IASS,

Good Call! My WW gave OM carnations, I used to liek them I now hate them. Odd but I can't help it!

Knowing that, I'd stay away from the flower thing altogether then. How 'bout a little stuffed animal, holding a card? You're gonna think this is so strange (but hey, look who you're talking to!), but whatever you do, don't get her a single carnation. Roses are rich and beautiful, carnations are cheap and for funerals. Just practicing my radical honesty pal!

Good luck tonite! (Oops! Was that too encouraging?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> LOL)

KJ

P.S. Would she ever accept a massage from you? Maybe not today, but sometime in the future?

Ok, I am then think about this:

What are you going to do to ensure your W feeling safe? You don't have to answer right now but think about it.

Iam, I posted this on your W's thread too What the WS/BS must do to recover

you triggered her by exactly what faith said....you weren't available for her. in her mind you NEVER put off ow....in fact you jumped through flaming hoops to get to her and talk to her.....then when your wife needs you....you put her off......big mistake.

i am not gonna ask again for your story...YOUR WIFE DESERVES IT FIRST. i read her thread and she doesnt have the whole story or the truth yet. i will assume you are gonna get it over with and tell her....right. one thing you need to realize is she will imagine everything and anything way worse than whatever you did anyway!!!! TELL HER!!! get it over with and tell her....you are killing her with a thousand cuts instead.....

scale back on the flowers and gifts....i know you mean well but she isnt ready. sosorry....give her a real gift...give her the truth. give her her history....it is hers also. that will go further and farther than anything else you will ever do.....it will be horrible at first....but she will heal...and so will you. give her the gift of truth....

Sorry,

Here's my post to your W tonite. Hope you find at least one thing helpful. Good night and God bless,

KJ


Okay, I know I'm an FWW, but i do have some thoughts for you that might be helpful. What SH had my H and I discuss about my A, was this. He had me give my H a "timeline" of when things occured during my A. He said to leave out the gorry details, that my H never needs to know the gorry details because this does not promote healing. Anyway, I just told him when I first met the OM, who he was (name, city of residence, where he worked), how I met him, when and where we would meet and how often. I came clean about an overnight I spent with OM while I arranged for my kids to be at a friend's house. I gave him other specific times I was with OM, that I knew my H could recall me being gone. My H said this was very helpful, and that he didn't want to know the gorry details. Just something for you to consider doing together, it was helpful for us.

Radical Honesty does not mean you need to know everything that went on. It means your H should answer any and all questions that you have. If you want to know the gorry details, then he should answer your questions about them. The whole agreement, is that you are asking the questions, he answers them. If you don't want to know the answers, don't ask the questions!

Doing everything with him is the perfect thing to do. My H and I are still in that mode, and I have come to love it. I'd forgotten how much I used to like spending time with him. It's not a burden anymore, it's something we both look forward to. Your H should agree to do this for you, no ifs, ands, or buts. And I AM talking about even trips to the grocery store! One of my H's worst fears, is having me run into the OM when he's not with me. Well, if he's always with me, he doesn't need to have this concern, and for me, it's worth that.


Quote:
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And I asked him if he was happily married when this happened and he said yes. Can anybody explain this situation to me?



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Yes. He very well could have thought he was happily married. But still, he allowed someone else to make deposits into his love bank, to meet his most important EN's. As SH has told me, it IS possible for someone to love two people at the same time. Now doesn't that just suck!! BUT.... he's chosen you.

Your H really does need his EN's met at this time. I know that sounds just horribly selfish, but trust me on this one, 'cuz I do have experience with this. As much as you are hurting, as much as you detest him at times, please try to remember this. Otherwise, it's just a vicious cycle of you not meeting his needs, so he's not gonna meet your needs. If ya think about this cycle, isn't it so very childish?! I can't believe my H and I have spent 16 years doing this very thing!

Don't beat yourself up for "falling behind again." It won't be the last time you have a setback. As long as you can talk things through, you'll both be okay. It is okay to be human ya know.

I have been meaning to ask about your meds too. Any changes there? Still say you should consult a psychiatrist for help in this area. Sleep meds are a good thing to ask about too. If you're not getting enough quality sleep, how do you think your coping skills are going to be?

