You don't know for sure?

Well, his wife would surey have told me when she caught them at lunch together and my wife told me all about it.

She tells me she has no interest in him physically or emotionally, but hey from what I have read here I see a freight train barreling down the tracks at me at full steam and the only thing I have to stop it with is a pointy stick.

What??!! BobPure is really Mr. Cookie?? And I'm Squid?? Why didn't anyone tell me??

Add in backrubs, flowers, and trips to the spa, Dealan-de, and you could have been writing about we Cookies! Wow! We even use the same word -- "thawed" -- to describe what's happening to me.

19... Don't lose hope. Things can change.

I'll let you in on a not-so-secret secret -- Sex between me and Mr. Cookie was awful for most of our marriage. Like once every 2 or 3 months... and not even a "yawn"... more like "Zzzzzzzzzz". But like I said -- things can change. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

For now, I think you are wise not to push her... too many raw emotions getting in the way. But do do nice things for her. They don't even have to be "romantic", just nice. And if you need help brainstorming, just say so (I know it's hard to come up with stuff when you're hurt and your heart's not really into it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />)

I imagine you've already figured out that your shows of frustration and disappointment did nothing but make matters worse, right? That may take awhile to undo. So work on the emotional connection first. Ease into the physical stuff.

Then, after you're sure she has recommitted to the marriage... get her to start posting here... and we'll get her creative... um... you-know-what... flowing.

Just look at Mimi... One silly little suggestion... and she's off to the rodeo!

YeeeeeHawwwww!

smart - I try not to lose hope in this regard and I do realize that my disappointment and frustration didn't work at all. Making things worse is an understatement. It may end up causing me to get a D.

I am willing to give it time (it's already been 18 years), but I think I just have to accept it too. She is just not into it like I am.

19...
The woman has just entered her PRIME. There's still plenty of time to turn this around. Seriously. On a side note, I'm a little concerned about what's happening on your other thread -- all the focus on exposre and you just going round and round and round in circles about it. Either do it and get it over with (which is what I sense your gut is telling you to do) or make a firm decision not to at this time and move on. Start posting about what's happening with your W and M -- specifics -- and let the people here help you with the rest of your plan A.
--SC

smart - Thanks. What do mean by "what's happening with your W and M - specifics"

Do you mean just what is going on between us in general?

If so, I don't trust her at all. I do think there is still contact and it drives me crazy. I have no real proof, however.

We are civil to each other all the time and we talk about our M occasionally. The last time was Monday. When we do, she always says that I don't understand the depth of her hurt and anger from how I treated her for 15 years. I respond that she doesn't understand how I feel about what she did either. We go round and round (nicely) then it ends. We get nowhere.

She never told me about this anger and hurt, by the way, until her EA.

She also will make comments to the effect that she should be able to go to the small group meeting (5 people) where OM will be where the EA started. That the EA (which she says really wasn't one) is over and they are friends and she can handle. I usually respond with let's tell OMW and if she agrees I will too. She says it's none of her business.

So, we have these conversations twice a week or so and the rest of the time we act pretty normal. I try extremely hard not to ever act disappointed or frustrated. Or be "silent". I can be mad, just not silent sulking.

My main problem is lack of trust that there is NC. Accoridng to her, her issue is anger at me that's built over the past 15 years and whether she can get over it.

Other problem I sort of have now is that I am not sure I care anymore. I do care, but only because of my kids. I think that is temporary, but I have to deal with it.

We do have regular SF in one form or another. But it's pretty routine. I guess a lot better than nothing.

You are right about exposure, by the way. I need to do it or don't. I really want to, but I'm chicken. I actually think I will.

Thanks.

19,
Those are exactly the types of specifics I'm talking about. You should repost all that on your own thread, too. I have some ideas for you... and I'm sure those who are much better and more advanced at MB will too... but I have to get off the computer. Darn it. One thing I'll say real quick is... when she tells you that you don't understand how much you hurt her... it's not really helpful for you to respond that she doesn't understand how much her EA hurt you (even though it's true!!!!). You'd be much better off to listen... affirm... ask questions. That's how you'll draw her out... learn what's really in her head and heart... make her feel safe enough to start opening up to you.

You say she never told you any of this BEFORE her A. SOME of that may be because she's now revising history. But I really think BIG part of it is that she didn't dare/didn't think you'd listen/didn't think you really cared! In fact, I'd bet my cowboy boots on it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

--SC

smart - thanks. I would love to hear what else you think when you have a chance.

you are probably right about my response and what my response should be - at least that what she says - she didn't think I cared etc. - just what you said. I can understand that, based on how I acted for 15 years.

I do think she is rewriting some - but only magnitude and extent - I think it's true, just maybe not as bad as she acts like it was.

Interestingly, you seem to understand where she is coming from - i.e. didn't/doesn't think I cared, loved her etc. - based on how I acted, which I admit. Was not true at all, but a logical conclusion from my actions. She has said some things pretty much exactly like you said.

