You said PT are always in demand... So you are saying quit my PT job and get a new PT job? How would that make a difference. It would be the same scenario different place <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for your input on the Meds.

I know what my wife is doing isn't verbal abuse. I know she is in a lot of pain and it is my fault. I just vent a bit on here when I am writing...I am aloud to do that right? I guess I better start watching what I say since every time I say anything negative about my situation posts start coming out of the wood work about how wrong I am or that I "just don't get it". I guess as a FWS I will be watched and the second I offend someone or vent about my situation I will be judged. O-well I know I am doing the right things because at counseling yesterday she even said "my husband is doing everything right, I just have a hard time accepting it" . So thank you to all the MB's who have gave me their valued input and helped me thru this to get me at a place where I to be able to hear my wife say , I am doing everything right.

Oh dear. We have much work to do my friend. Please don't take this as my preaching to you (others on here have accused me of this), I just really want to help you, and in turn help myself (that's difficult to explain, maybe another time).

First, those are not exactly your wife's top 5 EN's according to the Harley principles. The only ones that count are contribution to household chores (called Domestic Support by Dr. Harley), and this isn't even accurate because Dr. Harley includes other domestic taks such as raising of children. You get credit for Honesty, if indeed you are being completely honest with her (called Radical Honesty by Dr. Harley - look it up). Finding her attractive is also a Dr. Harley EN, but it would be one of YOUR EN's. I'm guessing she doesn't care as much about what you look like, as you do about her attractiveness. And her need to have you say things that make her feel attractive is actually the EN for Affection. Committment to her is important, but not an EN. Same with making her your priority, very good idea, but not an EN. Short of begging you, I don't know how else to place the importance of reading His Needs/Her Needs by Dr. Harley. Then read Love Busters. Don't give me any bull5hit about not having time. Speaking of time, are you at least attempting to get 15 hours a week of alone time with your wife? You wanna talk about a difficult thing to find time for! It is, but man does it ever make a difference. My H and I feel absolutely crappy now if we don't get enough time together during a day, much less a week. You will learn so much more than you know now, if you'd just PLEASE (there, ya got me begging, happy now?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) take the time to read these books.

Your "plan," to be honest, sounds half-a55ed to me. Words are just words, actions speak volumes. Doing the laundry is a start, but especially if she isn't in the mood to talk to you very much, buck up and REALLY start DOING things! She will SEE your committment, which makes more deposits for most people than simply hearing words. If she gets basically the same phone message from you every day, it begins to lose it's power. I'm telling you that as a female friend, okay? Why can't you tell her those things to her face? Hmmm? Don't tell me she won't stay in the room with you long enough to hear these words. Bull5hit.

Geeze, I'd better get ready for work. Hope none of this was too harsh, I seriously just want you to be ready for battle, 'cuz that's what this is ya know, a war to get her back. Fight for her buddy, fight to your death (figurtively speaking, of course!).

Now, onto less serious matters. American Idol ROCKS!! So I've replaced one addiction with another, oh well! At least it's something my H and I do together! I'm gonna have to go with Kathrine to win it all. I believe Elliot has improved greatly (especially his looks! how shallow am I?!), but I just don't like his voice. I think Paris is awesome, and under-rated because of her age. Can you believe how mean the judges were to katherine last week? I swear they do that intenitonally to make the votes more even. Sick.

I will try to remember to talk to your wife about AD's. They can be very helpful, but it has to be the right drug in the right dose, for every individual.

Hope you had a restful night and are ready for today's fight!!

All my best,

KJ

Iamsosorry,
You have brought me out of lurkdom because you are driving me CRAZY!
First off, I'd like to thank all the wise people on this board from the bottom of my heart. My husband and I found out about this site after reading HNHN. I check this site almost daily from work and have learned so much. Our marriage is 100% better now, so thank you everyone!
So, I've been following your thread and I really like you and CO. But, I don't think your marriage has much chance until you get real. get ready for the 2x4

Ok, this is what is bugging me, you tell your wife that OW wasn't as pretty, she wouldn't measure up to your wife, and so on. This is most likely killing your wife and here is why.
1. Its condescending and patronizing. It sounds like telling your kid he's the best football player after he lost the game. Your wife is a smart cookie, telling her that she's the bomb after what happened is only rubbing salt in the wound.
2. It sounds like you're still lying and I bet you're wife thinks you still are because: a.)If OW wasn't hot, then why did you take off your ring and pursue her? Then, pursue her again via e-mails. OR b.) OW wasn't so hot, but you routinely take off your wedding ring when you're away from your wife and she's just the girl you caught, which makes you a player. OR c.) you're felling bored with the marriage and wanted to try something/one new, so planned to take off your ring and OW was the girl you caught.

I'm not saying this to be mean, but come on!! Put the shoe on the other foot...your wife is out of town, takes off her ring, flirts with a guy, then proceeds to do everything you did... Would you feel better if her explanation was that you were really the bomb and she would pick you over the OM any day? I think not. The fact is...YOU BETRAYED HER...She's not going to get over this anytime soon. My fear is that if you don't fess up to the truth, the real truth, then she is gone.

I don't think that for a second. I will admit I do think that of other posts I have read from other members but for some reason I can accept your opinion ...good or bad. I think it's because I really do believe you want to help . And I will listen to every word you tell me!! I am so Thankful Kiwij asked you to get involved. There have been a few MB's who have gave some valid input but You,Kiwij, and Gladtopresson are my "Dream Team" to make me a better person and ultimately a better husband! With you I have that person who smacks me in the back of my head and says get real stupid. With kiwij I have that person who makes me accountable to what I need to be doing . Then with Gladtopresson I have that person who motivates me to continue down the path I am on and reminds me that I am not where I should be but I am going in the right direction. Thank you all very much for your continued help and guidance!

Now let get this post going ... I figured they weren't. I was going by a work sheet our MC had up fill out it was called "My need from my Husband". There were about 25 needs and we had to circle the 5 that we feel we needed from our spouse. You have to give me a little credit for the fact that I remembered them and am trying to fulfill them.
Hey just relax... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> No need for that kind of language <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I will definitely find...no I mean MAKE time today to check out the Harley EN page. So I will better understand what I need to be doing.
Yes, I am trying. I get shot down a bunch of times but I keep trying. She just does not have any desire to be alone with me right now. She says it reminds her of me and the OW alone and what did we talk about. I respect her feelings and usually try to figure out some way for us to be together but in a way where she can feel comfortable and hopefully little by little that wall between us will begin to chip down and we can actually work together at this marriage, Right now it seems like we are both working for the same goal but from two different side and eventually we will meet in the middle and work together as a team. Know what I mean?
No I am not "happy now"...I want you to say pretty please with a cherry on top!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I will look into your suggestions. Do you realize how many books have been suggested. I am currently reading "the purpose driven life" ... "Relationship rescue" and my pastor just recommended , The four seasons of marriage". So you see I have to finish one book before I can start another . But if you feel this book is a major necessity to my journey at this moment I will stop the "relationship rescue" and pick up His Needs/Her Needs by Dr. Harley. Then ,Love Busters.

I hear that !! I feel the same way.

I think Kathrine is the top girl, but who do you think is the top guy? Think about it every year it always seems to be one guy and one girl. Except for the Ruben and Clay season. Unless you wanna count Clay as the "girl" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> LOL!!! So who is you guy? As for the judges being harsh...it's all about ratings. Just like when you see a Great singer in the bottom three. It's all a gimmick to make it seem like you never know whats gonna happen and no one is safe but the reality of it is some of the younger teens actually fall into this trap and make those phone calls. I think Paris is alright but she is still young and has her whole life ahead of her. She does not even need american idol with a family history of singers like she has. I am sure they can get her a deal easy. I think winner to be someone who would not have made it with out american idol. Know what I mean.
Well it been nice, chatting. Thanks for you time that you take to write. I am sure there are a million other things you could be doing but you take the time to help, not just me but my wife too and on behalf of both of us... THANK-YOU !

Thanks for you view. I understand where you are coming from. I don't walk around telling my wife she is better than OW. I say it when I feel it is necessary. In the past when she is venting and questioning me..It would end with her saying , "ya know all I wanted was to hear you say I am better(prettier or what ever the problem is) than the OW". So you see I am just doing what she needs me to do at those times . Also in a previous post I want to comment on the phone calls I make to my wife at work aren't routine. I try to be creative and put thought and effort into the things I do for her. I also don't just call /e-mail those words of affection I always tell her face to face as well. Well I really gotta get going I just wanted to quick reply to why I tell my wife she is better that the OW. I am not trying to play with her head. I am just doing what she asks of me.

I'm glad I didn't offend you, its not my intent at all. I just wanted to give you a woman's perspective on how those words sound. I would feel manipulated if I was told that.

She may have told you that she needed to hear you say 'I am better, prettier, etc.' than the other woman. But I think she really means she needs to believe you truly mean that she is better. That is different than words.