I gotta get to bed. Check in with ya'll tomorrow. Good night and God bless,

KJ

Here is another good thread for you to read to help understand your BW. Pain of Bs by Bob Pure

i bumped the letter for you to read.....read it. let me know what you think about it.....

Its a great letter, the puzzle analogy is dead on, thanks Nikko. What did you think of it Iam? Did it help you understand your W perspective a bit more?

Blessings,
Glad

sorry,

if you truely want recovery, which i believe you do.....then you are going to have to deal with this. you are going to have to answer any and all of her question with honesty. we will work with her on what she truely wants to know and not know. think of it this way...your affair caused a big gaping wound.....with holding the truth is causing that wound to fester and infect.....if your wife really had this gaping wound would you allow her to pick at it and guess how to treat it, or would you get her to an ER and let the wound be exised and cleaned....the truth will exise the wound...the continued effort to answer anything will get rid of the following infection....do it in one foul swoop like the ER would and get it over with. will it hurt....yes but it will be done with and the healing will come. will she pick at it occasionally...yes, we all do. but it will heal.

it isnt the honesty that will hurt her...it is the witholding of it. your affair caused the hurt....the truth and WILLINGNESS TO GIVE THE TRUTH IS WHAT IS GOING TO HEAL HER.

IASS, (I'm gonna address you like this every time now, man I crack myself up!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Where you at fella? Got lots of posts to catch up on here. Well, maybe you're busy reading and meeting EN's, hope so.

Hope to hear from you soon,

KJ

bump^^^^^

I have to second what nikko said. I've been going through something similar with my wife and it would be so much easier to trust her if she would just tell me the truth.

Ha,Ha,Ha I am glad you find that amusing!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I am officially changing my name to "youaresosorry" Thats right..."your a [censored]" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> HA HA HA...Now that is more like it!

