Iam, that is so wrong IMHO. As a BS, I know that questions will pop into your head for a long, long time to come and YOU as the WS should be prepared to answer them honestly and humbly. You just set your W up to stuff her feelings and that is NOT healthy. You can put a time limit on how OFTEN and WHEN she can ask questions so your M can grow at the same time, but do NOT put a time limit on how far into the future she can ask questions. You, again, are putting YOUR feelings ahead of your BW.

KJ--i dont know where you got the idea i took anything sarcastically...i didnt say that....i answered your post....what did i say wrong? i stated you took something out of context....then explained again what i meant...

what exactly do i do wrong that gets your hackles up? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I guess I took what was said out of context. I took KJs "POJA" and nikkos "time frame" and put them together and had my wife make a POJA for a one week time frame for questions. Sorry ...there I go thinking like a "FWS" again (selfish and looking for the short cut). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />






Thank you for all your sincere opinions. I also want to THANK YOU for your approach toward what I did by posting heart felt criticism . I appreciate the fact the none of you tried to make me feel stupid or look like an idiot. Even though I now see I was stupid for my approach toward the time line and I am an idiot for thinking it was a good idea. I will talk again with my wife about that whole situation of the time frame because she agreed and also felt it (question time frame) was necessary, but that was probably just her being humble and accepting what ever I said for me to be honest and open. I see that now. I want her to know I will be open and honest because I love her and I want to help...not because she agreed to a time frame. Thanks guys for giving me a good smack in the head , thats what I needed ...just wasn't expecting to wake up to it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

well in the spirit of keeping things going in a positive direction.....good morning, here's a cup of coffee....its a wonderful day! LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

that is a much better good morning....lol. but it is great that you are still working on this and we havent scared you...lol

listen....let the label of stupid go...your not stupid and what you did wasnt stupid...actually it was right on par....every ws wants the quick fix...heck even us bs's wish there was a magic pill.....lol. unfortunately we all learn the hard way there isnt...we are just trying to stop you from making the same hurtful mistakes we have all made. i didnt just wake up and know this stuff...i learned it step by step with the guidance of these good people also. it is great that you are willing to learn...dont lose sight of that.

now what i meant earlier is you are focusing 100% on her...while that is admirable and feels like absolute necessity....you also have to start unraveling your stuff also. i keep trying to get you to do that.....it is a huge step and maybe you arent ready...its ok to say..."nikko im not ready to go there'...but you have a habit of glossing over what is asked, AND i get the impression you dont want to adress(which is again ok)...but say something.lol facing what you did and why is the hardest part...well maybe next in line to facing her pain....but still way up there....but the sooner we do this...get to the answers...the sooner you and she can get a plan in place for her protection. her feeling protected is what is gonna get her to begin to trust again. i want you to work on you as much as you work on her....

when asked, my husbands answer was...."just trust me, i will never do this again after going through this." well i thought he allready promised me to NOT DO THIS when we married....so what was different now. words mean nothing...your actions and willingness is key...

I did read the letter by the way. I didn't realize that was the letter you were talking about. I read that letter months ago. My wife sent it to me when we were separated and I told her I had already read that weeks before she even read or found it. I told her the day I read that letter I was gonna open up to her that evening and I felt real good about doing it but things took a turn because when I got home from work that evening she started throwing thing I had told her before in my face and was yelling and venting. So my reaction to that was there was no way I was gonna open up and give her more ammo to load her gun to shoot at me. Like I sad , that was weeks ago and a lot has changed since then and I do understand what the letter is telling me my wife needs and I am trying to follow thru on what is needed to be done. Thanks for the suggestion of the letter though.

im gonna tell you something....but lets keep it between us....lol. what she is going through truely isnt the anger stage of grieving....yet. when we as the bs's finally start to heal and get comfortable in our marriages...when things are going well for awhile....usually around i think the 8 month mark of recovery.....BAM!!! THE ANGER HITS LIKE A TON OF BRICKS!!!LOL it is only when we truely become comfortable your staying we feel safe enough to unleash the true anger. you've got a ways to go to get there....and i know you will be ready when it comes....your willingness to listen and learn will prepare you....but this isnt her anger stage yet....;)

Sorry I don't drink coffee...take it back and bring me a Protein shake <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



My wife asked me yesterday what is the biggest lesson I have learned thru this whole mess. My response was I need to protect my weaknesses. I shouldn't let anyone other than my wife make deposits into my love bank. Affection is #1 on my EN list and I let the OW make deposits . My first mistake. Honesty/openness are #2. Sexually fulfillment is #3 and once again I let OW make deposit. My account is for my wife only! At no time should I ever let any one other than her make or even attempt to make deposits.
I think the "why" for the A was I needed my love bank filled and I was gonna fill it myself since my wife wasn't. Thats where my selfishness comes into play. I also need to work on my communication. I didn't ask my wife to make the deposits so how was she to know it was low. I didn't want to ask I felt she should know or want to make the deposits so when someone else came along and made the deposits with out me asking or telling I fell right into it and the out come was an A. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> That is the start to your "why" question...

Thanks for the warning...I better start getting my armor on! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

thats a good start...but you need to go deeper.....

i figured admiration or affection was #1....that was why i was leary of you asking for us to give that to you earlier in this post. that was why i wanted you to explore why you were looking for that from us...that is her job, your wifes. i meant no disrespect earlier and hopefully now you understand better why i was leary.....

honesty and openess...well if that is #2 for you....then you know you have to toss that agreement out.lol how is she supposed to be honest and open with that agreement in place? lol the questions will diminish, i promise....but it takes time and patience. i cant tell you i know how it feels...i can tell you i can imagine how it feels....and i am sorry that itis painful for you. having this brought up daily must suck....but you have to remember that five minutes dont go by that her mind isnt probably torturing her with thoughts of this. it is sucky all around....it will get better.....

Nikko,

You got me, this has never happened before. I guess I'll just keep my mouth shut. You make excellent points in your posts, but for some reason, when you address only me, I feel like I'm not worthy because I'm a FWW. Most likely just my paranoid personality disorder kicking in. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Take care,

KJ

ok---im confused...you asked me about that part of my post, to clarify....i answer....again to clarify....you say i "apparently" think you meant it sarcastic, and i also insinuated. lol

KJ....re-read your own posts to me....they are the ones that seem to be filled with judgement. i never said you were sarcastic or meant anything sarcastic....i also dont insinuate....remember the story about me being the biggest bit*h on earth and scortching the earth in my path???does that sound like someone who would insinuate anything or someone who would come right out and get straight up in your face???LOL

i dont want you to shut up.....and the only time i address "only" you is when you call me out on something. you seem to not like my posting style so i have not specifically posted to you except for that. i know you didnt like me and others disagreeing with your suggestion to them on a timeframe....do you also understand better why??? or do you still believe if i have a question, even 5 yrs later i should sit and just shut up and NOT ask? or do you understand this is all building a forever future of honesty and openess and trust....three things i will never live without again. i pray you realize what a gift for your husband this would be also.....anyway,

i have absolutely NOTHING against you for being a fww...some of my bestest friends here are fww's. i love them dearly...some i have watched come here from the start and go through the anguish you are going through. ive seen some of them act like petulant children having a tantrum...lol...i still love em all and would do almost anything for them. i hold no anamosity because of a label.....that isnt me. i hope you learn that about me....

Maybe you missed this one from me to Sorry:



So, as you see, I do get this part. Thanks for your open and honest posts. See you around,

KJ

I am so freakin angry right now!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I don't even want to be on this freakin site right now.. I am just so angry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I am just so sick of everything my wife does being justified because she is the victim!!!!!! Why is it every time she falls it is my fault!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
1)SHE tells me to come back home ...no more questions. I come back home and don't answer questions I am the bad guy. I need to answer her questions. Fine I answered them!!!
2)She call me at home to vent and I take the phone off the hook, she then trespasses into my brothers e-mail account and finds the letters I wrote to OW, (you know the ones she threw away and deleted so she wouldn't read them anymore)leaves them on my cell phone and gets so mad from reading them she wants to divorce me. Once again I am the bad guy it is my fault she read them again because I was not there for her when she wanted to vent. Fine I start being there for her every time she vents
3)I open up to her about affair and she tells me thank you for opening up and for being honest, "don't worry you will not have to hear anything more about this discussion I said how I felt and thats that". Next day she starts complaining about what I told her and I respond with I thought you said I wouldn't have to hear bout this again ...she storms out and calls me undependable. Once again I am the bad guy
4)today she went on line and searched to find the OW picture. I get angry and say how does that help the marriage. She says she feel good and it helped bring her closure. I tell her that I find that hard to believe and I was upset with her for taking time to do that. Well when I get home she start with ..."She is prettier than me" "She has a better body than me" . I reply with "wow...thats some closure". I know it wasn't the best thing to say but to be honest I don't really care. She once again put her screw up on me by saying she was o-kay after looking at OW but when I got upset with her it made her upset and thats why she is down. baloney!!!! She is down because she just looked at the face of the OW!!! I am so sick of her falls being put on me!!!!! I didn't make her look up those e-mails the other day ...I didn't make her look up the OW picture!!!!! I am doing everything I can to help her get thru this and she wants to do stupid stuff and put it on me..."mr.undependable"...whatever!!!!! Now I can't go on her e-mail account ! I say why she says because I said so. I then say why , are you keeping a secret. She says no . I finally figured out why , She copied the OW picture and want to send it to her friend!!!!! Where on MB is tha t helping the recovery. Let me guess ...I should just understand what she is going thru and deal with it because I had the A right!!!!!!! No...I am so sick of hearing that!!!!!!! She is a big girl, she knows right from wrong!!! I seem to have to face up to all that I have done wrong with the A and everything that followed and she get immunity to do what every she wants even if it's totally wrong and it will be o-kay because she is hurting or she is the victim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't even know why I am trying. I am so stressed and exhausted trying to be there for her, why so she can do stupid stuff and put the hurt that comes from her actions on me ....NO!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Open up to her they tell me, tell her what she wants to know It will help her recover...yeah right!!!! Why the heck should I bother to open up if I take one step forward and she takes one step back. Opening up was a huge step for me and then she goes and does this. Its pointless. The fact is it really does not matter what I do , if she wants to work on this marriage we will , if she doesn't we won't ...if she wants a divorce , we will ...if she doesn't , we wont. I don't even know why I bother. I can do everything right and the second she does something stupid it will fall on me one way or another....and I am getting sick and tired of taking the blame for her falls!!!!!This is supposed to be a recovery. She sets herself up to fall by going out of her way to get deleted e-mails from OW and going out of her way to get Picture of OW!!!! I am just so sick of taking the blame for her actions......!!!!!!!!!!

just so you know don't bother responding if you are going to feed me some "this is a process crap" or "I should continue doing my part if I want the marriage to work" I had enough of that !!!! Either she step up to the plate and take responsibility for her self inflicted wounds and stop blaming everything on me because I am not hurting her anymore she is hurting herself and if that continues I am not gonna sit her and take the blame for her current actions. Right now I am ready to welcome a divorce because I am so sick of what her current actions are doing to our recovery and our children. They had to witness yet another fight and wake up out of bed to loud voices because mommy not daddy is hurting herself and I am not supposed to be upset. I am suppose to play Mr nice guy and not tell her she is wrong for some of the things she is doing. I always have to her about my faults during recovery but I am not aloud to tell her about hers because I am the one who had the affair so I can't say nothing well you know what thats exactly what I will do say nothing!! Hope she got "all her answers". o-well if she didn't she can go online and get them like she does everything else because this open heart is officially closed!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

IamSo, here's my 0.2c for what it's worth.

Quote:

I am so freakin angry right now!!! I don't even want to be on this freakin site right now.. I am just so angry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am just so sick of everything my wife does being justified because she is the victim!!!!!! Why is it every time she falls it is my fault!!!!!!!!!

End Quote

She is the victim. You will never be the victim. She is obsessing right now about something she can't understand.

Quote:
1)SHE tells me to come back home ...no more questions. I come back home and don't answer questions I am the bad guy. I need to answer her questions. Fine I answered them!!!

End Quote

Yes, you should answer all questions. BUT.... if she doesn't make it safe for you to do this you will clam up. Her emotions are everywhere but I agree it must be safe for you to tell the truth.

Quote:

2)She call me at home to vent and I take the phone off the hook, she then trespasses into my brothers e-mail account and finds the letters I wrote to OW, (you know the ones she threw away and deleted so she wouldn't read them anymore)leaves them on my cell phone and gets so mad from reading them she wants to divorce me. Once again I am the bad guy it is my fault she read them again because I was not there for her when she wanted to vent. Fine I start being there for her every time she vents

End Quote

She's human, she's 28, she NEEDS to see these things. It's part of making sense of it all. We fought around and around and around all of this for days on end. We talked all night, we talked all day.

Quote:
3)I open up to her about affair and she tells me thank you for opening up and for being honest, "don't worry you will not have to hear anything more about this discussion I said how I felt and thats that". Next day she starts complaining about what I told her and I respond with I thought you said I wouldn't have to hear bout this again ...she storms out and calls me undependable. Once again I am the bad guy

End Quote

Obviously, after sleeping on all your information it just got too much too bear. Honestly, Iamso, I wonder sometimes if you know ANYTHING about women. DO NOT RESPOND WITH "I thought you said.....". She is entitled to get this out. Interestingly, if she was doing a good Plan A, this wouldn't be happening.

Quote:
4)today she went on line and searched to find the OW picture. I get angry and say how does that help the marriage. She says she feel good and it helped bring her closure. I tell her that I find that hard to believe and I was upset with her for taking time to do that. Well when I get home she start with ..."She is prettier than me" "She has a better body than me" . I reply with "wow...thats some closure". I know it wasn't the best thing to say but to be honest I don't really care. She once again put her screw up on me by saying she was o-kay after looking at OW but when I got upset with her it made her upset and thats why she is down. baloney!!!! She is down because she just looked at the face of the OW!!!
End Quote

Again, she's human. It's a natural, completely natural thing to want to do.

You are both still not listening.

I just don't know how to help you.

This marriage is going to collapse because you are both too immature to be adults. It's a shame.

i'll hold off with my response....good post kiwi. oh and just so you know...i have been calling your wife on everything dumb i think she is doing. however we all make the same mistakes sometimes....

and if your recovery is one step foward...one step back.....most of us would have killed for that...for us it was one step foward...three steps back!!

done with the hissy fit yet????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Nikko, you talkin' to me or sorry?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

haha Just couldn't pass that one up!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

KJ

Wow.

I hurt because you are in such pain right now, but I don't want to deliver a pity party to you either. I know once during our recovery, I was feeling a lot of pain (for different reasons than yours), and I asked SH if there would be anything wrong with taking a week off of working on the recovery of our M. He said there wasn't anything wrong with doing this, as long as we both agreed, that after a week (no longer) we would come back to focus on the recovery of our M. This is when we went to the Dominican Republic for a week. It was week 3 of our recovery, I was still so thick in the fog it was unreal, not to mention withdrawl. But my H agreed to just be with me, to just be ourselves, enjoy each other, for one week. Know what happened? Because we were in a different environment, no kids, no family, no internet, no work, no emails, no t/c's, we were able to relax, and focus on each other. It was nothing short of miraculous, I honestly believe that week saved our M. We eventually did start talking about recovery issues, but only because it felt good, it felt safe. If I thought our conversations were getting too in-depth, we'd stop talking. I know my H had difficulty restraining his questions during this week, but he did it, and because he did this, I was eventually able to answer any and all of his questions truthfully, honestly, openly.

At first, I rejected the idea of leaving my kids for a week, I'd never left them for more than one night before. My H's mom came up to stay with them. We worked out all the details in order to take this trip. We went into debt to take this trip. We could have made a million excuses not to take this trip. But we took the trip, and the results are still benefitting us today.

This recommendation may sound over-the-top to you at first, but please give it some consideration. if you can't go someplace like the Dominican (although I highly recommend it!), go at least to another town where you know you won't run into anyone you know, and you know you could have some fun together. Stay at least 3-4 nights, but I'd recommend a week if ya could swing it.

Think it over fella. Like I said, it saved our M, it saved my soul.

God bless,

KJ

Yes , I am done <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I first off want to apologize to all FBS/BS for my last post

I was just so angry with my wife. I just get so upset and feel like I am wasting my time with trying to come up with surprises or ways to help her get thru and when things start getting better she always seems to go out of her way to find something to be hurt about. I didn't hurt her last night ...she hurt herself. Thats whats gets me so angry and I am not an angry type of person. I hardly ever get angry. But I didn't hold a gun to her and make her do an Internet search for the OW picture . I Didn't make her go find e-mails(that we got rid of) from the OW that day she was down. We burned all the e-mail together and it was supposed to be over but then she gets the crazy idea to search my brothers account because when we were separated she sent them all there to make me mad. So she remembered sending them there so she once again went out of her way to find them and read them again. She knows doing what she does isn't right but she thinks it's justified because she is the BS. Thats what upsets me. I know she is the victim and I know I am the one who put her in this maze she has to find her way thru BUT when you get to a dead end in a maze you find your way out you don't knowing go back to the dead end!(things we have already worked thru and moved on from) Any ways I was still angry this morning. I hate being angry. It's no fun <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />. This morning when we woke up she said she was having a bad morning and I responded with," well I bet it feels a lot better to have a face to put with you bad mornings now". I know...I know bad move on me. But I was still angry and I was not in the mood to try to make her feel good so she can just go out and do something stupid to bring herself back down. I then left to go take my daughters to get breakfast and as I was leaving I felt Gods grace come over me. I released all my anger and went back in the house and told my wife that I am done...she said done with what...I said done being angry! I told her it's stupid and a waste of time to walk around life angry. There is more to life and more to our marriage than being angry. I hugged her and told her I was sorry for my part in our down fall yesterday. I love her and told her I am back and I am ready to get back on this damn roller coaster ride!!

I still haven't receive any humbleness or apologize for he part and harsh words she said to be but once again I guess she doesn't have to because she is the victim of an A, victim or not it sure would be nice, once in a while to know she is sorry for her actions <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

And SHE didn't hold a gun to YOUR head to have an A. Iam, you are just NOT getting it. This is NOT about surprises for your W, this is about YOU proving yourself to be trustworthy. You two need some serious help. Please call the Harleys and set up some counseling.