I guess I was thinking by removing the spyware and showing my wife that I can trust her that we could work things out.. But now, she changed her password on her computer and I cannot even get into it to so install anything.. I do only have to trust her..

BUT, and a big BUT, if she says it is over to me but still doing crap behind my back, I do not want her back and do not care to fight for her, he can have her... I will trade in my screwed up 1973 model for a fresh 1980 model.....LOL..

I am going to have a talk with her tonight and see where we are at, if she is not willing to give up there friendship I will follow plan A and B and see if it makes any difference..
But from what I did read on her computer when I could, I am pretty sure the A is over and that the OM and his wife are working on them and seeing a MC... So they are working on them and I am 100% sure the EA is over in the aspect it was, my only problem is if my wife is not letting go because she is around him and talks to him...
OM is not a bad person, he is human and asked everyone involved including god for forgiveness..

I still think it all happened for a reason, I am too stubborn to of done anything any other way, so if we can work through this and be happy, I am pretty sure there was no other way....

I do have hard copies of there emails and all there IM's and WW knows it and I have quoted them from time to time and used them in fights..

Quit talking about Divorce- let's talk breaking up the affair.

You and the OMW really need to have a serious discussion. Maybe together you can go to the governing board of the church.

Read up on exposure here on this site- Exposure is necessary.

Do not tell her you are going to expose- just do it

duglas - OM is not a good man - he's a pastor seducing members of his congregation - that's like a doctor and a patient - it's unethical (in addition to being immoral). There is a reason for that - they are in positions of control. Makes a seduction very easy. He's a POS.

Also, get the phone recorder someone mentioned above. Get a digital one at Radio Shack and the stuff to hook it up to your phone. They work great - that's how I caught my W in her EA. You need to hear what they are saying.

Here's the Harley article -

Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

Look at M.S.'s husband. Here he is, thousands of miles from his lover, and yet he still feels compelled to call her. Can you imagine the trouble M.S. would have had separating them if they had not moved? Their move was the best thing that could have happened to their marriage because it not only revealed the affair, but it also set up the conditions that would make ending it possible -- total separation.

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

How should an unfaithful spouse tell his lover that their relationship is over? If left to their own devices, many would take a Caribbean cruise to say their final good-byes. Obviously, that will not do. In fact, I recommend that the final good-bye be in the form of a letter, and not in person or even by telephone.

My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent.

Quit using the emails in fights- quit fighting- that does nothing.

I seriously doubt your wife is telling you the truth if she has changed her passwords, One who has nothing to hide, hides nothing.

If she says she wants to work on your relationship- she must be an open book- you have access to all passwords, cell phone text messages, cell phone records, you will know everything she does in a day.

You will hear from some people that if the A is over there is no need to expose- (OPS MUST ALWAYS BE EXPOSED TO) in many cases that is acceptable- however, with him being a pastor of the church- the elders must be notified as well.

Be careful saying if she is doing things behind your back you will leave her. Most A's don't end that easily.

Here is a link to ways to crack the administrator password on her computer. Don't know what her email client is but she might have changed that password as well.

Get that keylogger back on and don't tell her about it. I have heard that some keyloggers only record the outgoing side of IM - you may want to get the type that take a screenshot every minute or so.

Does she have a cell phone? If so, look into getting the records to see how often she calls the OM.

There are tons of phone recorders available, just ask google. If she has a cell phone, you might want to get a voice activated digital recorder for her car too.

You need to go into full-scale surveiliance mode here. Once you all arrange NC with the OM - and expose to the church - you have to keep an eye on her. She violated your trust and will have to earn it back.

Good luck!

OK duggie - one more time.

Which of the two choices I proposed above do you think is best for you? - and why?

Unless you want to pursue divorce - which I don't think you do - these are your ONLY choices at the moment.

I'll wait for your answer. If you don't answer, I won't waste any more time on you.

WAT

worhtary
I will do choice 2 I will run away from the church and the OM, Not sure if my W will actually do that too, but she will have no choice, OM is in MC and wants nothing to do with her like before, so she will have to do it this way or she must think we are not worth it..

I really do not want to expose OM to the church, that is his job, and the EA did not happen because of what he did, we were all friends outside of church... I do understand that he has the ability to do it again if I do not expose him, but I know his heart, he screwed up and is fixing it with his wife and will be unhappy with her for life before screwing up anyone elses M.

I am of course will to cut all ties with OM if it will help us move on

You must expose to that church - not doing it is cruel to the members of that congregation. I'm not saying you should take a billboard or put an ad in the church newsletter, but the governing board of the church needs to be told.

They are being led by a man who has sacrificed his morals to have an affair with his wife- is that the kind of spiritual leader you want?

