AMEN!!! I AGREE WITH THIS 100%!!!

The chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS on "SURVIVING AN AFFAIR" is my favorite. I read this chapter often as a refresher..A devoted MB..I know... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

These are the the LAST TWO PARAGRAPHS in that chapter..I find these words to be SO ENCOURAGING to ME, PERSONALLY...

P. 178 in HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS...

Your Marriage Will Become Stronger Than Ever

When you have finally learned to meet each other's most important emotional needs, your love and your marriage will become stronger than ever. A person who discovers his or her spouse in an affair experiences one of the most severe blows anyone's self-esteem could possibly sustain. It also begins a constant struggle that puts both partners on an emotional roller coaster. But once they have weathered the worst, they discover they love each other more than ever. In fact, many couples tell me they have built a better love relationship than they would have had if the affair had not jolted them into constructive action. The affair provides the traumatic trigger that finally gets the couple working on each other's basic needs. Once you start meeting those basic needs, your marriage becomes what it was supposed to have been all along.

In almost every case that I have counseled, when the couple has faithfully stuck to the program I have laid down, they have developed a better relationship than ever before. People say to me they can never love or trust a spouse again after that spouse has strayed away in an affair. I know this is not true. It is a long and difficult process to restore the relationship, but it can be done!

------------------------------------------------------------
This was a direct quote from the book. I added the words in bold.

I held on to these words and other information in THIS VERY CHAPTER (which I have highlighted in PINK <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)..throughout My Plan A and Plan B and now during Recovery...

Dr. Harley's prognosis proved true for MY MARRIAGE. This well explains what has happened in our situation...and continues to be true to this day.

This is the primary basis of my POV on this subject...

i believe the hardest thing for me is acknowledging that i was not meeting my H emotional needs....needs that he never communicated to me and i never understood

and then having him refuse to give me the chance....to give US the chance....to make changes that could have saved our marriage

he left....he lives with OW....he never gave us a chance

so understanding WHY the affair happened and WHAT his emotional needs are and HOW to meet them don't make a difference

Understanding and becoming knowlegdeable regarding the PRIMARY EMOTIONAL NEEDS in a ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP will help you in regards to FUTURE RELATIONSHIPS or in RECOVERY with your WH if that happens for you..

I know you don't like this answer, Eav..in that right now you are not planning on future relationships...I am giving this answer for clarity's sake...

i agree with all that you've said mimi

it's just hard to realize that i finally "get" what it takes to have a good marriage.....but i may never get the chance to have that kind of marraige with my h

Again, what ARE you talking about?

But YOU get it. (He doesn't yet; OW doesn't; and they may never GET IT.) That is a victory, of sorts, for those of us looking to validate this low point in our lives. Heck, just comprehending POJA has helped me deal with my peers in and out of the workplace. (Does that make it a win/win/win or a win/win/win/win sich? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> )

Well I read it again and really thought for a minute there I was missing someting.

I was not.

eav, I do not know your situation. Just don't place an undue burdon on yourself.

Some marriages actually end/or take a sebatical because of "they do"

and there is not a darn thing you can do about it.

Look after yourself. You have needs to.


Max

What a interesting discussion. I'll throw my hat in the ring. I think Harley and the MB principles have a pretty good grip on marital happiness and infidelity. I think the EN's are really needs. They are a general representation of the most common things that provide people happy experiences in a relationship. I think happy experiences are the lynchpin so to speak.

When people are born and throughout their lives, they are on a solo quest for experiences. People constantly explore the world seeking out new sights, sounds, feelings. They quickly learn a process for this quest. Observe/Invent, experiment, record the results, and repeat. They also quickly learn some of those experiences are pleasurable and others are painful. Each person has there own definition of what is painful and what is pleasureable, but there are probably some general guidelines and these definitions change over time. Based on these results it is human nature to try and maximize the number of pleasureable experiences and minimize the painful ones. Its a cumulative process and thus happy people have had more pleasureable experiences than painful experiences and vice versa. The possible list of potential experiences is infinate. The list of experiences that will be attempted is only constrained by opportunity, prior results, and one's value system. Peoples opportunities, value systems, and prior resuls are all dynamic and influenceable. Finally, people approach this quest both on a strategic basis (long term plan) and tactical basis (short term opportunity) and generally (but not always) apply a prioritization princple such as Maslows hierarchy of needs. They consciously or subconciously do this all the time.

That framework helps me understand a lot.

1 People, all on their own, are going to seek out experiences that bring them pleasure.

2 What brings a person pleasure can change over time.

3 They will continue to do this regardless of how happy they currently are because they are driven to mazimize their cumulative amount of accrued pleasure.

4 They start with a list that is infinate, and whittle it down to what is available, consistent with their current value system, and consistent with prior results.

5 Their opportunties and value systems change based on prior results.

6 They will experiment.

7 They will prioritize, apply strategy and avail themselves of tactics.

8 They will continually repeat the process.

Now, none of this says people will choose to have an A. This is still a choice among a myriad of possible choices. However, to me, this is the framework for how it happens. IMHO, when you accept this framework, you realize that the A was not personal or an attack on the BS. I think its helpful to realize this in order to begin recovery. Accept your S was not happy. Accept that, like you, your spouse will search for this happiness. Focus on how they can find that happiness with you.

How this relates to MB principles

Point 1 - This is basically the concept of the giver and taker and the stages of marriage (Intimacy, conflict and withdrawal). The taker always comes to the fore front, because people will only deny this drive for so long. In fact, one could make the arguement that the giver is really the taker applying a different strategy.

Points 2 and 3 - Is very much like the love bank concept, EN's, etc.

Points 4 through 8 - All apply to ending an A and affair proofing a M. Plan A is very much about giving your S new and improving prior results with the S, exposure and confrontation is very much about eliminating opportunities for the A and diminishing the prior results from the A.

So will not having your EN's met cause an A. Not neccessarily. But they will cause people to be unhappy. This will lead to an expanded list of potential experiences and a change in value systems. Then if the opportunity presents its self.

Just my thoughts, always open to hear others opinions.

"IMHO, when you accept this framework, you realize that the A was not personal or an attack on the BS."

I agree.

It belongs to the offending party on their solo quest.



Max