"" Boundaries in Marriage?""

LA,

is this the books name??? do you know the author...i looked on amazon and couldnt find it...

** never mind the last***

i found the book!!

For me it was a very definite change in my entire being...in how I viewed everything and everyone.

I got to a place and after I read something very profound posted by someone I already mentioned to you that "I realized there was never really anything to forgive, he/she/they had never really done anything TO me".

And it really starts with self-forgiveness. From taking an honest look at yourself, what you have done/not done and forgiven yourself.

It's a journey to be sure, and hard work looking within but what results is a way of looking at yourself, at others, at the universe with a sense of profound peace.

And going back to another comment you made that if anyone truly heals, why are so many people still around, after so many years.

First of all there is always work to be done on oneself, and most of us who have healed or are in relatively good places in our lives and/or relationships feel a sense of indebtedness to help others who are just starting their very painful journey into wholeness, or recovery if you will.

Plus it becomes a habit being here, we make friends, it's often fun, a lot of us live in our heads, we are computer nerds, we like to write and talk about ourselves... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

hey LA,

things for me have actually been going pretty well, with kids and such....it was a good meeting with therapist, not sure if you read my other post...

i was just surfing the posts here and saw you were typing so ill pitch this out to you...whats with all the anger and ticked off people on some of the threads...i guess it goes back to an earlier question....

""i guess im wondering...does the pain ever "really" go away and do you ever "really" heal, if so, why do so many people stick around for so long....""

...and....""when do you know, if you ever do, when you are healed or if forgiveness is from the heart....do you feel different??? or do you just turn cold and stop caring????""


i have been kinda reevaluating some things and coming to terms with "me"....i had to spend some time getting back to basics and realized i had gotten VERY complacent and stopped "growing", so to speak....(not sure if im making sense)...its late and i just got home from work

but those 2 questions keep nagging at me....it just makes me realize that im so much better off, even with my "issues" that im working on, that i did throw in the towel, and not reconcile my M, it seems like a never ending battle of emotions, anger, hurt and just never "really knowing" if the WS is being trustworthy

sturg:
sup man how was the weekend did bust any of my people, aw man.

hope you have a good weekend, brother

i mean't hope you have a good week this week

Sturg,

Re-read Weaver's post on forgiveness. She really has made a lot of progress in her life and it is inspiring to others.

That may be why she's here, ya think? If what we went through changed us thoroughly, and we realized that growth doesn't stop...then staying on MB to give back, check ourselves and learn more makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?

If forgiveness is a task you check off and not a process in your life, then maybe you need to change it from a task to a process?

"realized i had gotten VERY complacent and stopped "growing", so to speak" Makes sense to me...if we look at growth as, "Yep, got that. Okay, worked on that and got that..." then our expectation is to be complete someday from all this growing, correct? That would shuttle in complacency, and then your sneaky self would slip back into what is comfortable, not healthy, and soon you would be back to wondering why you didn't learn these lessons that pop up, wouldn't you?

I have relief, not complacency, when I get something new.

By staying here, giving back and learning more, I don't let complacency enter the picture. If it does, then I know I'm overlooking something.

"whats with all the anger and ticked off people on some of the threads...i guess it goes back to an earlier question...."

What with people's anger? A lot of fear and permission to see it coming from the outside instead of the inside, maybe?

I'll guess...I can't know. It's theirs. They own it.

Yes, pain really does heal...and so the secondary emotion, anger, recedes. They are signals, not our goal. Don't find your fault in your emotions nor chain yourself to them. They are signalling stuff within you about you. Good stuff, too.

I found my goal to change from "not being in pain" to "knowing what pain means" which widened me. Choose your goals. Wording matters. Maybe people are here trying to nail down their thoughts so they can step back and view them?

I know that you being here, posting, makes a difference. I know sharing your internal struggles, talking out loud, changes the world as we know it. This isn't all about you, though I will say again, it is all about you.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Because you didn't know then that you had a choice to save your marriage...though it might not, in the end, have been saved due to you only being half of it...why punish yourself for what you didn't know? You are wiser now, can choose differently...changing the past by sacrificing the present never changes the past...it only weights down the present with what-ifs and if-onlys...

What is there to forgive in yourself for not knowing? When the student is ready, the teacher will appear...you can't fault yourself for not being aware or knowing then...as you are now...you can only commit to staying aware and growing, now.