Do you think the other members of the congregation want that kind of spiritual leader?

YOU DO NOT KNOW HIS HEART!!!!

YOU DO NOT

He lied to you and to his wife- he is lying to his congregation EVERY time he steps on that pulpit.

WOW, I just thought I could trust her that it is over and work on us, but you all are right, how has that worked for me so far...
I own an IT networking company so if I go anywhere near her computer she will know something is up.. But again, she broke my trust and has to earn it back, and changing her passwords and talking on her cell phone because she thinks I have the home phone bugged means she is hiding something and I should not have worries like that if the EA is over and things need to be all in the open now.. I installed crap on her computer and found out she was doing something wrong, locking me out of her computer after she says it is over is not right and I really should not put up with it..

I did not really want to say too much but he is not the main pastor of my church, he is he worship pastor, just sings and says a pray every now and then....

then you need to go talk to the main pastor

I think that makes it easier - go tell his boss. Get the recorders ASAP - one for home and one for car. Easy to do and cheap. I actually thought that part was sort of fun - in a twisted perverse way....

You may want to read some of my thread - "Need Support ASAP" - I went through some of the same thoughts you are regarding exposure - pretty different scenario, however, but similar too. Ultimately, I finally told OMW this past Monday. W doesn't know yet so I am not sure of the outcome, but alot of people on here gave me lots of advice and guideance that you could use too.

I don't know much myself, but a lot of people on here do - so you should listen to them.

But I do know that you shouldn't believe anything W or OM says - nothing. I don't belive anything my W says. And you need to tell his boss and get him out of that church -

OK duggie - you're seeing the light. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



Huh?

The EA did not happen because of what he did?

Who did it then? Not your wife alone. She can't clap with one hand.

Turn him in to the real Pastor and maybe your family doesn't have to leave this church - as long as OM does.

JMHO

BTW - this being a church has very little to do with how you handle the infidelity. The very same logic would apply if this was a work place affair - or the Wednesday Night Bowling League. What it really means being a church setting is that you have WAY more opportunity for exposure and condemnation of the behavior - and recovery. All under the same roof. There is NO BETTER place, IMHO, to fight an affair. Sadly, ulterior motives frequently take over in church settings ALSO because of the setting - cover ups become more important than practicing what you preach.

WAT

just checking on you

I survived through another day,
More to come

If you need help with the phone recording, let me know. It's very easy once you figure it out. I would get it on there ASAP.

Well, it has been a week since I posted last...

Wife and OM are no longer talking, or seeing each other

WE are working on us, I ordered and I am ready Love Busters.. I tried to get her to read chapter 2 but she has no desire to, she is reading something a friend gave her, not sure what it is.. She says she needs time and space to work on her..

It is almost funny, she wants it to be exactly like it was, with me co existing in the same house with her and not talking to her.. Here I am trying to change and grow and she wants me to act like I was before all this...

Oh well.. At least I got to put my kids to bed for another week...

How do you know that? Are you with her 24/7?

I thought my W had NC with OM too - and guess what? I was wrong. If you are basing that on what your W is telling you, then you need to think again. My W lied to me constantly about contact.

I hope you are snooping very hard and I hope you have exposed. This OM is a slimeball and everyone needs to know it.

Also, maybe you should read the Dobson book "Tough Love". It has some good points.

"It is almost funny, she wants it to be exactly like it was," Please don't take this perspective--it is harmful to you. She has ended her A and as long as there is no contact, will be withdrawn from you. Looks the same from the outside, but totally different from the inside.

If you do not get respect into your marriage...where you own your own thoughts, feelings and beliefs...and she owns hers...then you will feel corroded, used, and something gravely injured for a really long time.

This will be your choice. If your FWW says she wants you back to the way you were before, co-existing, and that is the thriving, fulfilling marriage she has always envisioned, then that will be her truth, not yours. However, she could, like a woman who has beaten a concrete wall with her fists, feet, heart and head...be asking for time to look at herself, the most fearful thing a FWS does, and find out why they did what they did, chose what they chose, and come to a reckoning with their guilt, shame, weaknesses, entitlement, resentment and lack of respect.

You can chose to treat her as an emotionally battered person right now...battered by their own hands and will...or you can judge her, believe she controls you and your marriage. You make the choice to co-exist, possibly out of not having been in and through this experience before...not as a way to live, just a way to live and recover now. Recovery is your personal recovery, her personal recovery and the marriage's recovery.

Your own expectations may break all of this apart again, if you allow them to tell you that you deserve better right now, no excuses. Not within your control. Thoroughly your choice, Duglas...and its an honorable, difficult choice to be betrayed and rebuild.

What LBs are you finding in you, in her, the way it was pre-A?

LA