't spoke to her in 4 months. I am about to enter a big legal battle against her. In the next couple of days she should receive a letter basically saying that if she doesn't settle the D we are taking her to court.

So for things to move forward I believe she needs to be accountable for her part in the M. When she admits to her part in the M I think we can work on us. But unless she changes I don't want to be with her. She needs to admit to an A, addiction problem and her part in the failing M. As for changes I've made I'm completely different. I was lucky to find this site and another one basically right after I was kicked out. I've been reading for months. I've learned to understand that I played a role in why the M failed. I'm learning.

Another problem is she won't see the changes I've made. If she wants nothing to do with me how do I show her I changed? And I need to know she changed. That's the only way this will work. And like I said before she has to accept her role in the failing M. She hasn't done that and I have no idea if she ever will.

I do know that she understands what has happened. From my previous post our bookkeeper said she is mad. She's mad at me to justify the A and everything she has done. She also sent a postcard to my parents when my relative past away. I quote "I know I'm the last person you want to hear from." That's a sign of guilt I believe. Until the guilt eats her up then she might open up. She knows I didn't want the D. But the way things are going it's inevitabe.

Sorry for the rambleing. Also how do you take quotes from a previous post and answer them on one your writing on.

Chong

Okay, Chong...

If you won't pursue, she can't see your changes. You've left yourself no way to work on the marriage. You can't make her own her part, nor are you willing to own your part to her, because that would involve pursuit, in your eyes.

Her being mad...anger is a secondary emotion. She has a primary one...fear or pain. Anger steps in, you're right, to justify, try to calm her fear, reduce her pain...run from her own emotions. I think you know this scenario well...you're human.

I was in your shoes asking the same questions...when my WH had moved out. Every opportunity I had, that I made, to show him I was changing, I took with both hands. I wrote emails, sent cards, flowers...I owned my stuff and he came back to our home to decide whether or not to leave for OW, himself or work on our marriage, in the mindset that our marriage would be more pain and suffering.

I couldn't change his mind. I had to get it straight, listen and repeat, and cherish the opportunity to be different, in front of him.

You got great suggestions about making contact with your WW...and you choose to see it as pursuing. I chose to call it my road to redemption.

Your choice.

LA