LA

hi LA,

i just read what you wrote, and its like the "light bulb" came on inside...."complacentcy"...the minute anyone STOPS being aware of complacentcy, or gets tooo comfortable in a situation, thinking "itll NEVER happen to me"....

i see what you are saying....by keeping involved in something, like MB, isnt necessarily a personal crutch or as i asked earlier, "do you really ever heal", but its like "keeping your edge" so to speak....

i never looked at it that way....i got involved here for MY reasons and MY struggles, and it was about ME...but the longer i surf the site, it does sharpen your awareness, that marriage or relationships can have a certain "fragilty" about them, no matter where you are in life...and the "itll never happen to me" attitude can be fatal.....

again...thanks for adding your perspective!!

talk 2 ya soon...

You're more than welcome...how's your guilt, envy, jealousy levels?

Let us know when you have time...share this website with your SO and maybe do a MB weekend seminar thingie.

LA

regarding the jealousy or envy issue....after taking a hard look at it and looking inward, i realized i was having my own pity party of sorts....

theres a saying i heard recently that i think kinda fits my sitch...."does a bug hit the windshield or does the windshield hit the bug, .......the bug loses either way"

sometimes things happen, and people make decisions and do things that make no sense to anyone, maybe not even the person doing it, (like involved in the A)...

ill be perfectly honest here....chatting on this website REALLY opened my eyes and gave me a differnt outlook....

i do realize my earlier "guilt" or sense of failure had to do more with my perspective than my ultimate outcome of my M....i just needed to look at things differently...

i actually spoke to X on phone today, and purposely made it nice and pleasant...i hung up with a smile, kmowing it went well.....

but............im glad i didnt recover my M, i just really question my strength and resolve to stay the long haul...

its not that i dont forgive her, i really do, i just feel some sorrow for her, because i know shes not that happy inside, no matter what she tries to say...and unless she spent some serious time on SELF DISCOVERY and working on herself, (which she hasnt)...i would still be in limbo wondering what my next move would be!!!

anyway, thats how in feelin now.

Congrats on the new perspective...I think it fits really well. Good choice.

"i just really question my strength and resolve to stay the long haul..."

Now, 'splain this more, Lucy, 'k?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

one word..."PRIDE"

whether or not this was/is a good thing, there became a point when I knew, that i had had enough and too much water under the bridge, so to speak...

there are issues in my X's life and her past that i know see as contibuting factors...low self esteem, selfishness, coldness...(black hearted)...that unless she worked on them and truely repented...NOTHING would have changed...

so, i lost my resolve and took a hard look at myself and realized, althouh i loved my X, and it tore me apart, i didnt want to re-engage in a treacherous, potentailly dangerous M....

to this day.....she has not done a thing to change herself, from the inside, conversly, just sinks further down and its "all about her"...

when we were M, i look back and realized that there were red flags that i chose to ignore and lived with, that now, i would not tolerate...her selfishness was evident in so many areas...i was blinded by the "complacentcy" that we talked of earlier....

i loved her and provided for my family....she looked at me as just her "roommate"....

thats why i didnt have the resolve or strenghth to stay the course and try to salvage a M, that a few years dowm the road, i would most likley be repeating the same vicious cirlce....(i know there are no guarentees in life)

i am saddened, that so many people struggle for so long to recover from an A, and yet afetr so long, they still fail...and yet some are so sucessful....i applaud those that are!!! (but it takes two)

i know now who i am, my life is better in so many ways, especially in regards to my relationships with my kids....i look at it, that if i had to take 2 1/2 years to grow and change, and in the long run my resolve was to be the parent i needed to be and work on some destructive behavior that I RECOGNIZED through this sitch....

then my X was worth the sacrafice, and she has become responsible for her own actions and failures....

was that a "rant" or explanation??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Gosh, I can't tell which it is, Sturg!

I thought the quote I asked about was present tense...entirely.

Is it? I just can't tell! LOL

I pretty well get these points because you've repeated them...that means they are important to you, and I need to acknowledge them:

Your wife hasn't changed
You're a better parent than before
You feel great about your life now
You do believe you did the right thing
You have grown a lot and continue to grow
You know your limits

LA

yeah what sturg said or was it knowledge of "self" that you've gained.

WHO KNOWS anymore.....its all a blur!!! LOL.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


of course i think thats its knowledge of "self"....

you cant go through something as life altering as an A and its aftermath and see things the same way....

sure....i was a BS...but i also did many things post A, that im ashamed of, now that i see things in a different light than the different light that i was looking at in the different light that i was looking through before...whew!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

was THIS an explanation???? (im in a wierd mood 2day) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

"was THIS an explanation????" he rebelliously explained.