Alright I want to apologize for going missing for the last two days. Last time I was on here I believe I posted about my wife wanting a divorce. Well I have been very busy since then. I been working and I had my mens support group to attend last night. I could have dropped a few lines yesterday afternoon but instead of taking time to write on here I took the time to write my wife a long e-mail. I felt with all that has happened these last few days I had to kick my commitment to my wife in over drive. I have been working really hard these last three day to really be there for her when she needs me. I actually asked her if she would mind if I went on here tonight to let everyone know how I am .
Well I guess I am doing fine. I am fighting for my marriage. I am ready to get down and dirty to save my marriage. I put white roses on her pillow this morning and told here I want to make her mornings something to look forward to. I want to give her a suprise every morning so when she wakes up she will be thinking about what her surprise is gonna be ,instead of thinking about me laying next to the OW. She really liked the flowers. For tomorrow morning I took a picture that we had taken as teen agers while we were down at the shore, Its a picture from one of those pictures booths that give you a 5 picture strip , Well today I took it and had it blown up to a 5/7 and and had the color change to a brown type of color so it looks old fashion and across the top in red I have "Love you 4 Life..." She is gonna love it.
Okay about me being honest and telling my wife the whole truth about the A. She really doesn't want to know everything. But everytime she gets down or upset she gets in her I want to know everything mood and that is not the time I am willing to open up to her. I have been taking your advice Nikko...Today I opened up to her about the A with OW . I told her alot of stuff I didn't open up to her about the pittsburgh A. Let me give you a quick tale of my A: I went on a business trip to new york for a night. I met OW at a club and had a one night stand(alcohol induced). I met her the next day and decided to break it off with her and tell her that she shouldn't ever call me because I had a girlfriend. I didn't tell her I was married , I thought she would freak out and feel used and tell my wife about the night we had and ruin my marriage. About two week later I received an e-mail at my job from OW. I really wasn't excited to hear from her , I was in shock that she contacted me at work and now my wife was gonna find out about our one night stand. So I e-mail her back to find out how she got my e-mail address for my job. She wouldn't tell me at first. To make this short these little comments and replies went on and eventually let to full e-mail contact. The e-mail then led to phone calls and e-mails. I had to attend another business seminar in Pittsburgh in which the OW and I met up for the second time except this time it was for the weekend. It was during this meeting that I came clean to the OW and told her that I was married and had children. She cried and asked why I lied to her. I told her that I was gonna get another room and even offered to pay her plane ticket back home to California. She said that wouldn't be necessary. We could just make the best of the time and I could show her what Pennsylvania was like and Then we talked for a while about my lies and why I didn't just tell her. She said she was happy I was honest with her and really valued my honesty. Well we spent the weekend together and "hook up" about four times. (This is what upsets me the most because I was not intoxicated like NY <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ) Anyways I got back home from Pittsburgh and went on with my married life and still keeping contact with OW. She said she didn't want to lose my friendship because I was one of the greatest guys she had ever met.(maybe not those exact words) . Well I then started being mean to my wife. I was intentionally trying to hurt her and make her hate me. I wanted her to leave me. I felt guilty about what I had done but couldn't stop talking with the OW and couldn't bare to tell my wife the truth. I went as far as to tell her that I fell out of love with her. Two week after Pittsburgh my wife found an e-mail and found out about the affair in NY. She kicked me out of the house and we spent Thanksgiving apart. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> . Well 3 days later she said she wanted to talk to me and hear about how and why it happened. I was surprised she even wanted to hear my side of the story. I thought she would never talk to me again . So my selfishness took over and I didn't tell her about pittsburgh and sugar coated the whole NY A and said what I had to say for my wife to take me back. Well she did. we went to counseling for the A but I never told anyone about Pittsburgh. One day my wife even called the OW and confronted her. My wife asked OW if we ever met other than NY and OW said no so I felt the secret was mines to keep since OW wasn't gonna confess it I sure as ****** wasn't gonna sign my divorce papers by confessing it. Well of course that was stupid. My W eventually did enough digging and found out for her own(D-DAY2 in her opinion). She was crushed. I felt like crap. I couldn't live with what I did and how I lieD and deceived her, I wasn't admitted into the hospital for 4 dayS because I became suicidal because I didn't want to live with what I did to her and my family. I couldn't live with my self. I hated myself. I didn't deserve to live the life God blessed me with. My own children weren't even wort living for because I was ashamed to be their dad. Well I got out of the hospital on a Thursday my wife was set to divorce me on Friday until she woke up the Saturday with a revelation from god that our family needed to stay together and she was to do what ever she had to to keep it together. So that morning she asked me to come over to the house because she needed to talk to me. I thought for sure it was to confirm that she was going to divorce me. It was just the opposite, she said she loved me and she didn't want to divorce me. She said she wanted to keep our family together and she wanted me to move back home so we can start working on our marriage, She also wasn't gonna ask me any more questions about the A. It really didn't matter anymore, all that mattered was keeping our family together.
So that is a quick version of my A without all the unnecessary details of what the OW and I did and detailed stuff like that. My wife is afraid that I am still keeping stuff from her. She thinks the OW is here in Pennsylvania or planning to move here for me. It is so far from the truth but I kept so much from her before she is paranoid and I totally understand her. Well I better get going I need to go spend some time with my W now. I am not the fastest typer so to type all this takes me pretty long but I know it had to be done and I didn't want Nikko showing up at my house and knocking on my door asking me for my story about the A <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well I will try to touch back with you all tomorrow. Thanks for all your prayers and support.

****KJ thanks for checking up on me
****Nikko THANK YOU for not bowing out ...I need you...sorry for being so close minded. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey good job last few days - this is good.

One thing - you do seem to have changed the words you use to describe your behaviour - that will change how you feel about it and help you a lot. You will cease to feel attacked when your wife has a bad time and suffers " rebound pain" - what you call her "mean mode". There is another language change suggestion for you.

I suggested it to her - thsat is how I know how well you have been doing - maybe you can coach my husband - he is just coming out of the fog completely - doing nice stuff is not his thing - he expects me to tell him what to do, then he doesn't do it.

