I have stood up as the spiritual leader of my home and told her what Scripture says. I have told her what God demands. I have told her that she must bend her knee to Him. Not to beat her up with it. But to let her know that she is in a very dangerous place!

Selfish demands in God's name? Be very, very careful, MM. I don't think you see the danger you're in.

***saved and will be updated at a later time***

MM;
I understand that our husbands are our spirutal leaders so it may not work the same as how it worked with my spouse.

During his time of walking the wrong path at first I would show him how he was walking the wrong path, how others would see it and how wrong it was what he was doing. Now as far as I know it was not a PA unless you count kissing which is still unconfirmed from him. However all during the time I kept trying to show my spouse he kept walking down the wrong path even though he himself knew that path was wrong,

It wasn't until I heard "Be still do nothing" that things began to change. It hasn't been until I gave my spouse totally over to the LORD have the changes really started. Yes sometimes I try to take it back knowing that I can really help the LORD with my spouse however I am quickly given a reminder that no, it is not me it is only the LORD that can work in my spouse. The LORD uses me and my pain to help show my spouse but for me to put my hand into the helping is not needed at this time. Maybe somewhere down the road the LORD will use me in a different way.

With my spouse everytime I totally let go, that is when I see incredible work in my spouse happen and I know that it is not me. It took me a long time to give my spouse totally to the LORD and to let him feel the total pain for his actions, because I hated to see him hurt. I would rather hurt than my h. But in order for him to truly understand and to turn back to the LORD I had to totally give him over and that meant not telling him what I thought (which if you know me that is very hard to do). My h has made some incredible steps over the last 6-7 months. He is not totally there and still tends to back track at times. he now admits that he thought he was following JESUS however he now knows that he was walking in the world. It is hard for my h to look back now, and know that, because he thought he was living a Christian life since he was young.

I truly believe there is hope for your wife. I just keep hearing when I read your thread that you haven't totally given her over to JESUS, that you keep trying to help HIM. I could be very wrong it is just something that keeps coming to my mind while reading your posts.

MM, so sorry about this additional trouble, but by being faithful through it you are being refined and purified.

"Just my .02," as a favorite poster often says, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> but to me MM is fully justified in calling his wife an unbeliever. The Bible says, "By their fruits you will know them." His wife is clearly bearing the fruits of darkness.

BUT there is a huge difference between judging someone's actions at the present time, and trying to use those actions to judge where they are going to end up when they stand before God. I would not hesitate to call the current actions of Mrs. MM evil, and actions that show that as of right now she is not a believer, but would never ever ever say I believe that means she will ultimately be lost from God, or that she will not return to him and become a believer again.

God has not given up on her. David committed adultery and committed murder to cover it up. The apostle Paul consented to the murder of Stephen, and was a scourge upon the early Christian church, seeking them, arresting them, and delivering them up to persecution and death. Solomon, the wisest man that ever lived, spent many of his years in idolatry, even after God personally spoke to him. Moses was a murderer. Matthew was a cheating IRS agent. Abraham and Isaac were liars. Jacob was a liar and a cheat. His sons were liars, cheaters, adulterers (Reuben slept with one of his father's wives), and mass murderers, wiping out the men of a whole city. Samson was a womanizing torturer who set the tails of hundreds of foxes on fire to destroy the fields of the Philistines. The list could go on and on.

But in each of these wretched souls, God saw a precious jewel for His kingdom. 1 Corinthians 6 gives a sobering list of things that are very offensive to God, which of course includes adultery. But then in verse 11 it says, "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

We may look at someone now and see an adulterer, thief, drunkard, or any of the other things on that list, AND WE WOULD BE RIGHT, but God looks at them and sees a person who will someday be washed, cleansed, and justified. Someone that He can make holy as soon as they choose to let Him.

So yes, MM, your wife by her admission and actions is - for now - an unbeliever, and must let her go her own way, knowing that God will be beside her each step, pleading with her in a way that you cannot.

Your part in this is what you already know: being faithful, guarding your children, and in prayer standing in the gap for her.

All blessings, and many prayers,
Neak

Mortarman:

I am speechless by this but yet not surprised..

I believe in the POWER of SATANIC forces..as you know..we share much of the same belief system...

I hope you don't mind if I ask you a few questions..



Why are you saying that this does not matter now?



This suggests that the OM could have continued to have been a factor in this...



Again, why are you saying this?



I think this was true of my H during his affair....he was totally the OPPOSITE from himself and seemed demon possesed at times..which makes me wonder why you think that your wife is any different...is it because she was not saved? Don't you think the door remains open for her to become saved?