LOL

Weird is cool. I like weird.

Sounds like your pad is well lit. Lots of different lights.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pad. I said pad. Gosh, I'm old.

So, do you feel able to commit for the long haul...or is there self-doubt about.

Now I'm just tired and silly...don't make me rhyme. You won't like me when I rhyme.

LA

howyadointoday....LA???

hows that for a rhyme???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

the long haul....just getting through this ordeal, keeping a smile, laughing, maintaining great friendships that have endured through some tough times, RAISING a teenage daughter...(you know about teenage girls)!!!

i had self doubt during my X's A, whether i could weather the storm.....kinda felt like "why should i keep getting my old car fixed, when i can just trade it in for a new one'??? (unfortunatley life is not that simple)

maybe thats something that all WS/BS face many times during the A....on both sides.....

this afternoon while i was running some errands...i was thinking that the difference between love/hate is a very thin line....maybe the same for resentment/foregiveness....

can you forgive, but still hold onto resentment????????

or does the resentment eventually fade in time, after you truley forgive?????

i believe that you can forgive, but resentment, hurt and disappointment are natural emotions, like jealousy and envy....if i belive the bible.....i am compelled to "forgive", but can i still resent someones actions against me???? what do you think????

i know WE all make mistakes....like the saying..."when good dogs do bad things"...you dont get rid of the dog, you just "re-train" the dog...do we re-train our thought process or do we just will ourselves to "get over it"???

i told you i was in a wierd mood...now im asking some deep questions!!!

gotta go play basketball with my son....ill talk to ya later!!!

Hmmm...

I look at resentment as self-created. I see forgiveness as accepting self and others as human. You raise an interesting idea about resentment/forgiveness like love/hate...

I dunno.

I know that I purged myself of resentments...20 years worth...and have more to go. I know I did it as an act of love for myself and my DH. Choosing to resent pays us in some way...finding that payoff is essential to erasing resentment. Could it be the same for forgiveness?

Find your payoff in forgiveness...compare it to the one in not forgiving? Would this be close?

Hurt and disappointment...well, disappointment is what we do to ourselves, also. Comes from our own expectations...wishfulness...desire to be safe. LostHusband said that expectations are premeditated resentments.

What do you think?

If you remain in the frame of mind that life would have been grand had your WW not chosen an A over her marriage...and I don't believe you do. You realized her own struggles and problems, within her...so what resentment are you holding onto? That you accepted her as she was, warts and all, and she still broke the marriage to heck?

That she did this to your children? Or to you?

What actions were against you? WS's don't act against their spouses...they act for themselves. Hardest part of betrayal is knowing you didn't factor into their equation--and it is a foggy, messed up equation, so I don't see the loss there. Actions weren't against you...but in spite of you. Your belief that your history, love, presence, dedication would prevent her from doing what she did...and you know she's not happy and has to live with that...like learning too late not to burn the house down because you had a thread hanging from your jacket.

The house got burned down, anyway.

Could it be the razor handle of judgment kicking you still? Can't hold judgment without slicing your own hand, can you?

I don't believe in brainwashing ourselves to soothe...discovering is the honest way, the one with character, like in your quote. Discovery with acceptance, owning your judgments, payoffs, and dreams...which would be harder...to realize your dreams were disrespectful or your spouse?

LA

ok.....you gave me a bunch of stuff to ponder.....(i knew you would)!!!!

ill get back to you on this.....you smell smoke????? (im thinking)!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

good day...LA!!!

ok...look at this i may even answer my own question about resentment...i was reading a book this morning....and look what popped out and slugged me in the chops!!!

its kinda long but heres the part.....


""Now you must understand: Forgiveness is a choice. It is not a feeling, but an act of the will. As Neil Anderson has written (whoever this is..) "Dont wait to forgive until you feel like it; you will never get there. Feelings take time to heal after the choice to forgive is made". We allow God to bring the hurt up from our past, for "if your forgiveness dosent visit the emotional core of your life, it will be incomplete". We acknowledge that it hurt, that it mattered, and we choose to extend forgiveness. (this is the part i liked...) This is not saying "it really didnt matter"; it is not saying "i probably deserved part of it anyway". Forgiveness says, "It mattered, it was wrong, it hurt, AND I RELEASE YOU"......""



it was pretty powerful to me....i think that resentment and forgiveness are the same...you cant do one without the other...its like being angry at someone...the only one you hurt by resentment is YOURSELF!!

whatdoya think????