You are on the right path, but, give her time. My husband sent me flowers to work every day for 2 weeks after our falling apart. My coworkers thought he was the best husband on the face of the earth. I felt mad! He would leave little love notes for me everywhere...they made me mad. It wasn't until I was ready to move on with our marriage and accept his love again that I appreciated his efforts. But, that said, he never let his impatience show with me. He just kept on showing me throught things he did that he was there for me. So, be HONEST- please don't try to save her from heartbreak by omitting things!!-and keep on trying to win her back. I'm rooting for you guys.

Wow , so I am not the only person in the world who reacts like a kid to drugs ... Glad to meet you - the next time my doctor starts teasing me as he prescribes a pediatric dose of something - or tries ro haggle with me to persuade me to try anything he offers, I will tell him I am not the only one - lol.

SP

Just be careful what you say, as what you say to us is what you say in your head, and that is what you beleive - we beleive what we hear, over and over in our mind. Change your expression and you will change how you feel about what is happening.

I had to do it, my WH is still working on it, and he fooled around making excuses that he could think or vent whatever he wanted for 4 years. Now he has changed the dialogue in his head and when he vents, I can feel the change in the atmosphere when he is around - I hated him sending me lots of cards full of sappy sentiment or leaving my kissy meaaages - it was like laughing at me - thinking he could do that and I had to change - it is how you carry what is inside you that makes us feel safe - not the lip service.

SP

Ah, ya, that was me fella! Your point is made, good job, keep it up.

Pretty please with a cherry on top.... just temporarily, put those other books aside. Since you are on this forum, I believe you would gain so much more from other's insights if you have read Dr. Harley's books. Do you need me to order them from Amazon for you?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> How patronizing it THAT?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Chris is my man. Say what you want, Elliot just doesn't have "the look" factor. Still think Kat will run away with it though.

Later dude,

KJ

No, no, no, no. Don't get defensive about people's genuine care and concern.

It was here on MB that I learned to look at what I had done. A dose of reality never, never goes astray.

Listen to people's words - they are not attacking you. Everyone so far has given you very, very, very good advice. Nikko is a good friend of mine from Idiotville. She is wise and funny and doesn't mess about with making you feel all warm and fuzzy. She's there to help.

imsosorry---i am not judging you....quite frankly i dont have the time in my life to judge you.....i was trying to help. if you would rather i dont post to you you could have just said so. the biggest thing that will help you is the understanding of the bs mind. unfortunately i cannot pretty it up for you and make it smell like roses. it is an ugly, cold, dismal place.....the darkness of it swallows you at times. your wife is fighting for her own life and reality right now. a battle you have no idea about....i just thought i could help give you the other side of it. and yes....i am blunt at times.....but unfortunately in my life, or fortunately, depends on how you look at it......i really just dont have the time to pretty up every answer.

oh and ps.......if what i said offended you....you really need to thicken up your skin.....cause brother when your wife really starts healing and truely hits the anger stage......its gonna hurt. lol

Whoa there Nikko!

I just re-read this thread as far back as I could, and am not seeing any response from imsosorry that would cause you to respond the way you just did. Care to clarify?

KJ

I just want to say I will not be able to post much today because I will be spending a majority of my time reading up on Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts and finding the books you suggested. I spent so much time last night trying to print out the EN questionnaire but no luck for some reason my printer kept getting an error message. So I am having my wife print it out for me from her computer at work.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I also want to report that my wife and I had a fantastic evening and night yesterday! Normally on a Thursday we would watch survivor(if she wasn't angry with me) as a family with the kids but we were both a little tired. She was laying on the bed as I was putting the clothes away that I washed and so I stopped doing the wash and laid down with her . We had a very good talk. We even had a few laughs together! I then asked her ...since we are both tired how about we put the kids to bed and I sleep in our bed with her and we can continue talking. She said that was a good idea . So we put the kids to bed and turned out the lights and just relaxed in bed together talking. I held her and we kissed and had a really nice intimate night. The good feelings carried over to this morning . I wasn't sure what this morning was going to be like. Usually I tell her good morning and hug her since she wasn't comfortable kissing me but this morning was different. After I hugged her she kissed me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Well hopefully this is a step in the right direction. For her I know it was a huge step! Well we'll see how things progress over the weekend.
I will touch back with everyone later . I have questionnaires to go read and books to buy...C-ya!

What a wonderful evening and morning for you two!

Those are just the kinds of things that, with consistency, will rebuild the connection between you to and make her feel safe with you. Let her lead the pace, as it sounds like you have been doing.

I am so very glad that you are pursuing the HNHN book. I think its definitely worth setting down the couple you are reading now. I think you will get through it fast, and hopefully CO will be willing to read it as well.

I remember very specifically the first time after d-day that I allowed my H to comfort me physically by holding me which led to a kiss. It was such a renewal kiss, very full of meaning.

The process is so painful, but it will reap present and future rewards big time if you stay the course.