You believe God is telling you that your wife WILL NOT BE FOUND and WILL NOT BE SAVED? I don't want to question you, MM..but could Satan be telling you this..because of his desire to DESTROY families and marriages...

You certainly seem farther than me in your Christian walk..but how can you be so sure that GOD is telling you this?



I just hate to hear you say that you have given up on her....


Mortarman? What? I will continue to pray for your wife..The Lord says Pray without ceasing....



How can you be so sure? This does SOUND like a JUDGEMENT to me...

I can understand YOU...LETTING THE UNBELIEVER GO..but I don't want to assume that she will not one day REPENT and come to accept Jesus Christ...

***saved and will be updated at a later time***

***Saved and will be updated at a later time***

On the other hand, the worldly part of me says this... about this turn of events...

This really got me to thinking....

If my WH got back with the OW, I think it might be a dealbreaker for me too...

I'm recalling Lemonman asking me this question....

I'm not sure that I'm up for that fight again...

But I keep remembering, Mortarman, that you were the main person who kept encouraging me to FIGHT THE EVIL FORCES and to REMAIN IN THE BATTLE....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

after our second false recovery (and my xh is the smoothest WS of em' all...had me sooo convinced we were fine), when the final d day hit, I was done. stick a fork in me.

And during the divorce he made feeble attempts to come back...it was during the incredible waffling that I went to plan B. he made last final attempt and only responded positively to plan B btw...but he could not be the man I needed him to be in order to remain my husband. sadly he could not.

And when the divorce was drawing nigh, one day, I took a wedding picture. Went outside. And went to a pretty area of my yard where there was a large rock...my son used to go out there and sit on the rock. sometime's I'd sit there and pray. But I just went there. Sat there w/the photo in my hands.

Then suddenly I felt the burden lifting. It was as if God said to me in that quiet moment of reflection that I was to take this unbearable burden finally off of my back.

I gave my WH over to God, got on my knees in my yard, at that picturesqe little spot, and cried my heart out. I went inside, got my candle lighter, and went back to that ara. Prayed a bit more, and then alighted the photo...it burned into tiny pieces...tiny pieces that wafted away. As they wafted away, I prayed for God to take it. take it from me.

There comes a time when even the bravest soldier as you are, knows what must come next.

She isn't there. Not now anyway. Might never be again...but who knows. It's in God's time Mortar.

God's time.

My xh married the ow within 3 days of our divorce signing by judge. One month later, during a scheduled pick up of our son, he cried like a baby in his office saying how much he had loved me, and how he was becoming a dad again...but how sad he was! How truly sad he is. He is lost period.

Your WW is lost period. She doesn't know how to find her way out. And she thinks that TEMPORARY SELF PLEASURE IS THE KEY. Since it is a bandaid on the real problems she faces, this teeny bit of pleasure is used as a bandaid to COVER THE GAPING, BLEEDING WOUNDS SHE HAS AMASSED DURING THIS AFFAIR.

and what I have learned is the WS...the extreme almost prodigal WS lives for the "bandaid moments" when the little bits of pleasure are felt as they are really hurting and in pain struggling to cover up and lie and do all they can do to pretend they didn't do what they did.

I remember him crying...crying with tears down his face. He loved me...said it over and over. But he was so happy now and gonna be a dad again...and that we couldn't look back, but that he would always love me and a part of him be wtih me.

How happy the affairees are aren't they?

Give up the burden. Stand tall. You've done all you can do. Now stand tall. And only do the right thing for the kids now. They need you mortar.

Here was the verse that spoke to my heart during the final days of marriage/divorce: "Therefore put on the full armor of God so that when the DAY OF EVIL COMES you may be able to stand. And after HAVING DONE EVERYTHING, TO STAND!"

It's a promise to you mortar. If you do all you can do, you'll stand...irregardless of legalities or principalities or single or married. You'll stand <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Peace.

You are so right. Each one paid a huge price for their choices. And actually, David paid with four of his sons. He passed sentence on himself, when he said the rich man should restore fourfold what he had taken. His actions emboldened his other sons, so after the baby there were Amnon, Absalom, and Adonijah that were killed due to grievous sins and rebellion.

