What would you call a man who cheated on his exwife then divorced, a man who cheated on his girl friend to be with me, then he became the man I married and he cheated on me....would this man be considered a serial cheater?

Lady

I doubt if we would have been successful if my FWH hadn't been remorseful.

With each of his A's he thought he was 'in love' with his soulmate. The 1st A was with a neighbor and lasted a month while I was away with the kids on a cross country trip to visit family. He had a bit of the knight in shining armour, wanting to save a damsel in distress with each A.

In each A he was getting his ego stroked and felt like he was put on a pedestal. He got off on the excitment, the high, the attention. He had opportunity and he shut his conscience down and listened to his selfish darkside. He was always a 'good' liar. During his longest A he lied more and more about even the most meaningless things unrelated to the A. I think he felt powerful. Was he narcissistic. Yes, during those times, I think he was. His moral compass was definitely flawed. He was an addict like any other WS.

I had to look closely at my own contributions to our marital problems. I was negative, critical, and had a hard time respecting him. I was never satisfied with anything he did. I didn't communicate appreciation for any of his efforts. I had to always be 'right'. I spent a few years early on feeling lonely and pining for an old boyfriend. My H could never 'please' me. He didn't want to hear my complaints about anything in my life. I had seasonal bouts of depression. I was a SAHM for 1/2 of our marriage. I homeschooled my kids for 5 yrs and got very involved in that movement as well as all activities my kids were involved with at the expense of our marriage.

My H is very attentive, loving, and generous in recovery. He is the opposite of how he was during his A's. Our kids are grown and none are living at home at the moment. We enjoy each other again.

Trix,

Your contribution to the problems in the marriage could have been written by me! I was never a SAHM, but I did let the kids and their activities eclipse the M.

My WH is also like your H in that he always gravitated towards OP's that had troubled marriages. Our M always became worse due to the negative talk prior to the PA's, I guess at that pt. they were EA's. I always suspected he preyed on these types perhaps to "save" them, but more so bc they were vulnerable. This doesn't mean I don't think we had problems, we did and do, they were never addressed (both of us big CA's) and we didn't have a clue how to have a good relationship.

Still trying to learn that one!

to a previous poster...there is a huge difference b/w antisocial behavior (think tim kazinsky) vs. SOCIOPATHIC behavior (scott peterson). sociopaths are not antisocial..well maybe they could be. sociopaths ARE UNABLE TO FEEL OTHERS' PAIN AND HAVE LITTLE OR NO CONSCIENCE. my xh is just that. unless the pain directly affects HIM...it never gets thru.

as far as his addhd? HIS MOM, only a schoolteacher, TOOK HIM OFF THE DOC APPROVED MEDS HE WAS TO TAKE AT AGE 13...she said "the meds made him dull...no spark..he was not like the darth I knew"...thus the MEDS WORKED! and she took him off of it b/c he was no longer outta control with that perceived spark in his eye...

my neice is addhd. and she is on appropriate meds. she would however, interrupt class...be very outrageous and disrespectful to her parents and at inappropriate times...things VERY OUT OF CHARACTER for her...and she is fine now. I think that any condition when ALLOWED TO GO UNCHECKED can cause or add to an already existing problem...

now take a person who is sociopathic and narcissistic and toss in a garnish of addhd? you get my xh...the serial cheater of the millenia!

this is why ONE OF MY MAIN CONDITIONS SHOULD HE HAD EVER ATTEMPTED MARITAL RECOVERY was to

GET HELP FROM APPROPRIATE CLINICIANS for all his issues and work them together for a positive outcome.

he refused to accept he had any p[roblem.

LH:

I am with you. This doesn't make any sense at all to me.....Global approach...WTF is that about? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I am sorry, but I am left less than satisfied with this reasoning. Oh well, such is life.

Lem

Maybe you expose in all the major cities in the world at once?

Wisky Tango Foxtrot! (as JL might say)

-ol' 2long

Well I don't know what a global approach would be, but I would think for a serial cheater to change his spots he would have to get to a place where "the pain of staying the same, outweighs the pain of change".

Maybe if the entire globasphere just refused to put up with his crap anymore...can't get a date, can't go home, heck can't even get a decent cup of coffee.

A lightbulb moment then ensues "what's going on? what's wrong with me? what have I done to my life".

"ah, I need to change my ways"

Seriously though, the spouse alone won't be able to effect change...it'll take providence to do it, so to speak.

by "global approach" he meant more far reaching, all emcompassing.A sc would have to change MANY ASPECTS of his life and environment to protect against a repeat performance. Much more extensive than a one-time cheater who just became addicted to a single person.

I still think that the changes would have to come from within...a change in his core values, which normally only happens as a result of great loss.

You can put all the safeguards in place that you want on the outside, but there is always going to be those crazy rationalizations and justifications which over-ride the simple desire to change.

I think it has to be a profound change in oneself and what they value...an "amazing grace" kind of change.

Noodle said -

"Serial cheaters never seem to *finish* anything. I always get the impression that for them..time just sort of caves in on itself..everything is open ended and all the balls are eternally in the air"

This was true of my ExSO, in his wake he left chaos and much unfinished business, on many differant levels and not just with me but will all his ex's.

I'm not sure that this always holds true. I know personally for myself I am a driven person and complete lots of things. And other men I know in my addiction group are the same way.

But I can say this, there are those with sexual addiction, who fall into the serial cheater category, and many of them have ADD. It's been proven a fair percentage of sexual addicts have ADD as a psychological problem. And since ADD distracts a person from one task to another, I could see why there might be those people who have uncompleted tasks. ADD would probably be the underlying cause.