As it sounds like you two are Christians, I encourage you to daily and moment by moment call upon the Lord to sustain you and guide you, and continue to bring you tangible help. There is some wonderful soul-baring by David in the Psalms after he commits adultry with Bethsheba. It may comfort you to see how David lays out the anguish of his sins to God and how God continues to love and comfort him through it. If you want me to give you specific passages to look at, just let me know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It seems funny to think you can establish genuine feelings for people over a posting board, but I really care about you and CO and feel such hope for you two.

Don't be discouraged if there is a setback in her mood after this great night and morning. The emotions will still be up and down...for awhile it may continue to be two steps forward one step back, but as you can see, you will still be moving in a forward direction.

It sounds like CO has made a bit of a breakthrough and that is wonderful. It will be healing to her to have been able to tap into that tenderness of self that she experienced last night and this morning with you. It sounds like taking dd (dear daughter) to work with her did a lot for her spirit.

Keep up the good work!
Always Blessings,
Glad

WAHOOOOOOOO!!

Oh my gosh, I am so thrilled for the both of you!! I am going to tell your wife the same!!

And good for you on the books! I will let you off the hook today for posting on the forum! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Keep up the good work fella!

KJ

kari---i did not post that in an angry manner. i usually use the quick response and there are no smiley's to use there so i guess depending on the mood of the reader it could be mis-judged. however sosorry has posted about being shot down and made other references to people shooting him down. not my intention but.....if all he is looking for is praises and atta boys......its gonna be a long road. i asked a question yesterday and he still hasnt answered and i get the feeling he is ducking the "hard" stuff. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> see im smiling..... no malice meant....but this is hard work and a really rough process. a view from the other side is always helpful but not always welcome.

Boy do I know this!! Works both ways, as you know.

Rule #1 - Don't EVER use the quick reply when posting in one of my threads. I ABSOLUTELY need the smiley faces!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> LOL

Thanks for the clarification Nikko. I just hate spats and wanted to be sure we were all okay.

Have a wonderous weekend!

KJ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

P.S. imamsosorry is busy reading HN/HN today, per my orders <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />, so he won't be on here much today.

how about we do this.....i will continue to post in the manner i am use to.....and you will just have faith i am not being mean. lol

plus....ask anyone....when i am being harsh and verbally blunt....the intended knows it...there isnt ANY mistake! lol
but all is done in love and understanding....ive been here a looooooong time. plus....i dont do spats.......

O-kay, I will try to be open minded about your posts. I was just a little bothered by some of the other MB's that were quite when I originally asked for help and now they want to post every time I don't do things by the book. I can and do accept constructive criticism. I know I will not like every post I read but when I get posts from people who only post when they want to tell me what I am doing wrong that sort of bothers me. If someone truly wants to help they will be there during the ups and downs. What bothered me with some of your post in particular was the fact that I could write a three paragraph post and you would not make a single comment on what I am doing right but you would always seem to find that one thing that I did wrong and exploit it. See the quotes below...

Here you want to comment that the way I was feeling to you was "BS"

Here you were telling me your interpretation of what I wrote. I am o-kay with you letting me know how a BS would interpret it but once again , nothing positive or guidance. Just your opinion again of what I am doing wrong and what YOU think of it

This is the post where I wrote to KJ what I planed to do for my wife the next day to fulfill her EN and all you commented on was my venting!

After this I decided to not reply to your posts because now I am "frustrating" you. I figured if I am frustrating you maybe you should stop reading my posts. But I didn't tell you that because I do want you opinion it's just that I would also like to hear some words of encouragement or a good job . Is that even possible I wonder? Look back on every post you wrote me and see if you give me any kind of motivation. You will see theres none! I said this many times already I can and will accept constructive criticism but only from those that tell me when I am doing wrong and then tell me something positive to take with me and learn from, I don't want to lose your opinion on this matter but it's hard to accept it when It seems to only be one sided. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

*****Hey KJ I have to get ready for work now so I will touch back later tonight or early tomorrow. Good luck on your new thread, Hope you get what your looking for.

Believe me, Iamso, opinions from both sides are essential and as I've said before, Nikko is very, very cool.

It's silly to get carried away with who's saying what anyway. The important thing is to keep moving forward. Your closeness sounds like a very good move forward for both of you.

Iamso, this process takes a long, long time - 2 years probably to get to a happy, trusting relationship again. It can't be swept away and it won't just "go away".

While you're reading, you should read all the material on the main website again if you haven't already read it. It's very, very good and very non judgemental for the FWS. It's why I joined MB.

I'm also thinking of you both. I like you both very much and want to see you working together again not pulling apart.