With that being said, I have to ask you: should I tell OMW? (you knew I would get to that, didn't you?) Bear in mind that I don't know of any contact since Feb 21. I have heard some phone calls that sort of imply contact, but it's not conclusive. I am worried what will happen in her current mindset if I do tell OMW and there really has not been contact.

I am not sure I will ever believe there is NC unless I tell OMW. So I sort of think I have to for my own sanity.

If you have already told me what I should do about this, sorry for asking again. You aren't the only one I have asked multiple times, just the most recent!

Thanks.

Does she respect you or are you one of those kind of guys that she can run over? Do you allow her to run roughshod over you and blackmail you with her emotions?

I don't think I allow her to run over me at all - or blackmail me with her emotions - but I am not sure what you mean by that? What do you mean?

I have made it pretty clear that I would like to work on our M, try to make it work etc., but I was OK with D too. Told her I would not consider separation at all - rather D.

Based on what you have seen me do (or not do, I should say) do you get the impression that I let her run over me?

ps. 19, I feel like you are taking a poll until you find someone who will tell you what you want to hear. And I seriously doubt you will find it. Alot of good people spent enormous time and patience on your thread telling you all the reasons you should expose. And you IGNORED THEM. So why keep asking people if you are only going to ignore them?

No one here is going to tell you its not a good idea to expose to the OMW. [if they do, they don't know what they are talking about and are being an idiot] There is simply no good reason NOT TO. I have been here for 5 years and have never seen a legitimate rationalization to NOT inform the BS. NEVER.

Being afraid is not a rational excuse to not do the right thing. Exposing to the OMW is ALL PLUS and no NEGATIVE. It matters not a whit if she hasn't seen him for 5 years, she still has to be told. It simply does not matter if the affair is over. It makes no difference because it is not relevant.

I get that impression, but am not sure. Which is why I asked. You seem AFRAID of her temper, which is usually the sign of a wimpy guy. Do you walk around on eggshells with her in fear of her temper? Do you live for her approval?

ML - You are right to a certain extent - I haven't really ignored anyone yet, however, since I have not given up on the idea at all. I am very appreciative of the time and effort a lot of people have spent and I sort of feel like I have let them down (you most of all) but it's not been ignored I promise. I'm being a wus about it. I admit it.

[quote

I get that impression, but am not sure. Which is why I asked. You seem AFRAID of her temper, which is usually the sign of a wimpy guy. Do you walk around on eggshells with her in fear of her temper? Do you live for her approval? [/quote]

No, I don't live for her approval and I am not scared of her temper - she doesn't really have one. I don't think I walk around on eggshells either - I tell her what I think.

I could see how you could get that impression, however, based on my other posts. I am not scared, but I am concerned about what she might do with regard to our M - mainly because of my kids - that's not what you mean though, is it?

Do you know what BobPure said the day after he exposed to the OMW? He said I was no longer a simpering wimp; I "went from a serf to a KNIGHT." He was no longer cowering in the corner in fear of his wife. With exposure he killed the affair. He stood up, took back control of his life back and SLAYED THE AFFAIR. He is well into recovery and passionately in love today.

His W was mad as ******, but she quickly got over it, especially since she was STILL seeing the OM on the sly it turned out. The anger blew over and she respected him for taking a stand like a MAN. And it scared the ****** out of the OM!

Women respect a man who will stand up and fight for them. And for many of us, our feelings of love are very contingent upon the respect we feel.

Aren't you more afraid of what the affair will do to your marriage? The greatest threat here is the affair, after all. I don't get the sense that you really understand that, though. You are more afraid of her ANGER when she is exposed.

You know what else? Being angry at being busted is the reaction of someone who is NOT remorseful. And someone who is not remorseful is likely not done with her affair. Don't you find it odd that she doesn't want to tell her "friend" herself? Wouldn't you expect that?

I don't kmow if I would expect that - she sort of thinks it would be better that she didn't know - she also thinks (or least says) that it was no big deal ... it has been blown out of proportion ... I don't agree, but that's what she says.

I should be more afraid of what the A will do - but I am not afraid of her anger - don't really care if she's mad - the more I think about it, I am not really sure what I am worried about -

What are you afraid of?

You know what Pepperband did? She made her WS get in the car with her and go tell the OWH HIMSELF at his house. Her WH was also a "friend" of the OWH.

Your wife thinks it would be "better" for HERSELF if her friend doesn't know. She is not concerned about her "friend." Your W is her ENEMY.

Do you realize how cruel it is for your W to consort with this woman under those circumstances?

I am not sure I know what I am afraid of right now actually - maybe nothing. I actually think I am still in shock from the whole thing - I still can't believe she did what she did.

Ultimately, I know I'll do it (you even told me yesterday you knew I would too). I really don't have any choice. I would rather be D than live like this.

And if she wants OM, she can have him, and the crappy life that goes with it - she has a lot to lose - more than I do when it comes down to it.