I had never heard of the possible connection between ADD and SA. My oldest son has ADD, we think inherited from my WS as there is a genetic connection. There is also a coincidence/connection between ADD and alergies as well, so I'm not sure how much should be read into this.

My oldest son just started med's for ADD, we never had him on anything as my mom, who was a teacher, was against Ritilian (sp?) for kids. We found out thru my son's IC when he was 18 the good the medication can do. I still was against it at that time as it can be abused, especially when they are in college. Greg (OS) is now 22 and is on a medication which says on the bottle it is an amphetamine. Still have reservaions, but hope for the best. Greg told me that he read where people with ADD need the brain jump-started. If they don't do this with med's then they create situations and crises in their life to do this. This could then go along with A's and the excitement it provides. Also, people with ADD have a higher risk of using drinking and drugs inappropriately, which could also go along with jump-starting their brains.

I've been encouraging my WH to go to the Dr. re: his ADD, as our sons. WH is currently on AD's, but he still is "spacey" and lacks focus and drive. I agree that change must come from within the person.

Here is the link Sexual Addiction and ADHD that discusses what I mentioned above.

The conclusion to the paper is presented here.

Our research indicates that there is a possible correlation between men suffering
from sexual addiction and ADHD. This research is preliminary and
will need further work. Much more research using valid instruments will be
needed. Our research raises the question of whether or not the presence of
early life trauma could be a factor in both sexual addiction and ADHD. Brain
imaging may be a part of the assessment process, especially in cases that are
difficult to diagnose. Sex addicts who suffer with ADHD will need effective
medical assessment and treatment of it. Sex addicts with ADHD will also
need effective treatment of early life trauma. Without medical and trauma
treatment, sex addicts will be unlikely to achieve or maintain sobriety.
Only male sexual addicts were evaluated in this study. Female addicts
need to be evaluated as well. Long-term studies on the efficacy of treatment
need to be conducted. The impact of sexual addiction and ADHD on families
needs to be considered. ADHD children of sexually addicted parents
need to be observed to see if they have tendencies toward sexual addiction
versus ADHD children of non-sexually addicted parents. Trauma in the sex
addict and the ADHD child or adult must be treated or you will not heal the
wounded heart and spirit of the person.

Exactamundo! Nothing will change unless the person is fully committed to such change. And Dr. Harley did state this.

Ask Me,

I distinguish between serial cheating in general and sex addiction in particular..not all sex addicts are serial cheats and vice versa.

Most serial cheaters that I have been able to observe are unable to *finish* a relationship..or really establish and respect relationship boundaries of any sort and honestly most don't even seem to recognize that they exist at all..my comment was actually meant only to refer to relationships although I can certainly see how..given an ADD/ADHD factor..task related things may also be involved.

I don't think that you would have the deer in the headlights expression on your face if you were told that it just wasn't appropriate to have a wife and a girlfriend and a girl in each town in case you were bored or geographically inconvenienced by the previous choice of women.

I often get the impression that these individuals are "accessorizing" with the people they "date" which is really quite different from having a compulsion or addiction.

My ex-H had several affairs throughout our 20 year marriage, though I never considered him a serial cheater (he even had two OW at once in 1987!).

I have no doubt that his affairs were about one thing more than anything else: His self-esteem. He had none.

I thought I could save him. I couldn't. No amount of telling him how great, masculine, powerful, manly, handsome, or whatever... made any difference. That's because the change, as many someone's in this thread have said, had to come from within HIMSELF.

Had we not divorced, I have a sneaking suspicion that he would have added a few more notches to his belt before his life was over. Actually, the divorce changed him at his core... so maybe he wouldn't do that to another woman/wife now. I hope not. For her sake, as well as his.

I also want to comment on the ADD/ADHD aspect... <deep breath>... in my opinion... as an ADHD adult who is also the mother of an ADHD adult son (who has many disabilities) and step-mom to a teenager with many problems, including ADHD, and finally as a person who has worked with people with disabilities for over 10 years... I believe this: Anytime we use a label to remove responsibility for poor choices we create the potential for excuses. I do not excuse my behavior or attribute it to ADHD... and I did not allow my son to do so.

ADD/ADHD is real... I'm not saying otherwise... but ANYONE with a disability is STILL responsible for their actions. Yes, people with ADHD tend to be risk-takers, for example, and that may color what they are willing to do to get the "high" from the risk... but they could choose to sky dive or mountain climb instead of have an affair.

And as far as sexual addiction: I am NO expert, but I would guess that prior sexual abuse would be a MUCH larger factor in adult acting-out. I could be way off base. There's new studies coming out all the time.

Heck, maybe I'm not making sense at all, but these are my thoughts as I read this thread tonight.

I am curious to know why you want to remain married to this man?

Shoot! Missed hearing Mel on the radio....Darn-it. Wish I could listen while I was at work.

I don't think I could stick through a M with a sc either. It sounds like living with a sc would always be a total nightmare for the spouse. Could you ever really trust a sc? There would definitely have to be some hardcore safegaurds in place.

Like living out in the no-where land. Out on the range. Herding cattle.

Kim

I was one of those "few folks" after WH moved in with MOW. I'd been in denial about A's in the past, but his leaving for MOW tore down the veil of denial about his previous "friendships". Now, after MB, IC, and Al-Anon, I know I can not only survive but thrive on my own. I have a level of serenity I never had in my M and I wouldn't do now what I did then... Live and learn.