***Saved and will be updated at a later time***

***saved and will be updated at a later time***

***Saved and will be updated at a later time***

wow, this thread has taught me a lot and made me look at my wh and his sitch in a different way. And now it makes a lot more sense. my wh is so far lost and so far down and living in such sin it is not even funny. And he I know he knows it. But everyone is right, God will still work on him and God will deal with him without me around. I hate to see it happen too. I have watched a fine young man turn into something completely evil who I don't even know anymore. Boy do I get that. I still pray for him. Pray that God's will be done in his life no matter what that takes. But our marriage is completely done. I have tried and tried but, when there has been adultery, I am free walk away. When one may not be saved, unequally yoked, I am free to walk away, I must let them go. I have let him go. I hope he finds God's love again some day and the peace he is looking for. I hope the same for your wife Mortar. You are so much a better person than I. You surely did all you were asked and did it by the book. I wish I could boast of such commitment on my part. But alas, I was not able to do it anymore. mlhb

MM,

We haven't communicated in awhile, but when I first got here you were INSTRUMENTAL in helping me get back on track. I will always be grateful to you for that. Every single time you've posted to me, you've been kind and considerate. And you have always taken the time to write detailed, well thought out, helpful responses.

So please understand that it is with great respect that I feel I have to ask you about the following:


Have you considered the possibility that you've had a direct hand in that? What I mean by that is... I recently came across a summary of your sitch on HTW's thread (around pg 60 I think). After reading about all you did to break-up your W's affair -- the spying, the terms of the separation agreement, and so on -- I thought, "Wow, he really played hard-ball with her. I know she's back with him now... but is she there as his wife, or his hostage?"

Now, I know you'll say that she always had free choice. But at what cost? Especailly when you played the "child custody card". I mean, as a mom myself, I know how that would have affected me. To continue the hostage analogy.. it would be like my captors saying "Okay, you can either stay. Or you can go. But if you go, we get to cut off two of your limbs and poke your eyes out. Your choice." I might just stay, at least for awhile.

I don't know, MM. It almost seems like you dragged her home like a whipped dog. Maybe I'm wrong. But have you considered the possibility that -- if she really is just a shell of her former self -- that your actions may have helped push her into that state?

I also remember you writing something about you, and many others, praying that she would continue to have back pain until she bowed down or something. That also struck me as... I don't know... cruel, I guess. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Like Just J, I don't share your exact spiritual/religious beliefs. So maybe it's almost like speaking different languages... and it won't be possible for me to understand where you're coming from in all of this... or vice versa for that matter. But I felt I had to ask.

Respectfully,
--SC

***saved and will be updated at a later time***

Neak hit some of what I was hitting very well, MM, and I won't try to reproduce her eloquent words.

In terms of selfish demands, WH is quite clear that "educating" your spouse is not good. I believe he called it an SD, though perhaps I'm mistaken and he called it a DJ. I'll go look for the appropriate article and come back with a link.

I would also say that it's a DJ to decide that your wife's actions are controlled by Satan. Perhaps they are -- but you can't know that for certain any more than you know the truth of her relationship with God.

MM:

You and your wife are heavy on my heart today. Even driving my son to preschool I had so many thoughts going through my head on all of this.

You have been very faithful to your wife and to the LORD through all of this.

One thought that also comes to my mind with your wife is maybe she feels that she is no longer worthy of you. That because she has taken the steps that she has that she can no longer live up to the expectations you or to the LORD. So with that she is pushing you away the only way she knows how to do that and she may not even know this. Your wife is a nurse, nurses are known to be very caring help oriented people. They also build this hard area of their life to deal with so much pain in others lives.

I do not know how you have handled everything, one thing I have thought about is that you are former military, mine still is. And what I have found is that when you guys give an order at work it is for a very good reason and is expected to be followed. As with the LORD there are ways that we are expected to live. However maybe through some of this to your wife you have come acrossed as heavy handed or judgemental. And maybe to you it does not seem that way and there may have been times that you were not that way. Sometimes my daughter says she can never do it right, that she always does it wrong with her dad because of how he is, he of course sees it differently. I know for my h that when he was walking in the world if I disagreed with something he did or tried to point it out as wrong he felt I was being very judgemental and that he was on the stand, I was a prosecuter and he was a defendant. Even though I did not believe I was doing that. I felt this is right and this is wrong how could he not see that.

It sounds to me that you are very afraid of letting your wife be totally in the LORDS hands because of the consequences that she may have to live through. I can understand. But this may be what needs to be done to bring her back to the right path. This may be where you needed to have been brought to, a point where you are done in order to let GOD have full control.

One of my favorite verses is Isaiah 40:31, I find resting in the LORD and in HIS time gives me much.

You have listened to the LORD'S direction before, I know you will continue listening now.

A couple of quotes about selfish demands:


The above is from WH's article on SDs, which is at http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3404_selfish.html.

Moving on to DJs, we have the following:


From WH's article on DJs, which is at http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3402_disrespect.html. All in all, I guess what I see is more along the lines of a DJ than an SD, MM.

Either way, though, it's really distressing to watch these things done in the name of God. Really very distressing indeed.

Last quote, also from the same article. Please, MM, you might want to memorize this part.

***saved and will be updated at a later time***