I found this board in 02 I think, joined - well you can see when I joined - we have had a long journey, but if we can make it - anyone can make it - and if he can overcome his emotional sitch (nothing to do with me) then you can overcome anything that seems impossible.

Your wife feeling pain and it overcoming her good mood, is not LBing on you, unless she is dishonest and doesn't tell you it is becauee of "pain rebound". Just give her a hug and tell her it will get better, offer her some honesty - she will refuse - as you are being contrite - see how it helps things along.

SP

you just took one of the biggest steps towards reovery....congratulations.

now the next step is to continue....what i mean by that is continue to be honest with her.(and yourself) right now she is in lock down mode and feels like she is the only one who can protect herself. she gave you that job once and look what happened.(this is what she is probably feeling and why she is asking certain things) with the truth she can protect herself...without it she is vulnerable. if you want the job back, and i believe you do....:)....then continue to answer her lovingly and honestly and she will eventually realize that you are more concerned with her and her well being than your own comfort.

did you read joseph's letter yet? if not read it. we will help her with her questions if she will let us....but there are gonna be some details she is gonna want to know that you havent told her yet....nature of the best im afraid. your willingness to answer is the key to moving foward.....

again, congratulations. and who told you ive threatened to come to a few houses and open a can of whoop-a$$!!!!!lol

oh and ps........are YOU ready to figure out the "why" yet......that is another huge gift you can give her and yourself.....cause if you can figure out the why....then you can make a plan to never let it happen again. a plan that will make HER feel safe.

Ya know that is good advice. I am the recipient of her "rebound pain" and it is hard not to feel attacked. I am not exaggerating when I say she vents and makes me feel stupid every chance she gets! I feel so good about what I have been doing for her and our marriage and it seems like she gets a pleasure out of shooting me down. I told her the other day during one of our open discussions that i feel like I am working over time to rebuild this marriage and she is just sitting there watching me work and every time I turn around she is destroying and ruining everything I am trying to build. I am o-kay with that because I love what I am doing and I want too. But it takes two to build a marriage and every time she knocks down what I just built It makes me wonder if she even wants this thing to build up again. I told her that I don't expect her to be excited about building this marriage because I know she is going thur a lot of pain and hurting right now but I ask here if she is just gonna sit there and watch me work than do just that ...sit there and let me work ...don't knock down or destroy what I am trying to do to help her and ultimately our marriage. She understood and said that she thinks she does these things because she feel powerless, She is not in the mood to help me build but she feels useless doing nothing so it gives her a feeling of power to know she can do those things . I told her I understand what she means but she has to realize that it is not getting us any closer to where we are trying to go if she continues with that attitude. I then asked her to let me do all the work right now. I wanted her to give me permission to do all the work while she sits and when she is ready I will be glad to have the help. I felt as though if I asked her and she gave me permission it would make her feel like she is in control and has some power and say. She would feel like a supervisor as I work over time to build this marriage back up. Make sense? Any other thoughts or ideas?

not yet ...I did copy and paste it to my computer so I can read it any time. I will definitely read that today!

Please do so...because I think she really needs help with that.

This is where I have problems...She asks questions like did OW do "this" or did you do "that" when you were having sex with OW? I really don't think she needs to know those detailed types of questions and when I don't answer them she says "well I will just assume you did...you so disgusting" . I don't like to pick and choose which questions are o-kay to answer because I know it's not really my decision, it's hers. But when I do pick and choose I don't answer too many because I don't want to get set up in a position where she will realize every question I don't answer is something detailed/disgusting that is gonna hurt her. So even if the answer to a question is a positive answer I don't answer it. Know what I mean? I wish her questions were relevant questions that were actually gonna help her move forward and not just give her something her to remember the A with. Some of her questions are set up questions too... for example she asked me if in NY I thought of her when I was laying next to the OW. If I answer yes she flips and says how the heck can you lay next to another women and think of me!! If I answer no she then flips and says how could you have sex with another women and not think of me and our last 8 years!!!!! So you see I am dead either way so I do what I normally do I just don't answer the questions. Please help me with this. Help me understand what I need to do or what I shouldn't be doing. Maybe it is her who need the help choosing questions to be asked ...either way help!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />