Well, guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this point, but I'm okay with that.

Take care,

KJ

I am the BS. I am going over this with my FWW right now. This may help you out. I want all the details but not the gorry details.

Who bought the condoms? Might not seem like a good question but I would think she is seeing at what point did you make the decesion to have the A. In other words did you stop buy some condoms then continue on or did she have condoms there already. Maybe not her reason but she wants to know so why not tell her. I know some of my questions seemed crazy to her but I wanted to know.

Now being smacked in the face hurts a lot. Imagine being smacked in the face today knowing that you will be smacked in the face later. If you are honest with her and answer her questions at some point she will feel comfortable knowing that she will not be smacked in the face with this again. BTW I was smacked in the face for over 2 years. Do not do this to her if you love her and you want it to work.

With that being said be careful about the gorry details as well. Details are like a movie every once in a while that scene will play through your head. There is nothing productive with having the gory details run through her head. I promised my FWW that I did not want to know what happened in the bed. Every thing else I do want to know. I have my reasons and I am sure she has hers.

Sorry [censored],

I guess others disagree with what I recommended earlier, so go forth with caution and ultimately, do what feels right for you and your wife.

I would, however, still encourage you to have the "timeline" discussion with her. That certainly won't hurt matters, and would show her you're willing to discuss the A at least to some degree.

Hissy fit?! You ain't seen nothin' yet darlin'!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

KJ

Where is the letter? I just read the bob pure thread that was given to me a few days ago. I thought that was what you were talking about but I don't think it was ...was it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Dear two,

The answer to your question is a complicated one because it is different for every WS at different times in their recovery. I can only give you my perspective on it (how it's been for me).

Yes, I thought it was love, true love, the only time in my life I felt I was truely in love with another person. I was willing to give up my family for this man. If you knew me and how I feel about my kids, you would fall over dead hearing that from me. I may not have been "in love" with my H, but to think of leaving my kids?! Ultimately, that's why I stayed, solely because of them. It's been over 2 months, I'm no longer staying just for them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As far as falling "in love" with someone who is willing to destroy a person, their husband, and their kids.... well, what did I just say above? I was willing to do the same thing!! Why would I judge the OM harshly if we were in the same boat? See what I mean?

One thing I know for certain. Despite how she may refer to it still as love, she's chosen you. If you weren't #1 to her, she'd have gone away with OM. She just doesn't realize yet that you are #1 to her. She will, give her time, 5 months is nothing for many FWS's to still be in withdrawl and/or "fog-thinking".

Hang in there, and remember, she's chosen YOU!!

KJ

Is my name "Dear two"...NO! So take this business else where! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />


















Relax...MBs I am only kidding <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />. You have to admit ,I got ya pretty good didn't I ?!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I heard you wanted to know what MB thought about you actualy telling your wife the truth - as if you had to ask - but read on.... from my post to your wife's thread ....

I spoke to Dr H today - asked him questions about me changing my response to things that are sensitive to me and bother me - he said I shouldn't try to change - those things and happenings were not of my making and if my husband wanted them to stop he should change his job and we should move to another town. I kept telling him how at last he had got it - I think, and Dr. H said then, "it will be two years before you are healed from the time he stopped the hurtful behaviour". EA stopped and radical honesty etc etc. I do have the radical honesty now, but he never ever did any kind of NC letter to anyone.

So your husband's answer right from Dr. H's own mouth is to do what his books say, radical honesty - nothing less and consistent radical honesty - no holds barred about you making changes to try to desensitize yourself - if it is true for me 4 years in - it is true for you right now at the beginning.

I just wanted tips on how to desensitize myself to stuff that stops me enjoying activities I trusted him for us to do together, that have, as his wife said - associations from the past. I was surprised when he went all radical on me and said "Move to another town - you don't need to change. You will be reminded of it all the time, if you want to feel better you have to move, it is what I suggest all the time now". In essence, I will not feel better and not expected to until two years from when FWH made all the changes HE needed to help us heal.

He meant when he stopped the last EA, stopped blaming me for being upset - feeling it was some kind of attack and allowed me to feel my pain. When he consistently gave me radical honesty without any strings, promises or time limits. I should not be trying to change me to tolerate the pain he caused and it repercussions for FWH's comfort.

I was disappointed as I really believed if I could find a way to feel comfortable it would help us. On the good side he did say what I felt inside but didn't think was correct after so much time MB. I am normal and not over sensitive or over reacting - woohoo - now what to do?

SP

BSs have such a hard time understanding the "why" of an affair. At least, I do. So, we try to understand the "what". "What happened then? What happened next?" And if you're answering questions honestly, a couple of things will happen. THe BS will feel like they're in control of something for the first time in a long time. They're controlling the pace, the flow of the conversation, the amount of information they get. It's like eating. When she gets full at that sitting, she'll stop asking questions.

WS don't want to give the answers because they're ashamed, embarrased, hurt, you name it. Ain't nothin easy about the Q&A of an affair.

BS is also going to mentally compare him/herself to the OP sexually. And it won't matter how much the BS knows it's hardly ever just about the sex. BH are the worst at this. We already have performance anxiety. And we sit and ask questions like, "It he bigger than me? Does he last longer than me? What's his teqnique like? Better than mine?"

When the BS is asking these questions, their Taker is all over it making sure they don't get hurt again. Then the WS Taker steps in and says, "Wait just a minute here. This hurts and you you can kiss my big toe!"

Try to flip the coin, IASS, and see it from her side of things. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

i just bumped up josephs letter for you---its on a thread named....JOSEPH'S LETTER.....LOL. go find it and read it!!!!

she is chewing on the questions....if she still wants to know...tell her. dont ask why for right now...she is gonna have to find out what she needs and doesnt.

i have some questions for you...you say you met ow out at a club...where you there alone? did you allready have your ring off? where you looking.....?

that would be huge to me. and what the ****** where you doing in the club to begin with?lol

i also want you to think about what led you to be in that situation? how did you justify it to yourself to go out gettin drunk and dancing and clubbin without your wife....you need to start working on you and the reasons and why's and leave her to us to help her. keep meeting the needs and being supportive....but you have to stop second guessing her on what she needs. let us second guess her...lol

Geeze Sorry!! Honestly, you really had me going there ya jerk! Thanks for the laugh tho'!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

KJ

Nikko,

Just to clarify.... you aren't suggesting MBer's are gonna do EVERYTHING for sorry's wife, are you? I mean, it IS pretty important he be there helping his wife in any way he can, right? Just wanted to be clear about what you were suggesting here. Thanks.

Things are going pretty good..You guys would be proud of me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ... I answered every question she had today! I asked her that we don't touch the sex questions and we set a time limit on the question asking. I was hoping a 24 hour time frame <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> but we both agreed on one week. As of next wednesday she will not ask any more questions concerning the A. I must agree to answer all questions until then. That sounds like a fair deal, don't ya think?

Well I gotta go make some deposits into her love bank...Talk to you tomorrow!!!

No it is not a fair deal, did you read my post - I spoke to Dr. Willard Harley today - the doc who is the man behind all of this site - 90% success rate - honesty should have no limits set on it and any part of the A she wants to know about should be transparent - did you read the joseph letter?

Why do you have to be in control of what she is allowed to ask - why do you need an agreement to make you feel safe - you have had your time to feel safe - it is her time to feel safe and free to ask as she needs. The sooner you allow her the freedom from you getting special deals on what and when and how long - the sooner she will not need to ask any more and you will be off the hook, able to relax and concentrate only on rebuilding your M with her. Pressure her now for your own benefit and it will all blow up in your face, if the pressure of being nice to you gets too much, however "nicely" you think you are getting her to agree.

You are at the very beginning - not two years down the road and her healed.

You are doing so well - why the need for you to restrict her complete freedom to ask whatever, whenever.

You must remember that you have had your fun at her expense, now she has to try to make some sense of it in her own mind, not on your terms. You had the A on your terms - you lied about it on your terms - can you not see how doing things on your terms - might not have the best emotional effect on her.

Set her free and yourself along with her.

SP

ok kj...you pulled a fragmented part af a whole sentence out for that quote....what im trying to get him to do is focus on himself and the why's and stop second guessing what she needs. i didnt mean for him to sit back and do nothing....i think you know that. but he cannot...at this moment really try to educate her....she is gonna rebel from that.

your right...this deal sounds great!!!!!! for a ws.

this is not what was suggested to you. what was suggested was that you time the conversations. how long each honesty session would last...putting this in place is gonna be a train wreck. there are no shortcuts to healing and rebuilding....i am a stubborn person but come on....if there was an easier way, dont you think we ALL would have taken it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> this agreement benefits you and only you....she gets some questions answered short term....but do you wanna do this(recovery) short term or lifelong?

and did ya read the damn letter yet...im tired of bumping it up... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

so having that agreement in place....explain how honesty and OPENESS is gonna work in your marriage? or do you plan on skippping that emotional need.....i bet its one of her top needs....how ya gonna do that with a gag order placed on your wife????

and after doing all this wonderful work and finally getting happy....she all of a sudden has a question sometime down the road....and realizes she cannot talk to you about it or say anything. so she stews, builds up resentment for agreeing to this cause it was the only way she was gonna get some honesty....then she crashes....everything goes to ****** and your standing there wondering...WTF???? and you have no clue what just happened??? then what?

or she just flat out doesnt honor this agreement and you get frustrated and build resentment...how does that help??? you guys have to stop making these agreements...right now you have to exise the wound....not clean around the edges..

Nope, doesn't sound like a fair deal at all. There is NO way I'd have been out of questions after only a week. Particularly as most of my initial answers were "I don't know." It took much longer to digest the information I got and wonder some more.

Please don't ask this limitation of your wife. Do you want to heal your marriage all the way, or only a week's worth of healing?

Nikko,

Apparently you think I made that post sarcastically. Well, just goes to show how things can be misconstrued on this forum.

I honestly did not know what you were insinuating, that is why I asked for clarification. Enough said.


KJ

Sorry,

They're right. You can't ask this of your wife. Go back to GO, do not collect $200. Make her stay quiet and you'll go to jail, eternally.

Keep up the fight fella, you're doing great, just take the BS advice here, okay?!

KJ